also the fire department sense of the infrastructure clearly stated that it was not in any way or the plan in any way should not limit the authority of the fire department in this section. >> those charter sections are the general charter sections that create the fire department? >> i believe so i'll have the fire department present when they talk about their portion. >> so this chart shows some of the major milestones for this project and as you can see starting with 2010 the general infrastructure plan and we continue to work on this this year to continue to work on this massive project between now and

the year 20039. the infrastructure network must be engineers to meet the needs and safety of the, you know, most yours of the public right-of-way you such as pedestrians and people with disabled and bicyclists and traffic unloading and this is for persons with disabled and the utilities and emergency phases given to obstruct and pga lanes and parking and other factors. this slide here was referred by my staff is shows how a truck with a wheel base of 40 feet can make the turn of 60 or 34 feet

into a street that or 26 feet. next i'd like to i'm going to turn it over to ken lombardy from the fire department >> actually before we go to the fire department i have other questions. so you sent a letter i sent is a letter to the p u expressing concerns about the changes of the street clearance from to 20 to 26 feet and you sent me a letter back i have a few statements with questions. what is the anytime street clearance in san francisco? under our codes? the minimum street clearance is 26 feet and we'll access 20 feet

based on a case by case basis after we understand all you know the perimeters involved like vertical cleaners and obstructions all those. >> so you're saying my understanding is our fire code is 80 feet is our minimum street clearance. >> it maybe acceptable under certain conditions. >> the fire code says the fire apparatus street shall have an unobstructed width of not less than 20 feet the state fire code says we're adapted you're not saying our fire code provides the 26 code clearance. >> not 20 feet maybe acceptable

based on conditions such as no history of obstructions within that 20 feet. >> so you're saying the fire code we have provides 26 feet as the minimum clearance. >> that's my understanding. >> okay. >> but as i said and i'll repeat 20 feet maybe approved subject to the review of all the conditions skoournd the street screen. >> i think that's inaccurate 20 feet is correct in san francisco. so there is also something called an appendix d to the fire code that provides for 26 feet are you familiar >> i'd like to refer this question to the experts if the

fire department. >> you signed the letter you sent the letter. >> yes. that letter was in collaboration with the fire department. >> i'll ask the fire department when they come up about that. go ahead >> i would i'm going to turn it over to the fire department ken lombardy to continue this. >> thank you. good afternoon, supervisors supervisors would you like clarification on that i have the fire marshall here >> absolutely. >> hello supervisor wiener and supervisors arrest title 19 is the state law that gives the fire department their authority over many of the fire department operations does specifically

state the time is that 20, however, we is the center fire department with our approval have approved the san francisco fire code and in that fire code we've adapted portions that gives us the authority to go beyond the 20 feet when net for fire operations. i can get you the exact section i didn't bring it to the podium >> i appreciate that it soolz you're saying the opposition it is 20 feet but you can go wider. >> the dpw representative that question should have been directed to myself. >> i asked him because he signed the letter. there's the appendix d to the

state fire code that talks about 26 feet for the new subdivisions >> i'd like to have to refer back but for aerial operations yes. >> on appendix d this was sited in the letter requiring the 26 feet the appendix d actually states it only applies for the local jurisdiction has adapted it san francisco has never adapted the appendix. >> that's correct the letter or response back, you know, wasn't directed through the fire department for a specific code compliance so the way i explained it to you, we get our power through title 19 and it states that 20 feet is the anytime and the board of supervisors has adapted the san francisco fire code recently and

in that san francisco fire code we're given the authority to use the fire code not adopted which give us the authority to widened the streets for fire grounded operations. >> did the fire department every tell me the developers that 26 feet is the time clearance. >> we have when we're asked, however, we've been asked recently the infrastructure maps for the candle stick point last round in october or september or 2013? and from my recognition that's itself fritter we've gotten something more form than a general plan with 72 cross sections of feet to where do

they go and where are the buildings and building entrances that sort of thing and how tall >> how are the building being constructed. >> we have a handout that the fire department has given to one develop 501 street widths the san francisco fire code requires the time of 26 feet for new developments where the developments are greater than 35 feet so since we've never adapted the feet why is the fire department telling people it's required. since it's not been electively adapted >> right so again with we go back to the international fire code where we get our authority through section - hold on a second - arrest 503.2.2 the

authority the fire code officials shall require the access where it's inaccurate for fire or rescue operations. so the fact we're using appendix d to further clarify and help with our requirements for the authority i think is better because it is a standard and guideline that's widely known in the international fire code >> so it's the fire departments position even though san francisco has never adapted the appendix the fire department has the power to impose it. >> no we're enclosing the authority to use whatever we need to justify the increased width and in appendix d is states that it can be used as a guideline and so we're going using appendix d as a guideline

even though it's not adapted. >> okay. and know i understand the aren't it they've chosen not adapt it but t fire department adapts it saw the fire code we've adapted did international fire code and laws us the authority to have the increased width size if we are looking for a guideline and using appendix d as a guideline that's sound judgment. >> okay. you can go on i'm sorry supervisor cowen. >> not quite yet san francisco has adapted the international guideline or standard?

>> okay. so the local jurisdiction is able to. >> when you say the local jurisdiction you mean san francisco. >> of the board of supervisors yes. because the board of supervisors ultimately approves the fire code. >> right. >> so in the i think one point one point one of the fire code talks about the scope of the fire department fire code is adapts the california fire code has expressly in the san francisco fire code we're starting with the state and anything expressing deleted from california we follow the san francisco. >> so how does that play into international. >> so the california fire code only adapts some of the parents

international fire code didn't adapt chapter 5 that's our department access. >> so but in our san francisco fire code we say we adapt anything that the california hadn't adapted from the international. >> okay. >> so weigh getting the best of both worlds thing that san francisco has adapted and - so the san francisco fire department did you community on that project sign off on this project. >> well 2011 chief joanne haynes-white did sign the ic a. >> what's that. >> (inaudible) agreement. >> in that verbiage there's no

written language to the streets but it says that the san francisco fire department has jurisdiction to review the streets once they're becoming available that's now under this phasing we're loudly to comment on the street width. way back in 234r50 or needing we are were not told the streets size we were given a memo of 22 cross sections and today they don't know where the building entrance are going to be. so that's why we worked so well together hammering out the new plan to get most of the streets at 26 to provide the rescue

operation >> thank you. >> so i guess - we went through this some of the slides the gentleman skipped over in the presentation were the ones that said quote residential streets 80 foot clear for neighborhood streets except for the ones with the bike lanes it's not accurate i know the department is taking the position that even though the chief signs the agreement containing the 20 feet clear i understand the fire department commends it is what it is but i think the suggestion we keep hearing there was somehow no dissension in the agreement about what the street clearance was so we're just starting fresh

now four years after the approval the agreement i guess don't think that's accurate at all. >> i'm not an attorney so i don't know and i'm not aware thoughtful document so that's needed to be looked at at a higher level. >> okay. thank you. so chief lombardy >> i promise i'm not going to talk about any codes. go back to the plan >> i wanted to address supervisor cowen's concern about what's actually being built there this is part of the problem with the fire departments interpretation and looking at this later we've been collaborating with the builder and dpw and the planning

department in trying to come to an agreement and trying to keep the streets narrow to all parties can be happy to protect the building. they don't even know where the buildings phases are going to be just give us 26 feet in the front and dwo it on the side we're not even to a spot he think this is designed in concept is it but the city developers can't decide where the front is going to be so to say we're going to do 26 in the front and 20 on the side we're going not arguing so how to inaccurately protect the building that's part of the dilemma. this map is kind of hard to read but all the streets that were

mentions not one student is at 80 feet we've heard 21 maybe most of the streets were a couple of 3 story type 5 but this whole map that you're looking at this is candle stick and there's not one building under 40 feet everything is a multi unit like in supervisor cowen's area all the neighborhoods were single-family homes there's not one single-family home the majority of the buildings are 65 feet and taller so you're talking about a big fire pal lodz when something gets burned recycle the mission bay building we saw burned all the buildings are going to be like that and a couple are 85

and 50 foot high-rises so technically you're in a residential air but this is like the new san francisco with high-rise residential areas there's a big pay load that would burn there's not small buildings and it's touch when your look at a colored map this doesn't speak the truth but a 3-d model would be more effective to see the intensity of the buildings so i'm going to talk about how we operablely do our work we have a few major concerns one our operations and two the construction time period if 20 to 25 years in mission bay when the building burned if we could pull up the projector.

not the computer but the overhead >> sfgovtv can you please put the overheads on to abbreviate the overhead >> thank you. this picture the mission bay is reason we have this any vehicles he at the end we're protecting the next building in construction we're protecting that to not burden or burn the other building across the street the windows blow out we have a building on fourth street was occupied that building was already occupied but you don't see the other two sides of the buildings were not on this building we saved this under construction.

those fires that are not supposed to happen we haven't seen in a while those fires i don't know who was around in 2002 but they builds the road in san jose. well mission bay was the same type of fire to get to the vulnerable state and we've had salt lake city and houston salt lake city had a big fire and houston down in the lower corner they burned and if i can get 90 seconds i'll show you the houston we're talking about how fast the fire spreads in the collapse zone so if we don't have a lot of area in the street

where the building is going to come and collapse that will land on the firefighters so with the single-family home we're noting worried about that but the buildings collapse the only reason that mission bay didn't collapse was because of the scaffolding. this video was taken across the street from a commercial building. just 90 seconds you see how fast the fire starred this is the construction worker and you'll see how fast it takes to get to

him. our residential unites will be bigger a than this >> you mean denseer. >> i mean higher yeah.

once this gentleman is rescued you'll see the collapse i'm talking about this was 2014 two weeks after mission bay. so that's enough of that one that was history those are the types of building we're building all of them are like this that are the other interest is of the

regular we call the residential streets i want to show you our operations here's one from supervisor wiener's area we >> this is walter street. >> so we have two lards up to this point with the jack lards can you see those. >> what's is jack. >> sfgovtv. >> this is is jack here and that's is jack here so when those go out our vehicles go from 17 to 18 feet this is definitely wizarder than 20 feet but we couldn't do this operation within this development with 20 feet streets we could do single fire we can

rescue people but this exact set up we can't do this because we have two airline lards side by side. >> oh, it's not walter street. >> so we're not going to say all our streets are 26 feet wide now imagine the same fire we couldn't do this we have each vehicle behind each vehicle our aerial trucks only reach so far if an aerial truck is 2 one hundred feet away we couldn't get the lards in. in the another shot of mission bay there's an example of being in a collapse zone the rig

underneath the spotlight we ended up leaving the rig there we almost lost our rig that at a the scaffolding we ended you will u up saying our vehicle but it got dangerous and we pulled our firefighters out >> you're talking about the rig. >> the far one we abandon that in place within a half an hour maybe that fire started on that rig. here's another one i don't know the exact street in 2012 valley the operation we're not only talking about lard placement but the hose on the left. go to go next one. here's there's two aerial lards i don't know the street but 3 aerial lards so those lards are going to the same building when

you can't stack in there i might be too far to rescue or get to a roof next one, please. this one is hard to see go on to the next one. here you see the fire building again two aerial lards this street is not narrow it's more than 26 feet maybe thirty something across and the bike lane we have no issues we don't need 13 feet travel lanes but when somethings happens we need 26 feet to feasibly operate. and again two aerial lards. there was one other area we recently had a recently had a

third alarm on bright street and randolph and i'll show you the picture that's the house on fire obviously but did picture in the lower right-hand side corner is looking down the street that's one rig. there's parking on both sides of the street it's about thirty feet wide and parking took up feet so we had 18 feet in front of the fire this show us looking down the block we had one fire truck so the picture above on the right that's randolph we're 3 wide with the rigs those people are fighting the fire but if we had to make a rescue with

an aerial ladder and if it's 3 feet all around we have instances in san francisco this is candle stick point it's one hundred blocks of a project so if you have a hundred blocks of 20 feet it's extremely tough to fight a fire we were able to put the rigs on the block up but if this was 20 feet and the two blocks were 80 feet it wouldn't wouldn't be done >> i think this is important to see the photos in my district since i've seen a number of fires on extremely narrowed