was definitely change the character of north beach, i see no virtue in it whatsoever, except including formula retail in the proposal, just directly aimed at in the independent businesses or mr. macarini said something kind of obvious he thinks that you are here to help small businesses. i really have not thought about it that way. but i hope that he is right and i hope that you will listen to people like me. we have lost our hardware stores and we have lost shoe repair and that does not sound related to this proposal but i am getting at the changes that are happening to north beach for reasons like the proliferation of formula retail and also high rents and other agencies that besides planning, mr. ron who runs a planning, and he is from seattle.

and i don't know if he remembers it, it is a very pleasant city and i think that it is character is very nice, but he seems to have forgotten that in the plans for north beach. we previously had a district supervisor that lived on tell graph hill and he seemed to understand very well what was important about saving the character of north beach. where the district supervisor now who does not live in north beach, is on polk street and he has already found that the polk street merchants did not agree with his planning to remove parking and i just intreat you to not approve this except for including the foreign firms and in addition to that, would i like to inquire why walgreens has never fallen into formula retail, it seems to me that there seems to be dozens of them and a new one went up a half a block away from where i live, why don't they fall under

this, and starbucks, recently bought, and it is the name that pretends to be french but it isn't. , it is on stockton street and it is a chain also, and it is a locally started chain, i don't think that they reached the number ten, but starbucks bought it and they are forbidden for coming into north beach and they own it and everyone knows that, what are the controls on this, please, please don't approve this, there is no reason for it, the planning commission has already told you that it has been working very well and we would like to keep our neighborhood the way that it is, thank you. >> next speaker, please? >> thanks, very much, commissioners, my name is stan haze, my wife and i live on tell graph hill. and i am vice president of the board of the tell graph hill lawyers and i am here on behalf of phd along with the colleagues to ask you to take a close look at the formula retail changes that are before

you. we all know that north beach and the areas like it in this city are special. they are unique. there are so special and unique that formula retail uses are expressly prohibited by the city planning code and that claims that formula retail can hamper the retail diversity and personality and risk the loss of the very neighborhood character and individuality that we seek to protect. but the changes good reasons these are, and by phd and many others, have opposed formula retail so strongly in the past, and still do. if the changes before you the prohibition against the formula retail in north beach will not change and that is good. but the changes how many, companies there are who are able to slip through that prohibs hab beer will increase and that is bad, and the changes that is week in the

law, and from eleven to 20 establishments exempting outside and larger corporations and their spin offs. that they should really be viewed as formula retail not in the way that they are proposed in the changes to the law, otherwise large corporations who want to open a brick and mortar location, for example, would not be considered formula retail, even though they already have multimillion-dollar catalog and on on-line process. and the spin off like black fleece, a spin off of brooks brothers, or jack spade, a spin off of kate spade, and be viewed as formula retailers either. so i would like to ask you to please, help to protect north beach. and neighborhood businesses throughout the city, by keeping the exemption, or keeping

intact, the 11 business threshold that is currently in the code. and please don't endorse, weakening formula safe guards that are currently in place, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> next speaker, please? >> good evening f, my name is paul weber. >> could you use the microphone. >> could you use this. >> my name is paul weber and i also live in north beach. and i am a member of tell graph hill dwellers and one thing to keep in mind if you would when considering this, is that tell graph hill dwellers is made up of not only businesses but the people who live there. and live like living there because of the uniqueness of the character of north beach. so, we are very supportive of our local businesses, and i

have some comments about that. but, this is not just a business issue, this is a way of life issue for many, many people who live in north beach. and indeed, the value of their properties, in north beach are in part, influenced by the uniqueness of the character in north beach. and so please do keep that in mind when you are considering this. now, as to the proposal itself, i would like to address just two issues. one, the number. and two, the so-called spin off. with respect to the number, according to the representatives here today from the city, the increasing the number does not make much difference. if that is true, why change it? what is to be gained by putting at risk the possibility of some very good but very small businesses having to compete with others who perhaps are larger and more aggressive? and if it, ain't broke don't

fix it and it doesn't seem to be a compelling reason to do so. secondly, with respect to subsidiary and frankly that is a lot of nonsense that they can't be tracked of course they can, and the city is not in a position to draft something, i would be happy to help them. so, to just basically write off all subsidiaries of what is a major corporation in the retail business, whether it is through electronic means or brick and mar tar, if they want to come into san francisco, in an area such as north beach. they have to be counted and this is not a difficult problem, believe me, this is something that those practicing in corporate law for many, many years have dealt with over and over and over again. believe me, folks, it is not difficult issue to resolve. so coming back again, remember, those of us who are here

tonight, from tell graph hill dwellers are here for the neighbors as well as the businesses secondly, please leave the number eleven, the greater number is advancing the ball in such degree, and finally, please do include, subsidiaries whether they are domestic or foreign, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> next speaker. >> i am having trouble with the secretary terminal and so i will be tracking your three minutes and three minutes i will give you a signal and i will give you another signal. >> thank you. >> good evening, commissioners, my name is beta pery and i am the president of the tell graph hill dwellers, you have both the vice president and the president as well as the board members that you have the senior officers from the oldest and most historic neighborhood to talk to you, because this issue is so important to us. and the tell graph hill dweller

has over 600 members and our boundaries include, north beach, north water front and some of the most historic areas in all of san francisco. so i am here tonight, representing our membership, because there are two key flaws with what are being proposed to you tonight, before i get to that substance, i want to address some of the comments that i have heard from staff, presentations. which seem a little bit incongruent, and one comment was that the changes that are being proposed are around the edges, this is not changing a nail polish colors, or a lip stick colors, changing the number of stores in the definition of form law retail goes to the heart of this entire legislation. we are driving a stake in and changing that. and if it does not stay at 20, what is to say that another year from now, there will be a push to change it up to 50? we have heard that number floated today several times it is not changes around the edges

these are fundamental changes. >> we are talking about changes to the voter bill and proposition g which enacted the formula retail legislation was voted on and won by i think that it was a 58 to 42 percentage back in 200 1k36 so when i heard all of this good stuff there is a lot of data and the number 1 1 is made up and 20 is not made up and it is based on solid data. eleven was based on the voter will, if these folks here, and this commission are willing to override voter will, there is a problem. and i am asking everyone talk about taking a pause, to take a pause here. this issue of eleven to 20, is critical. it cannot be just overlooked it cannot just be swept over on the guides of data and i also saw that the chamber of commerce was here and which is great and the other folks here and the tell graph hill dwellers we have not had any out reach and this process was going on for a year and i don't

know how we got left out of the process, we are one of the big organization theres is a lot of work to be done and conversations to be had this to me is just the beginning. >> so on the issue of the spin off that is another critical issue to us and these are two key issues that we are bringing to you tonight, on the issues of the spin off and we saw the super burger, powerpoint slide and i understand that one, but how does that account for things like black fleece, i think was the name and it is a brooks brother spin off which will be allowed into the neighborhood and how does that account for athleta which is a gap spin off and there are problems with the two key points, and i don't take issue with the presentation and those are the main problems, place take a pause on this. >> next speaker please. >> steven cornel. and i have lived in 6 districts and north beach unfortunately.

and i am here representing the small business network tonight and, we did send a letter out to all of the these commissioners and i am not going to read the entire letter, we do not have a stance on this particular issue, one way or another. but there are some very important one very important thing that we would like to you to consider and it is the time factor. all, was mentioned before how long some of these stuff takes to go through, and to go through a conditional use permit. and people say, well that is okay, the large formula use, permit has the money and they can do that but a lot of times you have to consider what is happening in the neighborhood, that business, is in the piece of property that might be owned by a small business. and an individual, and in san francisco. and it is an empty storefront, that is sitting around and being a blight in the neighborhood. but we would like you to consider, is asking, that there will be a time limit on the whole process. we were suggesting from the

time that someone submit a cu that there should be a finished up to no more than three months and that is the reasonable amount of time for the people to get in there and out of there and that just seems to be a very important thing from everybody concerned. thank you for your consideration. >> next speaker, please. >> good evening, commissioners paul once again. i am not from tell graph hill and i am from the neighborhood of the upper fillmore commercial district and we have seen first hand, what has happened in the changes first, as spin offs came into the neighborhood. where local san francisco entrepreneurs looking for space were not granted the lease because gap was athleta had the

deep pocket and there was testimony at the planning commission hearing from a local san francisco businessman who has had five retail establishments. saying you know, i did not realize it but when i was bidding for this property, this lease, the fact that i had five really made me much, much stronger, because the landlord was much happier to deal with me and i had an easier time getting credit and to say that the small businessman at eleven is the same as the small businessman as 20 is the same as five, ignores some financial realities that put real pressure on existing small businesses, some of whom are looking to renew a lease and they are not given the opportunity to renew the lease. by the way i am not a small businessman, i talk to the merchants in my neighborhood and you know what? they are scared to say things in public. why? because they have leases coming

up, they may be looking to expand, and they don't want to become known as someone who stirs the pot. i have had calls from realtors saying is there some way that you can stop this formula retail who is coming into the neighborhood and i am saying, no, why are they asking me that? because they have a client who really want that property. and they want to start a business in san francisco. but they can't. because the landlord only wants to deal with chains. the planning legislation acknowledges that fact. so please i am urging you, subsidiaries, when you look at a gap, when you look at a starbucks, the only way that they grow now, is by expanding their business model, super duper is a wonderful case of a small, worthy business that i am sure would be welcomed in

almost any neighborhood. the issue is not that they are prohibited, the issue is that he is taking a chance and i would wager that if planning was to spend some time figuring out how to facilitate those highly desirable merchants local merchants, getting their permits, and which is not just the cu, but is the health and the building permits and everyone else, getting those highly desirable small, local chains, that might do a better job, thank you. >> thank you. next speaker, please? >> hi, commissioners, canila with the district merchants and last, i went out to the stew town, and macy's to pick up the pants from them. and i am not a big fan of formula retail, or any of these sort of stores and i saw on fillmore street and there is a person who owns a restaurant

and the owner is saying, well you know what? i plan to put up the two storis in this building and i am going to do this and i am going to do that, and and the rent is going up and all of these issues. and so what ill think of is okay, you okay, you will want to see the formula retail stores or whatever and i think that it is important that we really take out the commercials of the neighborhood and we are seeing the stores by the entrepreneurs who are from here and from the city and who really make it for whatever and it is make it as attractive as it is. and i will have gone down from looking out and this is really nice and i know in the valley and it is nice to see all of those different stores from all over the place and when something closed i always have a fear that there might be a formula retailer that will move in. and i do think that cu is a good tool. and the problem with the cu as

mentioned by another speaker is that time it gets to get through that, that is the problem. and it should not have to take that long, my god, can't those words just sink out, and things held sooner? and i know that they can be, and i know that they can be but they are not. so, if this is a store that wants to come into town and a formula retail and the neighbors want it and there was the original case in valencia street and the corridor and the business that was from australia and they have like 12 stores in australia and one in europe and they wanted to open up a store in valencia, in the corridor and they said you know what? how long do you have to wait to get the cu? well, oh, that is 6 to 9 months, and he said you know what? thanks but no thanks. so, again, i i am not against formula retail, but at the same time i think that there is a place for them and you want to go to west field and another

company that is from australia by the way, and they have all of they are full of form law retail and you want to go to that you can go to west field and you want to go to stone town there is another one, and another retail corridor and i, would simply need to relook at taking them and thank you. >> thank you. >> any other members of the public? seeing none, public comment is closed. >> is there any on commissioner questions? >> that we have? >> commissioner white? >> yes. i just had a question, just to be clear, tony is going to go through the cu process, and that 20 or more includes subsidiary or it is not or it does? >> so, it would be 20 locations that have two standardized features, sorry. >> 20 locations that have two standardized features, so if

you have say athleta it has more than 20 on its own, but let's say that starbucks has a company called evolution juice and they have four total locations, if they wanted to open a fifth evolution juice at this point in time, that is not considered formula retail and the existing for the evolution juices would not count toward starbucks, they are two separate companies because they have separate standardized features that is how the definition works, but they are owned by starbucks, but they have nothing else in common, they don't carry the same product, and they don't have the same decor and nothing is the same except for the over arching corporate entity. >> and the money. >> yeah. >> all right. >> and any other questions? >> yeah i have a question for miss burns. >> now, when you are doing your

study for the past year, you were working with the chamber, right? >> so what kind of out reach did you have? >> i am sorry what was your question. >> when you are doing the study and putting together this presentation, who do you work with other than the chamber? >> it was the chamber, and it was the neighborhood merchant's organizations and the neighborhood associations and so, the triangle neighbors and the haze valley neighbors and merchants and from the mission, >> castro merchants and the upper market and we had something from polk street and so a bunch of the neighborhoods as well as commercial retores and formula retail representatives and several small business owners. >> and the commissioner dooley was part of the focus group as well. >> and you live in north beach? >> yes. >> okay. >> and one speaker mentioned earlier that you did not reach out to the north beach group so

do we have any north beach small business in the chamber as a member? >> okay. >> i can answer that. i am the president of the north beach association, we are not reached out to at all. >> but you were involved in the discussion? >> i was involved as a commissioner. >> okay. >> commissioner white? >> actually, the study that you guys have done has been really good and i guess that the question that i had is within this focus group is this the consensus of everyone that agreed upon because it seems like it is ideal, and it seems balanced it really does seem like it is a balanced especially for our small businesses that want to grow in the city. and it seems like it is still going through the same regulations, and so i just

wanted to know, and was that a p agreed upon number? because it seems like the data is what we are looking for to support this proposal. >> it is you are asking just about the number or i should probably say about anything, it is fair to say, if you are not going to find a consensus answer that everyone thinks is the right approach. we have had some commissioners that in our planning commissioner that liked the number and some that don't like the number and in our stake holder groups which we established by a limited sample trying to get a diverse representation and in as well as different types of business owners, and neighborhood groups and non-neighborhood groups, and so they had a variety of opinions, and i think that we had some on this side and some on that side, and it is not a consensus, but it is the recommendation that we were able to put together after listening to everybody. >> question?

>> any other commissioner comments? >> yes. i heard one of the biggest concern would be changing the character of the neighborhood. i know that in your presentation, you addressed that, could you reiterate that? >> i think that, the neighborhood character is probably the most important issue to everyone that participated. and to the planning department staff, and there is also economic impacts, and those are not as well understood, and i think that the one thing that we have done through the result of our study, which we did not even present today we just presented the policy recommendations and so if you are interested in the study i encourage you to look at it is that the study for the first time establishes that there is an effect on having some homogeneity that will reduce the character of individual districts and the controller's office also produced a report

that actually quantified that. and talked about the impact of our economy, and if we lose this sort of diversity, so i think that between all of the various reports that it has been put on the public record now, the city is in a much stronger place to say that this is important to the neighborhood character and that is why we are choosing to regulate it. >> okay. >> for the companies that have been, less than 20 locations they are not considered formula retail. but we still have to go through the administrative review, right? by the planning department? >> so everybody will need, everybody needs permits, and needs to come through the planning department for review. but what we are talking today is about changing the definition of formula retail, and in bulk we will capture more definitions with the proposed changes than the number of businesses that get captured today. so, one thing that we have found out, is that a lot of people are really interested in

giving a break to business owners who live here or businesses who start here. and that is something that we can't do. we can't look at that ownership in that way, because it is discrimination and it is the way that the federal government has allowed to regulate businesses but we are not allowed to regulate economic commerce in that way, and so we can regulate the land use sites but a side benefit of raising the number, is that when you look at the businesses that fallout between 12 and 20, those businesses are the ones that miss burns pointed out that they are more likely to be started here and expanding here and so we feel that by it is not our intended effect, a side effect is that it will benefit those sorts of businesses. >> okay. commissioner ortiz-cartagena. >> i want to agree with the commissioner that the presentation was thorough and comprehensive and i know that this is not the easiest issue

in the city to mitigate, and i did have a question regarding the administrative review, and what that entails, and i heard that if it is controversial and then it will go to the cu, but what makes something controversial what is the criteria for that? >> and so, it would work by allowing any member of the public to request a public hearing. and then it would be brought to the planning commission for a full public hearing and a public opinion could be laid in for part of that. >> and so just with one person in the public that would set a trigger n >> they would file a discretionary review with our department. >> okay. >> is the neighborhood feel strongly about a certain business coming in, and they can't also ask for a full review, right? >> if it is going through that administrative review process, yesterday. >> and commissioner, dooley? >> i have a few comments, and the administrative review

process would not be part of the business had 20 businesses or less, correct? >> and there would not be that recourse. >> correct. if the definition was changed to 20. >> i would like to make a few, are we doing questions. >> all right. >> thank you. >> i just like, and okay, any more questions? >> i do, i have one more just so i am really clear on this. on the two things, i would like the that is the main part that i like about the signage and the going into the neighbors and so good job on that. and the other thing that i wanted to ask and in regards to the parent company have a subsidiary is there a cap on the companis that they can have? >> like is there a, you know, gap if they have,... >> so, the proposal in the planning commission has not acted yet and this is a staff proposal, it is not to include subsidiaries. so not to include it at all. >> we can't distract them

unless they are publicly traded and so the private agreements and purchases there is not a public trail of those and so that is part of the issue with that. >> okay. >> okay, commissioner tour-sarkissian. >> i have a quick question about your comment, and just numbers. you stated that it, the impact for going from eleven to 20 is only five percent. but then you stated that that five percent exemption is further lowered with the other restrictions and regulations, could you dwell on that? >> sure. >> sure. >> by raising the number from eleven to 20, we would capture all but five percent of the existing formula retailers in san francisco. but, then, by adding the other use categories and counting international locations, and counting permitted locations that are not operating which we don't do, that will capture, 150 more businesses, and that is the conservative estimate

because we don't actually know how many are title and permitted at this point. >> is that, the conclusion is that there is no more exemptions that is actually more capture? >> it is more restrictive over all, yes. >> yes. >> and any other questions? >> i just, i want to say thank you, again, for this as well. and thank you, commissioner ortiz-cartagena said, i like this it is very balanced on both sides, and i was involved in the prop g when that was going to ballot zm the number eleven was just pulled out and there was no analysis and that number was just pulled out and i remember being at some of those meetings where the people