those calls. >> some of them may not involve the students. >> it could be a property vandalism and it cars were broken into in front of the school and the principal happens to be the first one in and calls the police and there could be a variety of different reasons why the police may have been called to the site and i don't think that the actual calls for service indicate that it was a problem regarding students and faculty. or and i will say that i just want to say that also i just want to, and we will be relying on the calls to police data from sfpd, for us, we can record that data if it relates to a particular student, and if we go in and we record the data and we have to align if and we can't just do a general because there is no open case, and so the schools will have to manually, take the note to call to police. but you always have to open up

a student's file and you can't just do a generic incident report and unless you do it in a narrative way and this will be tricky and i am finding a lot of this data collection and interventions and you are asking the schools to do a lot more data collection and the ease of the data collection and i just want to put it out that there the calls and every single one may be problematic for us and so we will rely on their data for that. >> and then we will have to go in by address. by address of all of the schools. >> to see which calls came from which schools, and what those calls were in break it down. >> so,... i mean is that something that we could explore further in what it may look like and i know that we are asking a lot of the school sites in terms of the data that we are collecting and it does not fit into how we are recording the arrests but it

does seem like we want to know and our schools have called the police for one reason or another, and it seems like a valid, data point. and you know, we can continue that conversation and i realize exactly where it will go and how they will record it and what system is further but i think as we look at the information that is valuable for us to track here, it seems like that is one and maybe there is a way that we can work together on that. >> and just one more quick thing. and now i am forgetting. oh, so i did, and you know as i was looking at the offenses for arrests, which i had two comments, one about this and i will get them together and you can respond, before i get cut off by the president here. so, i am wondering you know, a number of the arrests are for things that are kind of physical violence, like fights or physical injury caused attempted is kind of the

biggest one and there are a number of others that are sort of like that. and battery, and so, i am wondering, sort of if you could explain to us, a little bit more, so that we understand the situations in which, the police are involved in what in fights and these kinds of things that will occur in a school, and what are the situations in which police intervention does make sense for what may be physical altercations in a school site and those situations in which they don't. so sort of what is the if we have any sense of for, and this is important i think for guidance for our staff is what are the situations in which it does make sense to bring it and the police presence, when they are involved, physical altercation in particular and because a lot of these, you know, if you are talking about the drug possession, they are nice but it seems like a lot of the gray area for when to involve the police will be when there are physical altercation

and what situation is appropriate and then there is this reference to the task force and brought this up last time and if that is continuing to be and a task force that is going to be composed, and if it has been composed and if there is a way to engage such a task force you may have mentioned this and i missed it, on some of these questions, around disproportionalty as we think about, the comments that were raised of the continuing concerns around it is disparity and i realize that there are a lot of factors involved in that and if that is something that we do have fight?

two people are involved usually that is handled by the school unless there is an injury, if there is an assault where the unprovoked victim, is assaulted and beaten up by somebody, and then it is usually is an arrest. and usually there is an injury there and maybe a parent that is insisting on an arrest that is when we come into play, if two people are pushing and shoving in the school yard and everybody is okay with it and

there is no injury, that is handled usually by the school and we don't intervene in that. that is probably the best that i can say on that. and on the second question, around the task force. that is not the real primary function of the task force sxh that is something that needs to be looked at, and we have met with the juvenile probation and kevin, and i spoke earlier, and in the school year about to really, look at that disproportionate piece. and my thought along with another person who does a lot of analysis, is to look at some of those cases and see where, a lot of this starts. you know, how far back? especially if it is somebody that has been arrested say multiple times, at what point, does the young person start getting in trouble? at what point were the first police first notified to get

involved in the family or in with that young person. and so that we can learn from it so that we can change this because this just continues and i mean, for years we have been seeing the same kind of trend, is there some point where an intervention was made or could have been made way back and maybe if we look at that data and we try to collect a lot of that data to go back and see, where exactly maybe, some changes could be made so that we don't continue it. often times it is very hard to change it after the fact. i mean if an assault occurred or a robbery occurred and a certain person is the perpetrater and they are identified as several people, then our hands are tied. but if we could look back at data and say when the majority of these kids may have been 8 or 9, could something have been done at that time and could there have been a restorative justice and, if other disciplines that came together, would it have changed the course of it? i think that we need to look at it more that way than trying to necessarily change at this level, i mean, that is my, sort of my take on it and talking

with the juvenile probation to kind of look and see what could we really do for the assistance perspective to change that out come? >> hi. nice to see you, so i think that the, you know, these reductions are important and what you have said for a threshold for what the police matter for fighting and i will not do it now but you have heard me tell the story about the conversation of a former chief that that was within the domain of the police and they got to decide and yes any, fight is a crime. no, no, no,. and so that is one of the things that led to this kind of work and it is great to hear a different point of view and i think that we all have a different point of view about what intervention and help and the seriousness of these things

and what those mean, but i do want to say and ask some questions about the disproportionalty and some of us were at the restorative practices across the street and it is something that we noticed looking at this data but at our expulsion and suspension data in recent years is that the comment was brought up that often, when you reduce the absolute numbers of disproportionalty, actually goes up. and so that is i would like to see which i think that kevin is a question for you, if we could just informally have some of the data over time and to look at how this is related to what we know about when these excuse me wh, these numbers were much higher, what do we know about the disproportionalty of that time and i think that that kind of information gives us the opportunity to focus more on what we can do about this.

data here. and also, today, one of the things that was interested to me was, stories that we heard about oakland, about some really dramatic reductions in disproportionalty not in the district but in certain schools. and so, i am hoping that there are things that we can learn in there about whether or not, we have, it is possible for us to focus even more on, you know if we saw, and i don't, and i remember why we did not want to do that, and if we saw, if there are just a few schools, where most of this is happening and the numbers are so small that we ought to be able to find that out easily and that will help us to decide what kind of source those schools need and so i really appreciate that. and i was glad to hear what you

said about the, about delving more into the analysis of what is in the calls. and then, the other question that i have is that as i understood it and as i remember when we started this relationship we, one of the things that was in our policy was that absent some physical threat, to someone, and someone or something going on right at the moment, that principals are not supposed to call the police, unless they speak to an assistant superintendent, is that not true? >> no. >> no, they don't need permission to call the police, they can call on their own. >> okay. well could you find out where that what happened to that in the policy, because we have had a lot of discussion about that in the past. >> so i have never during my entire, this is the first that i have heard this, so the entire time that i was a principal i never had to ask permission to call and i can look this up and see where that

policy would be. >> and then it is not a direction that we can... >> one of the things in the policy is that we are also, nobody is supported to be interviewed by the police in the school unless their parent has been notified and the parent is present, or some advocate, usually a school administrator, actually or a teacher, is there with the student. so the kids are never... >> so one of the things that is definitely in the mou. and one of the things that it does say in the mou is do not call and if it does specify things that you should not call the police for, you are not supposed to call the police to be the disciplinary for the school. that regular staff should not be calling the police that they need to inform an administrator who would be the one to contact the police, security guards do not contact, unless it is a 911 which anyone can do, the principal, however, is the one who would be and make that determination, and that is what

is in the mou. as far as interrogations or any contact in being questioned by the police, the parents must be notified and given a reasonable time to appear at the school and we assessed the reasonable time to be three or three hours, at least given the parents and how soon can you be here and allow them that time to be there. to be present when their child is questioned, so those things are happening. yes, okay. >> so i have two other issues. one is that we have always been concerned and i think that there are stuff in the policy about this too, trying to minimize, or erase, which i understand is not possible, to minimize the arrests of students in schools for things that happen outside of the schools. >> so we wanted to, and this was by the way, one of the sort of core issues of the sro program is that if we, and if the point was to have a relationship between the police

department and students who spent their lives in the neighborhoods arounds them and part of the community policing philosophy and there was a lot of concern when we passed this policy that you know, that perfectly understandable, the police are looking for somebody and they know that that kid is a student and they know that kid is going to be there the next day. and we wanted to avoid that as much as possible. >> so that we did not damage the relationship building, but more important to the school. they were able to maintain the sense that the school is the safest place for the students and even the ones who are in trouble. >> that is spelled out in the mou. >> that the intent is not to use the schools as the place for at rest. >> that there are certain circumstances and incidents where it has to be and it will be, so with have tried to avoid that and... >> do you refuse that in any way? >> we are contacting me whenever an arrest is made

where it has to be done at school and the principal will contact me and said this was the situation and i know that tomorrow so the principal will go over where it will take place and who is going to come to the school and what time it is going to be and those cases where it has to happen that way, we do contact. >> we will be able to document how many of those we have had and how that has been reduced over time. >> the last thing that i have one other question and this is something that is you know, not answerable now, but i am hoping in the future, and that is that you referenced to the blue bar, and that these carc numbers data is about, and they are about ongoing cases. and so if you look right below there, you see, people who are cited to carc and handled by carc and not going to jail and that the whole point of carc not going to jail and so that is something else that in the future it would be good if we could arrogate in some ways so that we know how long people

are, you know, generally speaking, by the way, i think not to the school district but just out there in the world all of those juvenile justice advocates have this data about the duration, of kids who are involved with carc and how, you know, effective it has been and how successful and how long they are there and about the recidivism and stuff like that. >> the last few years we have not gotten a lot of dispositions back and i just asked a group of officers of the case that you referred to carc or to the juvenile justice center, what comes back on these cases, you know? what is the end result? we don't have a lot of that data and so we have to go back and pull it and find out if a student is assigned for a case manager, how long do they stay? depending on the different circumstances. and that information will be interesting to get. >> and you are interested in collecting that data for your own purposes. >> we had that data years ago and in the last few years it has not been collected and so

we need to kind of get that process back in place. >> thank you very much. >> i appreciate all of this work. >> commissioner maufas? >> thank you, president fewer and thank you for this presentation, and this is and i care deeply about it and it is common knowledge. and too, your work in this area, and the people and it has long been noted and the partnership with the usfd and i see you as a regular partner on behalf of the police department and thank you for continuing because i think that the continuity is beneficial for us and i hear that you are trying to revamp some systems on your end to provide the information that you need and that is why i think that the continuity of you can there is beneficial and i think that for us, on our side, mr. truet and deputy superintendent lee, this information that you are trying to get, is it seems like there must, and my assumption is

without all of the technology going on and ramping up of our systems that we might be able to tweak some of the systems so that he can pull the information that we are desirous off and so i am hoping that our deputy superintendent to the it department and we can figure out what systems sorry, synergy and how that can benefit this kind of work because it is truly important. and i can't imagine that we are going to stop asking you for it. >> so, that is going to be a constant request, so how do we figure out how to make it happen? that is my request to you deputy superintendent. it is not going to go away for information. but the synergy cannot provide today but how do we get it to provide to us that is not attached to a student in that is the primary thing and the first, and sort of the lens that i saw that we could not get the information from the school and so it just lumped into this, this school that

arrests at schools that we don't know if that is property and or if it is between the students, and i got, maybe some of that from you, and so i am hoping that maybe with the work through the deputy superintendent and the people that he over sees, that can we can find some answers. and i appreciate it, again, what kind, and you are trying to help your system, get better, at helping you report. and not only to your department, but also in the partnership with us and the community organizations and absolutely want to hear this information, and i appreciate the commentary about the age. that is so very important. and unfortunate, that we need that information and but we do need it because again i just don't want to rely on a rumor and i want to know. and so as soon as possible, this information arrogated by age and figuring out how the charts which are helpful to be pulled apart as you have heard the other commissioners say and i think that it is important and i think that you are already on that and i heard you respond to some of that and what you are thinking about

doing which will be helpful to you folks and to us and as a board and a larger community that deals with the kids. the area that i wanted to focus my comments on, and this is a movement that is not only taking place in schools, you know, broader schools outside of the school community. and broader communities, outside of the school district. and outside of the schools, are interested in making a difference in their communities and oakland is using it outside of their schools and it is really helping the communities and we are doing the same thing here. and it sounds like the folks all up and down california and across the nation are really focused on this and i want to.

and i didn't hear, specifically that this task force is up and operating. it is not. okay. can you tell me when? i need a time line, because i feel like we have talked about it quite a bit and it had been, because we are not finished with the mou and i think that that is, and i hope that is not a hindrance but i will take what you have to say and comment on that. >> i asked, and at first, we were going to have the restorative practices, and the coaches and said that they were too closely tied to the schools and it could jeopardize the relationship and so i talked to and i needed someone to... and i have asked ben who is the

best person to lead this work and so i have asked them to get in touch with various stake holders and toward the end of the year there is a lot of people services very busy at the end of the year because they are going to be safety transfers and there are going to be all kinds of cases that they need to finish up before the end of the school year and so we just ran out of time. >> so, i get that you ran out of time so we have a time line. >> and we will start school with that task force in operation. yes. >> and i i think that from my experience, and in working with sfusd, and community members and school districts community members, and i am sorry, sfpd, pardon me, and community members that are outside of our school district and community members within our school district, and i know that i have mentioned this before and i absolutely believe that the office of citizens complaints

needs to sort of participate and play in that sort of and they need to participate and play an integral role in the process. and i think that some of what they bring to the table in regards to their understanding, around the differences, and the issues that happen and i think that we need to hear that. and betting that along with this process is a good thing. and all ideas at the table being discussed. whether they are actionable or not i think that those conversations should happen and i hope that is met with openness instead of really trying to figure out how we close this body off. and to have others, give others access to information, and do you want to say something. >> my thoughts on that and i spoke to somebody from occ just the other day, and they are seeing and they have seen several case wheres there has been violations of our general

order around the juveniles is 7.01 and the violations of the officers around and 7.01 and i think that the majority of those could be due to a lack of training and there has not been a lot of of training around youth and police, and schools and police. and probably in several years, and officers may get a little hour advanced officer training but there has not been anything come prehinive in a while and that is what is attributing to being incidents and so i want to meet with them and get a handle on what it is that they are seeing and so that i can go back to the officers to be able to as a learning experience and for training purpose and my concern was having the occ involved. in this task force, is that they become disciplinary for the officers. and it is something with the task force where we are going to discuss the issues that have come up.

and i see the task force and having sat on the first task force, and we thought that we were going to be the main issues, and not being as big or as important with the perceptions about those issues were. i see it more as being a way to bring people together to see what are the issues, what, what information do we all need to know? what could we do better? more than when you bring in the occ, they are going to be looking for violations that the officers may have the violated and that is a discipline thing and it will be difficult to have an open discussion and open honest discussion where we want to make some changes, and solid out comes if we have somebody in that group that can basically recommend discipline for the officer. that is my main issue and i

think that it is important that we get the feedback and we see what it is that the complaints that they are getting because there may be a pat at pat pattern, can we have the occ involved, i don't think that it will happen and i don't think that the union would allow it. >> i appreciate those thoughts. and i understand from that perspective. >> because that has been the interaction with them as a body. but i feel like the conversation about what the role is, and honest, and clear boundaries, would help set up a place where this collective could do some really meaningful work. and i think that we are all smart enough and i hope that associate superintendent truet, has a lens when it starts to get skewed and uncomfortable we are able to address that and maybe tweak this a bit because i believe that we have all said

that this should be a living document, where it can be adjusted because we see differences and friends, or how we are behaving together and i think that opportunity is really important, and i don't want to miss it. and i would rather not miss the opportunity and catch when it does, or when the relationship don't go well. verses, not having an opportunity at all. >> those are my thoughts in regards to that and i just wanted to verge a little bit from what you are thinking and we can present the opportunity and monitor it closely. but also, ours will as well. of what you mentioned and an area that might be very uncomfortable in the same room because of just boundary issue. and we are good that you all do. every day. but, i hope that through the clarify my thinking around the process. >> okay. >> so...

>> and then, in regards to mr. kaufman, i am truly believe that he is just a great asset to us and will be a great asset in leading maybe, coordinating the task force, but i just wanted to get up and off the ground and really moving forward. >> yes. >> and then the last thing i just heard and in our commentary about the numbers, and then really be reflective of today's syposium, and it talked about when we talked about a lot of interventions for young people. and i thing that there are some adult interventions that also need to happen and some of the disproportionalty, i think that we need to call it out and some adults need the intervention and we need to address some of that as well in this process and i believe, in the task force, we can find those areas, where we need to

help some adults move to a different way of thinking around our young people, whether they are african americans, and latino, or any of the young person and i think that we need to be open to understanding that adults need to think and stratize differently and we can do that well together and not being afraid to call on our own issue and bring them forward and figure out how we change our behavior, in process and we also try to create, really meaningful intervention for young people so that they don't enter the system and stay there. those are my comments. thank you very much for again, will you lieutenant i appreciate it and your partnership with the school district. thank you so much very. >> and our public commenters thank you. for participating and monitoring, and being vigilant with us. >> thank you. >> president fewer. >> commissioner mendoza mcdonald, >> i just want to say a thank

you also and to remind us how far that we have come, this momelet u is different from what we have ever seen and i am appreciative that we have systems in place instead of just guessing to see what is going to happen if something bad were to happen, and it just makes me feel a lot better knowing that the conversations that have been going on and the input from the community and how our intentions on training, and all of the other pieces are coming together and so thank you. >> and so thank you. and i was not cutting you off commissioner haney, i was sort of thinking, yeah, like, we should have that data. sorry. so, i do think that with all of the calls that there are i don't think that it is asking too much to log it, so any time that the police are called to our schools that we should know.