>> no the convenient zones are not recycling centers it is just an area designated to have the recycling center it does not mean that they have one. >> it looks about 35 recycling centers in 1990. >> correct. >> okay. >> so, state wide, what the director of the... i could do to give the assumptions based on the convenience in the recycling centers in that area, and so the director can give up to 35 percent for the convenient zones she kind of up to 35 percent. well we based those exemptions are for the convenience for the consumers to recycling. and they have to go far, and it is do they have the volume to support the recycling? and based on that, we can grant an exemption if you notice state wide, it is about 31

percent exempted, and san francisco has 35 percent exemptions. and the key to this is how many zones are served and how many zones have recycling centers, state wide, 54 percent of the zones have recycling centers and san francisco is only 22 percent. and if you look out on the zones which is lack of convenience and some respect, san francisco has the highest, 41 percent. >> george will not say it but i will, it is difficult to grant a request for exemptions in san francisco. >> thank you. >> and i agree with my boss. any questions on that? >> this next slide, is just a

break out we have 3727 convenience zones state wide, with about 54 in san francisco. and again, la has the highest, but los angeles is doing a great job to have a lot of safe zones and they have the lowest number of unsafe zones. compared to the other major cities, these are the top four cities. la san diego, san francisco. and san jose. next slide. >> could i have a quick question. do you keep track of the number of recycling centers per population? you know, per... >> yes,vy done and we have done

that analysis. i can provide that information, later on. i would imagine that san francisco is not doing that well. >> yes, but again the way that the law is set up, it really is not based on population, convenience zones just based on the number of super markets. >> okay. >> and so from that chart of the cities it looks like san francisco is percentage of unserved areas is 41 percent much, much higher than other cities? >> yes. >> okay. >> way higher. i mean, 4 times higher than los angeles. next slide. >> it looks about four times or three to four times the state-wide average. >> correct. >> okay. >> so, this is what is taking place in san francisco, the other areas that we show in

blue are we called the unsafe zones, and otherwise there are no recycling centers in these areas, the exempt are the ones that are in purple, and there are always in pink, and the green are the safe zones, and a hose zone that is very recent and what happens is that when the recycling center closes they have a grace period where we determine what is going to be served or another person is going to come in. we can see if we can grant an exemption and i can tell you based on my boss's comment, that this safeway store that just closed off of 14th is not going to get an exemption. >> so that yellow on the left-hand side on the ocean beach is in my district. >> and there is no notice at all to our office even though we reached out to them. what are your suggestions to

work with safeway to reverse that decision to make sure that it stays open? >> so, i think so with the safeway and has what we called the grace period, because usually when these happens we find out do you have any plans to bring another recycling center in and so we also solicit from the communities and say would you like to see a recycling center here and we look at the recycling center that was at the site where they are doing the volumes and we take the temperatures testimonies and say sorry it looks like that you have to have a recycling center. the options are have it or pay $100 a day. >> okay. so from this month, i wanted to take a look at the area if i can see if i can find it here or not.

>> okay. >> let's see. i am not too familiar with this area. but pay attention to if you can read where it says that san francisco community recycling. that our understanding is that it is surrounded by paints and our understanding is that does site and i guess that it is off of market street. >> it is church and market? >> yes. >> it is slated to close, that is our understanding. and it does happen where it is going to happen is that in the next slide you are going to see a lot of browns. i mean, all of those zones, that were given the exemption are probably going to lose the exemption status because there is no recycling center and the other zones are going to become

unsafe and which means again that the convenience is going to be lacking in this part of the city and if you notice also on the maps with we have added the districts or the numbers of the supervisor districts and if you know this, and you know that district one has one recycling center remaining but two has nothing, three, no recycling center, five, no recycling center, and so, like my boss said, we would not be granting exemptions. >> actually could i just say that for district one, the safeway store at 7th and cabrillo is an automated or it is a what do you call them the reverse vending machine it used to be a full community recycling center. and it is an example of auto maition, and the elimination of human beings that work with

people as they recycle and replacing them with machines, could i just ask you about these reverse machines and the impacts of a closure of a recycling center and the use of those machines, what is the impact on the business, and if people can go inside of the business, to get a redemption value, could you just explain that? >> so the reverse vending machines if they are set or there are two types, and you know, they are acceptable but they can get and they may be all bought and size continuous and you may not be able to asset and it becomes the responsibility of the host stall and in this case the safeway to accept those containers, if the machines are not operating, the host store is required to redeem containers from consumers. >> so the store is required to allow the people to go into the store to... >> only during the hours where, i mean, the machines are down, and the person and they are not, and if the machines are,

and then they are not required to go to the stores, operational, because it is a recycling center. >> okay. >> next slide. >> if this slide, shows you the parts of the market streets, and some of the community recycling center close, and if that happens then san francisco is going to go from 41 percent unserved to 57 percent unserved convenient zones. and i don't believe that there is any community in the state that has that number of zones, and the five of the city. >> and so the impact is dramatic, from 41 percent, to 57 percent, unserved, and it makes us almost five times the state average, unserved in our

city. that recycling center that has closed and we are surprised to see that one closed. and the impact of that and the convenience zones, is that there were three convenience zones that became impacted. and not too long after that, the cycle and the marina closed and that had impact on three convenience zones. and then the one also closed. and on webster and so altogether to have the zones that have. and we have 191 dealers that

are impacted, to pay the $100 a day or redeem the coverage in the store. when i first started working for them, i had a job where i had to go to the stores, and carry a bag of containers and ask the cashier or someone to redeem those containers and one of them was common responses was that we are not a recycling center and i don't believe that was the intent of this program to make the dealers recycling centers but for consumer convenience, that is the requirement. and that is high jose mentioned that ideally we would like to see the recycling centers. if the san francisco recycling centers were to closed it is going to get worse and like we said, we exclude the impact and the nine convenient zones and since we have had we are going to grant any of those zones and an exemption and additionally 118 dealers are going to be

impacted. and so you are looking at close to a little above 300 dealers, in the city of san francisco. that will be required to redeem containers of 800 dollars a day. >> this is significant, to us. it is very problematic, because it is going to be another 118 locations that we in theory will be taking enforcement actions upon. we don't know, even if they collected the materials in the store we don't know what happens with that material, once it ends up there. does it end up in the curb side stream or does it end up in the landfill? we have absolutely no data, and it is just something that we want to avoid so that we are very much interested in working with you all to make sure that we establish recycling centers where it is possible. >> i think that it is great that regina from the office of small business is here to talk about the negative impacts on

those. >> the last slide is our wish list. so idealy, and so in an ideal world, it could happen. >> if we could have the recycling in all of these zones, where we will show you the yellow triangles, and that will be great, and that will bring san francisco to power with the other cities. and something that we will do our best to support and to work with the city and to grow and the recycling companies, and look out the conservation codes and all of the entities that are willing to help in this indid he ever. >> could i just say that this is a wonderful vision and i am embarrassed as a san francisco city official, that in the birth place of parts of the environmental movement and the other things that we are doing such a horrible job, it sounds like, so it is a good segway now to talk to our department of the environment. but are there any questions

colleagues? are there any questions colleagues? >> no. >> thank you for all of the information, too. [ applause ] >> on that note, it was a great segway, actually, thank you, supervisor and thank you supervisor for holding this hearing, frankly. i think that if this was an easy issue, somehow that we could just pass an ordinance it would be done. but the fact is that we have this dismal rate of service indicates that, and it has been going on for a long time and you have expressed your frustrations to me personally to how long this has been going on and the solution is not... and so i have the ideas and my name is debbie, and i am a new and old, both new and old to the department of the environment and i am new in the sense that i have been director for about two and a half weeks,

and i think that it is telling that my first time before you is on this issue. so, i think that this tells about it is about time, and we need to figure out how we move forward. so it is a blessing for me to follow cal recycling and they did paint a very dismal picture but they did it very well, in fact they ended with a vision and that is interesting about that last slide those numbers of triangles were about 12 and so we are not talking about infinite numbers of super markets to come to the table here. it is a reasonable number but what is different about those 12 triangle and what we have now is the idea of distribution. and that they are spread out across. and so what i want to do in the next ten minutes is fill in some of the picture that cal recycling started specifically around california. so just as super high level so that we are all remembering why

we are here and cal recycling talking about this, ab2020 understood that in order to maintain and get real recycling you have to create a market place. and so what it said was, and it was very much before its time, it defines something called crv. and the r in crv is not recycling, it is redemption. they are talking about getting money back, putting money into a system. and so that intention of ab 2020 was two-fold to do two things, create a market place, because they understood that the market place is what drives the behavior change and sustain able systems you don't want the government in there and if you look at who is responsible and the local government was not on that list and it was the people that made the money off of the beverages as well as the state oversight, and the local business. and so that is who they envisioned so they said that we

need to create a market place and a financial mechanism separate from government and secondly and equally as important to the market place was convenience for consumers and that there will be convenience for recycling and redemption. this is fundamentally a producer responsibility model and i know that those of you who have been following the issue of how do we get to zero waste to get to the zero we need that producer responsibility. the responsibility is a shared one. it is for the source of the money comes from us the consumer. and it also comes from beverage sellers, because they profit. and it was very explicit, who offers the convenience? that second half? super markets. it is actually spelled out in the law. in the definition section, super markets they define them based on the volume and it was ls the intention of the authors of this law that those convenience zones are drawn around a nucleus of a super market. but they knew that they needed a back stop so they said if the

super market decided it op out because they can opt out and pay 100 a day and 3600 a year and it might not be impossible and might choose to do that and so the officers understood that they needed a back stop and so it was that if the super market refused all of the little businesses around would have to raise and take responsibility and take back in the store. they understood that that was not a ten able situation, but the expectation was, at the time, that the subpoena mer markets would step up that they would do their part and they would have a shared responsibility. and in fact, you saw that in san francisco, and safeway was a phenomenal example of that, and safeway came up and said, all right, we are here as a primary super market in san francisco, and we will have the centers. but now you will have to say, what is left? >> so this is my sort of summary slide that talks about what is the current situation

in san francisco? where are those recycling centers, we had about 33, or 35 of them in the hey day and now we are down to 14, 15, but the pictures is even more complicated than the numbers, where are those recycling centers? who is doing it? ? who is sharing in the responsibility and what i want you to look at and everybody that can read that blurry text to see that there are only two super markets that are stepping up right now, safeway and foods co in the bay view, other than that, half of the centers are not in super markets at all, they are in industrial sites, scrap yards, and so the picture of those wonderful yellow triangles which represented super markets it is not about numbers, they have the same number, it is who is doing it and who is sharing in the responsibility, at this point,

there is a lot of absentee super markets that is what my next slide is going to show. >> so who could be at the table? who could be working with us today? so now, if you could look and you see that safeway, oh, yeah we are the major one and they have 15 super market and we have 54 businesss in san francisco that are classified as super markets, and the whole foods has six, trader joes has five, and smart and final molly stone, food co and fresh and easy, and lucky and all of those people could be at the table with us. but they are not yet. and they are not. so, right now, i have to say that i have a bit of sympathy for safeway and i don't want them closing down their centers but when they say, why should we have the entirety of the burden, i have to say that they are right. because the model here was not that safeway would save the day, but that super markets would take responsibility and we are not seeing that.

so what is the impact of that decrease? that impact is really beyond simply our recycling numbers. way beyond a potential loss of revenue and in fact the people of san francisco. and because the people of san francisco are the ones who that money is coming from. that 18 million dollars, that comes to the city, 12 million of that, is going to the people who bring their nickels and dimes there. that is a very significant revenue source. and we don't actually know a lot about who uses those, there is a lot of stories about who uses them. and who is using the recycling centers but we have not actually done the study to say who is coming? and what is the need? and that is something that we can think about as a city, that may be we need to do. and the other impact, of the fact that these markets are not stepping up, is that we have 650 small businesses, that are

potentially going to carry the load for these 54 super market and we don't even need 54. we need 12. so i think that we should have the city to be able to get that. >> and i think that there are two sites now, and potentially more, and so i would add them to this. >> it is my list is not accurate, that would thank you, and we will take that thank you. >> this was something that we put together this week, and it can be a living document. so thank you for that. >> and as you are saying. >> yeah. >> the need is about 12 and >> according to cal recycling. >> and it could be seen as a community benefit as negotiated with a store that goes into the neighborhood and i am trying to think about. noe. how do we incentivize them? >> that is the big question, how do we get the folks on this list to come to the table? what are the tools that we have

as a community, beyond just the department of the environment for the supervisors? what can we do? because the challenge of meeting the intent of 2020 is not the market place, it is there, it is the convenience, that is the challenge for all of us in this room, what is a fair solution? sometimes on the powerpoint, all of the formatting goes awry, but getting to a solution, it means that we are going to need to bring all of the parties to the table and if you look at the number of potential parties, it is quite large. and it is complicated, and because we do not have the authority to pass a law, and you are preempted as a board from maintaining that every center be a recycling center, and you do not have that tool, and because you are preempted

in doing anything in term of laws we have to think of what else we can do, so the first thing that we can do is bring the parties together that should have an interest in making this work. so that we don't go to a 57 percent unserved rate which is embarrassing, if we get all of these people together and the private sector and the community groups and the public sector and i think that the answer is going to take all of us because we all recognize, that because we have concentrated these recycling centers and this market place into a very, small subset of the city we are seeing unintened consequences of deep impacts on the neighborhood. and i don't blame the neighborhood that feels like they are carrying the burden for the whole city and therefore, they have all of the shopping carts and all of the noise. and it is only, we are only going to be addressed that if we disburse and spread out the responsibility. >> right now, the brunt of it is just the district six, and... >> and ten. >> as well.

>> yeah. >> and so if what you are seeing and this is what i am hearing from the people is that, for those people who don't live no those districts, they are going to have everything on muni and so they are coming with their bags, and so it is not for their riding their bikes or taking the shopping carts, and so there is a lot of human impacts that are way beyond recycling rates here. >> and so the parties have got to come to the table. and so what is the role of the department of the environment in this, and because, again we cannot bring the legislation to you as an option. and but we can serve as a convener and i think that is a very logical and an important place to us but a convener does not have all of the answers, it offers a space for the people to come with good will. and so how do we get the super market to come, and in the fairness to them, i have not called a single one and so i have not asked them to come to the table yet. and so, i am learning from this hearing, and i want to hear what i need and the questions that i need to ask and then i will invite them and so my ask

to you, is that you stay engaged with us. and because, we will work with the mayor's office and that is my responsibility. but again the mayor's office can't do it alone and so this is really a joint the solution here is joint, we have to work together. >> is so, here here is the final thoughts of what the success looks like and because i don't think that it is unachievable and this is not a complete list, there are a lot more things that can come on this. what do we need in a system that is sustain able and going to meet the needs of 2020 and all of the needs of the people of san francisco, number one it needs city wide distribution and we can get creative and having the recycling center is not the only answer that is opened ten to five, seven days a week or five days a week, we can make use and we can mix things up and have the staff centers and the vending machines and we can have the rotating sites and the mobile centers and rotating hours of operation and what is not on

this list but would be a part is in-store redemption and i think that it is going to take us to say, all right, let's sit back and reset, the clock, and start from zero and think about how do we built this from where we are now? and clearly, this last bullet is really important, and it is that we are going to have to plan for, and manage potential community impacts of these locations. and it would be any eve to think, that there will be no potential impact. and so, we are going to have to work with the police department and going to have to work with dpw and may even have to find the creative funding sources if it is the responsibilities of dpw to do something or the police department. and we can work with devon and he has talked to me about these out reach case managers that he has made use of, how do we make use of those? at recycling centers? i don't know, because we have not had what we call that deep dive conversation and that will get us to an answer, but we are

committed to being that convener with you, if you will come with us on that. and so in closing, i just want to thank you, thank you for listening and convening this, clearly, this is a difficult issue and clearly it is going to require all of those lists of people to come together. as a disclaimer here. i am not an expert in this issue, so i have with me, if you asked the questions, there is likely i will not know the answers so i have the colleagues here who have a deep history and understanding and i will probably defer to them. if you ask anything that i don't know the answer to. so thank you. >> and thank you, in your first two and a half weeks for being so open to the community and stake holder involvement in a solution and i really appreciate that. and i did want to ask a few questions, really quickly, so marina safeway had a briefly a reversed spending machine, do you know why that closed and how that was allowed to happen? >> and kevin, drew my expert on this will probably be the one

to help you understand. >> and thank you for so many years, mr. drew, also, on advocating for our communities. >> i am with the department of environment, the marina safeway through the actions of cal recycling when the exemption was lost through the loss of the webster street safeway or the california hyde store, closer, the marina safeway was required and their exempt was lifted and they attempted to use a reverse vending machine for six months, and they took it out because they did not like the clientele or the action that took place at the store with this machine. that is as much as i know. >> and then i have already exposed my bias of human beings and community recycling centers to be the solution, not auto maition and vending machines, could you talk about the expansion of the vending machines and how that compared

to the community recycling centers, there are a couple of people in the room who have long experience who will want to speak later and may want to add a little something, john, with the replanet and the next cycle and ed done who has done a lot of research, both on reverse spending machines in the past. they work in other places europe uses them, and the east coast of the united states uses them. i think that it is a matter of coming up with a proper plan for them. which really involves staff support. and you can't just put a machine out there and expect it to do the work. the staff either at the super market or a supporting recycling operator has to be there to service them. and to be there to see that they are operating properly and to solve the problems when there is a container that does not fit. and i think that they are part of a solution, but they are not a replacement for people, and they really just create, and should create some additional convenience when being open when there is not a