accomplish the further assurance of the public that the lazy will be enforced. what did the city attorney want to say something >> the deputy city attorney wanted to say there's a current action in the public code but it doesn't necessarily provide a board remedy as proposition j so any resident can file for an injunctive relieve for a proposed violation of the ordinances it has to be provided by the attorney of notice and there's not necessarily a guarantee of attorney's fees. >> so if we have enhancement in

there - >> exactly. >> okay as a procedural matter we're taking public comment and then going to the vote. okay >> is there a second to the vice chairs motion. >> second. >>. i'm bob i'm glad you're taking this clarifying action and i also want to point out in the various notices to the various workshops that ethnics has had i've not seen indication the public is notified it might be worth putting that in behold face willie brown can do his own right of action people with resources they don't need to go through your folks it would help

if the public know guess so that i wasn't clear we could bypass the agencies and go directly to the court that's something we need to know. thank you. >> just a to clarify the reference to prop jackson that was in the procedure that riders notice to the city attorney and a waiting and the law provide for a private right of action there's no mention of attorney's fees so this is discussing a boarder right of action. as prop j will it up later i want to say the judicial history on prop) is a bit convoluted and

some cities implemented it there were issues raised about first amendment rights but thank you t continuation a piece meal decision that doesn't decide everything we and i lewd more to concepts in it was the actual content. >> larry bush from the civil grand jury we point out that the f p pc and the city of los angeles has a right to attorney's fees we have drafted that. in terms of the prop j the reference is to the fact it was approved by i did voters over 80 percent of the vote it was overwhelmingly positive when there was a rewrite of the provisions in 2003, there was no

mention that the rewrite eliminated the right of action. >> as a people advocate i've expensed many - i have a lot of experience and some 20 or thirty years ago i remembered having an opportunity to question the heads of the departments from the board of supervisors as to how the conduct of their departments and it was certainly a experience that the citizens had a right to question not just the department heads or supervisors. but when the heads of the

departments were defending their budgets to the citizens i had a recent experience in the last year of trying out the process of complaints or to correct something wrong in the senior citizens center on the walls there are forms which you can make a complaint to an unidentified person or body. about things going wrong i've had acting head of the senior center on eight street about the one hundred or 2 hundred block and but i wanted to know who this goes to. because it can be somebody defending the person that is

complained about the person with with acting head and what when was would come into the dining room would insist i sit down at a table i want to see who is obey served and do you have a substitute for poker the chief found that a reasonable request this didn't also follow a menu that i have to sit down and justice get away from what we want to do and given a thirty day denial of service so i couldn't have lunch there because i didn't also sit down

instead of looking and seeing when i tried to make a complaint to the - to find out which office it goes to county agency i got a defensive reaction what who did you talk about to i'll talk to them first >> thank you, ma'am. >> what kind of of a process to do that again. >> thank you, ma'am appreciate it. >> commissioners ray open government. i wholly agree with the change that's been recommended i think the language there's never been an apparent problem i can point to my own case regarding the city librarian i used his office for two years to with hold

records that he had an responsibility to disclose under the sunshine act he didn't want to disclosure the economicenter interest under penalty of perjury he got nothing it took two years to take to the agency he used his position to deny us the openness to the records that denied and access to the law we didn't have the records to go to court. we're talking about an equal protection issue it's all well and good to talk about a damn yell steel about someone who last millions of dollars that he want to correct something unethnic california but what about the person the average person that only can go to the

task force and ask for the assistance where is there option. so, yes, i agree with the recommendation. basically, the ethnics law if they can't enforce it the afternoon person can and the - we put in a lot of effort and time and energy including going to the sunshine task force 5 times to get some of the records going to the city attorney's office twice with petitions both of which were denied he openly not limited to he withheld the records it is bizarre it says here imagining to our knowledge no one has inquired about this right. that's what i've been doing here for the last two years and

saying wait a minute. i'm entitled to those records then the city librarian is using his position to with hold him because i didn't want to expose himself as having lie down under oath and yet each time this commission voted to not violated even though he was found to having violated the task force on 5 separated occasions. you have to give the citizens the right to do something if you're not willing to do it and you can't stand in their way. >> welcome commissioner hur your i'll like to see the recommendation by the court.

i don't want to - i think you are going to strike the proposed recommendation. but the statement absent a problem with the status quo i believe the substance of the civil grand jury report is there is a problem with the status quo. so i would urge you to adapt the language of the grand jury report regarding 3 and not pass the proposed motion being discussed. thank you. >> the motion pending is to modify the finding number 3 and recommendation number 3 all in favor, say i. >> i.

>> opposed. hearing none that motion passes move on to finding 4 any commissioners recommendations >> yes. mr. chair just one a minor one as to language it's important in regards to the whole tenner of response it has to do with the second full paragraph from the end of the page we have the language the dock also notes that the commissioners have made progress in moving it's fooifg in the electronic database this is the responded of the commission to the grand jury. so i would strike the language that the director also notes and

instead put the commission notes that there's already been great progress in moving etc. >> it's a worthwhile changed. i'll propose we do four and five together >> i have the same response to some of the language in 5 the word very say recommendation 57 in our response the third full paragraph from the bottom at the end you have the same problem it size the commission and director note that the campaign i would strike the words the director the commission notes this is a response to the commission not the response of the executive director with with all respect

to mr. sinclair. the other thing i would mention in order to have a more civil tone to our response going on along with what i said at the beginning up under paragraph 3 on page 4 where we say disagree partially we say this assertion is not completely true i ask we use the term not completely accurate to say something it not tell you there's an implication the grand jury is being false and i think that would be unfortunate unfortunate for us to do so i ask that change. those are my observations as to

four and five >> thank you commissioner keane any other comments from the commissioners? i have a question about both of those. and i confess is made me i maybe deficit in my technical capacities but i find it surprisingly we can't find those searchable especially filed out electronically i'm not sure i follow the idea we're not going to do it because there's state recollections later on that may possibility focus how their researched so maybe some help would be appreciated >> shu a technical officer. so the form seven hundred a the form we reference here and the state law as recently passed

regulation that allows us to do the electronic filings. part of the regulations didn't address the actual formulate of the regulations. i think there's a benefit to having our data being in the same format as other cities jurisdictions so we go ahead and build a dabt then we have to go through and change how we're collecting the information. the state we know is working on the specifications so it's in our best interests to wait for the process to be finished >> so what's the format. >> there's two formats there's one controlled by net file we use to collect the information

and a format that collects the information in other jurisdictions. >> so what i was awe eluding to it would be in the best interest to wait for the site to invent the database so all the information will be recorded in the same manner. >> cost what do we think it's going to cost to make the data researchable. >> it won't be very expensive because the - every city that is using the file system is going to be interested in having this functionality. so generally features that are added to the system, you know, are shared by many different jurisdictions are not very expensive to develop it's features that are unique to san

francisco that are expensive to develop >> when. >> maybe by the tend end of the year then we'll precede. >> perhaps we could add to this recommendation we revisit it at the end of 2016 i think it's important i think the ability of the public to search and cross reference those and mr. matt you've done a good job and the more transparent the better. >> any other questions or comments from staff? public comment on 4r5i this is

arrest i'm going to talk about 4 and seven hundred to address some serious problems in the city are making problems worse. the city has participates in the toxic state of california against tobacco and has good for example, put in quotation marks has good uses from the sale of tobacco products. the people in the homeless shelters have been used as a village for the city's desire to get more and more money for the first 5 programs national anthem

the program for pregnant women and children up to 5 years old. they have about 87 state the state gets $0.02 and the city and county gets about one dollar gets maybe about $0.75 per cigarette package according to the health people in atlanta the costs of short end life executivecy and welfare costs from hospitals from cigarette smoking is high about 7 times as much as the county gets san francisco the city and county

from the sale of a package. the care of the local homeless corresponding committee in san francisco on the face of it requires the people unless it's a strong excuse who are on the commission to live and or be employed in san francisco. but for about 2, 4 year terms through the city of or county controller this position has begun to a person who lives in berkley and is employed by the children's hospital in oakland. and is h head of one of the numerous grants to the children's hospital there for

preliminary care of the person. and it's highly funded to her employer and she's been on the homeless coordinating committee in san francisco and the health department >> thank you, ma'am. >> appreciate our time is up. >> i'll finish a couple sentences. >> ma'am, there's a lot of people that want to talk on this issue. >> she was postponed. >> ma'am, i'm sorry to do this to you. >> we're going to cut you off now. >> people in the shelters.

>> (inaudible). >> ma'am. >> (inaudible). >> thank you, ma'am. >> ray for open government i support the change foot recommendation or is responded to the grand jury i commend sxhoourg ever putting a deadline seeing specific date on beginning 2015. the sunshine ordinance included a position that that mandated has neutron and computer systems were in the department an ability to have citizens to access public records i've argued this over a number of bodies from a statement you've repeating raised is economics if i can go on line to get

documents that are matter of public record it could save the staff time and they complain it tops time if i could print them at home it saves money. there are advantages ever having these things since is sunshine ordinance said over 12 years this should be the case and having them searchable is appropriate that way the utilization of the computers is maximum missed those things should be done a a long time go and put in a recommendation it's difficult otherwise, it will slip away.

and the bottom line is the citizens of the city don't think access to public records i'm going to by the labor this point you have city elected and appointed officials who will use their positions to with hold public records from the public because it disclosures their bad behavior and in some cases the city librarian prurgd himself for two years and during those two additional years he did it two more times and said he got nothing and had to come back. that if those records had been those online on the library commission website it's a matter of due process and equal access.

so i think it's appropriate this be looked at and be implemented and a date certain be included. >> welcome. commissioner hur. thank you >> i appreciate the discussion around the topic and appreciate the way you want to redefine it the points raised by mr. macy to understand what the form seven hundred is and it's in our response to give a little more flavor to what's happening. >> although i appreciate the

patience exemplified by the commission i want you to finish the recommendation go that the grand jury. it's not clear to me if any motion is being made open four and five so perhaps the clerk can summarize >> is there a motion? >> the motion was not made the motion that is intended is to modify four and five as proposed by commissioner keane and add a 2015 for the commission to revisit the issue in light of mr. macy's comments. 0 so my additional public comment all the issues by the staff be stricken and you can enact or not enact a motion

regarding four and five >> thank you. >> welcome commissioners. >> thank you. charles civil grand jury. in the introduction to the civil grand jury report state law requirement has to do with the each recommendation we must report that and number 3 the recommendation requires further analysis the additional study is needed that goes into the technical progress coming down the line but the grand jury expects a report within 6 months so you mentioned that timeframe and say specifically that particular timeframe 6 months rather than revisiting this in

2015 that's too vague and i'll call our tension to the last line on page 3 this recommendation is with the ethics commission the grand juror intend that the payment should be filed along with the other forms for the up to this time forms have important as seven hundred is. thank you >> is there a motion to adapt the changes to finding and recommendations four and five as proposed by commissioner keane and add that the ethics commission will revisit both issues by february 2015 to address the issues raised by mr. mazda i didn't. >> so so moved.

all in favor, say i. i >> opposed. the motion passes unanimously. any comments or changes to the finding and recommendations in number 6? any changes to the finding or repgsdz in 7? oh, commissioner keane asia to 7 mr. chair, i would propose that were it is the grand jury is asking us to we provide written information as does every other city department in