this permit. anyway, thank you >> thank you. further comments from the commissioners >> all in favor of adapting 28 and amended. >> i. opposed. hearing none that passes. finding 29 comments from the commissioners? i would invite someone from the grand jury to speak on this one.

i'm worried we're talking past each other between the recommendation and the proposed recommendation >> certainly. as we look to the number of the ethnics laws and campaign laws and things of that nature we thought about how we terminator them and think about how their trermentd we often look to the statements of purpose that were put into the laws and things to e things of that nature. proposal j had this concept of reich what people, you know, in terms of if someone was getting a public benefit from the city and this could be a zoning change or a contract, it could

be a lot of things we're restricted from giving campaign donations to officials that decide on that benefit. so it was an interesting campfire concept from an implementation standpoint but there were a number the recommendations we listed them in the report. i'm trying to find the right place i know we have a whole thing >> on 7 and 27. >> 78 you have the actual ballot measure on 78. we have a finding that d disposition of interests it used

by the public officials for their control. such assets should be used or arranged striking on the merits for the public eir respective of the public officials. they make a similar finding the sale and lease of property and cable and trash hauling and others franchises. they made it clear there's a compelling state interest in reducing the corruption influence of the gifts and perspective campaign positions on the public officials and franchises. the disposition of public funds. the people that compensate the

public officials september favors no gifts or promised employment or things should be received from such a decision for a reasonable periods as provided here in. you can go through the definitions and we're not saying gee you should go and enact that right now. but i think those finding and declarations are, you know, a useful kind of decision thing to think about the purposes of the laws in general. and how you know the laws don't match up with the zoning changes and things like that that are falling outside the government ethnics laws right now.

prop j dealt with a small class of elected officials in high government employees and didn't reach to the levels of people have to file form seven hundred right now. so we're not saying guarantee this is to be totally reimpacted but it needs more public discussion and worth we visiting and so i'm clear >> maybe i had a hard time following this what is missing from e you think we should take from j. >> over e was a funny thing. but can you answer i'm sorry we're running out of times what specifically is in j you want that's not in e >> oh, the cow rephrase that. >> what is not in e that is in j that you think we should

implement? >> all the finding. all the findings. >> all the perspective findings and declaration of purpose were basically removed. and the concept of a public benefit was basically taken away. the proposal e has kind of a complicat complicated story there was sort of an acting clause that repealed thank you >> okay. thank you. >> i'll make this short larry bush from the civil grand jury

some of the things would include zoning changes that bend a particular developer and included leases so for example, when pg&e took a lease over some waived land that was considered not to be a contract therefore there was no prohibition on pg&e making contributions to the mayor who signed the lease. it also includes things like gifts of travel money to underwrite someone to stay in luxury hotels and flying first class and didn't include payment you receive a benefit because you get a company to make a contribution to a favorite charity or purpose and that contributor receives a major

benefit like kilroy getting a benefit to the america's cup and getting kickbacks. there are a variety of things that include a private right of actions with penalties and so forth. i'll point out while this response says this was approved by so many members of the board and the commission that commissioners have no recollection there's no reference in prop e that says what's being taken out it's outlined in the civil grand jury report. we have a had r a proposal to change the commission to adapt its own rules on political consulate you say a unanimous vote from the board to put it on the ballet and once it was explained to them some of them

pulled their endorsements and the voters defeated it >> so the fact you've listed a group of people speaks to the fact that 2003 was not a good year to pay attention. >> i guess my concern with our response is that while i agree it's true that it probably is fruit also to try to readapt proposition j as written i believe we should look at what was in prop j and not in e and see if any makes sense to us. >> i guess question for the staff what's the downside of doing that or is that already addressed from findings one through 28? >> i think the major

outstanding issue i guess is that in its form that it is in the los angeles superior court said it was unconstitutionally board no one took the challenge further so that's the one legal precedent we have to go on. >> we're not talking abouty adapting it but looking at if there's anything that is useful for san francisco that would be draft to be not unconstitutional and is that - or have we tried that. >> not that i'm aware of. >> is there any reason not to do it heights not rhetorical. >> there's no reason not to look at prop j it does speak to

something that prop a e was passed and prop j passed it is a bit odd going back 10 years to revisit the issue i certainly wouldn't want- i think it would be advisable to look at that but in terms of what is effective to our campaign lobbying laws not to limit ourselves quite frankly campaign laws have changed and supreme court rulings have changed. i certainly know t think it is great to inform our decision making but not limited to prop j itself that's my $0.02 and commissioner keane >> we wouldn't have to limit ourselves i propose for some future meeting we put on the

agenda our analysis of prop j and prop e and what was lost from j that was 92 not recess recollected from prop e and whether or not we want to go forward and perhaps use our own power of this commission putting something on the ballot relating to those measures in prop j that were resolute or lost because of the supreme court decision in los angeles and wanting to go forward with those. >> and if perhaps the only amendment if the staff knows this should be part of a larger decision. >> sure feel free the sky is

the limit and. is there a second to that motion this is >> second. >> any is there any additional public comment all in favor. >> i. >> i. >> opposed. hearing none i think it's it is there anything else we need to do >> i want to say a quick comment again, i want to commend the civil grand jury on the work and it gives us a lot to think and talk about. and at the same time i want to be mindful we've created work for our staff as well. and i think this is will important to create i'm adding for work kind of a dashboard of what we needing mediate in terms

of recommendations today, we're talking about larger projects it's been peppered with human resources and i want to have a clear exception and revisit is and prioritize the work. again, it's easy to say we should take those on but if you don't prioritize them and look at them reasonably it wouldn't get done >> commissioner keane. >> i want to put in the form of a motion we want to thank the grand jury and commend them for the great and hard working folks they've helped us and educated us and moved us i know quite positively in our work and we owe them a great dei'd put thatn

the form of a motion. >> public comment. >> all in favor that passes. >> i want to thank you and the staff we've done look good things as a commission ii do think that some of our disclosure and our website are some of the best around and some of our investigative work is good we can do better and i thank the civil grand jury for helping us to figure out that out i know we have a great staff that is going to do a good job. unless there's anything further we're adjourned >> oh, motion to adjourn.

>> public comment? adjourned >> i love teaching. it is such an exhilarating experience when people began to feel their own creativity. >> this really is a place where all people can come and take a class and fill part of the community. this is very enriching as an artist. a lot of folks take these classes and take their digital imagery and turn it into

negatives. >> there are not many black and white darkrooms available anymore. that is a really big draw. >> this is a signature piece. this is the bill largest darkroom in the u.s.. >> there are a lot of people that want to get into that dark room. >> i think it is the heart of this place. you feel it when you come in. >> the people who just started taking pictures, so this is really an intersection for many generations of photographers and this is a great place to learn because if you need people from different areas and also everyone who works here is

working in photography. >> we get to build the community here. this is different. first of all, this is a great location. it is in a less-populated area. >> of lot of people come here just so that they can participate in this program. it is a great opportunity for people who have a little bit of photographic experience. the people have a lot, they can really come together and share a

love and a passion. >> we offer everything from traditional black and white darkrooms to learning how to process your first roll of film. we offer classes and workshops in digital camera, digital printing. we offer classes basically in the shooting, ton the town at night, treasure island. there is a way for the programs exploring everyone who would like to spend the day on this program. >> hello, my name is jennifer. >> my name is simone. we are going on a field trip to take pictures up the hill. >> c'mon, c'mon, c'mon.

>> actually, i have been here a lot. i have never looked closely enough to see everything. now, i get to take pictures. >> we want to try to get them to be more creative with it. we let them to be free with them but at the same time, we give them a little bit of direction. >> you can focus in here. >> that was cool. >> if you see that? >> behind the city, behind the houses, behind those hills. the see any more hills? >> these kids are wonderful. they get to explore, they get to

see different things. >> we let them explore a little bit. they get their best. if their parents ever ask, we can learn -- they can say that they learned about the depth of field or the rule of thirds or that the shadows can give a good contrast. some of the things they come up with are fantastic. that is what we're trying to encourage. these kids can bring up the creativity and also the love for photography. >> a lot of people come into my classes and they don't feel like they really are creative and through the process of working and showing them and giving them some tips and ideas.

>> this is kind of the best kept secret. you should come on and take a class. we have orientations on most saturdays. this is a really wonderful location and is the real jewel to the community. >> ready to develop your photography skills? the harvey milk photo center focuses on adult classes. and saturday workshops expose youth and adults to photography classes.