should reflect the chair is in charge >> i express any sincere apologizes to my fellow commissioners, i miss calendared it was k4r5ur7b9d when i was out of the country my sincere apologizes and i'll get caught up and will be here for the tak. >> we're back in session regarding the grand jury report. when we took the break were were on finding number 3.

commissioners any comments >> yes. mr. chair this is another one i don't understand why we're answering it is way we're answering it i would change to we agree a broad citizens right to enforce those lose will make sure the laws are enforced this is an apple pie motherhood type of statement we disagree that's our answer why do we disagree that with a broader citizens statement that the laws will be enforced any kind of broadening of the power to enforce ethnical aforementioned in our socket to the good whether by a right of

action to citizens or anyone we should agree. the recommendation that this can be done by the board of supervisors enacting a particular version that gives the folks the right like a private attorney general action to enforce the award of attorney's fees that's an incentive for citizens to help out in ethnical matters and if the jury has found that is good and that the board of supervisors should be asked to do that i think we should join in with them >> other comments in the commissioners? >> there's some legal wasn't

proposition j struck down by the court and there's a question of whether or not that clause was controlling. >> you're right we should take out as provided as was provided by proposition j it sets the thing up for an attack in regard to the los angeles court decision 14 or fierceness year ago bused the general notation we should agree with them that as to that finding that apple pie and motherhood finding and agree that the board of supervisors should attempt to set up something in corners with that citizens right of action. i'm not all that converging with

the particular reasons why j was struck down because of having something like that or other things in that but tang taking out the language that we're you're going prop j as part of the solution we ought to agree with that >> i think what the court held is that the sharing of penalties with the filer may not be legal. i know there are chisel blowers that provide those kinds of things but anyway, when you say asking the board of supervisors to enhance a right of of action

is there a general right of action at the present time for someone unless they she show personal injury >> i have no idea but if the board of supervisors were to see fit to take a shot anothers passing something like this and it were to go through the courts again maybe it will be upheld. prop j was struck down by a district court or a lower court in los angeles about 14 or 15 years but was never really contested beyond that so we're not talking about prop j distribution one that was done by the u.s. superior court >> may i make a suggestion i agree with commissioner keane that the portion of finding 3 that basically says we should do

with whatever we can to enforce the ethnics laws should be agreed whether this is a right of a citizens action that needs for analysis and really is something the board needs to do not the commission we agree to the extent we should be doing everything we can to provide the assurance to the public that the ethnics laws will be enforced but we need more analysis to propose a citizens right of action for civics laws and how specifically that are enacted. >> i'll propose - i'm sorry. i said prosper our response to findings 3 and recommendation 3 is that we agree with the

finding and this the ethics commission will investigate whether or not it should make a recommendation to the board of supervisors that it enhances citizens right of action. that would be consistent with the complaint that is being made we should be more pro-active and take on sort of the policy thing. but i agree with the chair we don't have enough real information about what a private right of action entails but we could put it on the agenda as something we should investigate and determine whether that is an

effective mechanism >> that's fine i'll accept that. >> any other comments on finding 3 or recommendation 3? >> so that language then that disagree and also the language at the top of page 3 that would that should go out. >> i think for the recommendation 3 we would say that the per the vice chair that we need to look at whether enhancing the citizens right of action would be the proper mechanism for the enhancement of the ethnics law if so we'll make a recommendation to the board. >> specifically mr., we have to take out the proposed language for example, at the top of page 3 the action of the status quo

will not be implemented. >> the whole recommendation will have to change. >> my recommendation is not to increase recommendation 3 the commission will investigate to determine whether or not the enhancement of a private citizens right of action would accomplish the further assurance of the public that the lazy will be enforced. what did the city attorney want to say something >> the deputy city attorney wanted to say there's a current

action in the public code but it doesn't necessarily provide a board remedy as proposition j so any resident can file for an injunctive relieve for a proposed violation of the ordinances it has to be provided by the attorney of notice and there's not necessarily a guarantee of attorney's fees. >> so if we have enhancement in there - >> exactly. >> okay as a procedural matter we're taking public comment and then going to the vote. okay >> is there a second to the vice chairs motion. >> second. >>. i'm bob i'm glad you're taking this clarifying action and i also want to point out in the various notices to the various

workshops that ethnics has had i've not seen indication the public is notified it might be worth putting that in behold face willie brown can do his own right of action people with resources they don't need to go through your folks it would help if the public know guess so that i wasn't clear we could bypass the agencies and go directly to the court that's something we need to know. thank you. >> just a to clarify the reference to prop jackson that was in the procedure that riders

notice to the city attorney and a waiting and the law provide for a private right of action there's no mention of attorney's fees so this is discussing a boarder right of action. as prop j will it up later i want to say the judicial history on prop) is a bit convoluted and some cities implemented it there were issues raised about first amendment rights but thank you t continuation a piece meal decision that doesn't decide everything we and i lewd more to concepts in it was the actual content. >> larry bush from the civil

grand jury we point out that the f p pc and the city of los angeles has a right to attorney's fees we have drafted that. in terms of the prop j the reference is to the fact it was approved by i did voters over 80 percent of the vote it was overwhelmingly positive when there was a rewrite of the provisions in 2003, there was no mention that the rewrite eliminated the right of action. >> as a people advocate i've expensed many - i have a lot of experience and some 20 or thirty years ago i remembered having an

opportunity to question the heads of the departments from the board of supervisors as to how the conduct of their departments and it was certainly a experience that the citizens had a right to question not just the department heads or supervisors. but when the heads of the departments were defending their budgets to the citizens i had a recent experience in the last year of trying out the process of complaints or to correct something wrong in the senior citizens center on the walls there are forms which you can make a complaint to an

unidentified person or body. about things going wrong i've had acting head of the senior center on eight street about the one hundred or 2 hundred block and but i wanted to know who this goes to. because it can be somebody defending the person that is complained about the person with with acting head and what when was would come into the dining room would insist i sit down at a table i want to see who is obey served and do you have a substitute for poker the chief found that a reasonable request

this didn't also follow a menu that i have to sit down and justice get away from what we want to do and given a thirty day denial of service so i couldn't have lunch there because i didn't also sit down instead of looking and seeing when i tried to make a complaint to the - to find out which office it goes to county agency i got a defensive reaction what who did you talk about to i'll talk to them first >> thank you, ma'am. >> what kind of of a process to do that again. >> thank you, ma'am appreciate

it. >> commissioners ray open government. i wholly agree with the change that's been recommended i think the language there's never been an apparent problem i can point to my own case regarding the city librarian i used his office for two years to with hold records that he had an responsibility to disclose under the sunshine act he didn't want to disclosure the economicenter interest under penalty of perjury he got nothing it took two years to take to the agency he used his position to deny us the openness to the records that denied and access to the law we

didn't have the records to go to court. we're talking about an equal protection issue it's all well and good to talk about a damn yell steel about someone who last millions of dollars that he want to correct something unethnic california but what about the person the average person that only can go to the task force and ask for the assistance where is there option. so, yes, i agree with the recommendation. basically, the ethnics law if they can't enforce it the afternoon person can and the - we put in a lot of effort and time and energy including going to the sunshine task force 5 times to get some of the records

going to the city attorney's office twice with petitions both of which were denied he openly not limited to he withheld the records it is bizarre it says here imagining to our knowledge no one has inquired about this right. that's what i've been doing here for the last two years and saying wait a minute. i'm entitled to those records then the city librarian is using his position to with hold him because i didn't want to expose himself as having lie down under oath and yet each time this commission voted to not violated even though he was found to having violated the task force on 5 separated occasions. you have to give the citizens

the right to do something if you're not willing to do it and you can't stand in their way. >> welcome commissioner hur your i'll like to see the recommendation by the court. i don't want to - i think you are going to strike the proposed recommendation. but the statement absent a problem with the status quo i believe the substance of the civil grand jury report is there is a problem with the status quo. so i would urge you to adapt the

language of the grand jury report regarding 3 and not pass the proposed motion being discussed. thank you. >> the motion pending is to modify the finding number 3 and recommendation number 3 all in favor, say i. >> i. >> opposed. hearing none that motion passes move on to finding 4 any commissioners recommendations >> yes. mr. chair just one a minor one as to language it's important in regards to the whole tenner of response it has to do with the second full paragraph from the end of the page we have the language the

dock also notes that the commissioners have made progress in moving it's fooifg in the electronic database this is the responded of the commission to the grand jury. so i would strike the language that the director also notes and instead put the commission notes that there's already been great progress in moving etc. >> it's a worthwhile changed. i'll propose we do four and five together >> i have the same response to some of the language in 5 the

word very say recommendation 57 in our response the third full paragraph from the bottom at the end you have the same problem it size the commission and director note that the campaign i would strike the words the director the commission notes this is a response to the commission not the response of the executive director with with all respect to mr. sinclair. the other thing i would mention in order to have a more civil tone to our response going on along with what i said at the beginning up under paragraph 3 on page 4 where we say disagree partially we say this assertion

is not completely true i ask we use the term not completely accurate to say something it not tell you there's an implication the grand jury is being false and i think that would be unfortunate unfortunate for us to do so i ask that change. those are my observations as to four and five >> thank you commissioner keane any other comments from the commissioners? i have a question about both of those. and i confess is made me i maybe deficit in my technical capacities but i find it surprisingly we can't find those searchable especially filed out electronically i'm not sure i follow the idea we're not going

to do it because there's state recollections later on that may possibility focus how their researched so maybe some help would be appreciated >> shu a technical officer. so the form seven hundred a the form we reference here and the state law as recently passed regulation that allows us to do the electronic filings. part of the regulations didn't address the actual formulate of the regulations. i think there's a benefit to having our data being in the same format as other cities jurisdictions so we go ahead and build a dabt then we have to go

through and change how we're collecting the information. the state we know is working on the specifications so it's in our best interests to wait for the process to be finished >> so what's the format. >> there's two formats there's one controlled by net file we use to collect the information and a format that collects the information in other jurisdictions. >> so what i was awe eluding to it would be in the best interest to wait for the site to invent the database so all the information will be recorded in the same manner. >> cost what do we think it's going to cost to make the data

researchable. >> it won't be very expensive because the - every city that is using the file system is going to be interested in having this functionality. so generally features that are added to the system, you know, are shared by many different jurisdictions are not very expensive to develop it's features that are unique to san francisco that are expensive to develop >> when. >> maybe by the tend end of the year then we'll precede. >> perhaps we could add to this recommendation we revisit it at the end of 2016 i think it's important i think the ability of

the public to search and cross reference those and mr. matt you've done a good job and the more transparent the better. >> any other questions or comments from staff? public comment on 4r5i this is arrest i'm going to talk about 4 and seven hundred to address some serious problems in the city are making problems worse. the city has participates in the toxic state of california against tobacco and has good for

example, put in quotation marks has good uses from the sale of tobacco products. the people in the homeless shelters have been used as a village for the city's desire to get more and more money for the first 5 programs national anthem the program for pregnant women and children up to 5 years old. they have about 87 state the state gets $0.02 and the city and county gets about one dollar gets maybe about $0.75 per cigarette package according to

the health people in atlanta the costs of short end life executivecy and welfare costs from hospitals from cigarette smoking is high about 7 times as much as the county gets san francisco the city and county from the sale of a package. the care of the local homeless corresponding committee in san francisco on the face of it requires the people unless it's a strong excuse who are on the commission to live and or be employed in san francisco. but for about