no problem looking at local golfs can specify you have to disclose 5 thousand or 10 thousands and also disclose whether or not they have city policies this is incredible not only in san francisco. >> okay. thank you mr. bush and commissioner keane you want to say something about 17. >> yes. mr. chair. in regard to public finding 17 where the recommendation is where the official calendars prepared under the sunshine ordinance and convert them and

post them o'ly ago with the recommendation that is just too big a task for us to do with every department and that for us to do it and the city attorney and the ethics commission to insure that, however, it is a good idea that those all of the departments do collect their official calendar and convert them to electronic form and put them online. with regards to the recommendation 17 a i would change that elite leave advertise the fact we have the resources we don't have the resources other priorities are president all right. but i would say we recommend to all departments that they did noiths

recommendations to all departments they should collect their official calendar preparing under the sunshine ordinance and convert them to electronic and post them themselves. i think it's a good idea this material be out there to the public and be there out in electronic form and the departments should do it, it's only our recommendation but it's a good suggestion by the grand jury. and i think we should recommend that to all the departments >> any other comments from the commissioners. >> is there a motion. >> yeah. i move federal and state that the ethics commission recommend to all city departments very collect their

official calendared prepared if under the sunshine ordinance my love waits there in san francisco and convert them electronically and post them on line. >> is there a second. >> second. >> public comment? >> ray for open government. i don't know anyone that used a paper appointment everybody does everything tyrone so we're not talking about - some people do still but when it comes to city offices i do think they're using a paper dairy they call up their boss and say oh, i have an appointment time or sending him an e-mail i don't think we're talking about anything a brown burden to take what they're already doing and putting it online for people to see it.

and that's all it's been recommending here recommended to the city department that that people have an interest in the calendar of the department heads and it would be behove and show a spirit of openness to put those out without having people to beg for them and unfortunately people if they want to get information they have to go to the department the department reviews to give it to them and we go through the instant motion. so calendar like it or not are public records. i shall be able to know what 31 my representative or my city employee spends their time i should know who has access to them and their demonstrated by calendar where this it's i hits

the fan is around election time i'll give the perfect example sfgovtv met about 5 hundred and 7 lobbyists over a certain period i read that and said 5 hundred and 7 it's a lot of lobbyists and how hard supervisor david campos had to fight to get that information from supervisor chiu's office i know how hard i would have to fight i'd fight very hard and not get it until after the election. they'll all that's been recommend in this case is i couldn't the departments to simply faxing take you know what they have available so far as the self-employed e schedule and post it for on the members of the public. that again cuts down on the workload no more requests to get

appointment books. i've said this to the police commission all those complaint you spent in resources compiling with the records request would go away. >> all in favor of the motion proposing amendments. >> i. >> i. >> opposed. hearing none that passes unanimously. let's see take 18 and 19 together >> you have to respond to 19. okay. does anybody are comments on 18? 19? >> yes. >> commissioner keane. in regards to number 19 i don't have any quarrel it should be

implemented the recommendation of the grand jury should be pledged and will be implemented, however, just as a point of information and since we have the members of the grand jury here i do want to ask about the assertion or the allegation in 19 in at least one instance the ethics commission inappropriately interpreted to grant a restriction waiver i made that assertion there's language but united states staff there's a disagreement what are you, you talking about >> the woman that negotiated the arrangements on behalf of the city for the benefits of the america's cup was granted a waiver from posted employment restrictions to work in a leadership position for

america's cup. >> and . >> on grounds it would be - it was like an important career movement that she would not be able to take this was also a situation where a number of the benefits for america's cup were being negotiated with rec and park and the chair of the rec and park commission was chairing the america's cup committee and asked for this waiver. >> this is something that commission did. >> this commission granted the waiver. >> at the hearing. >> at a hearing from the standpoint under the circumstances that's no good. >> thanks for that.

>> finding 20. finding 21? >> commissioner andrews. >> can we go back to 20. i was wondering in recommendation 20 b in the last sentence even if we've made the case for why we're not implementing it says firefighter there's no mechanism in the sunshine ordinance to do this do we need to say that or do we stand strong on the ethics commission didn't agree with the finding and believes this is in the public best interest to have the commission investigate and

hear the sunshine referrals and complaints >> do we need further there is no mechanism are resignaling if there were a mechanism we'll entertain it. >> i would say as a second reason why it is not being implemented. >> okay. >> finding 21. >> mr. chair. >> commissioner keane. >> there's one to put in in parallel with the language on page 14 up at the top on the first full paragraph the sentence where it says the director notes i would change

that to the commission notes. >> anything else on 21? i had one comment i'm a little bit uncomfortable with a response to finding 21 b in that i think it's too broad for us to say there's no basis for the finding how the condition is preserved. i'm not sure how to respond to that. i mean other people what weigh in on how we're conceived i'm not sure we can agree we're preserved in the way that the grand jury has suggested.

i would be more comfortable removing that second sentence >> i agree you i agree. >> is there a motion to make the changes as proposed for vblth 21. >> i'll move mr. chair. >> second. >> second. >> public comment there sorry finding and recommendation 21. >> yes. i'd like to say to comment on 20 b and 21. boss of those are designed to sort of clarify your own workload and i'm surprised you're not going to entertain it in the hearing officer on the sunshine ordinance matters ii think you're getting case records that are debar bewilder

and you've spent a lot of time going through those the ordinance said almost nothing about procedure so there's a lot of flexibility not ordinance if you wanted to go and attempt to go down the routed as far as secretary for the commission it didn't have to be a full-time position we spoke about a sharing of the task force i know there's a part time secretary for the board of elections in the a civil service sort pacific ocean position a professional position but didn't have to be a full-time position paid for by you it was carefully written to not be a full-time position so please be advised >> can you elaborate on the difference between a commission

secretary and the executive director this is how do you see them operating differently. >> a commission secretary is all about helping the commission operate through it's meetings. it's not about making any policy decisions. the executive director has a lot of policy administrator responsibilities that are separate prosecute from what the commission does. the executive secretary gets the agenda together and the materials together appropriate for the commissioners making sure the hearing rooms are in place and getting the minutes drafted and run did i staff sea run by the commission dealing with outside people things of that nature >> any further questions or comments for the dimensions.

>> i wanted to clarify so you're the executive director but who actually does that in the office. >> i do. >> you do all of that. >> yes. >> ray san francisco open government i would actually think that having secretary who would schedule those things would be an appropriate thing because of my own particular position because the last time i had a meeting and the hearing was held after i left the country and i think this was done intentionally and there is a clear conflict of interest between a person's scheduling things and having a personal ax

to grind i think that someone told the ethics commission i was out you have town the dates and it got referred and oddly enough it sat fore 8 months and all of a sudden two days after it's referred over it is heard before i get back i don't believe that was just a coincidence and i don't believe the disingenuous comment about the executive director i was surprised mr. 0 hearts didn't show up mr. hearts also shows up for any complaint it files i shows up for the hearing that are appropriate. and i think in some cases those things are scheduled in such a way to prospective a person from

being able to come and receive due process of law. i'll be honest i think my rights were violated by this commission by the executive director by announcing that the day i left and having the hearing the day before i got back and making no attempt to determine whether or not i received notice simply relying on the fact we sent notice but i didn't receive the notice. i think having a separate person to schedule and let people know what is going on separate from the staff who has a personal interest in making recommendations about what this commission should decide is a very, very important thing. it needs to be done so there's no perception as i have that the

game was rigged. i've said it before and i'll say it again, it was done intentionally with the purpose of mr. hearts keeps coming here saying things we don't like if we can schedule this while he's out of country it will be good. >> all in favor with 21. >> one thing on 21 mr. chair. on page 14 where it says recommendation 21 the language there in the exactly or the third sentence where it says the director notes it should be the

commission notes. >> right that was part. >> that was already done. >> i'm sorry. i'm getting punchy. >> that passes can we take 22 and 23 together. any comments from the commissioners? >> mr. chair yes in regard to page 15 where we have recommendation 23 the parallel language the ethics commission and take out the language and the director the ethics commission is willing to discuss. >> i also had a comment on 22. i would change this to might be or may not be implemented. i think the last sentence should

also be moved up after that so that it says the commission will use the money as an at needed basis we should do that to act more efficiently and act on business for expeditiously. i think the point that was included? memo is valid with the 5 member board it's sometimes less necessary but that doesn't mean there won't be instances we can't use subcommittees. any further comments on 21 or 22 >> i have a question. >> commissioner hayon. >> question about committees are we talking about committees topping made up of commissioners. >> yes. >> or could we appoint other people to members of those committees.

>> i don't believe so. >> because we're a small commission we're limited in how often we can meet with one other and when we can meet with on other because of the brown act and the other sunshine ordinances so i i don't know how we would easily implement a committee structure given there are only 5 people that on the commission if anyone has thoughts i'd like to hear them. >> we'll take opinion. >> you said. >> we'll take public comment but while we're doing 22 does anyone have anything for 23. >> yes. on page 167 the first

full sentence the ethics commission hass and the director take out the words and the director and put in the ethics commission is will. >> okay. >> i also wanted to delete the sentence this is exaggerated from finding 23. commissioner andrews sorry >> so we have here in the finding that it's say conflicts every risen repeating not a number but in the finding response we say that we've done this 3 times. does the civil grand jury agree that repeating 3 times did you come up with that same number as well or was there a number that was greater than 3 that drove this finding >> i didn't have a number but

during the last mayoral race the city attorney executed himself from quite a few meetings their might have been 3 matters but we realized there's a lot of lawyers sitting on this commission but in terms of, you know, council sitting out in the well, i think there's been times you haven't had council. and at times there are issues where you're looking at city agencies and city attorneys representing the city agencies as well it gets tricky for everyone involved at the same time the charter says the city attorney will be your attorney and the chapter sets up council

so there's no quick action but it's worthy of exploration and in terms of some of other cities we've talked to one has outside council and is happy with it >> any other comments from the commissioners? public comment on 22 and 23 >> commissioners ray heart from san francisco open government. to the commissioner hayons concern about establishing committee i don't hear people talking about a committee meeting that has to meet my love waits there in san francisco it is an appropriate rules of order to have temporary committees to identify a problem and say gee it's hard for us 5

to get together and come back to us with a recommendation it's the same thing similarity to having a hearing officer the hoff doesn't necessarily have to be a separate person for example, the police commission the hoffs are the police members it's one of the members are appointed to be did hearing officer they come back and report to the full police commission so you can have your cake and eat it, too and really it comes down to some of the things if you have a subcommittee that could deal with certain things not requiring 5 of you to get together and they could arrange their schedule to meet. again those things are not

difficult to do if you really want to achieve a purpose but if i simply start out with the idea of setting up a mechanism and we have so many restrictions on our time it is going to be impossible - it is kayak of like heinecke i didn't philippines and the sky is falling pr i agree with commissioner hayon. want to appoint a committee and come back and report to the if you commission it's a great way of handling it >> all in favor the changes proposed for recommendation 23 and 22. i >> i. >> opposed. hearing none. passes. i would say if possible to take

24, 45 e 25 and 26 together is there an objection in the 5 e25 an objection in the commission? commissioner keane >> yes. mr. chair for the language on page 16 recommendation 25 in the middle of the paragraph the director notes i'd change that to the commission notes. >> anything else? i would - i have a couple of amendments on 24 on the recommendation it is sort of

seems like it's not responding to the recommendation i mean that be directed to the mayor and the board of supervisors if that he direct it to the to court we should provide it to them but it is nonresponsive as written in my view. i would propose an amendment in the mayor or board makes a request i ask we comply with it. on 25 the recommendation i mean, i think to see what commissioner keanes comments that is sort of apple pie here, of course, if we had the resources shouldn't we

do the things that be suggested in recommendation 25? and so i would change the recommendation to say provide with sufficient resources the commission could and would do the work - do more work as indicated by the findings of something to the effect. any comments from the commissioners? is there a motion to amend 24, 25 as proposed by commissioner keane and commissioner hur? >> yes. so moved. >> second. >> second.

public comment? >> a couple of comments on 24 t it is where the grand jury made a recommendation go you should be doing an annual report to the board of supervisors. i want to talk about that part. remember commissioner keane talked about it earlier you're also kind of the example of what should be happening in showing what good government it ethnics is incredibly important to the citizens they don't get a chance to hear the represents voted often and on the state and local level the citizens don't get any kind of report on what that means if >> saying let the board of supervisors excuse and we will give a report remember it's a in