>> (inaudible). >> ma'am. >> (inaudible). >> thank you, ma'am. >> ray for open government i support the change foot recommendation or is responded to the grand jury i commend sxhoourg ever putting a deadline seeing specific date on beginning 2015. the sunshine ordinance included a position that that mandated has neutron and computer systems were in the department an ability to have citizens to access public records i've argued this over a number of

bodies from a statement you've repeating raised is economics if i can go on line to get documents that are matter of public record it could save the staff time and they complain it tops time if i could print them at home it saves money. there are advantages ever having these things since is sunshine ordinance said over 12 years this should be the case and having them searchable is appropriate that way the utilization of the computers is maximum missed those things should be done a a long time go

and put in a recommendation it's difficult otherwise, it will slip away. and the bottom line is the citizens of the city don't think access to public records i'm going to by the labor this point you have city elected and appointed officials who will use their positions to with hold public records from the public because it disclosures their bad behavior and in some cases the city librarian prurgd himself for two years and during those two additional years he did it two more times and said he got nothing and had to come back. that if those records had been those online on the library

commission website it's a matter of due process and equal access. so i think it's appropriate this be looked at and be implemented and a date certain be included. >> welcome. commissioner hur. thank you >> i appreciate the discussion around the topic and appreciate the way you want to redefine it the points raised by mr. macy to understand what the form seven hundred is and it's in our response to give a little more flavor to what's happening.

>> although i appreciate the patience exemplified by the commission i want you to finish the recommendation go that the grand jury. it's not clear to me if any motion is being made open four and five so perhaps the clerk can summarize >> is there a motion? >> the motion was not made the motion that is intended is to modify four and five as proposed by commissioner keane and add a 2015 for the commission to revisit the issue in light of mr. macy's comments. 0 so my additional public comment all the issues by the

staff be stricken and you can enact or not enact a motion regarding four and five >> thank you. >> welcome commissioners. >> thank you. charles civil grand jury. in the introduction to the civil grand jury report state law requirement has to do with the each recommendation we must report that and number 3 the recommendation requires further analysis the additional study is needed that goes into the technical progress coming down the line but the grand jury expects a report within 6 months so you mentioned that timeframe

and say specifically that particular timeframe 6 months rather than revisiting this in 2015 that's too vague and i'll call our tension to the last line on page 3 this recommendation is with the ethics commission the grand juror intend that the payment should be filed along with the other forms for the up to this time forms have important as seven hundred is. thank you >> is there a motion to adapt the changes to finding and recommendations four and five as proposed by commissioner keane and add that the ethics commission will revisit both issues by february 2015 to

address the issues raised by mr. mazda i didn't. >> so so moved. all in favor, say i. i >> opposed. the motion passes unanimously. any comments or changes to the finding and recommendations in number 6? any changes to the finding or repgsdz in 7? oh, commissioner keane asia to 7 mr. chair, i would propose that were it is the grand jury is asking us to we provide written

information as does every other city department in all of the other major languages that is also done by other city departments in the draft proposal we disagree and will not do this it is an unwanted search and been determined the demands for such services is zero pressor i find that had a right to building in the city of san francisco where every other city department we're told provides those information we're saying in terms of what we're doing what we're doing is

insignificant and people speaking other languages don't connect about it we should provide the information in those languages. i would change our recommendation that the ethics commission shall make the materials available in other languages as in other city departments. >> other commissions from the commissioners. i did have questions as well. recommendation 7 in particular what the form is that the demand is zero? there's 3 different approaches that each agency can use that the city requires looking at whether there have been requests

for bilingual languages is one of them i'm sorry i can't recall the 80 other two but in the case of the 2 years we've done the analysis and not had a request for translations and we have staff currently i think we have 7 languages represented on the staff if people need live bilingual or interpretative services. but in terms of the demand it has not yet existed >> and what is the cost for making those guides available in the major languages represented. >> i don't know it will be

expensive. >> yes. >> i'm not sorry commissioner it will be expensive. >> there is 4 languages we will address if we were to set out to do this. >> commissioner andrews. >> yeah. i mean that one is i'm troubled with this one i'm reminded of this quote better to have and not need than to need and not have. i'm not sure again because a need hadn't been identified it still is not the right thing to do. mr. taylor since other city departments have them whether or

not people take advantage of them. i certainly don't fully agree with the last statement it won't be a good use of financial resources i think it would be a good resource ever financial services and i'm not sure it's an unwanted service >> i might propose we don't a little case study i want to know what it could cost to make some of the guys patrolling those that involve donations to captions that kind of thing it is more likely that someone who doesn't speak english get involved i'll leave it to staff to price those out because i'm

also a little bit concerned that, you know, maybe people are not calling you and asking you but there maybe a need on a trial basis if no one picked up that in a trial basis that is also useful information. i propose we change the recommendation to say that we'll analyze whether the costs and pick up specific guys to so what the cost will be to make the guys available. any reaction from the commissioners >> i'll oppose that. in regards to the item itself the fact that we are in san francisco we're in a such a

diverse place we've accompany people this vice president should do it as much as other departments we don't need a study let's just do that i move we do that >> my concern commissioner keane like my department we've got limited resources we're spending money here and not somewhere else to determine the most efficient use that's not spend a great deal of money on this we don't think there's a demand for at least on the city until we've tested it out and

limit our resources elsewhere and i understand mr. chair, i san diego with you. is there a motion to amend finding 7 recommendation 7 >> i move that we amend the recommendation 7 and that we should the ethics commission should make the guys and educational material available in the will languages like in other city departments. >> is there a second. >> second. >> public comment? >> commissioners ray hearts are open governments the longest journey begins with the single step if i put the recommendation out there you're basically saying we're not going to do this at any time i agree with

commissioner keane and commissioner andrews and including commissioner hur that i don't, you know, it isn't like we have to take all documents and translate them but take the major ones that people are going to be interested in in other words, if someone is running for a city office they should be able to file whatever financial documents, what campaign workers or people like a treasurer eir so forth it required if they don't have that basically in their own language they'll have the defense i did this base it was not provide in my language. not only did we have the problem with the legal definitions we had problems with the language

independence if it is found out people are not interested i have a series doubt we really want to show we appreciate the diversity of this city we have to be pro-active and not pass it. >> just a suggestion either identify what those major languages or set up criteria for identifying what those major languages are. populations can be fluid so what the major languages are today might not be that in 10 years >> yes. very quickly i'm a

very long supporter of the motion and commissioner keane it's a no-brainer. in terms of costs if all the city departments have the guides materials in spanish and asian mandar mandarin tlag so this should be a priority if you're resources are limited cut them somewhere else you don't need a study for a need for materials in other languages. perhaps 40 percent of the electorate in the city probably will support this i support it >> hello commissioners joe kelly i'm a member of the civil grand jury as well.

i wanted to suggest that the - commissioner keane referenced every department doing this in all languages i get the sense of all the documentations i don't know if it's all departments doing it. with all the documentation that's being put out there so i would just suggest that commissioner hur of studying it is worthwhile and peas male and female it out there to get the response taken on the information. >> in favor of commissioner keane's motion. what are the 4 major languages >> there's 3 arrest spanish

mandarin and tagalog. >> is that what you propose all the education material being made available in. >> yes commissioner hur's commissioner andrews. >> i would i was wondering about resources i totally get how we create the unfunded mandate is there an opportunity to go to the city to find resources that we can do this this is could we go to the mayor's office and at least the staff and is that the commission has identified a particular need or the grand jury identified a need and we agree with that we want to move forward with those 3 languages is there a culture cultivated in the mayor's office or use a department of public health be able to use their

resources just thinking of kind of 3 ways. >> if the department agreed to do it we will have to pay them. so if there's a large cost we'll have to go to the mayor's office and question a supplemental appropriation that goes through the board. >> any further comments from the commissioners. in favor of commissioner keane's motion >> i oppose. on the grounds i'm concerned about the budget arrest okay finding number 8. any questions or comments relating to the finding in recommendation 8? okay finding 9.

>> hello, i'm larry bush from the civil grand juror i want to point out awhile many of the recommendations suggest that matters be referred to the board of supervisors it's worth recalling thatvoters.

>> why. >> deputy director. again, we're trying to determine exactly with the executive advisors someone that is in the hall of city manager and making a contract it would be contrary

to pretty much every regulatory lobbying related that i know where you would require are reporting and registration by virtue of advising for compensation how someone will go about influencing city hall there has to be the contract like in the lobbying ordinance to the extent that is the issue and what guided my understanding that guided this respond >> okay. >> for us in the grand jury this was one the gray areas it's in the clear whether or not this person should be recommended as a lobbyist or whether they're at the front end of the campaign it's one of the areas that should be evaluated as part of thinking how effective the laws are not necessarily to say to a

person oh, what our doing is really lobbying but to point out to the public the full range of what's happening. because public relations is an industry that's grown in the last 20 years that's separate from lobbying but it all ties together? real world. i think people deserve a period of time birthday of what's going on >> what type of individual did you have in mind when you - when the - >> i suggest there's a. >> former. >> there are officials that hold themselves out as strategic advisors. >> okay. >> question. >> commissioner hayon.

>> would this include the official expediters. >> theirs included? new lobbyist rules. >> yeah. i was wondering if that was what you were going after mr. hud. >> thank you, commissioner. as i recall there have been so many cases since this

reason trigger the law as a result their compensations is captured the lobbyist have changed there was a deliberate attempt to cast the net has wide as possible so on outside lobbyist you make one contact with a city official you have to automatically registration as a lobbyist then the issue that's

known as obligates that is directed towards the public saying hey please contact our public officials to do xyz. that gets to the expertise lobbyist that was addressed it's true we don't have a regime for that right now. so whether it's that's called for or not if the grand jury thinks to some stent it is that makes sense >> any other comments from the commissioners on finding recommendation 10? finding and recommendation 11?

i also want some clarification on 11. i don't know if the city attorney actually should talk about the upcoming case i'd like to know why we think it's maybe you want to change that >> sewer deputy director arnold i believe what the staff is proposing in terms of recommendation 11 in the reference for an upcoming superior court case involving the city and the bay whether e-mails sent concerning city business on the officials private e-mail account are subject to the private records act we're monitoring it internally but that'sha