a study for the contribution of the district it provides clear documentation about the evolution of the civic center to talk about the projects being considered preempted by a kult firmer 2, 3, 4 oregon and jeffrey tillman at the university of cincinnati this is an expert on the culture it was managed by the department staff and if you want by the grant from the protection agency for the district plan that is underway at this time inventory was conducted on the culture landscape in the guides culture landscape procedural

guide it includes an overall for the district based on primary and secondly, sources and the development of the landscape feature and a block by block inventory within the district the intern finding are in our packet and brief the c will i i found the landscape is sufficient and c design and the civic center has significance under the following areas as designed by the national register those are scomplap architecture and roads and style and community planning and development entertainment additional politics period significance for the cultural landscape is 1956 to 91 the inventory identified the following culture features

printer and boxed and street lights and monuments and brick currents and pathways and public features it's important to note that under the jurisdiction of other city agencies new determinations were made with the civic center plaza for the landscape those will be evaluated in the better than market street plan and the background upgrade projects this has an inventory of the unplaza and the civics center mr. makras the department engaged in the activities to share the inventory the public creation of a website two after planter boothsd at the farmer's market and civic center and outreach by the staff for the institutional stakeholders within the district inventory is finding were shared

including this map containing survey finding and a walk what the features and brochures as well as a general website with the outreach materials for the social landscape we received two letters with the factual information and those are included in your packet if i have questions about the departments approach please let us know we recommend an approval and i'm available to answer any questions thank you. >> thank you, commissioners? commissioner johnck >> yep gretchen my questions are related to an page i think it was 87 this relates to the statement of significance that succeeds that page you mentioned

that the statement of significance should be updated is that the just want in terms of the same as the significance draft for the other significance you provided the update and the update is i mean, i read that. >> we provided basically a document provides recommendations for that how the landmark designation could be updated this is not that it is a survey of the landscape features specifically that provides a robust level of what's already out there with the projects we don't at this point open up the designation that already exists. >> thank you and the other relates to principles but i guess the public comments they'll speak so i'll wait to hear from the ones we received

in the packet i've responded to 12 and commissioner wolfram. >> i have a general question i kind of felt like i was missing a section i didn't say see an integrity section it jumped from history to those drawings that show contributing or non-contributing features the decision about whether or not their contributing it is missing in my section i'm wondering was that intentional for example, and a lot of the things popped out like one of the things listed as an contributing feature is the mall you can easily august the original design as flawed that was completely different and listed as contributing so it needs to

be more of an evaluation of the integrity. >> yes. the actual analysis comes after the inventory pages so the block by block summaries are at the end it is the register significance and the district i can grab a copy. >> is if a separate document. >> in the back of that one. >> starting open page 87 it sort of the sore page 82 the evaluation analysis of the document they you think through the different areas i've mentioned they kind of briefly summarize the designation and provide a statement at the end and the significance criteria and areas of significance and

then they run into the kind of recommendations for upgrading the statements and there is not in the meanwhile necessarily an district section but it's meant to you identify features overall that contribute to the landscape i think we would on a project by project basis look at the integrity conditions and how they not meet the secretary standards including the removal of some teachers it is identifying what's out there currently and intirnt them. >> it doesn't speak to the specific features for example, the fulton mall is listed in bold as an actual in this chart it didn't say anything about it at all unless i misunderstood. >> the modern things were not talked about a o so it's overall

spatial like the parking. >> i was arguing the spatial content was so much wider there are features that nouns the district and more analysis would be helpful and the light standards i believe the eir for the pdr doesn't have the integrity and it shows they do it's confusing. >> commissioners tim frye department staff it there maybe another way to look at this in terms of the intent we already have a designated district and know that district is at the federal and state level those are individual components it is not we have the examination but the strict retains it's district

e integrity it provides for information like this body in like those light standards at the came in the future to remove you'll have this background information to determine whether or not the what the appropriate treatment is there and just to follow up you know the light standards were looked at in continuity from van ness and market street all the way to fisherman's wharf this looked at the light standards and specific how they relate to the signify center landmark district that's why there's a slight difference so from the boarder complexities rather than the component of the sire which is why it's called an inventory we're not saying those are landmark features within the district but provides the

features to share you with the next time a rec and park project comes through commissioner matsuda. >> thank you let's see first, i like this the information about the culture landscape inventory that is a great way to get the general public to say what they think and second reading the case report i understand that this document was to not to replace but to further enhance certain feature or features buses the current documents show some inaccuracy so how could we resolve those inaccuracy is it a

matter of designating a staff member i don't want to rely on adequacy it's still the document it is to supplement and add to it so people can rely on it to make sure people can rely on it so 40 years from now we're looking at a clear obviously of the information not disputed. >> yes. gretchen from the department staff the national register and the local designation are all varied in terms of their factual content and that has to do with residence on resources are questionable it's been pointed out many of them relate to sort of the you know architect

politics teams of people involved those arts style related context important to the district but this project we're trying to reveal new information we relied on those secondary designations as a means to provide that context i think in order to upgrade it that will take dedicated staff time to double check all the facts and figure out which one is right. >> tim frye department staff our goal would be to at this point to make as many of the edits we can to the survey it's identified by president hasz and in the future we'll certainly keep everything on file and keep working with president hasz and reopen this designation and

dedicate our projecting program to that the programs take a lot of work and a lot of stakeholders involved in this civic center district we can do it it will take time so again, we agree with you, we want to make sure this information is on file and loaded into our parcel database so they don't continue to filter through information but nights beyond the scope to make the changes identified by president hasz. >> commissioner pearlman and gretchen i want to congratulate you on an amazing report it's a vast amount of information a i've read parts of it to absorb the information it's a good job

and thanks to staff this is probably a really basic basic question but i'm wondering how i determine the elements that have meaning for instance, you have frirnts but not meters this frirnt has meaning but that one didn't. >> there's many frirnts in civic center and related to the historic period so at that point in time when the civic center was known for it's roll in 9 city government as well as the 1918 event that if he should the design of the civic center and features that remain from that that represent it including the street lights which is why their excluded in this it relates to

those significance areas and things like the 1906 fireboxs and the a w o f and the frrnts theirs this relic in the response to the 1906 san francisco earthquake to reacting react to that but in the xhentsz of this district we looked at what we have here some of the later the parking meters came latter and now many varieties that are not associated with those areas. >> commissioner johns. >> i thank you i do want to make a comment on commissioner pearlman's comment i think it absolutely correct it's important to be granted, of course, very few things in the

world are perfect as commissioner matsuda said i'm quite concerned with combroerg a report that is a little bit less than what it could be but what would the plan be for including and taking advantage of the work that jim has done. >> i think the plan we have right now we incorporate comments specifically we can actually verify related to the landscape and also just minor facts that need to be corrected and won't take a lot of you know rewriting and document formatting and some of the facts that are more a question of the existing record that needs to be researched we'll not correct at this point and keep on file for

future research verification prongs as well so those facts are based on primary sources for recollecting tents and other sources. >> okay. so you're open to working with him to correct those. >> uh-huh. >> the reason this report is gloria will be so go and helpful it is also be one place to people will initially turn to get information when some questions come up about the district. >> uh-huh. >> that's also a reason why if there's matters that are yet to be determined or that we have reason to building might not be at exactly as stated in here i would suggest that we develop some way perhaps a footnote or

perhaps an asterick or something that we call those areas out to other people so someone didn't just say we will they approved it because no one's doing going to go back and look at the minutes well, some will i think it would be really a very useful for us you to note those things. >> commissioner. >> i think that's a great suggestion. >> i've a number of comments maybe we should wait until after. i guess one overall question i was surprised to see the sort of and describe it i felt it was a cop-out saying the modern piece is going to be later here's an

opportunity to understand it, it's comprehensive and pretty much more the landscape in city hall from the modern period so it felt like we are that punting 90 percent of actually what was specifically there i didn't realize better market street is in front of city hall as part of their study >> grefrn with the department staff i appreciate the comment and glad to mention the civic center playground project have moving forward move forward i'm the project manager and both of those studies have studies and there are two different community with better market street and with the playground project they'll look at the plaza as a whole and contributing to the district as individuals potential significance as a site and

unplaza will be studied at better market street and the market street plan not in xhaeshg but will the studied. >> my understanding the eir is looking at those plaza pragmatic level increase no specific design we don't know exactly at this point what the specific impact but the street will be look at as a project but the market street pragmatic. >> my other question maybe under general public comment i found the statement very confusing maybe because there's referrals to all the documents and how they describe the time i just wanted to maybe there's an

introductory statement or paragraph about the point of view of this document before you get into the reasonable documents i started reading and i thought wait who's statement is this period of the significance turnout from 1978 it's confusingly worded i thought there could be clarity by putting in a statement about that section. >> commissioners seeing no more comments we'll open this up for public comment starting with one speaker card mr. haas. >> commissioners i'm jim i've appeared before you in the past and talked about the inadequacy of the underlying documents relating to the civic center the fact they were done look at and

antiquated and, etc., etc. you've need that in our comments in this modern age we live in there are new tools to do research including the digitaltion of newspapers that is easy to assess and i've learned a great deal of the civic center in the recent endeavors nevertheless, was started in not annexed paled by the historic narrative in the document before you it seems like the mindless regurgles the old documents about people that knew nothing the san francisco history i on you've seen my 10 packages of comments those are comments are based on things you can get readily easily like the newspaper accounts and in our

resolution you have to sift that you have found this document accurate and adequate and i don't think it and i also say you're going to send is to various depositories what you have bra today meets that standard if the staff indeed have told me and told you to make changes you need to hold the matter open and approve the inventory but wait until the historic record and along with the egregious errors many are obviously issues of interpretation but some futile like 91911 mayor ralph was not sworn in until 1912 it goes on and on but do some arrangement

to work on the document more and more before it gets released another thing that distributors me in your discussion it's good director ram is here our department as the budget this which is supposed to putting pull all of this together including this subsidiary projects like the playground and civic centers the grove street coordinate project and the one between the library, etc. that's not mentioned and that is something it needs to be moved on and got to the front of the part i said before or put the cart before the hours. >> is there anyone who wishes to speak on the item?

>> good afternoon mike buehler with the san francisco heritage based on the comments 70 so far this document might came back come back to the commission so we'll withhold our final comments, however, would like to support commissioner wolfram's comment unplaza and civic center plaza be reevaluated regarding as to whether or not their character finding features overall and like to see that analysis be incorporated into the final document coming back before you thank you very much. >> any other of the member wishz to speak seeing none, back to you, commissioners. >> commissioner johns. >> thank you, mr. buehler i think maybe was quite perceive i think we should take a little

bit more time it's not ready to be adapted today i think that the comments made by mr. haas and staff has already really acknowledged there's more work to be done i'm thinking we should ask staff about how long it will take to do the additional work that esteems to be required and then pit this over to law enough time for the work to the accomplished. >> mr. frye. >> tim frye department staff to accommodate some of the more basic at its mr. haas mentioned will probably take a few months to accommodate all the idiots

we're talking about years just as mr. hilliard said some of the primary research has to be substantiated so you know commissioner johns your idea of about foot noting the product is a great idea another option removing the nra active altogether to adapted the inventory we feel strongly despite the previous errors in the documentation that nothing appears to change the finding of the inventory so we certainly would like to start using the inventory as a planning tool the immediate concern would be you can if we wanted to bring this to you with some edits we can do that by december. >> director ram.

>> another approach there's somethings that can be stated and it's straightforward maybe the other way to pull out the sections in question and put those in a separate donate i like an appendix to operate that information so it's clearly a separate set of package of information from the main bold i don't know the extent of how much that pulls apart the documents but the public and users are very aware there's questions about some of the information but not the body. >> is that something you should take until the next meeting or maybe a little bit longer to formulate some the suggestions whether that is how you think we

should move would that allow you to use of the parts of the report you want to start using by allow on the opportunity to make sure the rest of it is not published and approved until it's ready? >> yes. by the next hearing we'll be able to thrill what parts the analysis can remain and parts the background history we'll have to approach separately we'll give you a schedule by the october 16th century hearing. >> i want to jump in we were trying to get a separate position for landmarking and getting extra hours here and there transmittal i'd like to split that up and with all due respect to mr. haas he's spent a lot of time but we have a lot of other requests coming in front of you from supervisors and

civic groups, etc. i'd really appreciate mr. fries help and ms. hilliard's help in trying to find a way to catalog this in a short marijuana commissioner johnck. >> yeah. i think the direction we're moving ♪ the way of sprint if up from the user end as a professional in the field i use the northwest information center a lot in some states part of the depository information in california as outreach for the preservation office if there's so i would this report is going to go into that depository i read for example, a medicaid waiver library congress so i would