differences between the windows that were installed and the existing windows on the vrp floor about one half to quarter of an inch between the vanilla windows upstairs and the lower two floors their insignificant and have occurred no way due to the fact the windows are nonetheless mrumgd since the building was built the treatment on the yes, ma'am of the windows, however, the department has been inconsistent with or women and children our neighborhood and beyond and the respiratory to install those on wooden windows and seemingly more important is the window material, however, the department notes in the denial of our building permit that clad

windows have been accepted in the past despite those windows are coded they look like wood from the outside but on the outside either aluminum or vanilla this planning department will accept something they normally wouldn't accept it is not a reasonable positional many your opinion to require the or more of the window when at the meat the standards or allowed substitutes the city has the opinion the windows have detracted from the 06r8 neighborhood character despite 60 percent of the homes on our block have windows other than wood and several have approving from the department and it prides it's sustainability on the 2012 window guidelines it out the

energy sustainability to install the wood windows it's inconsistent with that policy to promote one product the wood windows while requiring the financing products like vanilla be taken and thrown in the dump purely for aesthetic reasons this is not a reasonable position in your capacity in closing, i did a public records request the board has reviewed the window replacements one was withdrawal after the planning department allot the wood clad window and another in 2012 that allowed aluminum clad windows instead of w50d and finally one earlier this year in 2014 was

vinyl windows. >> actually in 2005 the vinyl windows loss a question in your brief i weren't assure that the 2005 permit included the windows but your soupd much more positive. >> i think that it's i think that it is complicated and the description from 2004 says remodel the bathroom, kitchen laundry room and it says explore

deem in 2005 it says renew all the permits so if the planning department is relying on one word description and itself kitchen and bathroom and laundry room there's more than just executor demo actually a finished how did i think because no plans were required to be submitted our argument we don't understand zoning scope of the project the building inspector who came and reviewed the case didn't understand the project and i think the planning department didn't understand the keep scott a of the project we're looking at this one 2 line statements trying to figure out whether the permit included the windows our argument is basically. >> we've heard our argument thank you yes. >> mr. sanchez.

>> thank you scott sanchez planning staff it's a request to legalize the 9 windows on the subject building on treat that building was built if 1906 based on it's age and decisions with the preservation staff noted that the defining features are intact on the top story the original windows potential original windows remain and those provide the guideposts for the windows at the lower window their double hung and have drops at the bottoms of those windows this is not the result of a complaint that was a neighbor complaint filed it was discovered using the staff open the condominium conversion and

this gets problematic to enforce especially the window replacement on windows that are comedy conversions you have a different owner 3 owners trying to get something someone to agree to bring it back to it's condition two unit have windows that were replaced with the permit i disagree with the appellant you if it could have covered the product disruption it pretty clear it's a remodeling kitchen and in kind no mention the window replacement that is it's a different level of review and additionally the cost of construction it is posted as $20,000 or the remodel of a kitchen and two bats baths the cost of work on the permit that

was sought to legalize the window were $15,000 people were lead to building that the kitchen and bathrooms would have been $15,000 i don't think that you recall the project description does not include the windows and it didn't indicate that is included in the work at that time, certainly we've heard those cases the one this year was actually, the property that's adjacent to the last item on the calendar and in this case we had approved a permit over the counter and review and appeal he said that permit was issued in error and the board loud it to move forward this is not been discussing this with

preservation staff not the worse case scenario but want to apply our standards not the worse case scenario they evaporate switched out you rounded bays to flat bases they didn't change that aspect the main issues are the lack of o g losing not required for all windows tyler characteristic of the windows that were original to the building at that time, so give we can see on the top floor that would be the appropriate window replacement to have for the lower windows so that element and also the wood it states we're willing to do an flexibility and i know it's not as much flexibility as the permit holder likes but there are alternatives to a purr wood

windows there are clad windows that come close to matching the profiles you'll have in a wood window and again enthusiastic the reason for making a decision but the consistency in applying the guidelines i don't these those with permitted in on a 4 so they're coming to lengthening legalize it now the condominium conversion is obviously a substantial benefit that is upon the reciprocate it can be much more difficult to address it after the conversion is convert with that, i'm available for questions. >> mr. sanchez and why would the condo process trigger i have

a permit review or a site review of the type windows. >> so it does trigger a permit review with the did this mates one of the requirement for the permits they're not in violation of the condo people are not buying condos that have illegal construction we try to commercialism approximately all the proper permits are there one the things that's relating easy to check is the windows and kind of the reasons i've stated in i have a larger building multiple unit and the windows have been trrptd is much more difficult to bring into compliance around the

condominium conversion. >> anyway lettuce not go too far that way but the position the department has for years now september vinyl windows because of the change and the design of those types of windows you have a deeper sections in shaping of those sections why is it that vinyl windows are not acceptable here when the depth thought and the visible look the windows is similar to the ones on the upper floor. >> in discussing that with preservation staff i'll stepdaughter with that there's no the swhoefl of the windows in our preservation staff in approving those over the years but it's really open a case by case basis to determine in the profiles are appropriate and

match in this case planning staff reviewed it and determined the window they're seeking legalization here are not appropriate and certainly we understand and this came up in the last case earlier this year there's a finite life to vinyl windows and you end up in a landfill by the way, certainly they can't be cycle with the three the plastic ones can over time when those windows fail they'll come into compliance and get a proper permit to change the windows out and conform with the window guidelines that's one of the hearing in february this is not the worse case scenario we've had. >> actual the wood windows have a significant improvement and those are not those windows.

>> thank you mr. duffy. >> commissioners, i just wanted to speak about the we - i worked on the dbi we come across when people get the condo reports i lighten it to opening up our solar your building is not going to be scrutinized we have a rear deck and each of those egg things the planning department is not involved i see it an condo windows installed no permits that's where those folks are it's unfortunate a lot of time the work has been done by

the previous owner and their stuck because of the situation i didn't see any building priorities for the windows even though there was building permits and the kitchen and bathrooms are not okaying the building their not going to be looking at the windows so don't assume tyler windows sometimes i've been an inspector i see the paper on the inside of the windows did you put new windows okay yes. you did go down and get more permits because i didn't see the permit phenomenon for the windows sorry that's where rethey are you saw one on 23rd i think 26 windows all

storefront windows they're changing them out every 70 years we give them extension and eventually back into performance but that's one ovrmgs option we had with that one. >> i remember they came in front of us. >> so no way it's unfortunate. >> when you looked at the permit history mr. duffy what did you see besides the kitchen and bath. >> only in the brief i saw others but nothing mentioned about the windows not you may give that strikes me we would have done a window replacement. >> thank you very much any public comment on that item?

seeping public comment we have rebuttal from the appellant. >> so thank you, again so i just want to say this remodel permit seems like it is fairly innocuous you put in new kitchen sink that was actually a large remodel that concluded the expansions of the leadership into the laundry area and removal of the laundry area into another area the permits from the 2005 actually list multiple permits one or more one was a exterior stair again, no permits required were meow not sure what the scope of the permits were without the planned if this is where i find myself what's in the scope and out of scope based

on the two line descriptions you know i think we would agree with the zoning administrator fwerp talking about windows that were sliders we're talking about windows that were horizontal or different lights that are taped or sort of in between glass and more divided lights or the details in the building had insignificantly all of the evidence we love our neighborhood and love where we live we're 20-year residents and committed to making this area my home we know that a third of our neighbors on the street we're committed to maintaining and being part of this city and this community there's a photo in the brief that shows our building with the

windows not sure if you're able to see it or if we can put it here is that it? you can see that at the top there's the historic wood windows and the bottom two have the vinyl windows we're asking the board to see whether this is inconsistent with the guidelines and again, when we went to the planning department was part of our condo conversion we were not saying legalize the windows the planning department asked unus to pull a permit and i'll respectfully submit our case to the decision of the board thank you >> i have a question so when have you discussed that with the sellers of whom you purchased the property at this point and no, we have not and because in

the d t d s the area that says works that's performed without permit so the full disclosure in the work is performed without a permit they need to disclosure that during the traction. >> we're looking at the option. >> so the pds indicated they're not done without a permit and it says no work was done without a permit we're going to have to look at our options with the seller. >> good case. >> thank you. >> mr. sanchez. >> thank you scott sanchez just to be brief a little bit on the permit history there are permits that were reunite from 2004 for

fast frame and rear the cost 15 hundreds as referred for 20 thoughts u thousand dollars for the kitchen and the baths and in kind that are in kind with the nova that's $20,000 other work was scald there may have been done with the scope of that permit issued upon the statement of the permit holders so in regards to commissioner honda's comments there maybe work without benefit of permit that was not disclose. >> mr. sanchez unlike the case there was a period is this one of the situations they're not going to get the woirlt to convert unless they switch out their windows and meet the

guidelines and we'll respect the decision the board makes open the permit tonight and once that's final i'll the check with stiff staff but no provisions to stop us from moving forward. >> if we were to allow an extension of time you'll allow the condo conversion to move forward. >> we went our discussion saw what if we allowed the windows to stay. >> we'll defer to the wisdom of the board (laughter). >> anything further mr. duffy. >> just a comment from the pertain the permit antenna there's a number of building permits it might have seen better the plans to see them

together it's not 4 to 5 permits if you want to brief something here it's better to have the information here. >> except mr. duffy for the construction costs it's unlikely. >> the planning department don't have inspections in the fleet so the building we're also telling our staff to look for the windows if someone is putting in windows i see people have to hire someone they put in the wrong windows and we cite them it's not a nice conversation i have seen people in tears over that because it happens i think that having all the permits might have been easier i didn't bring it with me i doubt there's plans to show the windows.

>> thank you. >> commissioners the matter is submitted awning the planning department staff had their annual function it was quite a few years back didn't like my decision on allowing i was then only on that particular case i lost balanced 4 to 1 to allow the windows to stay i agreed that particular case which was where the vinyl windows were the real thin ones you know the cheap ones that the sunlight with the vinyl and that building it was on the cab brill this was a stucco box

what was there before was limb windows that's slightly different here a building that is reflected the snefts are different than my own in you look at it from preschooler a visible point of view in terms of the design what is so different about those vinyl windows vs. the wooden windows up above the tishgs texture you'd have to be close to tell most windows are painted with some type of enamel or something that hardens with the la text

paint the issue whether those two lower floors windows vary in technicalities it is your from what months people walking but they vary in depth to both distributors the width and the depth in my opinion it doesn't so i'm not as supportive as the premise port commission position in n this particular case. >> madam president. >> i'm also laser i didn't have slippery slopes so i'll uphold the department and figure out a way to mitigate the impact. >> i can go either way as we did in the past grant the permit

holders significant amount of years to replace wich we've done in the past i do still think there's recourse in regards to the seller with possible responsibility to help with that or i can actually, i'm looking at the picture i don't see much difference either so i could go i have way commissioners as a reminder in the vote is 3 to one we'll normally do is to continue the case for the missing commissioner to participate in the final vote and so shall we talk about that here i appreciate what our saying but you know if you give a little bit then how much do you give or not give. >> the beautiful thing about the no vote it didn't apply the

next cats could be completely different and not set a precedence - precedent they if match the period of the property in the daze decade i don't see the big difference for those windows sorry planning department so either way i imordinance this particular case i'd insist we give time or a place i don't mind in allowing them to keep the windows. >> how does it work i can't remember in terms of giving them time. >> i think we gave them 10 over and over 15 years. >> i think they extend their

own time for the permit we didn't stepped it. >> the permit holders has to monitor that or their permit will expire they'll have to get another permit. >> the permit is i'll make a motion i'm going to move to grant the appeal and to overrule the department in terms of accepting the permit to legalize those permits. >> so is that air and abuse. >> not necessarily you need a finding the code and chart requires a finding. >> i understand.

>> with the finding that the new windows look similar to the original windows yes. >> okay. >> okay. we need 4 votes to overrule a denial to over roll the denial with the finding that the new windows look similar to the wood windows okay i guess i should put new vinyl to be specific. >> just vinyl. >> just vinyl okay with the finding that the vinyl windows look similar to the original wood windows arrest on that motion the vice president a absent commissioner president lazarus commissioner honda

commissioner wilson. >> the vote is 4 to zero the that building inspection and planning department is over ruled the department issues that finding. >> okay. we'll call the next two and last two items are items one both vs. the department of public works with the been approval with the stage permit on ashbury burger electricity of a alteration permit for new horizontal at front vertical roof-deck and 3 new bathrooms and have an it's and remodeled kitchen we'll start with the appellants there's 14 minutes to present your