council to the boards discretion of whether or not they'd like to reconsider it if there's wasn't major changes to the petition is that what i'm hearing. >> within the boards discretion yes, ma'am and i'm wonder what constitutes a major decisions because i refer back to the last amendment we did or approval we did with kip and also gateway about their attendance preference this is changing a preference and it warranted a whole process because that was significant enough of a change i'm hearing this change would be from a k through 12 to switch it to a k through 57 so in our judgment is this a significant

change or a minor change. >> i'm leaving this determination to 9 board as to where it seems like like a major shift in the focus of the program that's being recommended. >> so general council i our office about whether or not the change in the student assignment process for the two charter schools was significant or not your response it's significant enough it warrants a vote on it and as you see we went through the whole process of committee so now you're telling me that you don't have - >> i'm not remembering that go confidence was it the one last friday and no sir, the one commissioner moran kip and the gateway and our council aging

yes at the time said i had exponential to you and i said you'll not be present by the way, u but united airlines yes said and representative in our office said it was significant enough to go through the whole process i'd like to sort of - >> if what our asking. >> but the change in the charter. >> to go for the proposal. >> excuse me. commissioner wynns there was a proposal to include to change their admissions process. >> it was not tntd. >> but even to change that it had to go through a resubmission we had to go through the whole process of committees first reading committees, etc. because your office respectfully tells you that was a significant

enough change to warrant that and actually that was the exact language the general council at that time, encourage do you remember that or am i losing it. >> i remember september and yeah. i remember is a significant enough change in the chapter it will have to go through the whole process i am wondering is it significant enough of a change to warrant a whole process. >> president fewer i'm hearing from you in our couching and fraction you feel that this change is significant enough to warpt a standard handing in the same process as the other one i'm telling you that is a digestion within the boards discretion and no general

council i'm not saying that i'm saying in your legal advice is that a big enough changed to warrant a new process i'm asking the general council for legal advice on whether or not this is a significant change as your office gave us an opinion on the other charter. >> i'm not a lawyer but it seems like to me what i've heard as general council this is significant enough to require a process they've what i've heard so unless someone else has something devil the question has been asked and answered. >> this is part of the reason i think the amendment is coming up

because there's condominium conversion around what the process is what the not the process turning from a k through 12 petition into a k 5 petition and shorting the petition but submitting the documentation. >> modifying this is hearing it in two weeks in a different forum i don't understand this to be submitting an entirely new petition for a completely different request the request is the same it's a shorter number of grades within the petition so that's why i think the amendment is being requested we can think about it from a k through 5 and bring it back in two weeks and look at it from the k through 5 vs. having them going through the whole process we'll only modified the grade k through 5

this is why we want to hear it in a couple of weeks i'm having a hard time understanding what is possible and not and one thing that is absolutely essential is that there not be confusion amongst the members of governing board what their approving or disapproving and this is a major request. >> thank you and commissioner wynns a comment. >> i want to speak to the amendment that was proposed in the same vein i building that this would be a by the way, it is not appropriate to use the word resubmission that will be still before us on an amendment before you frankly it will need to be resubmitted and go through

the process because we have heard from the petitioners and from you know supporters tonight how carefully planned this charter is and if you carefully plan you know i'm not prepared to support it but a k through 5 it is fundamentally a different institution than a k-12 school we need to recognize this therefore i'm not support the amendment i'll be supporting the idea i'll be willing to support it as a charter so i don't want to support the procedural amendment before us. >> commissioner maufas and through the chair if i may inquire since you're sitting here i'm going to ask you why

you can certainly join her. >> why you all explicit were you not advised by our staff to consider where are you going our petition and resubmitting it as a k 5 petition and were you not advised i won't have to go drove the entire process or the other chunk process i think i remember some of the conversation and those options being presented to you. >> yes. a little bit so i think it might help let me back up we start the process of designing the school we flagged f this immediately with the legal team we're designing a curriculum so you read about kindergarten through fifth grade knowing a chapter is only a 5 year chapter and up for renewal

we will he will have the middle school or a high school our world is change and we don't know what a middle school will look like in 5 years and now the process. >> i want to get to the question. >> once it was flagdz the curriculum hearing this was in fact an issue the legal team advised this is a technicality we don't need to resubmit nothing on our ends to do up to the boards discretion to make the change on the floor instead of authorizing k 12 but k 5 we only did the clarification we do have our legal team here tonight in the event it is helpful to answer the questions i think so there are two understandings of the law to be authorized just

simply for - >> i don't have i have one understanding fy i. >> okay. >> commissioner norton. >> yeah. so legal council you're saying in the board determines this is a - not, in fact, a major change or how making this change will, however, it is a major change or not isn't that a suspension of board rules won't we need 5 votes to accomplish the mission to change our rules that's exactly but i'm saying would we need 5 votes for the motion. >> so, now we are all fairly

confused maybe i'm speaking to myself quite frankly there's a motion it's been first and seconded on the table. >> i need to hear the motion again. >> commissioner haney. >> i motion to postpone this item and allow it to be rehearsed (laughter) with corrections for the next board month to month reconsidered. >> no, it didn't have to be reconsidered if you postpone you only postpone it is like - >> it's only an amendment. >> excuse me. i want to - okay. so question. excuse me. we have a we have a motion on the floor to postpone this to the next meeting of november. >> yes. postpone it; is that correct. >> that's the motion on the

floor and building that commissioner norton said we need 5 votes to pass; is that correct. >> okay ms. casco do you have a comment. >> only 5 votes or are we're going to - this is a super majority 2/3rd's. >> well, the council just told me according to our rules we will be suspending our rules for the majority why would this go ahead. >> sorry if we're pit all this together the postponement and the fast track possibility with the changes then it is a suspension of the board rules that requires a vote if it's just a pony time then it's 4 but

what is postponement is the same thing comes back 2 weeks from now and we're no further along than now. >> so sxhaefrn since you've proposed this this is your responsibility to clarify it. >> to clarify what? >> (laughter) >> just to clarify our motion you just heard the jeopardy council is if we poison it you're considering what we're considering tonight in you choose to postpone it to change that's a suspension of the rule that votes instead of 4 do you understand that. >> i want to care it with the suspension of rules. >> okay. again.

>> so that requires 5 votes. >> okay commissioners are we ready to rotate or there other comments or things to confuse us. >> dr. murase you look kind of concerned. >> i'm not comfortable with the suspension of the rules we have a clear process for our charter approvals and other progresses that have run smoothly i feel like if this is a big enough seems like a kiddie chapter is different from a k 5 charter. >> so actually, you, vote no; is that correct we're ready for a vote. >> with that said, i need to pit this two the minutes so is commissioner haney postponing action on this resolution 1491 s

that one november at that time that will be brought back that recollection correction. >> with corrections. >> with corrections? >> with amendments. >> it will be brought back to the board of education with amendments. >> yes. >> okay. >> but that's - >> is that okay. >> yeah. >> so ms. costco we're reverend ready for the vote. >> mr. chin no arrest mr. haney. >> ms. maufass ms. mendoza-mcdonnell dr. murase nay. >> ms. norton arrest no ms. wynns no arrest president fewer no. >> that fails thank you very much now commissioners any

comments or from the superintendent about the petition before us? k through 12 petition new school thanks. >> yes. commissioner norton. >> i want to say i'm not going to be supportive there are great ideas and passion but good ideas and enthusiasm are not enough for prelims i share the commissioners ability to get their projects from the stage to reality between those are the petitioners have less than 5 years of teaching i'm troubled by the offer confident of the gesture and selling this is a well-thought-out position and seeing off in terms of we'll make it a k 5 in the next few weeks in the first pages they've

logged it 57 times how can you cut this off i'm disableus of the petitioners understanding of the intact i have no confidence we've not had a positive confidence most recently with the parents concerns from the patterns that didn't want their kids co-locked with the leadership not a shed of evidence for the equally equality of the model i want to point out one model on the passengers is that are more focused on the partnership and the relationship in our packet this evening they've included a letter from a parent this letter constraints personal details about any child but because it

says nice things it was appropriate to include it was not i urge any colleagues to vote no, it is the paeshgsz lack experience i'm suspicious. >> okay commissioner wynns would you like to follow that. >> no, but thank you okay. so you i can start by saying the skepticism i find it disturbing people think they're our partners in supporting the partnership so when we give contracts with our close partners and is i know that would be great and seem to be no understanding at all and

deallowed about increasing the number of charts in san francisco the person that came up and said i went to this high school and i like the public utilities system and granting this chapter will hurt the school system i found it myself disturbing to read in the petition the focus on vision 2025, in fact, the letter we got said we're going to help you fulfill vision 2025 by having more schools this board of education has not verified and we've worked out for over a year that says in order to meet the vision we should increase the number of schools within san francisco to compete with the publicly managed schools that follow the policies and try to implement that vision

so i find that kind of presumesus to presume that you know that's what we meant and you can take over our vision and say this is what i need to do to achieve the vision that's not what we had in mind at all i heard the charter association talk about england in close relationship on the presumption it's the charter school that gets to decide who our partners are in advancing the goals and achieving what this board sets as the goals to achieve it was said this will insure this school contributed to the enhancement of public utilities in san francisco even though we know from our experience of 22 years from the charter schools the opposite is true i believe

there is this actually what this makes we realize in the development of if chapter we have to do a much better job of talking to our parents and school administrator and our community partners when the real impact of charter schools on the public utilities system and we don't have to say which i don't say even though allison park hive skeptical of this not seeing the drama improvements nor anyone else but i don't go around saying there's nothing good about them it's terrible and something evil about those who propose this it is not that at all there is this alternate realty this sort of oh, they're really public utilities students and echo that defines schools and interesting enough the

chapter association has begun to court to assert legally that charter schools are not public utilities yet define them as public utilities i find absolutely bizarre and just we have - so i think this chapter in particular says we have a responsibility to percipient and tell the truth about the impact of the schools i know there are people that have good experiences and appreciate that there are people with good experiences if privately fund and government schools as well as you publicly privately manages and governed schools but not public utilities we have here this kind of ab ration where the petitioners here have used language to actually put out the idea they're the keepers

of our vision and i think we all of us should be careful and think seriously because if we want to accomplish as much of the enormously enormous vision the last thing we should do it is we can't do it await private people to limited experience, etc. to do it for us and show us the way thank you. >> thank you commissioner wynns the superintendent has something to say. >> thank you president fewer i completely respect the commissioners where they're coming from out of fairness to the petitioners i want to be clear publicly as a superintendent there are a number of community individuals that request to meet with me on

a regular basis the petitioners have met i say to partners two seminal documents our impact where they impact lives and vision 2025 if you if not to impact lives and vision 2025 i had that conversations with the passengers i want to be fair, any alignment to vision 2025 at my assistance the same as anyone i've met with wanting to collaborative or meet with the district i wanted to be fair by again, i respect where the board is coming from i want to be clear. >> thank you superintendent commissioner mendoza. >> thank you so i guess i have a different prospective on this

first of all, i want to precious the committee i know if our committee if we go through a much for detailed report and thinking b around that and having said in some of the conversations there are certainly some concerns that were brought up but this is one is a trick for me because there are many supporters with that are part of the new schools i have a tremendous amount of respect for and go to them and ask what do you think is this something we should consider when i see christine a or eric before us have been partners with us in a variety of things it holds a lot of wealthy and the engagement of the contingent is also when your coming in with

something you have a great vision and idea about you're trying to show it to the community and you get community response like you have i think that two holds quite a little bit of weight and i think that you also have expressed a desire 0 work with the school district as aableer in partnership this is admirable your coming in we've had chapters will have come in and said that's okay. we're going to go through the exercise but you guys are trying to make an effort to understand the vision and goals of the district and want to incredulous what we believe into our school so as i was reading to the petition i saw a lot of who we are and want to be going forward

there are a lot of things moving quickly as a district we have a hard time moving things quickly we have a lot of heart and passion and ideas and but we're running an desire school district not only a school so what is challenging i see, you know, a lot of the movement that charter can do we can't frustrates me because there are many things i see in our petition i appreciate and support and like that i want our kids to have been an opportunity to be part of it is a lot of what we want to be offering to our kids in vision 2025 and in particular what stood out was the global community having raised a child that spent a lot of time thinking global who traveled and now lives in spain and comes back home and has a

completely different view of life there's a true correction around what we offer and the experiences we give to our kids so there's a lot of there's energy around that and the other thing i think that was really helpful for me to kind of see the direction you want to go is who you're looking to partner with and 3 in particular, the last school at ucla i've done research on it for folks that have been part of that the exploratorium is one of my great partners in a place we wholeheartedly send our children to an our regular was not any children but in the school district and another school that is an interesting model and the idea that all of those districts are mentoring you as you build

out your capacity is critical so much of your goals and purpose in my mind is aligned to the vision in our school districts i have so big concerns about capacity in our district and the growth of our city and the option that our families have i'm like commissioner wynns view our charter schools are our public utilities we're very, very selective about our charter schools we're a sdrekt that's not approved the new up and coming chapter is schools we're one of the districts we talk about not taking over we don't want to be a charter school district we charter great schools year after year but i feel recycle there are options

that we can support and options that we want to be part of and i guess maybe i shouldn't be saying the way i want to be part of that's how i view new schools yes. there's questions and challenges and i actually would support new school if we were looking at it as a k 5 and because it's being put in front of of us as a k 12 that as pa district sets precedent is a expression of a new opportunity and i wish that it would have come to us a a k 5 i think many of us would have given different consideration and going to do a charter process is bumper to bumper but that's n