failing to look at the responsibility to forward it to another is not enough this commission has more time than the board of supervisors it's our responsibility to do the best we can to fully understand the issues which are brought in front of us and deliberately on them i believe in the ininconsistentcy of the language to resolve the issues the letters we got throughout the entire document inthat consistency of the page that's quite a long letter as you read through the document it says at the beginning point asterisk i'll building comfortable with the language but it has to be clear what you mean.

>> commissioner johnson. >> thank you just a couple of things 1 on the street trees i actually did last time but again did a find for everything it says street trees and every it says vegetation the context makes it clear i agree that one request that was made i think those this document for a glossary i don't know we need to go that far but having a definition of trees it's a simple change we don't have to change anything else but the context makes sense if you use the context of the entire package so that's fine the other thing on the financing mechanism i agree a commissioner hillis the best way to fund programs

especially the ones that benefit the property value there was a lot of work done around that how much money and other things but very little done on other methods of raising funds for street tree program that are not program i want to see a rounding out having 2 pages on parcel tax and two sentences on the community benefit district or other mechanisms to me seem not the best that we can do so that's but - so i'll actually add to the motion or suggest the analysis you've done on other mechanisms do we need to add that to the motion about the asterisk. >> i apologize the city

attorney for some comments at this moment. >> deputy city attorney marla burn i'm like an ordinance where the board of supervisors change before the board the general plan can only be approved - well, i'll classify the general plan words gets approved that i the body and the board of supervisors gets an up and down voted on what's recommend so unless the commission articulated line dwroits for staff at this hearing which the staff can then change and clearly it becomes farther part of the motion i'll recommend to continue the motion and allow the staff to make the changes once it gets to the board they'll not be able to make the changes and staff can't take a general recommendations and

write the language it's a slightly difference ordinance. >> what's in front of the commission to give the staff the direction on the changes we want to see i have concerns about the vegetation and others not concerned and other issues that commissioner johnson brought up the glossary. >> thank you, again i mentioned the glossary so is that was something that was brought up i don't think we need a glottisy but i'll make the suggestion to add the language around the street trees. >> commissioner richards i really want to support moving this forward today but the letter a page by page description of the issues we could spend 5 adheres getting the language exact and send to

the board but can't support not having that done today optimistic so i'm going to have to vote no, that's why i want to continue it. >> supervisors. >> giving the juice the city attorney we are to classify the issues of the believe so some results in changes to protect some in a memo of explanatory why we agree or disagree. >> so i may ask the commission secretary for help you think in order for the commission to provide clear directions would it that advisable to vote open those issues or not really a motion of continuance. >> there's a variety of issues

to the commissions a that's brought up as a concern we can take that route as before you vote on the overall motion or prior to continuing it if that is what. >> choose to do you can certainly have a voice vote or not have a head sequence take up the items each of you brought up individually there's another motion with a second floating out there to move and adapt it moving forward and i think we need to hear more from the commissions say we need a majority vote commissioner antonini. >> well, i'm willing to remove my second from the motion in commissioner fong will move his motion commissioner hillis i'm

sorry the clarity there should be american people definition of a tree. >> is that a street tree in that particular. >> yeah. street tree this is all about street trees and those are the things that you know most and then references have to be clear the other vegetation have to be you know clearly sub rids to the challenge as pointed out to the language we want to make sure it is clear we're talking about street trees here and not substituting as someone said a slush for a tree that's been taken out. >> commissioner moore and there is a repeated use of trees and

plants trees and vegetation and trees and landscaping and trees and greenery trees are part of all of that but to clearing create a clear definition of the landscape as a tree is what needs the definition so if you change the document for that type of last thing we'll pit together and clearly distinguish trees from flours or flowers or shrubs and how your plan referenced the street trees that can be done it's easy to do we have a letter and i'm not sure about the parts and pieces that identifies each page of what where it ours and how it is unclear can't use this

as a guide but if you look at the inconsistent use of the tree as a tree this is an important issue i'll port in commissioner johnson will give nor clarity or exemptions about the management planned and enforcement there is a photograph you can forward i'll support you in that idea. >> commissioner richards. >> so i'm referring to professor holts man's letter have you had a chance to see it it talks about an ininconsistentcy with the board of supervisors what we want to hear the definition of inconsistency and all the things that commissioner moore said he i'll forward the letter and we'll use that as a reference but inconsistency with the board of supervisors or a mandate plan

for the trees that's a very long letter i'll forward that to you and we'll start that. >> i move to say in defense of the plan we held a working group to define the process we engaged a group including some of the folks to define that on page 4 what is a urban forest we thought it made it clear and we included a footnote other definitions of forest coincidental and the program so there are a lot of different words floating out there maybe a glossary would be helpful and some of the terms dinah street tree and defining other

vegetation and defining greenery. >> a glossary will be great and we could do that. >> perfect and commissioner hillis. >> i'll recommend not getting two blogged down you'll be spending 6 months we see it here we're getting sucked into this the first page you canned disagree with page 6 i know trees and other forms of landscaping so are we're going to define landscaping and greenery and truck this is not what this is g about but to plant nor trees in the streets were there at&t park any anybody what drive or walk around and so

we need more trees open the streets this is not a new problem a few references an article in the 50s talked about needing more trees this is what a general plan is here for and this document you know this document says that saying where we want to get this date about implementation of a natural area plan or the eir natural plan this is a good document didn't threaten we're e me we're not defining what a street tree is 9 feet tail with green leafs but i mean good luck in trying to figure it out we may need more time to define between slushes and trees and landscaping and commissioner president wu so we don't go in circles if it's

okay. we'll stick to a notation there's an urban forest including the trees and canopy and their collective canopy as well as an under story what we're focusing a policy wise is the tree; right? that's the basic clarification we want to see okay. >> that's helpful. >> commissioner johnson. >> thank you very much maybe attempting to move forward this forward i'll make a motion to continue this item until november 30th. >> second. >> thank you very much and that's a second i don't think we need do we need to actually take a voice or whatever on this particular items to sound like everybody is saying the same thing and if i could i'll only actual heard two things the

terms and the financial management plan and . >> with the board of supervisors ordinance the reconciliation of the definition was not raised in one of the letters. >> with the glossary and the definition of terms being clarified. >> i want to clarify with commissioner johnson i heard you talk about the supporting document to this plan so maybe i can ask what your interests are. >> so i was going to say for the financial mechanisms old in the coming report i want to see staff provide an and i democrat or an additional memo on just property vs. non-property based

revenue mechanisms so we can lay out the options for the different types a property based a lot of that in the table but the non-property based i'd like to see other options i don't want to go back to a.d. coming but if the staff can provide a memo or something written. >> commissioner moore. >> my question would be isn't that the responsibility of the controller rather than of planning staff planning is not developing financial policy documents of how this city is supposed to run its affairs if you perhaps could help identify a potential source to ask those questions or get potential alternatives he spelled out.

>> it's looking at we still have under contract we can slightly enlarge that analysis but again, the goal is not to come up with a prescription financial plan for the general plan language h that should be a continuing forest as the resources that deepest you from adapt it as a general policy so john i'll ask is there something we can do between now and bringing that that back in two weeks to expand the tell us. >> we can produced a table getting into the property based. >> i mean inventory that is not something for the corral how much you can raise we don't need to do that but listing other mechanisms the report can be

adapted by reference whatever it there it there. >> if you want a special hearing on the financing proposal we'll happy to come in and do a whole thing with the dpw and - >> okay. >> so there's a motion maybe the gentleman can repeat it. >> well, i actually haven't heard a motion. >> i made a motion for november 30th. >> sorry i missed that so commissioner johnson made the motion and it was to be continued to november 30th q staff provide a glossary about the foliage and trees throughout the documented and provide a secondary financial plan with property vs. non-property in the

motivation commissioner antonini commissioner hillis no commissioner johnson commissioner moore commissioner richards president fong no and and commissioner president wu so moved, commissioners, that motion passes 57 to two with commissioner fong and commissioner hillis voting against. >> for the city attorney we did. >> there's no additional notice requested. >> commissioners moving right along item 16 for case on ocean avenue conditional use

authorization. >> sorry good afternoon. commissioner president wu and commissioners marseille what the department staff this case for a conditional use authorization to open a tobacco poor natural this authorization will allow a new business to open a tobacco store and lounge on the basement level of a 4 thousand plus square feet in the ocean avenue commercial strict in the balboa park station area the project sponsor proposed an outdoor that required a condominium conversion his request has been removed from the project the

business plan from 11:00 to 11:00 tail which allows the operation until 2:00 a.m. that was occupied by another store the new signage are proposed e cigarettes are regulated by the health code the plant has to get a permit foreperson for the e cigarettes from the public health department the department has received comment input about the project the ocean association has submitted a permit for the avenue cord the project sponsor has submitted letters from 21 businesses r with two signatures in support of the businesses the option letters have been received from the west side association and 21 members of

the public and surrounding neighbors have sent letters in opposition following the publication 50 e-mails were received from members of the public and surrounding members in support of the project and 5 e-mails were received in opposition i have copies if you want to see them please let me know the department has recommended approval with the extinct local business that brings diversity and the department recommends the approval with conditions as it is consistent with the general plan staff can rupture for a six months memorandum please note a draft motion has been submitted with the balboa park of the general plan that concludes my presentation. i'm available for any questions

thank you thank you project sponsor. >> good afternoon, commissioners i'm stefan a consultant to happy bake for the last 8 most i'm going to turn it over to the project sponsor who's been nonresponsive of 3 project for 8 most and weigh in on the end and introduce blake and his wife to blake. >> good afternoon, commissioners my name is blake he i was a heavy smoker smoking a pack a day and my wife was pretty good 2 1/2 years ago i decided to quit someone

introduced me to e cigarettes it helped me to win off my cigarette adaptation he had e cigarettes after 9 months of use occasionally i use sebdz with non-nicotine liquidity want to show you the public e cigarettes and e e e liquid are we'll go to the overhead please e cigarette is a battery-powered evaporate it vapors a liquid solution known as e liquid they

usually contain glis run and distilled water and flavoring and can contain nicotine in our packet that included states that e cigarettes helps with reduction there's no long-term studies all the studies are inclusive i was laid off from my job two years ago in october my wife who is also my business partner and i decided to start this business after extensive research our research indicated that people have to go through what i went through at the it worked and i want to help we live in the neighborhood i

attended the middle school sea also attended city college we're on a block with a mcd and blifld hall and two massage paralyzes and two tattoo shops i want to show you and the public what steam hookers are steam hooker is unique and different no tobacco no come busables and no nicotine and carcinogen we're

in the business to provide an alternative to traditional tobacco products harm reduction our store will be a designation place that will bring pedestrian traffic and vibrancy and bring life into ocean avenue which invest in san francisco neighborhood profile calls i quote dead blocks we have participate in meeting with the ocean avenue street life committee o m i participation group ocean association cb d it is a nonprofit organization that manages hundreds and 48 properties within the district you have a port letter from the o aa if you're package i quote

the ocean avenue association supports mr. he's proposal to open it open ocean avenue in the process of reaching out to our neighbors and inside homeowners association we've heard how our neighborhood is concerned about the outdoor sampling area we tried to limit the impact by limiting hours limiting amount of people, limiting amount of time of sampling but that was not good enough after the enar side homeowners association took 9 position my wife and i studied the letter and decided on a serious compromise to remove the outdoor sampling area from the best plan

and amended our application march who was the president of inside homeowners successors is happy to know we're accommodated our neighbors we have an individual letter she is happy we made the compromise from the ocean participation group it hurts the business a little bit and who have been nice for our consumers to try the flavors before purchasing them kind of like costing could but some people are not going to be happy when we give up something they're not happy with the boulevards and the tattoo shop i understand they took a position i permanent i respectfully sdra

with them some people say the produced they sell would be used for marijuana and their across the street and mcd but you have to be a member and patient to get in things they say are not going to happen i think our benefits this is not who we are and how we sell priorities that's not our intent we sell responsibility and will be courteous to our neighbors and post signage and we'll have we will trained staff to provide proper education to our customers i believe we will proof of the quality of life the west side association is opted to the project because