legislation --. >> that was for the california senior legislature. >> that was just for california, okay. >> anne warren, that's an entirely separate group. >> thank you. okay, next we have the case report. >> good morning, xhirs, petition with catholic charities representing case. we have several committees still working on our legislative and advisory and budget requests that we're going to be presenting to anne later this month. we have about 4 or 5 different categories we're working on, so more to come. our next meeting is monday, november 10th. it's going to be at project open hand on the second floor. our meeting is going to be about self-care, you know, burnout, stress, morale, and how to help employees and their leaders deal with those kinds of issues

especially this time of year with the holidays coming and it gets really busy. in december we have our annual holiday party. it is going to be moved to the first monday of the month so it will be december 1st and the place will be announced and we'll let you noah know ahead of time. on january the 6th we're going to be inviting dave kurto, he's already committed to coming and talk about contracts and how to work better between the cbo's and the departments and see if we can work out some of the glitches that have come up over the years. so very exciting, there's a lot going on, we have a busy crew doing all this subcommittee work and budgetary work. so lots to come. any questions? thank you. >> thank you.

okay, next we have a by laws committee report and i think we have some copies, i will give that report. we met and went over our bylaws. i will tell you where there were changes. i have about three or four copies, i hope i don't have the wrong copy, but anyway, i'm going to take the one that i have marked. >> i ask a clarifying question, you say you met, how many people were there when you meet. >> each committee that's what's in the bylaws and we'll go over that. >> no, you were talking about this committee, the committee, the pars3

bylaw committe. the people on the committee were myself, commissioner itani and (inaudible) that was all we did. we did seek the city attorney's approval, it was clear that we could change the bylaws and we did, okay? so we presented them to the commission for approval, okay? >> yeah, but you asked the city attorney see if you can meet and make the change and after you met and you make this change you did not show your changes to the city attorney. i just want to know the process. >> well, i think we need to vote on the changes that we were going to present to her and the whole commission need to approve them, then we will give them to her for approval. okay? >> very good. it's clear in

my mind now. when i follow you i know what to look for. >> thank you very much for asking. any other questions from commissioners? okay, we will proceed with page 1. the first thing we needed to change in our bylaws was our address. we had 875 stevens so that was one of the first changes we made. we added the new address on page 1 which would reflect the 1650 mission street and the phone number. so, with that, that's the first change we made to the bylaws. >> president james, for some of us that's page 2. it starts on page 1 then goes to page 2, just so you know. >> yes, it starts on page 1.

we had the old address was 875 stevenson so we changed it so it would reflect the 1650, which is on page 2. okay, could i have a motion to discuss --. >> so moved. >> so moved. >> second. >> okay, are there any questions about this change? is there any questions about this change? if none, i will call for the question. all in favor? opposes? ayes have it and so the motion is carried. the next change on page 2 we added words, if a commissioner misses more than 4 regularly scheduled meetings or committee meetings unless there are extenuating circumstances, which is family emergency or illness,

could i -- we changed the words because i just remembered some time ago we did have a commissioner that had a, i think a hip replacement or something and they had complications so i thought about that, a long illness, and i thought about that, that might need to be inserted to accommodate that commissioner. so that was the rationale that we came up with for changing this extenuating circumstances. is there, could i have a motion to discuss. >> so moved. >> second. >> okay, are there any questions, anybody want -- yes, commissioner seriina. >> i think this is a very good idea. i just have a question, is there a time period involved, is it four meetings within one year, 4 meetings

within an individual's term? it just says four so i didn't know if there was a time period. >> can we change it to four continuous absence. >> hold on. i want to answer his question. well, we thought about that. i looked at four regular scheduled, that seems to say if they are regularly scheduled meetings that would be four continuous meetings. you know, they are scheduled so that means you would have four regular meetings. at least that's the way i am interpreting. any other discussion on this point? >> yes, i have --. >> wait just a minute, i'm on this point, not on yours. so that was --. >> let me make sure i --. >> let him --. >> let me make sure i understand. if the meetings are scheduled for november and december of one calendar year as well as january and february of

the other calendar year, that would count as four consecutive --. >> right. i think in june or july we always miss july meetings so that's not a scheduled meeting so that's why i like the comment in terms of regularly scheduled meeting because we usually miss the month of is it july when you go to the convention, we usually do not have a meeting, a scheduled meeting in july, i think, or august, one of those months. and director hinton >> so to the commission secretary we have to report to the mayor's office about absences. do we do that on an annual basis or a quarterly? >> quarterly. >> but is it for a calendar year? >> we are expected to report to the mayor's office about attendance. we do

it quarterly and we do it based on a calendar year. >> commissioner ow, you have a question. >> i just wonder from four regular scheduled meeting, changing to three regular scheduled meeting. that's my purpose. that's my -- let me make a motion that from four regular scheduled commission meetings, instead of four, substitute three. >> you'd have to get a second. is there somebody want to second your motion? otherwise the change is already listed as four. do we have a second? hearing none, your motion dies. so it stays at four. there's no second to

your motion. so it stays as it is. your motion dies because you don't have a second. okay? so i'm going to call for the question. all in favor of leaving it as the four regular scheduled meetings say aye. opposes? the ayes have it and so the motion is carried. that one is passed. now we are moving forward to page 3. page 3 we had an added paragraph which is something, could i have a motion to discuss this? because this was not, this was, how shall i say it, there was an on-going appointment and we wanted to add to to make it legal to add it to

the bylaws. this is something that was being done but we wanted to make it legal in terms of putting it in our format. so that's why it's added. >> so moved. i make the motion. >> okay, we have a motion to have a second to discuss. >> seconded. >> you wanted to discuss it? >> i just think it's appropriate to read the motion. >> okay, we will read t the president will appoint one member of the commission to the public authority in home support services governing body subject to confirmation by the san francisco board of supervisors. so that's the way it's read. as of now, commissioner seriina is serving in that position and we just wanted to, there was not in our bylaws and we're adding it to the bylaws. any other commissioner? >> is that for one term of

four years or annually? >> it's subject to every four years, i think, approval by the board of supervisors subject to the appointment by the president. but as president james has pointed out, it has been an on-going practice that has not been institutionalized in the bylaws. >> currently or in the past i think we require con firmed by the board of supervisors or just appoint by the president of this commission is good enough. >> the appointment must be confirmed by the board of supervisors. the applicant will go to the rules committee and then the rules committee will make a recommendation to the full board. >> thank you for your information. >> there was a question about whether we should add the term every four years. is that -- because we

were not -- is that every 4 year term? so that probably i would, could we, do you want to make a motion to amend it to say every four years? >> so moved. >> i think a term of four -- a four year term is sufficient without the word every. you know, four year term is clear enough. >> okay. would you state your amendment, commissioner seriina. >> i would amend to say the appointment subject to the approval and confirmation by the san francisco board of supervisors will be renewed every four years as it comes due. >> will be renewed every four years. could i, you had a second? would the second --. >> second. >> it has been moved and

seconded that we amend this. the president will appoint one member of the commission to the public authority's in home support services governing body subject to confirmation by the san francisco board of supervisors will be renewed every four years. okay, all in favor? opposes? ayes have it and so the motion is carried. thank you. so we move that one. next on the subject to approval remove to page, i hope i have it right, page 6. okay, these are the added paragraphs, under standing committees. we

have, one of the things i really explained why we have it here because we have no orientation. so the bylaws will serve as an orientation as to what we are doing and why we are doing it so this is why we adding this to the, this making it very clear about what our role is to the public. so added paragraphs under the commission, the commission has four standing committees: finance, joint legislative, bylaws and nominating. under committees we have b, each committee shall have three commission members except legislative, which would be a joint that includes advisory council members. the joint committee shall have three commission

members and four advisory council members. now, before it read that we shall have from i think it was three to not more than five and so what we lacked at that and that is an even number so we have three commission members and 5 advisory council and that is not an even number. that's an even number. we needed an odd number like we have commissioners in case there was a vote so we made it four. they still have more members represented than commissioners but we did make it before and so we have come out with 7 members on the joint legislative committee and joint legislative committee of the

legislative committee, members from the advisory council and members from the commission. so, with that, i'd like to have a motion to approve items a and b under that and then would you want me to move on? i think maybe we'll just move that part a and b are there any questions? yes, okay. commissioner seriina. >> in the past if any member of the commission could attend a committee meeting and if the committee members were not present, all present, another commissioner could sit in on the meeting and vote on any issues to be recommended to the full

commission. is that still an option based on the revision of the bylaws or will all committee action require a quorum from the official committee members? >> i guess i would answer that saying now there were times when some commissioners were not able to serve on a committee and the president appointed somebody else to serve on that committee. and so in that circumstances i think the president should notify the legislative committee that somebody else is serving. but i know what you're saying. >> i think the question i perhaps did not articulate as clearly as i should have is that let us say that commissioners jones, smith and wilson are members of the finance

committee, but commissioners jones and wilson are not present when the finance committee meets. but two other commissioners are. will they be allowed to vote and constitute a quorum for that committee as it makes recommendations to the full board, or would that committee fail to meet because it does not have a quorum of official representatives? >> okay, let's take this committee. with this committee, what we're saying is that --. >> lets a take the finance committee. >> finance committee, okay. if you have three members on a committee, two is a quorum. >> i agree. what if two of the committee members fail to attend the meeting but two other commissioners come? >> no. >> then that committee would not be able to meet because it would

not have a quorum. >> right. >> that's a change from past practice. >> exactly. because what you are doing, you are substituting regular members who would know what is going on for new people who are coming on and would not know what had been going on on that committee. >> i have no problem with the changes, i think it should be articulated in the bylaws amendment that non-committee members of the commission cannot vote during committee meetings and would not be able to constitute a quorum. >> well, if non-committee members came to a meeting then you would have a commission meeting. and so --. >> again, and i don't wish to belabor the point because it happened frequently during the finance committee meetings when some members of the finance committee were unable to attend a regularly scheduled meeting, but other commissioners came. and as a

result we had sufficient members of the committee -- sufficient members of the commission to constitute a committee and take action and propose matters to the full commission. as i understand now that option would not be available. so if the finance committee was meeting to make recommendations to the full commission on specific budgetary issues but because some committee members fail to attend the meeting it did not have a quorum, yet other commission members were present, they would not be able to substitute for the missing commissioners, there would be no finance committee and therefore no recommendation to the full commission. either way it's okay, i just want to make sure we understand that. >> well, as i understand that, what i'm saying is that if you have three committee members and one member is absent , then you still have a quorum. two, well, you are in trouble.

i mean then you would -- that would be up to that committee chair at that time to call those two committee members if you feel comfortable enough because it has to come back to the whole commission to discuss anyway to approve that. >> i agree. >> so if that committee chair feels comfortable in appointing those two people temporarily to serve so that he can move the business on, it still has to come back to the full commission to discuss it, to approve of it, so they would have more information at that time than anybody else. so i would approve of that, going forward. >> so if i understand correctly there is no change regarding the practice that has been in place. >> no, there has been no change. >> the language is not clear. >> madam chair, what happened is you have appointed three committee

member into the finance committee. and in defense at certain dates they going to meet, but in advance two members of this committee inform the chairman that they will be absent, i think that this, let this bylaws change then the president of our commission can appoint two commissioners to put in the place of two absentee commissioners so that the finance committee will function. in the absence of two more

commissioners for that meeting, i think the chairman of the finance committee is able to appoint two substitutes but this two appointment must be a member of this commission. i hope i make clear. it's a possibility you know there's an absence in advance to a person in the finance committee informing the chairman at certain day, at certain meeting, two members will be absent. in that case the president of the board can appoint two commissioner to fulfill this meeting. now, on the meeting day, you know, during the meeting, it determined if this committee of three persons can appoint if the two

commissioners were present fulfilling their duties. >> well, i want to make this clear, that the chairperson, the president of the commission has an opportunity to appoint anybody to a committee and if i know people, the committee is not meeting because of absences then i need to know from the chair why that committee is not meeting. and if those people cannot serve then it's up to the chair to appoint other people who will serve on those committees. anne, did you have a question? >> just a comment. thank you, commissioner seriina, for reminding me of that tip situation and commission ow for clarifying because what has happened and as far as i know it's only been the finance committee, my recollection is that it's only been with finance, because secretly

the finance agenda was enormously interesting many commissioners would come to the meeting. so there would be in fact more commissioners attending than the three that were on the committee. but there were times at the very last minute, and the chair was not a member of the committee necessarily, so at the very last minute we'd get to the finance committee meeting and two wouldn't be there. and then the chair of the committee could then in fact ask, as commissioner ow was saying, if the ones that were there wanted to serve for that purpose. as i said, i think finance is the only one that i've seen this happen on. it may have happened with other committees and i'm not aware of it. typically we would not schedule a meeting if we knew two or three people could not be there. that would just be unwise. but there have been last-minute

emergencies that have come up for commissioners that have prevented us from doing a cancellation ahead of time. >> i think i did serve on finance in an emergency one time. i remember serving on that. in that circumstances i would approve of that chair finding the two commissioners who wanted to serve. is that --. >> in other words, two persons can appoint someone for that meeting only, one is the chairman of the commission, the chairperson of the commission, or the committee chairman. two person can appoint. >> yes. >> if there's two commissioner present. >> right, right. and if it continues and the chair says tes a problem then we would discuss it and we would replace that person off that committee. okay?

>> so we reword the --. >> i don't think we need to reword this because it's in the bylaws that the committee, that the president can appoint people to committees as necessary. and i don't know whether that means -- go ahead. >> the issue may be that, as director honton pointed out, the absences occur at the last minute and the president isn't present at the meeting and therefore the committee chair if there are other commissioners present, the committee chair should have the flexibility to invite other commissioners to serve on that committee for that specific meeting. i don't know that this language excludes that option but it certainly doesn't make it clear and i just raise the issue to be sure we still

have that flexibility. >> oh, good. i'm looking under, go aheading ahead, joint duties, the committee chair, maybe put it under there on page 7. when we get to page 7, joint duties of the committee chair, we can insert it there if wording is not correct. that's where i see a place for it. so after we go over those duties, i didn't think about that but as i look at this i think if we look at the duties of the committee chair we can insert the word in there, okay? would you go along with that? in the meantime i think we can move on this. we are moving on a and b committees, the four standing committees and the joint legislative committee shall have three commission memorandum bers. so can i have

a motion to approve added paragraphs under a and b >> so moved. >> okay, it's been moved and seconded that we approve under committees added paragraphs a and b all in favor? opposes, the ayes have it so the motion is carried. okay, now let's look at finance, i don't know, maybe we can take, unless it's a lot of wording, let's take one at a time with the finance committee because that came up. this committee will coordinate policies regarding the dos and all fiscal and beneficiary meetings. it shall hold no more than one meeting at a time that is reasonable for public comment. could i have a motion to discuss?