that we will present, that we have planned, and the document has a lot more details as to what our estimated number of participants will be served through direct nutrition education as well as indirect nutrition education through community health fairs that we will jointly do with cal fresh, with gph, and with the california extension. these are part of the plan that we have proposed and of course there is performance measures we will be measuring with nutrition as well as the tai chi program as part of the evaluation plan. those are detailed in the document that is shared with you.

is there any questions before i go through the budget? yes. >> commissioner. >> thank you for that summary and it's certainly a very worthwhile program. one question that is regarding the estimated target audience, is there any way that we can get participants to self-identify if they are comfortable regarding their sexual orientation or gender identity? certainly the council for senior center have an active number of openly gay attendees and it might be helpful if we can quantify those who are willing to self-identify. >> we will have participant intake forms and the gender does have the sexual orientation as they can mark off, uh-huh. >> i didn't see it here on the first page so that's why i brought up the issue. >> yeah, the state might not require that data but we can have our

own intake form basically capturing other information that would be helpful for us. >> thank you. >> uh-huh. >> other questions? >> this is from last month we didn't have a budget. >> correct. the second --. >> i thank you for bringing it because this is something the finance committee would have had a chance to approve, but i felt really --. >> we appall -- apologize. part of it is trying to get clarification from the state what they will approve. we didn't receive the updated corrected budget to them until the 3rd, which is this week. so the budget that you have, the first page is a summary of the cycle 1 and 2 budget amounts. the amount awarded for cycle 1 is $29,771 and cycle 2

is, if you look at the total row, the row that says total comes to $189,213. the state wants to identify how much is for administrative, how much is program costs so that's that. and details, again this is a draft budget based on a best estimate because we don't have any contractors yet based on what we had envisioned what the programs are and working with the information that we have in talking to recreation and parks and other contacts we completed this budget for the contract cycle 1

we had budgeted, you know, the administrative coordinator at 29 very much -- 2977, of course that's not spent, it's just a plugging number. page 3 we indicated operating expenses there is none, we are not ready to roll out the program yet. but page 4 of the budget, contractor 1 is to be determined and this is to provide education. the department of health has already issued a rfp for snap-ed and they have contractors in place, we will be

looking at those contractors to see if any of them would fit in providing education to the senior population and that would streamline the process of getting this program rolled up quickly. let's see, on page 5 the contractor one is just a breakout of the estimated staffing for the nutrition ed, how much is it for direct delivery and also part of it is the program administrative duties including data collection and reporting. so the total for the period 1 is $26,794 and that's for the

contractor budget. the other pages started for cycle 2 starts on page 8. there is all the administrative cost for administering the snap-ed budget is going to be in kind and we've listed the staff who is going to be working on this budget and this program and we have contract managers as well as finance analysts there and myself and then another administrative coordinator from daas who is also helping with this program and these are all in kind so that we don't, we basically kept majority of the funding for direct services. page 10 of the budget shows the contractors that will be providing the different parts of the snap-ed program. contractor 1 is the tai chi --

i'm sorry, is the gardening portion. the total is estimated to be $51,580 and contractor 2 is for the tai chi train the trainer including coordinators and the training is $36,267. and then the other pages gives you details how we estimate the staffing breakdown and that's on 11, page 11 is the contractor 1 that is for the gardening project. so a little bit project coordinator to coordinate the program, providing the technical assistance to the three sites, so estimated amount there is $9,885. >> madam chair, can i interrupt? >> no, let her finish. >> yeah, then we can go back. so you can see sort of the break out

because that's what we need to do for the state to identify how we will carry out the project and the staffing needed and the materials. page 13 of the budget gives you details of the breakout for the different costs for the gardening project including all the trees, all the labor involved in building the fence, the plans, the irrigation system, starting seeds, the tools needed for the gardening project, et cetera. page 14 is contractor 2. this is the health motion tai chi part of the program. and we have, because an important part of that is also delivering nutrition education for that we have built in a little bit of nutrition education and also project

coordinator to coordinate this program and collect all the necessary data pre and post for the participants who attend this program. and also you can see we have education materials including can urriculum that's going to be provided that's listed on page 15, about $3200, and a little bit travel training travel for this program and then about $3,000 that's on page 16 for the consultant, this is the master trainer who will be providing two days training. overall that's sort of the breakout for the different programs and again this is our best estimate. we will be providing and presenting the actual contract amount recommendation for these projects to you in the coming

months, either november or -- well, december is sort of the most earliest, i don't know if we'll be able to get there, but definitely by january. >> commissioner seriina. >> thank you very much, i certainly am impressed with the complexity of the detail the state wanted and i can see why it was such a challenge for you. question on the first page. that is the column says percentage difference between the contractors, it's 53 percent correct, it would seem to me it should be closer to 300 percent because the actual amount is $87,800 and the original amount was $2600. >> you are right and that's a formula i cannot correct because it's a state form but i will let them know they need to correct that formula. >> any other questions? commissioner ow. >> go page -- back to page

10, the second lot. for the tai chi trainer, $36,000 is roughly $3,000 per month, right? it's one year program. how many hours --. >> realistically it will be about six months. >> the first page you indicated starting in july 1st. >> correct, we didn't have any program implemented at all during july through september. >> i just wonder for this $36,000 how many hours he works or how many classes he going to train and you say this master tai chi trainer will train his students, right, so that his students will train other people.

>> correct. so the way this program will work is that the master trainer will be hired and then we will basically invite the community based organizations that have participants that meet the eligibility requirements for snap-ed. so actually on the last page of the snap-ed synopsis you can see we already pre-identified potential partners or meal sites that actually meet that requirement. in addition to that, if there are other nonprofits that are interested and meets those criteria, we certainly will be open. there would be requirements as part of attending the training they will be, they will need to be able to implement this tai chi program at the center x times a week, at least once or twice a week,

and collect the data that is needed so that we can report to the state. so there's going to be a little bit of strings astached so we can provide information back to the state. and the coordinator that would be hired, whoever the contractor would be, they will have staff to coordinate this program, to work with the community based organization who agree to come on and get their staff trained or volunteers trained to implement this program at the center and so this coordinator will provide the on-going support. >> you use the word coordinator. actually that's the master trainer, right? >> no, the master trainer is one time or two days training. this person, there's one from california -- the original master trainer's actually in oregon. so we'll kind of look at who, look at more recently to see

who else might be a master trainer that we can qualify and do it more effectively. >> this master trainer will be paid $36,000. >> no, no, no, $3,000. >> per month. >> one time, for the two-day training. it's listed in the, let me see what page. >> page 10 again. >> no, no. page 10 is the total overall roll up for the contractor 2, okay? so the details of the contractor 2 starts from page 14. >> i'm looking at page 14 now. >> right. so contractor 2 it

says staffing cost, this is the tai chi project and there's a little bit of money for nutrition education. also the project coordinator that i spoke about, this person will be to help coordinate, you know, with the cbo's that will be implementing the tai chi because they sent their volunteers to get trained. also on page 15 is the education training material costs including the curriculum and other outreach materials, et cetera, then on the last page, page 16 is the master trainer that is the $3,000. it's a one-time fee for two days training. >> on page 15 you have a travel expense. >> yes. >> for the trainer.

>> correct. >> a total of $600. so he's from oregon. >> we estimated that we have to include that in there if they are going to be coming from out of town, or even if they are in california they are going to ask for travel costs so we want to budget in there -- again, this is our estimate at this time until we actually negotiate and do all the stuff and follow the contracting protocol. >> why is the reason that you have to have somebody from oregon come to san francisco training? san francisco have quite a few master trainers in tai chi >> one of the reasons is we have to select a tai chi program that's already proven to be evidence based. the program moving for better balance is one of the proven programs. this program has been simplified in

terms of the tai chi forms and is appropriate for older adults. there are many, many tai chi forms and there are not that many trainers certified to be able to teach this program to other people who then can be certified leaders as tai chi leaders for their class. >> what is the process of selecting this master tai chi trainer from oregon? did you select this person? >> we have not selected them yet. we have to go through a process. >> but you already allocate $600 for the traveling. >> yes, based on the information from the state. >> well, let's get some information. >> wait, hold on a minute. when you do this i would assume that our director has some idea. when

you go into this you already have some ideas in order to make a budget where are the professional people that need to be, fit this category. so we need to trust our professionals that they know what they're doing. you just can't get anybody. so we do have -- wait a minute -- there's a protocol you have in the scientific community that you have people who have this kind of criteria that meets this criteria and i think you're going in too much in detail into that and we need to leave this subject up to the professionals knowing how to find the appropriate credentialled people that meet this criteria. so i --. >> point of order. this person has not been selected and yet you set aside $600 and he's not selected but

you just told us --. >> you have to put it in the budget. >> let me get some clarification, please don't interrupt. >> well, i will if you go too long. >> okay? all right? let me ask this question. who designate this $600 to be spent for traveling service? >> i would just like to interject that this is a state form and this is one time only money that we had very little advance knowledge that we would be getting. so we have -- and linda has been saying this -- we have had to estimate our costs in these categories that the state has already designed for us. we will be coming back to you in december or january with a for sure budget. this is a draft budget because the state has requested that draft budget of us, and so we are

making some asmptions based on some costs that have nothing to do with oregon or necessarily travel but have to do with the three programs that the state has agreed that we can go forward on with this one time only money. so we are giving you, because the question was asked for this commission meeting a preview of a draft budget that the state will actually have to approve. it's very backwards from how we usually do these things. the state will have to approve it, then we will come back to you for the final review of this budget. but these are just place holder numbers based on the best thinking that the state has and we have today. >> commissioner seriina. >> can i --. >> hold on, commission seriina. >> i would also like to remind my colleague on the commission that linda specifically stated that there are criteria that must be met

regarding this tai chi training and she has preliminarily identified a provider in oregon but has not selected that provider. if a local provider should become available then that option will be considered. budgets are not money that is spent already, it is money to be spent on a preliminary basis and they are subject to revision. i personally think that to micromanage $600 in travel expense and to belabor the point for this amount of time is not suitable for us as a commission or for member s of the public or to subject staff to that kind of detailed analysis when it's a preliminary basis and that has been articulated very clearly from the beginning. >> did i hear somebody say? it's on the record, we can turn back the, you know, the recording, that linda

means linda low? has determined somebody in oregon is qualified to be this tai chi instructor, right? you have determined -- we can roll back the --. >> let me clarify. based on the tai chi program that's been approved by the state and by the federal government it's the tai chi moving for better balance currently there are two master trainers, the original one, i said, is in oregon. he's the one that developed the program, went through the clinical studies, what-not, and got it approved. there are trainers that he trained, i believe one of them is in california. initially when we researched the project we did have to find out who is available and what programs we could go with and that's the information we have.

and one of the things we will be doing is to look at more recent information to see if any other qualified tai chi master trainer is available that is closer that we can use. so the master trainer has not been determined as indicated in the budget, but the dollar amounts we have to budget something in because that is required and that's based on our best information that we have right now. >> all right, you tell us that the state give you some sort of a, what kind of master trainer the state is looking for, right? you say you looking for a qualified --. >> we're looking for a qualified --. >> the state already give you some indication or job description

for this qualified master trainer. >> it has to be for a specific evidence-based program so it's not just a master trainer in tai chi, it's a master trainer in this particular evidence-based program which was begun in oregon. >> this document is your response to the state's money coming into this program, right? can you show us the state document that you received, the state document you study and then you respond like this. >> commissioner ow, commissioner ow, we would know what you get the information for. >> actually, linda --. >> point of order. >> point of order on you, all right? >> okay, listen. she has set up a budget. when you set up a budget you have to allow for some discretion as to whether you get a local or

further away. if she put in, she has to put in a budget, whether she provide local or what if she can't find anybody local? you have to put in a budget. i think you are belaboring the point and we're going to move this on. one question from commissioner, let somebody else, give somebody else an opportunity. commissioner low. >> this is one time only money and it's from july 30th and we are already six months into the budget. so do we have to spend all the money or can the money be carried over to next year? no. >> as far as we know the money cannot be carried over. we have every intention of being able to spend down the money starting from january

to june with our plan. the state has said there's a good chance they can get additional money going forward but of course they don't have confirmation until much later. >> commissioner seriina and we're going to move. >> thank you, president james. i just want to thank you, linda, for reminding us that the final budget for this program will be presented in one or two months and we will have an opportunity to review it. i personally have every confidence that the budget request, the budget that you have put together will reflect the state and federal requirements for this type of work and i want to thank you for having endured this questioning above and beyond the call of duty. >> thank you. >> point of order. point of order. >> commissioner, commissioner, commissioner itani. >> i had a very similar question as commissioner loo. i just want to say within the six months can we

assume more people can be served with that additional budget that we have since this is based on a fiscal year? >> well, the numbers that we have estimated were for that contracting period. so it is based on the estimated number of classes that will be held and once we have the contracts negotiated we'll be able to have closer numbers in terms of the number of clients being served and those will be also presented to you in the next one or two months. >> so within the six months, you really have to kind of pack all this and get the program going. >> yes, and providers have been informed about this coming up and we already have a lot of interest. so we're pretty confident that we'll be able to roll it out pretty quickly. i mean we're already, we've been planning this for a little while. >> and we have not selected

the contractor yet. >> right. >> the contractor have to, rfp have been sent out, yes? >> we will need to do an rfq for the gardening project but for the nutrition education because the city, and this is part of the dph, they actually have conducted a snap-ed rfp for similar services. the state does allow us to be able to use other contracts that the city has to implement this program. so we will be able to get that out quickly without doing another time-consuming rfp for the nutrition ed. >> that helps. thank you, linda. >> madam chair, i ask for point of order. please listen to my point of order before you rule. >> we couldn't have --. >> i do have point of order before you start. hold on, are you trying just, because you are gaveling me i cannot state my point of order?

>> there's nothing to -- we don't have any action on this. she is just reporting. you are spending a lot of time --. >> let's roll back the --. >> no, we are not going to roll back. >> see how many commissioners vote and i asked the question. we will be stand by this document. let me ask you on the corner of it i see a triple a, what is the triple a stand for,. >> area agency on aging. >> very good. >> commissioner, we don't have a point of order. >> we don't? i do have a point of order. i just informed it that this area of aging, i understand that now. another point of order --. >> we don't have a point of order as part of our commission process i think is what bridget is referring to. a

point of order is not part of this commission process. >> it's not a part of the process. >> i have to understand what is being given to me. snap, what does it stand for? when i ask what does three a stand for, i am told and i understand that. that's area aging. i appreciate you informing me. otherwise, you know, three a is automobile with something, you know. >> thank you. >> now my next point of order will be what is the word snap, snap budget. tell me what that stand for. >> sure. if you look at the synopsis it has the full name written on there for. it's supplemental nutrition assistance prap education.