>> okay. >> i think that to the right is an empty lot. >> okay, thanks. >> working on that lot too. >> are there any other thoughts from commissioners or questions? >> if not, thank you again p and i think that we would like to hear from the public and then, the matter will be with the commission after that. is there any public comment or anyone that would like to speak to this matter, please come up and state your name in the microphone and let us know your thoughts. you have two minutes. >> my name is sam deny son and you have heard my name before, i am a next door neighbor and i will give you i run down, i met him a year ago and gave him my card and said cup of tea and talk about your plans are. >> he told me that it would be a beer and wine bar with

limited music, great we will have someone there again. >> the reality is that i did not hear from him again and i heard from the neighbor that there was a liquor license and that i should go it that and i went to that and found out that he was planning to not for beer and wine, but we wanted to go for the hard liquor and i said give me a call and let's see what we can work out together. >> i got a call from the consultant and sorry that we did not contact you and i will tell you about the next thing that we do, that was the last that i heard and i regularly stopped by and said let's talk about this. my own experience living next door when the 222 club is open is a constant ongoing, throbbing and the reality is that our wall shares their walls and our foundation and their foundation, and it is a small space where the base reverberates i cannot imagine having the kind of entertainment experience without the high level of bass,

i have had my happy party days and when you get the thrill going you have the bass, that is when you want the edgy experience of the tender loin and what we had with the previous owner was honest attempt to do the security, but the reality was that most of the people want to have the drug and prostitution experience and that is also what we saw, and we had the experience that the officer talked about was a drop in especially with the problems around midnight and 2:00 last time i spoke to mr. living ston he said that he was interested in working with us but that wanted to have a 2:00 a.m. license and as soon as he got that he was not concerned, and it was not until i said look we need to work together and some other issues came in and the police officer was there and said that you need to work together and he changed his tune and gave me his phone number. the frustration that i have is we have been working towards the good neighborly relationship, i don't think

that a technobar will work there i was willing to work with him but we only started to get the conversation going at the 11th hour, my name is up and i wish that the sound checks a year ago or so. so i don't know if you want to ask me questions. >> we can't. >> okay. >> you told a very good story. >> thank you. >> other public comment? >> is there anyone else just by a show of hands that would like to speak to this? >> two more. okay, great. >> i am carmen barsodia, living at april fools and just to say and someone saying not holding accountable the past owners who were bad business owners they were not bad we had a good relationship with them. and honestly they worked on trying to control the sound and was impossible. and he would come over and put the sound up and touch the walls and try to change it. and shift it. there were two djs of the

conversation of the community meeting and both of them, used the language that this is a sound box. it is who the djs love to play in, and also very difficult to control. and i think that we had, and we have a good relationship with the past owners in that they would give us their phone numbers and we would call them when it was over the top and what became difficult was a battle between them and the djs because the dj wanted to play the sound so it would go down for a little bit and would rise again and we had ten years of this between the last two bar owners. and i think my questions are the sense that if it is going to be saturday and sunday, and again, just out of the experience, trying to make the business go, it moved in to 7

days a week. and so is there anything that would stop saturday and sundays from moving to seven days a week. you said that the security guard was at the conversation. >> he was present and he was outside and we were down stairs and so that was a des crepcy. >> and it is a residential street and they also complained with the noise thank you. >> thank you. >> i think that our next speaker

>> you may want to lower the microphone a little bit. >> my name is kate joger son and i am a resident, and co-founded and the founded of the work of the april fools on this block and i would like to present to you that you got a wonderful set of information about the people, about the building, but not about what the purpose of the building is, which is to do its work in the tender loin, which is to make that not just a safe and a you know, a safe and a clean, it seems to there be too, but we want it to be so that the

percentage of the ads of anybody looking at the information that you got that it is the people who want to live there and the people who want it to be a good place in the future, as well. you know you don't look at 222 as just another building. but that the work that the building and the people and put themselves on the line. were making it a better, better place. for us all. and you guys too. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> good evening, commissioners my name is greg moore and i am the program director and we are a little tiny senior center, and right around the corner on golden gate. prior to my time in the living room i was with the central ymca and also a long time

tender loin institution, and i have worked with various people in the, and in the april fools for i guess, the last 8 or nine years, on various activity and efforts to improve the tender loin. ranging from the annual hel and this safety fair, to the last year of spent working very closely with sam on market street and the coalition, and i also worked on some other efforts to improve the tender loin, and not with april fools, but tl, and the saint francis hospital foundation and the 100 blocks safety group. and so, i put a lot of time and effort into trying to create a better tender loin for the residents. and i have trust in everyone in

april fools and so when i hear them and i have heard them repeatedly talk to me about the noise problems, everything else that i have heard this evening, would only confirm that sound is going to be an issue. and the impact on the quality of life, is a huge concern and i have spent the time with the people trying to make it be a better neighborhood and i would hate to see it go for naught. >> is there any additional public comment? >> none, seeing none, public comment is closed. but we are hear from the police again. >> absolutely come up.

>> make it clear that the concerns that i have to have an ongoing relationship with someone that has said one thing and other things and kind of boil to the top. and i know that has been implied here several times but that is the biggest concern here that i am developing relationships with the business owners and property owners and we come to the agreement about stuff, and you know, this is the bed rock of our foundation over the last year is really, on jello right now and so that is a very significant part of this as well. and so, when we do get the calls in the middle of the night and we come to some agreement, i am not confident moving forward that those things are going to be followed through with. >> and thank you. >> and i don't see any public comments. >> and so the public comment is now closed. >> commissioners, clearly this is something that is not an easy task and i think that if you want to know my opinion i

am more inclined to have us approve this, with or to condition to to what we feel like is necessary in order to appease the neighbors you know that we have a variety of controls in which we have used in the past around the sound requirements and the portion of the security to the level of patrons. and around, you know, lighting and that kind of thing on the outside. and so, if we were to deny this, they could come back at some point and appeal. but i think that we have to have very clear reasons why we do deny it. you know we hear all of the time from neighbors, that they don't want their neighbor to be loud and they don't want you know, patrons to destroy the property and we still approve the permits but with a lot of conditions, and that is important if we want to think

of it, let's not out right deny it but what are the conditions that we want to put on it to make the business owner run the basement well. and so there are some conditions that were initially rescinded now, put on by and it sounds like they are in favor of a limited live, and more so i am guessing because of the hours. and so we could con this to be as early as ten and i don't think that we have done that before. >> let's entertain a motion and then we can talk about it. >> i will make a motion to deny it. >> so there is a motion to deny. >> i would like to second that and i would like to cite in the

code 1060.5, number three and number 4 as possible reasons. the premise or the proposed operation of the business, lacks adequate safe guards to prevent, emissions of noise or dust or odor that will interfere with the public hel and this welfare of the peaceful enjoyment of neighborhood property and also the permit applicant has not provided a security plan to address the safety of people and properties and the early dispersal of the individuals in traffic because i believe that he stated that is he till looking into security. and one of the reasons i am agreeing with this, is because i do not believe that going into this, we are going to be asking for anything but trouble because of the way that this was handled. and when you come to city hall,

and you go through, a meeting with the board of supervisors, and then you meet with the police, and every time you turn around there is another problem that has arisen, this to me does not imply good faith. >> can i ask, you to clarify. >> absolutely. >> so if there living ston were to be denied could he come back having shown that he has been at a later time has an appropriate security plan as approved by sfpd? as well as maybe, appropriate sound proofing and proof of that sound proofing could he then reapply? >> could the staff speak to that. >> i believe that he will have to wait one year. >> okay. >> but he does, again, have the option to go to the board of appeals. how this works is this commission if it is going to deny, he has a short window, and it is an expedited process.

and staff would have to go in front of the board of appeals and try to explain what this commission has decided. >> normally we have a security plan submitted within the application, is there not one? or was there... >> he did not submit one? >> okay. thank you. >> that clarifies that. >> i am more inclined not to so call deny it, but you know, everybody should get an opportunity, you know, i remember when i had to do it and took over a really bad place, and i had the opportunity to turn it around and i think that the problem here is the time. and i think that he needs a proving period to prove to the neighbors and the police that he could be a good operator and i am more inclined to instead of denying the permit, let him

operate, even if it is a limited live, we change it to ten, and with the revisions and 6 months later to see if we can go to midnight. that is better than denying it complily, and give him a chance and i am not happy about him not having a head of security and he is going to have to do that if he is going to get me more hours and that is just my opinion does that start from today or from when he applied? >> it is from the denial >> and then for the second thing, could he pull it right now? and won't be affected his request prior to us taking action. >> i think that there is a number of things this that he could do, he could withdraw, or ask for another continuance, or you could move for another continuance, but there is a

clock ticking also. i believe that it is 90 days. >> sorry, i misspoke. >> okay, so, there are options for the applicant, hopefully he was paying attention. but there is also a motion, so is there any further discussion? i think that you know, i would again, to continue this to say that it was to approve it from what, at the restricted hours or for three months at restricted hours and as the time passes, to lift those conditions, but, you know, the motion on the table is to deny, so, if there is not any further discussion, i am happy to take it for a vote. >> i wanted to say again, that there is an issue with the security plan, is that not correct? >> and i mean, that i feel like

the issue >> there isn't one. >> yeah. >> and so here we are, talking about someone getting a permit, who is going to be handling alcohol in a neighborhood that is and if we are going to talk about putting responsible people in places where they can do business, and they will take the public and the community as part of the goal to run a successful business, that is not what i am seeing in this application. nor is it anything that has led up to the filing and the discussion around this application. >> and so, i think that this splitting hairs is not really, this is not the application to

do that. >> commissioner lee? >> quickly and i am sorry to interrupt as a point of clarification, the applicant did not submit a separate plan but in the application we do have the area of security and that is the plan that he answered, so he is considering that in his security plan and often, we accept those. >> we have in the standard conditioned it so that they provide a more thorough security plan that the staff can review and approve. >> right, and again i am going to say that i have been directed to treat each one as an individual case and therefore i am treating this as an individual case. >> i am with you on the security plan, small place it is a lounge, and the extra music that he wants to do is a little bit extensive you know, if he thinks that he can handle it, there is going to be a lot of conditioning and i think

that it is hard enough already, to have it open to ten. he is not going to be able to do much, at least the dialogue and he has been working with the neighbors on what is happening up to ten or eleven, or whatever we decide and i am just thinking that he needs to learn something and i know that he does not have the experience and it does not seem like it and obviously he is learning right now that he might lose this thing, but at the same time, his hours, you know, sometimes having music to ten, and it helps for happy hour, business but it is not going to help in a club business and to have a full security plan it is not like he has 800 people come in, the only capacity is 49. how much of a security plan do you want to have? >> i would have him in charge, of the security to have the security experience, that is where i am coming from. >> i would like to agree with you. but i do think that the music until ten would be a wonderful

thing and that could be accomplished with a limited live. >> which we are not discussing. >> i grew up on the 400 block on hyde street and i saw that place as a kid and as an adult, i truly believe that having a nighttime business in i am not sure what the calls for business, i heard someone screaming verses i heard a gun shot, or i was mugged or a robbery going on and there are a lot of forms of that, but i do believe that by having more people feel like they can come to the tender loin and party in the tender loin and go home safe, and it is good for the neighborhood. it is going to be someone else

come ng and we have to make sure that this place is going to run well, and because i know that captain said that you know, he is not so sure if this is appropriate for the place of entertainment but when you look at the planning code, it is otherwise we will not be hearing it right now. so this is a mixed use, neighborhood and we always deal with many parts of the city that have to deal with neighbors, verses the businesses, and night clubs. so, i think that i want to make that point and i think that there is a potential here that we are losing, if we choose to deny it and we are further delaying, i think what everyone wants for the tender loin, which is, safe and great place to be. >> okay. >> commissioner? >> and so then i would like to reply that we are not denying him the ability to do business. what we are here discussing is a permit for entertainment and in extremely small venue, surrounded by places, i applied to live in the apartment

upstairs, and i went there at night and i am telling you, this is not a place for a dj and i think that when we allow, we say, well, it is allowed here and do not work on making sure that night life is a integrated part of the neighborhood, we are not doing the neighborhood a service, we are not doing him a service and we are certainly not doing night life in general a service. >> all right. i think that we are actually all and we are all have the same goals how do we get there? so let's take a vote and the motion is to deny the permit. >> we have a motion and a second on the motion is to deny this permit and commissioner frost? >> yes. >> commissioner moshoyannis?

>> yes. >> commissioner lee? >> for. >> commissioner tan? >> no. >> commissioner hyde. >> yes. >> all right the motion passes. the permit is denied. do you, you will see why some commissioners believe that to be denied. >> just, i am sorry a point of order, i believe that we need four votes based on this. >> you are right. >> and in order to move that... >> you are right. >> so the motion fails. >> the motion fails. thank you for catching that. >> you don't have many. >> you don't want to. >> okay. >> and so, that leaves us at less talk about it more. the motion... >> okay. >> we have to entertain another motion. >> i like to make a new motion. >> what is your motion? >> so on the poe change the same thing as we always do with the good neighborhood policy and all of that, but, make it

ten. ten, for 6 months, and i mean, they were going for limited live, and she is already here and we are just changing the hours and giving a shot at until ten. and for a 6 months. and then let the police department and the neighbors if they, and they have any other problems and they have passed the sound and then we can move to 12. >> i mean. >> all right, so the motion is to approve with a condition that entertainment ends at ten p.m. >> and as a point of clarification, commissioner lee is that every day or is it sunday through saturday? >> or is it just weekends? or do you want... >> so the applicant is going for every day. so, i mean, ten, i would say, every day. all right. so the motion is to approve, with condition that entertainment ends at 10 p.m.

every day. is there any thoughts on that, is there or do you have any other conditions besides that? >> is that the only one? >> okay. >> i think that my biggest concern having listened to the community and the police, are that this particular establishment is not structurally set up to be this kind of venue. >> and not every place is. and now that said, i would like to explore some kind of sound proofing requirement. >> yes. >> and i mean, is that, do you want to? >> yes, so commissioner moshoyannis we have put the condition on the previous permits where the entertainment is not allowed until adequate sound proofing has been installed, this particular venue has not undergone a sound test and they will, and we can put that as a condition and then list it once the adequate sound proofing has been installed. >> that is what i would like to see, that is really what most

people are here to talk about. so let's get to addressing that concern. >> so, sound is part of the permit. >> and we can put a condition on it. >> so two conditions, ten pm every night and additionally we can check and we can actually set a limit to that sound at a certain decibel, is that fine? >> of course. >> and i think that the sound test should happen next door too.

>> i would like to see it approved by the captain, personally. >> okay. >> and so... >> and it is approved by sfpd. and by the entertainment commission, staff? >> sure. >> and i was wondering if we could if maybe we should not move this and see the security plan before we move on and have them come back if two weeks. >> i trust them and i am fine

to leave that in as a condition. >> i have full faith that if that is a condition, and then, that it requires the station captain to sign-off, and then it requires that, period. >> because what has happened in the past and certain things have agreed upon and at the last minute it changes. >> okay. >> and the commissioners, this would be a conditional grant, any way. and then if there is a violation that can be pulled. >> right. >> yeah. >> and i mean this is until ten still and so we have to operate until ten. >> and, that is another thing, and i mean if we are going to grant this permit, ten seems..., i mean if we are going to grant it shs ten seems

like, i mean, the police offered a limited live and that is the time limit. >> and it sounds early to me, if we are going to grant a poe and we are going to grant and poe, and then i don't like it and let's see if the operator can handle it. and i think that we are just answering to the public's cry and the police department's cry that they want him to have a little bit more experience. >> right, i don't... >> i am going to take commissioner frost and then if you want to respond to that, you can go ahead and do that. >> just a question, if we do approve with these restrictions, how long does he have to wait before he comes back to ask for those restrictions to be lifted. >> so we can put a time line on that. >> and i know, can