typically going to be an issue with the maintenance surrounding the trees. based on google street view looking at images over multiple years it looks like perhaps in 2007 they were planted. you can see three young palms planted together in a single tree basin and there's a for sale sign. it looks like likely realtor trying to gus say up the frontage just went a little exuberantly and planted a number of palm trees in a single basin. with that said, we don't feel like we need to amount to vigorous defense of this. it's unusual, but want to provide perspective on why we denied it at department level. we acknowledge it's an unusual setting. >> you made reference that the palms don't do a lot of sidewalk damage. would that be true of the plum treatments as well, or olive,

which i gather are more common in that neighborhood? >> olive tree would do more sidewalk damage, plum trees less damage so ranking them in order of least concern would be the palms, and then the plums and then the olives are. one challenge is that we might have one owner who loves the palm trees so we try to be consistent at the department al level, but i understand the property owner's concerns. >> are they accurate about the cost of the maintenance? >> well, the citation they made is accurate. there is information on the public works website. we're in the process of relinquishing maintenance to property owners to try to give the public a sense of what it costs to maintain an average street tree. i believe we've put in $500 every year or two so if you multiply that by four trees

that would be $2,000. however, realistically i would currently estimate it would be a few hundred dollars to have someone snip off the lower prawns. >> what would be the big deal about removing them? >> the department's policy is typically if a tree is relatively healthy and sustainable to keep the tree in place. the smaller palm is less concerning, it's unusual. they're not creating a problem, not impeding the public right of way. the trees are young so don't have required clearance over the tree. we don't expect a young treel to have 14 feet of clearance, but eventually they'll have required clearance over the sidewalk so our reluctance to approve stems from the fact that if we let everyone remove their trees now and start

over with new trees we'd have no mature trees because most of the public when faced with the costs to maintain them are on a budget and they want to remove the tree and start over and set the clock back on maintenance costs so we're trying to keep a gate keeper and keep these larger trees in the public right of way. >> what about the issue of safety, high winds and prawns falling. >> on mission street we have a number of very tall mexican sand palms and we have top trun those every couple years to prune off the lower deld prawns. in the right wind condition when the prawns detach from the tree can blow quite a bit in the wind, pick up some speed and at the base of the mexican sand palm it has sharp thorns at the base of them. if queen palms don't have

those bashes on them and prawns -- you're more like lil to prawn those off in time because they'll start browning occupant and once every two years just have them pruned off. i feel they're pretty safe. i nine, we have at least 50 very large, tall mexican palms on mission street with very few -- i mean, i can't think of a single claim or injury that i can think of in the last ten years from the prawns striking someone and causing someone damage. >> thank you. >> sure. >> what does the department think about the removal of a second palm, the mention xan palm? >> sure. . one possibility would be to allow the mexican palm. the middle tree is the

mexican sand palm. one option would be to remove the mexican sand palm, which is between the taller queen palms so i'd say we're here to defends our denial, but admit it's an unusual case and are open to the direction from the commissioners. >> are there other palms in the neighborhood or is it primarily plums and olives? >> there's no real precedent or consistency. there's not a lot of other palm trees so it's not matching a pattern or species in that immediate neighborhood in any way? >> is there a dominant spees species in the neighborhood? >> i would have to rack my mind, but there's not a lot of palm trees in that general area so it's not like it contributes to the neighborhood character in terms of a single species planting.

>> thank you. >> couple questions. your first picture it looked like there was overhead wires in the tree and the brief states the palms can reach 100 feet. as it matures won't that be a problem for the overheadlines? >> probably the biggest challenge with the overheadlines is right now. the trees, the palm prawns are right now. now they're at their most movement they have in high winds. the power lines out there, there's a service drop so there's no overhead power, no high voltage and low voltage. it brings electricity from the main lines across the street to the home in addition to phone and cable. these lines are designed to absorb a lot of movement. we tend to recommend folks to allow the canopy to kovrz these lower lines and hide them. as the palms grow taller

they'll have a single stem which will be moving a little bit so we have less concern about the service drops to the property. >> okay. and then the last question i have is that with four palms so closely together as they mature won't the root ball expand a bit as well. if the root become were to expand on the center palm it appears to me it would disrupt both the two queen palms. >> is size of the palms, the base of the trunks will get a little bit larger. they -- the mexican sand palm, the side of that trunk will actually stay relatively the same and become a little bit smaller as it gets much much taller. i.t. will lose a lot of those lower frauns that fluffs off. >> i'm concerned about the root ball below the surface. >> they're in a tight setting. with time the tree basin could be expanded slightly.

right now the queen palms are on the edges of the tree basin so it would prior expanding the basin a foot or two in another direction to keep the palm base from impacting tg sidewalk. >> at full -- in your experience for the mexican palm at full growth what would the root ball width be? >> it will all be taking place below ground and would interact well with the other existing palms so i wouldn't see the root ball expansion as a primary concern. i think it's just the overall sense of house appropriate is it to have three palms tucked into a single space and i would say the department reluctantly denied this request for removal. we have property owners change hands. we heard from the property owner, they're committed to living there long time so we're sympathetic to that but

what one person finds to be nice, we don't expect every property to look that way, but we're trying to balance just keeping some of this relatively healthy. we acknowledge that long term it's an unusual situation. >> thank you. >> could you call media services and see if they can get the closed captioning to start working. thank you. is there public comment on this item? anyone to speak on public comment . seeing none we have rebuttal from the appellants. three minutes of rebuttal. 3 4 f1 >> this is my wife, chloe. i didn't sign up to live in key west, so i just wanted to say that. a few notes, we had a palm tree arborist come out, check it out. he looked at photos of the site and i quote him, in my

professional opinion this is far too many palms to xram into such a small space and are in fact unsuitable palms to use in this planter even if all were cut down but one. those are his words. another note, mr. buck said the lower prawns can be pruned, but it's my understanding that with the short tree you can't lop off the top of a tree so i don't think that's an option for the smaller trees. as far as sidewalk damage go, we just replaced six squares on our sidewalk this last year and i i've heard the dpw speak in this form that some trees are better than others so any tree can give you sidewalk damage so i don't know if that's consideration. i'd much prefer to have a mature tree there.

i would like to just plant a smaller tree and start've and watch it mature along with our daughter. >> thank you, mr. buck, for your comments. i think it's wonderful you're considering removing one or two of the trees. the trees are coexisting reasonably in the neighborhood. every conversation we've had with neighbors sitting on the stoop feels that because they don't match the neighborhood, no one feels they're a friendly presence they'd like to have in their neighborhood. it's not like a set of trees that people don't have an opinion, but this wasn't correct when it was put in and we'd prefer to have something that fits the neighborhood. while well appreciate removing two trees and that choub a good compromise, the cost still to maintain two in one

station seems exorbitant and unfair and if we're going to go that far, wouldn't it be nice to meet with the neighborhood and our neighborhoods have expressed along with us to go back to the way that the trees were originally on that street. also, if they were put in in about 2007 which sounds about right because the house was put on the market in 2007 they're not that mature and we could consider putting in a more mature tree so we don't have to wait seven years to reach a similar canopy. . >> thank you. >> have you looked into the cost of relocation of these trees? >> wech. we have. >> last time i moved two fully mature palms stored them and moved them back after the project was completed $50,000. >> wasn't that high, but we have a palm tree remover who

will remove the trees for us for a very reasonable price. he would then sell them to somebody else and make money that way so that -- >> okay. >> from a financial standpoint there's an option to donate them at a higher cost. but open for negotiation. >> thank you. >> mr. buck, any rebuttal? >> chris buck, urban forestry. no rebuttal at this time. thank you. >> thank you. commissioners the matter's submitted. >> should i start? >> sure. >> okay. i'm not a fan of the red flower plum mr. buck and i have had conversations regarding that, i do think there is some serious overcrowding in this planter.

i don't necessarily believe that all of them should believe removed and replaced by one tree, but at a minimum two of these need to go away. one is definitely in the pedestrian right of way, which is, you know, right at eye length for a young adult, which would not be a safe situation. >> i think the current situation if nothing else is aesthetically displeasing and i think it's an odd compromise to get rid of a couple so i would lean more towards getting rid of all of them. >> i'm the one who always allows it. >> okay. >> motion, madam president? >> i'll move to grant the

appeal and allow the removal of the trees on the basis that it is more suitable to the neighborhood and there's justification for removing them. >> are we going to have a condition in regards to replacement? >> yes, maybe we need some help in terms of that in size. >> have they discussed what thiep of tree they'd like to replace it with? >> they did say their desire to replant with a more traditional street tree, either evergreen or something that's more what you think of when you think of a street tree so they stated that on their application. in terms of replacement size our bear minimum that we require if someone voluntarily wants to plant a tree is a 15 gallon tree, the next size up, which is a very basic modest

increase would be a 24 inch box size tree. certainly at a minimum i would say approval with a single 24 inch box tree at a bear minimum would be recommended. the next step up is a 36 inch box size tree. requires a little bit of a small crane or knuckle boom, actually to plant that. it's a heavy amount of soil in a container. that said, if the palms are going to be relocated there could be equipment that's there to take out existing palms, maybe a different contractor is planning the replacement. one possibility would be replanting with a 36 inch box tree just to bump up. >> give an idea from a very basic to a 36, how long of a timeframe of general

maintenance would that be? >> a couple years growth so not a very significant difference between a 24 and 36 inch box treez. >> on a recent project here in the city one of your inspectors indicated that was the standard now. >> 26 inch is now the standard for all planning code for new driveways so 24 inch box is a minimum. >> i'm prepared to propose a 24 inch box replacement. >> you okay with that? >> to be determined by the department? >> i like that. gl so we have a motion then.result are you ready for that? great.

>> giving the dpw the ultimate say on the species, correct? >> yes.

as mr. buck would argue or mark merced would argue, it withstood three different storms over the past seven days, didn't fall, not one branch fell. i would like to hear mr. buck tonight provide some evidence

that there was property damage or human injury from this tree. he can want provide any reports pause there are none. the tree is healthy, he claims that there's decay in the tree. there's very little decay in the tree. he'll probably show you pictures that there is, but there isn't. the argument is nonsensical. the owners of park merced claim they're going to replace this tree, along with another one that we don't have a picture here with a redwood tree and as you know, redwood trees can grow several hundred feet has maintained they dend

to replace every tree that they remove and we have evidence to the contrary that they have not been doing this. i was here a year ago arguing on behalf of the trees parkwood way. they never came up with a plan to replace those 200 dree trees that they cross cutted so please don't mrooef believe anything that is put forward by park merced or its contractor who i believe behave as mercenaries when it comes to tree removal. it's all about business and

money. another argument i want to make here is mr. buck and bureau of urban forestry have yet to put forth any evidence that they have conducted a bio diversity report on this tree or any other one. this tree is a home to a number of birds that live in park merced. they haven't performed their due diligence in providing you, me or the public a bio diversity report as to the significance of this tree and the habitat it provides to these birds. another argument that i would make is that the option in h the event that mr. buck and the department of bureau of urban forest tree believe this tree poses a risk to the public, they haven't provided an option of cabling the tree if they think it's going to fall. there's nothing in his

arguments that pose that solution, that the tree can be cabled. finally, commissioners, this block is slated to be torn down within ten years, if you believe par merced's demolition schedule. why not leave the tree standing? there's no evidence that it poses a risk to the public. let it stand, let it live its life out in park merced until the wrecking crews come. i'll leave it at that and let you hear from mr. buck and then any here member of the public. thank you. >> is there someone here from arbor well? anyone here for the permit holder?

no? okay, mr. buck then, let's hear from you. >> good evening commissioners, chris buck, with urban forestry. go to overhead. we received an application in april for the removal of two trees, one -- we actually received an application from the applicant for the removal of this tree, it was one tree, the tree that broke in half. while they were on site we noticed they had a dead tree in the front yard setback area and we brought that to their attention that it requires permit. so the application to remove one treel turned ed into an

application to remove two trees, the street tree on the left and the one on the right in this photo. the public right of way is approximately designated in the red line. everything to the left of this image is in the right of way. the property line is approximately where this red line is located so the olive tree is within 10 feet and would require a permit in order for park merced to remove that tree. the tree on private property the significant tree is dead and if the tree was larger we would have posted a 15 day emergency notice on it notice of hazard to expedite the removal of the tree. the 15 day notice allows the department and property owner to remove the tree in a more expeditious manner so that hazard can be addressed. typically that's what we do, but again, the tree's not that large so the relative hazard based on the smaller size of the tree was not present and knowing that we get a lot of

protests and want to be consistent we did a 30 day notice on a dead tree. the street tree shown -- i have another photo we received a call from arbor well and merced the day after it split in half. the tree had two main stems and a significant amount of decay present in the stem that failed and a significant amount of decay present in the remaining stem. the existing stem of the tree is full of decay. a lot of the main stem of the tree is completely decayed including the fact that the entire stem is opened up so you don't have a single column where you might have a hollow. trees can remain strong and intact where you have a pure

cylinder when you don't have a breech but when you take ail way the wall of the outer tree. this was a very straightforward and easy decision on our part one of the easier decisions i've had all yeerl for tree removal. extensive amount of decay. very easy from our perspective. we ask you up hold our permit to approve the removal of both trees. our recommendation is that they be replanted with 24 inch box size replacement trees. >> is that a requirement then that it be replaced? >> it is a requirement so the san francisco or urban forestry ordinance, article 16 of the pub hick works code and that requires that ever street tree and sigz nif tree be replanted within six months after the permit's issued. >> are you able to monitor that to see if it happens. >> well do. we don't have the staffing to

check every individual permit that we've issued. fortunately in san francisco we have depend on the public quite a bit to let us know. they'll call into 311 and say it's been a few months, i don't see a replacement tree so we follow up. there is enforcement. it's not i ron clad sometimes it takes a call into us to see if the property owner has been lagging behind a little bit but we have a mechanism of enforcement and we will fine the property owner if they fail to replant the required replacementment tree. >> how about here? >> in this particular case, park merced, a little pit bit of background from my perspective, i was with the department in 2005 evaluating all removal applications for two years. never once received and application from park merced. in 2007 they were removing trees?