fta finding that would be advantageous for the planning department having to identify opportunity tomato housing on under developed parcels this could repeal e hench the funding sources for the project it's difficult to increase the immensity in the areas specifically due to lack of transit capacity with the addition of the central by the way, there could be opportunity to contribute to the housing and jobs as island outlined in the planned bay area in addition as piloted the importance called out in the report for a possible future station entrance site and for construction assess in north beach i courage a targeted study to be initiated to identify

other sites and recommend other appropriate opportunity that exist day thank you. >> thank you. >> good afternoon pat valentine with the vice president of the south beach mission bay association and also on behalf of the next stop it's interesting that this presentation came right after the one on the warriors because expending the central subway up to fisherman's wharf with the north beach station certainly would help a lot with getting folks down to the venue someone that works and lives in the south beach mission bay this northeast south connection is critical for bringing folks down and getting to north beach you can't even get to the alone fisherman's wharf so with that value being important and the land use contemplations i want

to double down on what bruce said in supporting and asking the planning department to study a planning study focused on the station both at north beach and fisherman's wharf that will be critical figuring out where those station are and how important they are to the neighborhood and the whole eastern side of the city is an important actual realty thank you very much. >> thank you. >> commissioners julie north beach resident i'm part of the super task force on the t line and one of the founder of the next stop we draw your attention to this matter today because we think the subway is important to the city and especially to the northeast neighborhood informs first subway kind of exciting this report is important before this report the expectation feel tooift was not an line item now

we have our san mateo's we can apply to college specifically, we draw your attention because the report i think is a in this case opportunity paul said in a conversation it was a once in a career opportunity to really do transit planning right one of the things we like about the study it include the planning department in transit planning we think with this body and the planning department and the city that's a wonderful thing i got involved in the project initially to try to mitigate the negative impacts of the t line i believe the extension of the t line is a way to preserve the northeast neighborhoods i believe the reduction and congestion the benefits to pedestrians and the surface transit users are numerous and a lot of good can come from this

we've seen the negative impacts of the bus stop in the middle of the cafe door or the bulb outs put without regards to the design of the beveled we've looked at the bart entrances along moiths and we've seen open parkland as open space to be used for station entrances from the transit side there are t line stops in chinatown and union square that are blocks off because of surface conditions we have an opportunity in advance to plan for to necessary extension that benefits the effectiveed neighborhood and showing you shows you what a san francisco, california do when it plans right we would like to help with the body and the planning department in continuing the collaboration certainly the questions about the time missing the disruption to north beach

and maximizing the opportunity that this building will bring is important part same to the impacts on fisherman's wharf so we appreciate our interest and your time and ask for your help in looking at this from a planning prospective as it move forward thank you. >> thank you as next speaker comes up i'll call one name and howard. >> there are smaller priorities than the subway moreno the whole transit system quickly and for less costs is better than draining the costs for a subway for instance better projects transit perchal streets prop c of 2003 highest priority free shuttle bus loop systems

the e e line and the downtown important need we are also concerned about the subways quack an land values high cost of raems the driving up of rent costs of property chinatown is already seen that at the subway station north yet to be built washington street merchant are logging 50 to 70 percent of revenue the upper blocks uphill from the chinatown station are logging population radically and seeing psychosis e sro's in chinatown being pressured for the justification central subways phase one has already cut service drawing not only in north beach the line was

also o lost and the 41 and the t and 12 are no longer extended to the wafer we started to lose the connection at fisherman's wharf when it was built now the merchant are wanting more i don't think so and the fta report to offset the operating costs per year and also the central subway phase 2 is only a two car maximum because the station mrafrmd were cut it will never carry full capacity of the market street corridors the phase two eliminates all the bart and metro station that carries hundreds of thousands of riders r will nonetheless have the assessing access connecting

market street so the warriors arena is lows trains than it does now because telegraph hill goes to embarcadero all the metro stations gos through that t line connection what is needed a study of hottest trend in the united states free shuttle bus loops looking at the every other city in this country. >> thank you >> next speaker. >> thank you commissioner president wu and my name is joe butler an architect and thirty year resident he formerly vice president of formerly of the russian hill neighbors i'd like to make a few points the ramp to surface to subway to surface trains is distinct advantage to

fill the fillmore geary intersection and the two report is the shortest distance but it he said at kicking land yard it moves the ramp and like sidney australia they're built above a business terminal you can do exude kirkland at the time sfmta request b pittsburgh up until it in the 50 feet of the subway station an undermine business yard below surface and 5 stories of affordable and middle-income housing the computation of that generated didn't makes sense and the sidney are a great example to combine the two the triangle

loop is redundant and it's studied to go to fort mason and it will be a block from the kirkland yard station one other thing i understand that stations are expensive but rather than do a triangle last year loop if there's another station to let people out at bay street it will interface better with the existing bus system i think if the subway is going to go through i'm the middle child between julie and paul this would be the adaptation of the survey and the duplex e adaptation of that survey and the respect for the historic resources that exist in the area

will go a long way towards revolving some of the issues that all of the lower buildings that came in after the earthquake will go away the neighborhood will be up to 65 feet or more and the quality we love about that part of the city that draw people from all over the world will be lost we can do both. >> we can do both the less we spend open digging the subway the more we'll have for the other muni lines thank you very much. >> thank you. is there any additional public comment okay seeing none, public comment is closed i want to thank all the staff for their presentation i also agree that the project sponsor between 3 organizations is important it remind me of commissioner johnson request for a joint hearing that's something

i also wanting to be more involved in transit issues when we consider the transit opportunity we have to think about the land use that is exactly what we did i want to align myself with the job comments it is important, important people to have access to come to fisherman's wharf and go to their jobs but also people living in the northeast to access other jobs and to bart it is interesting eave heard this on the warriors the northwest connection with chinatown and fisherman's wharf this could be a tourist line for the city so i want to hear what the other commissions have to say. >> commissioner antonini. >> thank you for a excellent presentation 1942 unfortunate that type of study explicit

occur along the ago the logical length of this subway should have gone to north beach and reasonable to fisherman's wharf for the reasons people have stated already which i run into people downtown tourist the first one they want to go to say north beach and the second the wafer most hotels are located close to the central subway where it is going to be located so allow people to assess those areas quickly and is an important thing yes. the up line is a great thing i want to fully it support it's extension but a currently last year type of lines people have to go to the circle and get to fisherman's wharf and the mason this is not competing with the f line that will allow

people coming from the ferry building or the financial district but people in the middle of the city will be more likely to use the subway so i don't think it is competition he think the best way to do that is to you know be underground all the way again your competing with everywhere else if you can leave the streets open for pedestrians and bicyclists and cars for all their uses and less buses in the middle of the street you're better off obviously you'll have to voluntary both but the more you go below grade the better. >> what was brought up in the report and nobody discussed it today waltz the phase 4 this is way in the future what are we're going to do to reach the western

part of the city there are phase 4 some sort of subway coming out north beach and going underneath beacon hill and educating the machinery and union street this is important as we make decisions on the station at north beach we don't preclude that option and make it flexible enough to so that it could be added on in the future that's an area it is greatly underserved my business is there i enjoy the walk to get to north beach but adversities not the easiest thing to do the busses take longer than so i think that that's something we have to consider too i want to really study this go to the sites to find a way to

hold onto the project the project sponsor can build it but a way to have the land available to the future station that goes underneath columbus that's a big benefit other sites the triangle block in front of the washington square bar and grill and powell street and that site is a possibility for future entry of boring machines or entry into the station itself or the asian pacific islander green site when our looking at washington square not a lot of possibility as far as raising money the kicking land yard presents an opportunity we have to analyze

the buses extort at kirkland are they use in all part of the city we happen to have a bus yard there if the latter than probably the generated could be duplicate someplace in the city and make it available for sale purposes you could realize a lot of revenue to pay for this whole thing by being able to sell that property development and saving part of it for the station and the things you need i also think that the suggestion of keeping if the buses have to stay there putting them below grade and also something that could be worked with the owner and have something that is maturing beneficial this is sort of the 09 end of central selma we're talking about a study we're going to be analyzing the

approval for the central selma in the next few months this is the other side of the coin this area to the north nobody is a talking about changing north beach or chinatown but i think the area around fisherman's wharf is under utilized lots of low rise buildings you could upgrade that and up zone it dense, if any, is and get the revenue to complete that thing it would increase the values you should be all in favor we want they know to be worth more not less i like the reports about the there of rifrpd this will provide and the transit times you can look at the finance community as part of it but get some of our revenue from

public-private sources urging the land that surround fisherman's wharf area and you are high priority for federal funding a that's on par thing between the serious you can find the money by it's important this be done as expeditiously as possible you have a subway that end in the middle of chinatown that's as far as you get to get to north beach it's an area that is dormant at night which the subway stations end this is 90 in no way subtracting from the downtown extension yeah, that's a top priority we need the funding roadway to make that a reality but if it explicit mean we can't be exploring it so it's

important i've visited a lot of cities in america and throughout the world in the eastern part of the united states and even the western cities are developing subway systems and transit systems that move people quickly to the parts of city we're one of the density one it is interesting we should have had had one hundred years ago. >> thank you commissioner fong. >> this item is one sort of for me, the fun part of sitting over on the commission to think about the future but to preserve the charm and history of san francisco i think an underground network solves both of those issues in my opinion if san francisco wants to move away from a kerosene restrict city this is important the cities paris and

new york and hong kong what separates us as commissioner antonini mentioned this is an underground network i know it's expensive us thinking about 2050 but for san francisco survival that's what we need are that i want to pick up on the fisherman's wharf benefit district by the way, who was voted the best in san francisco number of employees that work at fisherman's wharf and the all the hotels and restaurants we enjoy a large percentage live in san francisco this is the optimum job creation live and work in the city situation that we created but he speaking the truth about folks not being able to get to the wafer and companies that are willing to provide insurance and retain the

employees it is a very serious problem this will help address that i'm in support of this. >> commissioner johnson. >> thank you very much thank you to the staff for all you are work and as a commission moves just because i'm going to ask for a joint hearing with sfmta i really think we need to marry policy together not to sound nice but it allows us to plan our policies i'll say specifically in a joint hearing font effort what i want to know in the sfmta what will help from the planning department to help move this along we're looking at joint opportunity around the city and looking at different land use and zoning controls that might help a little bit i

would love to hear about it hear about what specifically the planning department and the planning commission can do to help and the other thing i'll say the commissioner mentions it is funny we have this over after the warriors item i think it would have been a triple threat if we had it object the same day as well, we could bring the sfmta and have the meeting i've asked for (laughter) but specifically look at the kirkland yard it's a potential revenue thing to pay for it in general the public sites is looking at affordable housing development and it's a perfect toint opportunity to do that lets look at it i have a question for staff first of all, thank you first my prop and letters get mixed up

prop m the ballot measure that passed not to build below embarcadero b i'm sorry did i say m b does that apply to my of the things that go down to kirkland yard and the proposition on the that passes only applies to port controlled. >> some of them are and some are not it's a mix. >> i'll add the analysis we do didn't include the port properties in here. >> excellent that was my question. >> i also think all underground is the best option for one thing it will help to especially maintain the character of north beach it will be a little bit of an inconvenience i lived in new

york city so i think longing long run undergrounding this extension b will help maintain the character of north beach and want to echo a comment to commissioner antonini we should escape our minds open this is not restricted to this area how the subway could 30sh8 be out to other neighborhood that is a generational question not necessarily for today but keep that option on how we can have you ever had your deposition taken get this to extend itself across our great city thank you. >> can i follow-up commissioner johnson were you looking for a draft response i also have a question what is the continuing reilly role of the planning department either in the 3

processes the ta and the mta process a and the other one or something like that invest accident neighborhood another forum for the agents to get involved knowing we're doing working upcoming. >> in general the answer is we'll be involved not knowing the scope of the coming phases i think i mean it is fair to say and i want to thank everyone on the teams because it is fair to say we're much more engaged with the transportation issues in understanding the relationship between transportation in the city this was what the transit center plan was on a bigger scale i don't know if anyone has a specific response but i'm happy to - >> josh with the planning staff

the planning will be deeply involved in the long term transportation led by the ta and the sf or transportation plan or the regional capacity study and the magnifying real capacity study we've been involved and will continue to have you're working relationship with the agencies and the budget in the upcoming months you'll see that reflected in both our promoted work program and possibly our budget apps. >> commissioner richards. >> i think looking at this moving forward is a great idea i have questions though north beach is one of the immensity neighbors and chinatown it is one of the harder places to get to fisherman's wharf the f line start in my neighborhood it is a rough you ride

i guess one of the questions i have is if we extend this for phase 3 how much of this will be go towards mitigating existing conditions so if we go ahead and do this i expect the north beach area and fisherman's wharf will take in addition growth and not just have this as a mitigation measure i'm looking at the arcade plan there were issues and if you want to get support in the north beach area adapt the plan i i understand what explicit need to be perceived and good zoning but north beach will 3r0e7b8 need to take the 2 hundred thousand resident in the next 15 reinforces if we did this ms. robertson hit the nail on the head when she showed the

data we need to look at some type of survey staff mentioned something in the upcoming budget ms. christensen what do you imagine that to look like we have budget discussions in less than 4 weeks. >> because north beach and fisherman's wharf were sort of baked especially north beach this kind of change is going to have impact i'm concerned about migrating the gangs we want to have as less of damage as possible but the addition of those hubs are a benefit to the community we've seen building work with the market and van ness site and other projects the new wave urban planning you don't ask community you act open it you don't go through the

motions but incorporate that thinking so that major upheaval has a benefit component involved a lot of the planning department involvement has been more about answering funding issues where can we address density no right in order to find the funding i'm interested in the duck tailing and things that surround the public helm we have plaza not sites for drug dealing and trash but rather a place for community to come together it is an asset rather than a negative i don't want my neighborhood to be destroyed mr. larkin is doing that kind of work in fisherman's wharf planning around conrad square and james weldon johnson street to improve fisherman's wharf from a pedestrian and action point of view