i mean if we are going to grant it shs ten seems like, i mean, the police offered a limited live and that is the time limit. >> and it sounds early to me, if we are going to grant a poe and we are going to grant and poe, and then i don't like it and let's see if the operator can handle it. and i think that we are just answering to the public's cry and the police department's cry that they want him to have a little bit more experience. >> right, i don't... >> i am going to take commissioner frost and then if you want to respond to that, you can go ahead and do that. >> just a question, if we do approve with these restrictions, how long does he

have to wait before he comes back to ask for those restrictions to be lifted. >> so we can put a time line on that. >> and i know, can you do it or is it a new permit. >> yeah. you can do it whenever he wantsment >> they did say 6 months but i think that they have a different opinion at this point. >> does that help? >> six months. >> and we have done that in the past two, where the people come back to us in six months and if they have been good and done all of the things that required of them, and we list them, or modify them to be a step further. >> so just cami do you have all of those. >> i believe that i do and we don't have a second yet. >> it was the motion right now which does not have a second would be to grant the permit, with hours entertainment allowed only until ten p.m. for

6 months, and then, the applicant can return and we will revisit that condition. and no entertainment until adequate sound proofing has been installed and a sound test has been performed and levels set. and more details security plan which will be approved by the san francisco police department and the entertainment commission. >> i second. >> there is a second. >> great. >> and any further discussion or clarification, if not, let's take it to a vote. >> all right. >> on that motion that i just read. >> commissioner hyde? >> no. >> commissioner lee? >> yes. >> commissioner moshoyannis? >> yes. >> commissioner frost. >> no. >> and president tan. >> aye. >> and we are stalemate and so let's so what is going to sway, well you have been swayed. >> i am trying to compromise. >> do we want a shorter time

frame. or are you just saying no out right? and i guess that it is directed at commissioner hyde and... >> to me really is the he says that he did the community out reach and that is another thing that i saw in that he had the neighbors from two doors down come in and talk. well, i look at a, or one of the letters that was sent or it was an e-mail and there were three people from the neighbors that were there. and that one organization, and then later on, some more showed up and so i don't know really how much community out reach that he did other than appeasing them. from what i see of the history of this, and he you know we are all on our best behavior when we are going for something. you know, and that is it and i want to sell myself and i want everything. and i don't see this here. and that is my concern, and you know, that was two weeks ago, and i made a statement here about what will happen if something happened, nothing, you know, i am thinking that

maybe the guy should not go back and work, you know a little bit harder. i know that i am getting looks about do we have a right to disapprove or not approve his permit. it is not, he has not done the out reach and whether it is just to the police department, or to abc. or to the community. i just don't see it there. and that is where i am coming from. if i get the... and i understand that he is not experienced and i totally get that. because i am involved in stuff like that and i am not experienced. but he does not seem to be going and trying to learn from the experience and that is where i do have the problem. >> thank you for sharing that. commissioner hyde and then i have an idea. >> and then i would just like to echo that and because right here on the neighborhood contacts and the first one is alliance for a better district six and then i flip back to

this letter from cain and xhix members and the second paragraph, he has made no attempts to introduce himself or the plans for the venue to the immediate neighbors or the event out reach and this is coming from alliance for a better district six. >> it is just a point of clarification, the grounds of denial which you have, don't include the community out reach. >> and while you are trying to under score a problem, that is not the basis of the denial of a permit. >> correct. two things that i stated number three and number four. >> here is my idea. i think in the interest of time i think that we should probably continue the item. and so, that he has a little bit more time to do more community out reach and then come back to us on the 16th? is that the next meeting?

>> so that gives you two weeks, are the people comfortable with that and if so, i am happy to entertain a motion to continue and i think that it will alleviate some of the questions that we might have, that we could potentially ask to the police afterwards, too. >> motion to continue. >> all right, a motion to continue to the next meeting. >> is there a second >> second. >> on the motion to continue. >> commissioner? >> aye. >> anybodisinger moshoyannis. >> aye. >> commissioner hyde? >> i am going to say no. >> and president tan. >> aye. >> that motion passes. >> that is great. >> and so, that will be heard again in two weeks. hopefully you heard all of the comments and you can address them. >> as always. >> we do have one more applicant here today. >> yes we do, this will be the lindsey schott doing business

as proxy and they give you a hand out that you can look through and this is that outdoor space that is been there in the haze valley for about four years, and they have the ice cream place and the coffee place and they have kind of pop up shops and that sort of things and they are seeking a limited live per permit and it is unusual it is the first one where there are no walls or ceiling and we have done the hub, and there are three months, sort of increments and the sort of a schedule and they would like to do this ongoing. >> and hi. i am douglas and i am the principal of the architecture and design and our firm is the creator of proxy and we are the operator of proxy. and also, we see, and we see ourselves as the stewards of proxy. it is an activation of two formerly vacant lots. and which were part of the

octavia boulevard parcel and we responded to the rfp from the mayor's office of workforce and economic development where they were looking for activation of these city owned lots. and we responded for these lots, which are adjacent to patricia green, between felt street and haze street on octavia boulevard. proxy is intended to be a mixture of both culture and commerce. and we have retail there, with apparel. and we have the food, there, with coffee and the ice cream and also the beer garden. and juice shop. and we have other community serving kind of activators including streets of san francisco bicycle tours and

basic training which is outdoor fitness training company. and which operates out of the event space that we are hoping to create with this llp. we received planning approval for these two separate lots and we have received environmental review for these or for our use there. and we have gotten approval from the board of supervisors, and we have a lease with the city, until, the end of 2020. and for this lot or for these two lots, and the idea is that after we are gone, the whole thing picks up and goes away. and there will be housing there over retail. we have worked very closely with the haze valley

neighborhood association in creating proxy, we go to every single haze valley neighborhood association meeting where members of the haze valley neighborhood association. we see ourselves as a part of the community. and we also work closely with the mayor's office. anything that comes up, that is of question, we are constantly working with the mayor's office. we see ourselves as strong stewards of this idea, of urban activation. and it is important for our own reputation. our plans with the llp, is actually primarily around the outdoor movie and we are hoping to have a fall film festival. and we have interest with the silent film festival folks and the exploretorium has expressed interest for being able to provide their content in an outdoor venue.

but we are also interested in doing live music. and sfjazz, which is a neighbor of hours two blocks away has expressed interest in having some of their outdoor performances happen at proxy. but with all of that, we are not in, we are not looking to be a club, we are not looking to be a kind of consistent, outdoor venue, it is an occasional outdoor use that we are looking for. and we will always be notifying the neighbors through the haze valley neighborhood association through our website, and through our conversations with neighbors. we are there, and we are on the site and making the thing happen all of the time. just in terms of the out reach that we have done for this llp. we presented specifically the llp, at the haze valley neighborhood association meeting on october 23rd. we also presented to the haze

valley artist coalition meeting, also, in october. we went through an addendum to our site permit with the planning department and we did a 312 neighborhood notification, which is a notification of every neighbor within 300 feet and we went through that process between september 22nd and october 23rd. and we received no negative comments during that period. we received letters of support, which we have provided to you from bill bucly, and the haze valley neighborhood president and mr. brigham, who is a resident of haze valley and also the co-founder of the haze valley arts coalition and from one of the vendors either apparel. and i am happy to answer any questions that you might have. >> thank you.

commissioners? questions? >> so many questions, i love this by the way, just on the face of it. but the questions that i have are when you say that this is a temporary project, what is the duration? it is existing already. >> it has been in the original idea was that it was going to be a 3-year project, but once we got started it actually took a whole year that you can get anything on the ground and opened. so, the mayor's office and the board of supervisors gave us an immediate extension on our lease. and so we got a five-year extension and we recently got a five year extension on our lease and so we have a lease through the end of 2020. >> okay, great. >> and then if there is no other plans, for those lots >> possibly further. >> it could go on further but there is no promise of that or from the mayor's office or anything. >> sure. >> when you say on occasion that there would be limited live kind of..., is that like, once or twice a month?

what are you thinking kind of... >> i think that we are thinking that we would only do films in the spring or in the fall. because we have to and it has to be dark to do a film. >> right. >> and it does not get dark in the summer. >> but like once a week? >> thursday friday, saturday. >> okay. >> not typically during the week, that is not our intention. >> okay. >> and then, i would assume that you know, any live music performances would be the same kind of time period. >> or i otherwise i see it, and you would have to trend, probably earlier so that they would start on a saturday afternoon and go into saturday evening, but we know that there is a ten p.m. curfew on noise limitation and the neighborhood and so we will look to actually close it down before that. >> thank you. >> commissioner lee. >> can you tell me the sound system that you are using? >> right now we don't have a

sound system the plan is once we get the approvals to do a kick starter campaign which will be the digital projecter that will happen in the spring and that we really see this as kind of a soft on opening. maybe there might be a film in one or two live performances that will happen in the spring. >> and in the fall, we are hoping to have a real film festival. >> and i think that... >> we don't have, and we don't, we don't own it. >> yeah. >> i think that the films and it is not the big issue, i mean that you could plug into a powered speaker. >> i am concerned maybe, when you have the (inaudible) and they bring in their own equipment and things like that. and sometimes it is hard, you know, it is hard for us sometimes in the outdoor venue to really know how loud one should be. >> yeah. >> this is why they wanted to get more help on the outdoor permitting. >> right. >> because it is kind of new for us. >> and but i see that in their

photos there is a lot of, you know, buildings facing this lot, you know, and i am just, i am just hoping that the speakers will be shooting the other way, or kind of away from... >> yeah. >> right, they are shooting and they are basically shooting into the space, that the way that the proxy is now, is actually open very much on the haze and the octavia side and our plan is to actually build two more containers that are retail containers and we are doing that this spring. and so it is essentially will create a more of an enterror courtyard and so this is really yeah. >> and it is kind of more what we are planning to have, and so really, this is a movie theater, right there. >> and then, the event space will happen on the inside of that and so there would be some more containment at the edge. >> just so you are aware that

one of the things that you get the most complaints about is the people are just standing outside with the beers in hand and talking. >> we are not doing the alcohol. >> sorry, eliminate that element and the people standing outside and talking because there is music happening in doors. >> right. >> i think that we want to be cautious about how i have no reason that we don't think that we are going to get this permit, just to be cautious that this is one of the first things that we are not park and rec and this is a venue of the city that, or of in the public open land that we are trying to allow you to amplify the sound. >> right, i mean that we are acting with the city with the mayor's office and with the neighborhood and i mean that we are going to be saying that we are going to try it out and try it small and then we are going to be like how did that go? >> are you okay to be the guinea pigs? >> we have been the guinea pigs

for years, years. with the planning department, to do temporary uses and activation with the building department to do the buildings that were kind of opened air, and it has been great. >> commissioner hyde? >> yeah. i think that this is a great project. and i think that with activation of open spaces throughout the city that it is really going to bring a new element to our city and i am really glad that this is going to be happening there hopefully. >> thank you. >> we have not bet it on yet. >> i am really excited too. i grew up in the tender loin but i live in the haze valley and so i am there often and i hope that they never build housing on that parcel of land because of the way that you approached it and not just innovative but community building too, but that i think is incredible for you know, for any neighborhood to have. >> so, any other comments? before i open it up to the

public comment? >> mini golf definitely happening. >> yes it will. >> okay. >> sorry. >> is there any police comment on this? >> right don't we, and why don't you go ahead and have a seat, thank you very much for coming. >> thank you. >> should i give you my opinion on how thrilled i am about this? >> yeah. >> please do, yeah. >> first of all, thank you for allowing me to come up i am the captain of the northern police and i know thatvy been before this commission before and i am hear to talk about perspective from the law enforcement and the concerns that we have but before do i that i think that it is important for me to acknowledge that proxy in this process has really been a good partner with the neighbors. and i know that they have been

involved in the haze valley neighborhood association and i go to the meetings often, the public safety meetings and i know that they are part of the community and i went to the meeting last night with the haze valley and spoke with the president about the concerns that i had and i told him and i promised him that even though i have some concerns, that i wanted to the entertainment commission to know that this is not a personal thing on proxy and they have been a good partner to the community and no matter where this goes at the will continue to be as we go forward. a couple of concerns that we have from law enforcement as we first started out is that this is a venue that is different from any other type of venue whether it is a place of entertainment or a limited one and that being that it is an outdoor venue and i know that it is allowed as far as the current statute is, but i know that from a law enforcement perspective, we are generally going to have to deal with some of the concerns of the

neighborhood in the community and once a position is in place or once a department is authorized. and so, with that, the question that i had for a lot of the command staff was what was our opinion from the law enforcement on how we are going to look at this and a couple of concerns came up for us and they really have to do with the codes that we have, currently and if you don't mind, i am going to read, i am going to read one of them. commissioner hyde, you spoke about earlier 1060.1, section three where it talks about the permits that are issued and one of the things is the general type and the presentation of a live performance at a limited performance local will generate the type of traffic that will cause the congestion and i don't see that as an issue here, effect the safety of persons and i don't see that as an issue although we could have

the crowds that are there, and impede the orderly disbursal of individuals and traffic, they have a pretty good plan in place for that and i don't see that, and it depends on how many people show up. >> interfere with the peace and the enjoyment due to the accessive noise and factor, that is the concern in this, is what is it going to be? in the past i have it quite a bit of experience working large venues.

when we look at section 2900, and it talks about what our responsibilities are from the city. when it comes to community and i will just reiterate what that says, the general plan for san francisco, identifies news as a serious poe lunt ant that must be managed through planning and development process but given our dense environment in san francisco has a significant challenge of effecting public health through the community noise arising from sources such as construction and mechanical equipment and entertainment and human and animal behavior. we have the equipment and so i

don't want to be against it but it is hard for us not to look at that and i want that to be put on record that is how we feel because we are going to have to respond to that. >> that being been said, when you vote for whether you are going to approve this, there are a couple of other things that i think we want to have out there as far as conditions. they talked about in the past they will give us a calendar and i think that they will continue to do that, i don't know what our ability is to do some sound testing when they do get the system in place, and i think that we would like to have some agreement to that as to what we could do and i know that it is a testing process when it comes to what the sound levels are. i know that the ordinance is after ten, but i think that we are kidding ourself and fooling ourselfs if we think that there is a band that is playing, and it is going on 7:00 or 8:00 and

it is becoming so loud that it is bouncing off the buildings we are going to get the complaints. they did not have a security plan in the plan that they gave. and i think that because they are not sure what events they are going to have but if they have the private parties or the things that are going on, and you know, absent, moving and so forth, and it would be important to have if they are going to have the event and what security they are going to have with the constant communication with the permit officer as to what they are going to be and i would like to see the security plan for that. and, you know, that having been said, i want to be supportive of this too, like i said proxy is going to be there and i think that it is a positive activation of an area that needed it. but i know that from a law enforcement perspective what we have to deal with when it comes to the complaints even though it is powers that you know generally you would think that the people would be

understanding for that when you are life thering and it is going to be more difficult. so i just wanted to go on record where we look at from the law enforcement perspective and how it has to be looked at in the city and i will let you go on your vote from there and because i think that it is a sticky situation, but one that i think that we could end up resolving through it. but i wanted to put our two cents in into that. >> and with that i am happy to answer any questions. >> just to clarify, for limited live performance permits we don't actually ask for security plan and so it is not mandated as part of the permit. the spirit of the limited live permit is not to say, have a nightclub, and you can have a door man and you have to check ids and have the people drinking, it is really to say that there is an existing use, which is not entertainment and we want to enhance that use by bringing in live music or movie and that kind of thing and so that is, and this is... and i think that is why we don't require the security plans and so i understand that they may

need the security and it sounds like we may codify something like that but that is the background on that. and a question maybe to the staff, for the sound testing, could we set the db limit at a certain number of feet or how can that work? >> so. i was looking for it right now, but, the police code and i am not sure if it is 40 and it is between 43 and 49 and i think that it might be 47, two, but it stipulates for the sound outdoors to 250 feet from the last person attending. so that is a way and that is a dip in the code, whether that works or not with respect to where the buildings actually are, and like you know, we could sort of, you know, maneuver that around and or, absent testing and sites some buildings if need be. but ultimately that is in the code, as it relates to outdoor

sound. >> or they are proposing the shipping containers to be walls and we can do it from the edge of the wall. >> and i will be mindful that sometimes it makes it worse, depending on the travel and as it hits something as you go, and so if it hits something and it goes in another direction, it might be causing more harm than good. it might be better to disburse it further and we will manage the volume the way that at&t park was managed on night two. >> right. >> and they are in the zones or whatever. to try to pull it back, and until we hit a point with the system that we are familiar with and asked that they use that same system. >> consist ley. >> and commissioner frost and moshoyannis? >> yeah, on the sound permit, i don't know if this is directed to mrt police, but we have heard in the past, depending on the weather and the cloud cover and the different things, and

so, this is going to be a work to progress because if our, you know, inspectors go out there and they do the sound check and it is going to be great on one night, but then the next night, something that we are going to be getting a the of calls. >> i hope that, i hope that size and scope of this is going to be wildly different than the kind of thing that we are atmosphere conditions are and because those were, again, the big systems at at&t or treasure island musical festival and i am thinking that the issues may not be as much of an issue for something small like this if we could get them to use a pa that is the same and set in a place and then we will not have wild changes by virtue of the different entertainment is. >> commissioner moshoyannis? >> just a point of clarification, my understanding is that i spoke with audrey

before the meeting she was under the impression that there was entertainment done last summer with limited, if any complaints from neighbors. is that the case? i see you nodding your head. >> were there any complaints? >> we looked at noise complaints that we have had from the area and i don't know if we went back to last year, fairly confident that had been there large complaints in the neighborhood about the accessive noise that i would have heard about it, so i will trust that there was not at the time, but i don't know what level of the entertainment that it was. and if you are talking about the band out there and they are loud and i think that you are talking about something different and is that a one day poe that was issued and i could let my permit officer talk if he ever calls and i am confident that he would have received a lot of complaints. or i