seems like starbuck's and he applaud whole foods to have limited live is very unusual it maybe start a persistence around town we'll get more entertainment for the shoppers in the afternoon i'm going to approve this. >> second. >> let's take a vote. >> on that motion commissioner frost commissioner lee commissioner moshoyannis commissioner perez commissioner tan. >> all right. good luck with that. >> we're going to move on to item 67 is the discussion and possible action 0 for the approval of the special action jocelyn. >> yes. that's me another memo that looks like lee the other

memo on this item just to be brief there's a part of 1060 that was passed some years ago actually that allowed this commission to create a special permit for certain things this conversation is going to center around which dates and understanding what we mean by this procedure ultimately breaks down to the city gets busy on certain 40i8dz this is a holiday so and there is especially new years eve the intendedcy for people to do parties in odd places and people to do thing you you know a little bit last night they ought to that trickles down to our office and the police department in various points to respond

with our permission implement a special procedure for whatever days you think are appropriate so we can approve with conditions we don't normally approve or disapprove and again this is coming from a code section that is attached if you want to read the actual code section behind the memo that allows you to do this no one wants to disapprove a permit but there is common places not giving advance enough or stressing out the sources that the city has a particular night you can allow up to 12 days we've got them out to 9 device if you're counting it is really

9 and, you know, there could be more but those are typically what we see and st. patrick's today not syncould demay it is new years eve really the ticker so the law requires before november one this b be approved we haven't had the ability to do it since 2010 i i think so bringing it to you to have this conversation and then you know impose our will how we implement it so the law contemplates 40 day

cut off and it also requires sfpd occulttion i sent it to the lieutenant and asked if he has any comments we might ask him to come up and the outreach is important as well as but obviously if the population out there that applies for things doesn't know those are required we'll do our best using the e-mail list as well as the social media and any commissioner wants to assist us in getting the word out so we don't disappoint anybody if you have - i mean it's that simple to give staff direction and we begin implementing that.

>> so are you looking for us to determine cost and like the last deadline is. >> i don't think your - cost it is not in our purview there's a way in the memo to change or in some what you add costs to late permits sort of late i'm looking to the various folks inside the light wells to see if that's allowed it is difficult the rules around - this is supposed to be all permits cost recovery so the work we do is covered by the fee so we might have to provide more extensive description of the kind of work to expedite something that comes in late and justify my own that will cover

this is about you allowing us to create a special procedure what things you think are appropriate and then oozing us implementing and cob to you with some report as to whether you know we've had bumps from the road this has or not worked well in is part of purview of the entertainment commission. >> you guys are on the ground day to day i don't feel like i have enough information is it a cut of 2 weeks or 5 days we'll have to have the extra resources do they get committed i have a bunch of questions why don't i formulate those questions and see if other commissioners have

comments. >> commissioner lee. >> you're saying 40 days. >> that's what the section actually says specifically i don't come up with that the code section says 40 and the process in large part does the police department you know your big partner in a lot of those events have adequate time to figure out where resources have to be supplied especially on some of the bigger event days. >> i think our two commissioners that 0 do those kinds of event are more apt. >> what is motivating it did we see a rise in request this year or more of them unusual in the last 40 days i want more

information from the office to know if we feel - obviously you feel like there's a need to enact this authority i want the information that substantiates that. >> well without the exact numbers i feel that really this is the only time we're going to have serious positions - i think in 2014 i'll say as halloween this year and new years eve every year as halloween gets closer to a weekend it generates a tremendous amount of activity that looks like new year's eve i know we've recorded there was a lot of events i don't know if halloween was on a tuesday or wednesday if this is going to happen but new years eve it also

happens other than that this request i'm sort of coupling to you with does that impose this procedure on this dates it allows us to implement if we feel for whatever reason there is an e no matter amount of activity expected and without your approval to you know obvious this power we can't in the office so i am not i'm having to come back to you and say yes there were this many special events requests for this new years eve and that new years eve and this halloween and that halloween i'm going to ask you with the instance we'll trigger that and knowing around 11 years it is likely to be new years eve

and one other you know holiday it end up 0 getting into close to a 3 day weekend. >> it's about the trigger and if we're going to make a policy for the public to know if you don't do it within 7 days you'll get it out right or have to pay 50 percent more of the fees that would be more predictable and helpful rather than feeling it out year by year i get the broad authority so is florida this occasion arises i want predictability so if i don't complete it by this date my event is not happening or more costly so i'm opted to giving you that authority candle stick park you have anything.

>> so we form a task force or have decision by next week. >> this is required to come to you for this conversation but there isn't necessarily a timeline i don't believe there is the first one designated here is st. patrick's day unless the pd will tell me mime wrong this is stressful there are typically the same events we know about so no there's - if you'd like to form a task force and be formal that's the only way the pd can get together i mean, i'm on this is just a - >> your first pitch. >> commissioner lee and even a commissioner frost.

>> just to follow up the timeframe there has to be a cut off because they get a lot of last minute requests there's a a dewy sent festival you have to have more planning if the event is last minute the fees will be outrage if the public accepts that or do we set a standard you have to have your event in or subject to a lot more money maybe we can ask the lieutenant his opinion i know in the past they get inundated with last questions and suddenly there's a crazy number for expenses so we should streamline it a little

bit. >> it's good to know within the staff and commission what's the threshold not necessarily the number of events but how many people do those events represent so at what point does sfpd dermatitis capacity has been reached so i mean obviously sfpd staffing levels vary from year to year but what is frustrating maybe being told yes one year and next your costs are going to double because the staffing is not there you don't have that clear delineation for the staffing of the city services so providing guidance to say this is where we tap out this is the number of events and the number of people at those critical times we can afford to cover and beyond that

that could be cost recovery kicks in those additional cost permits kick in that will be an easier way to handle this at least it's more transparent. >> commissioner frost. >> that makes sense but when our talking about year by year this doesn't effect that because we're talking about anyone that is filing within 40 days of event and i know from first hand experience the police department requires our captains to have their plans made a month prior to new years eve depends on about the other ones it's not that big of a hardship on the ones that do it year after year they will know it i'm guessing the lieutenant is a plan explain this i don't think the department has a formula it

depends on where the event is being done and all the things that gone i think this is a good thing 40 days out it gives us our staff this guidance and teeth to be able to enforce what's going on i don't think 0 they're going to say no, because of the 40 days and as far as the cost recovery i've heard jocelyn the only way we can charge more for the people if it cost more for the permit there's no cost recovery the police department has to put more officers and muni has to run more whatever they can ask for that money that won't be -

but. >> but the folks are the most problematic are the folks that did know what they're doing and haven't planned or are planning within the 40 day period there's the most problem they'll be the ones at least likely to plan ahead i think you should need something ahead. >> any other thoughts i think we'll hear from the lieutenant from the police department again our authority is with the commissions ability to permit not the police department. >> campaign and others i'm dave from the san francisco police department i want to say this is beyond the scope of what we were working on today

what the purpose let me back up first of all, the police department is coming up a lot we have not spoken yet this is not driven by the police department it is coming from our commission and legislation section 1060 plus states you have this vehicle available if you want to act on that jocelyn was trying to be prudent i thought about identifying the day's not the process i totally get everyone saw 40 days we don't like that number i completely get that you think we've learned about the business every application stands on we can knock out in a week or a day i thought wisp hear to discuss the first displease of this the

eight or nine days we identified as the types of dates we could meet the criteria the next step will be the process that's where clearly we struck a nervous with everyone but just to reiterate jocelyn said we don't get the 40 days i don't recall where that came from it was thrown out there as a possible date i think we all know in the at the end e he said if this is an event this commission and city wants we're going to try i mean one thing about chief suhr i've never known him to hit a threshold it's something the city wants he'll do the best of his ability to get it done i don't want people to think this was a way

to stretch things out from my prospective from the police department you thought today was primarily about are those the dates and is that the dial and why not thanksgiving or commission or whatever kind of discussion but as far as the policies and procedures down the road that's another dialog. >> we're not trying to step on the toes of the police department i think for mow me i saw the dates but the meat we're talking about is the procedure so i think to call the question we could approve the dates and know kind of have our staff come back with a suggestion on procedures i don't think people want to comment or make a motion

beyond approving the dates. >> would that be sufficient to the staff? >> sure again. >> and we don't have to act think it tonight. >> as far as the staff is concerned we'll continue without a problem but i would like some conclude to this some point and if it's for us to outline like a more meaty procedure that you can for the purpose along and is i like this i don't will that fine. >> lieutenant. >> so you're saying 9 or 10 days if you had 20 applications going forward there should be no problems to you know review them and you know yay or nay or this

might be a problem a short period of time. >> i'm referring to primarily commissioner frost's comments been the reoccurring events those we're familiar with. >> the new ones diagonally i like to think those people are engage us like implicating the neighbors or so forth so it is so tricky because of the sis and scope of the event we saw how simple the whole foods thing went it was a some other thing but i think that example as a public event similarly could occur i think maybe this wasn't intended to be a tactic to not approve i don't want to be

cynical there's no doubt in my mind 0 people use this as a tactic to get what they president in the city from that prospective i think that's where the procedure long term could be helpful. >> i'm concerned sometimes nonprofits decide oh, we need to raise a little bit of money like 45 days before halloween and they is well, we better go get a permit they have plenty of time there's going to be a call for that. >> i can tell you commissioner lee that happens all the time we live in this world and anytime a nonprofit wants to do a defined or fund riser or raiser but the revenue stream is the alcohol so they're coming to us for the one

day liquor so we certainly don't want to encourage last minute applications we understand that things happen sometimes with the best of intentions and we have to streamline the process and make it light loaded and avoid a separate i guess that's it. >> that's the spirit we were trying to - >> i don't think anyone is saying you're trying to do that. >> even when i saw the 40 days that is going to land negatively on people and anytime someone sees that state raises concern. >> the questions are one the dates are they right and it also there's a line under the second sentence under the current

procedure we're unable to charge more for extra services i think those are actually, the questions for us to consider do we like the dates can we - our staff charge more for the rated services and can we disapprove a permit being late or lacking the service i think those are the questions we need to figure out as a commission i don't know if there's public comment but if the commissioners wanted to think about a motion to be continued or ask our staff to come back with more information or pick those 3 things apart and approve or disapprove commissioner frost. >> i have a question to the staff what the president said we're unable to charge more for

expedited services you said earlier the only way to charge for permits is cost recovery. >> that's mined i do know that the agencies do have ways to charge more as the date get closer i have to figure out how they have the ability i've asked in the past years about charging more late whatever maybe i called it the wrongs thing we know if this charges more like visibility and requirements for the rec and park permits for outdoor or 60 days in advance so we know there are precedence out there how can i get there so if we have a system like that

obviously that motivates we can approve that the approval on time you're going to go up with or not that's a question i will speak on behalf of allowing us to disapprove of the being late the question of how late is in our hands. >> all right. is that clear to everyone on the commission let's open it up for public comment i don't know if there is any all right. in public comment public comment is closed. >> it commissioner tan you don't have to make a motion it was a discussion. >> we don't. >> only on the agenda not an action agenda no action is required direction is helpful not in the form of a motion. >> thank you for clarifying that. >> commissioner frost.

>> couple of things like i said, i like this the 40 days out i trust your judgment on the anti fees i'll have a problem with adding a fee just because it's a cost recovery we have to send someone out on overtime but i see that that's where my thoughts are. >> i'm also in support of giving you that authority i think predict is upheaval i'm opposed to people it makes people turn things in quicker but as an incentive it helps it would be nice to know maybe if you can look at new year's but when the last application

not denied the week before that will help to determine kind of a minimum control. >> we've never denied an application bans like that it's late i did not think it was something we were allowed to do for lack of a better word i never wanted to do that typically if it's two lastly in our estimation to move the paper we've advise if you submit it there may not be enough time to turn it around so then you can submit or not submit it and so i think you can see where that goes. >> right. >> i think if we set a time you know instead of it's money like a one night permit and suddenly

there's no time to do it we've lost revenue you tell them up days to get it in or whatever date we decide like i said if there's a get for expediting it's only fair they had plenty of time to think about it. >> all right. 0 any other thoughts so we don't have to act on it now if you want us to act on it maybe in the next meeting if you came back with a more specific procedure around it. >> i think the communication so everyone knows there is going to be new recollections or deadlines so maybe this year is two soon to implement that maybe we workout and maybe next year start charging fees i'm not sure

4 or 57 or 67 months is enough maybe we can think about how this communication to get the message out to those organizations. >> and there may be more information to accommodate kind of research this is a good example of increasing kind of steps the closer you get maybe we'll ask their office how they've managed to do that maybe a percentage it goes up 10 percent every thirty days maybe a formula so spend the next two weeks to get information how to mirror that and way to get more money and dissensitive is vices. >>