think outside the box required to have sprinkler systems since 19986. the following items to be considered when sprirm a building water service from the motor to the building depending on pressure a booster pump might be required and main location coverage of sprishlg systems in companion areas and abatement if needed for lead and asbestos and >> sir i'm sorry our screens are blinking i don't have this package on the power point presentation so could you get a copy of it? i might have an old copy

>> tucson. >> concealed picking up and impact on tenants total cost result in different appraising prices i'd like to electro our chief housing circumstance rosemary. >> supervisors good afternoon so regarding the regulatory you framework i find yourself in regarding sprinklers and for suppression systems this is y while the newer buildings are required to have a manner of sprinkler systems throughout the, in fact, is the majority of buildings were banishment a long time ago i'll give you nor information if you look at apartment buildings of 7 units or greater 96 percent of those buildings were build 45 years

ago or longer than that so the problem is only non-allowed fire suppression the housing detail rieft reeftly it is required in apartment buildings the fir mash had a table before you we have i'll go ahead and put this this give us more information as you can see the sprinkler requirements for the majority of apartment buildings and that's 86 percent or greater is nominal in the storage areas or the garbage rooms and in the buildings that used to have linen rooms you'll not see many of those again, this is a code requirement put in before 1970 i saw those in the 1969 sfro san

francisco housing code it is 45 years since those items that the city is really looked at it need to do as far as reefg rooefg as as far the the housing stock i recommend we look at that in conjunction when they were amended in the 1980s there's discussion regarding the residential hotel sprinkler ordinance when this was adapted in 19 - 2002 the second ordinance that amended the housing code and the fire code it principally amended the housing code that's the

retroactive code with the systems within those knows the other things we have to consider is the types of things that start fires cigarettes and in opening tun areas of older electrical systems those types of systems keep anchorage we very are older detection systems and nominal amount of sprinklers that is housing stock from that standpoint it is time for the department of building inspection and the fire department to get together and look at those issues and see for example, on the central systems whether or not those can be improved those are - the systems that is housing code requires is unmonitored systems can the improvements to that and in the apartment buildings should the

new sprirnldz be rearview mirror o required those are the types of things by the looked when the residential hotel sprinkler ordinances was adapted there was conversations from director duffy when that ordinance was place in the housing code there was a prohibition that they could not be located with complying with the section and again that also amended the fire code at the same time. >> is that it is that the presentation. >> thank you very much any other staff presentation presentations at this time? the public utilities commission >> i have questions for dbi

please do stick around. >> thank you, david briggs with the puc good afternoon, supervisors i'm happy to give you details on establishing the fire service for a property in san francisco thank you for bringing the slides up so i'm referring to the cost involved that connecting the water main to the property or to the meter roache on the sidewalk outside of the public right-of-way and shown here on the slide is the short story this is the schedule in our rates with the puc has adapted with the present fiscal year and just to point out several nuance to those schedule that are relevant first several maintenance operations

for operating a fire sprinkler system within a property those are inspects and various checks that amounts to essentially one thousand dollars a year what have you and the puc charges for the service just to point out and the second is this rate schedule most of the buildings in san francisco that we're talking about are going to fall into the 4 inch diagram or the 6 diagram connection once the property is above an elevation in exposed of 75 feet that kicks into an 8 inch service and other complications arise and the last announces to pout of we're in nominally to the sites their specifics conditions that present complexities that put us

into a custom rate schedule the puc costs are assigned to the applicant on a time and materials basis essential our true costs for labor and materials there were 3 listed first, the street if it's a busy street we have to tunnel underneath and attractiveness above our head in the applicant has a myriad of services and packages and fires services and irrigation, etc. it's a levitation or beautifies or motives and buses if we have a complicated traffic plan to perform all of those kick us off the standard rate schedule the first 3 on the slide i want to

give you collar to the costs usually in the 10 to $20,000 for the first 3 the loose one is rare but that last one, if the flow requirements for the sprinkler system inside the buildings regardless of the diagram it won't produce the pressure we have to up size that that involves several feet of replacement it is rare and happening less and less 2 percent of time we see it earlier in the planning phase there's usually a few spice up but it would add one hundred to $150,000 is to the job i'm mentioning that that is rare i see maybe one or two of those

are year. >> thank you for adding to the presentation i appreciate all our work on that one of the big things and hear obviously as we reason not to require sprirnldz is the cost ever burden to the property owner this is something that comes up a lot i really want to balance that cost also with our goal which is to stabilize and reduce the cost of damages and so i guess just a couple of questions what do you do in the case are there cases where property owners might not be able to afford the whole amount how does puc work with them i'm not sure you work with the property owners and i'm curious how many property owners do you find that are in so doing this volunteeringly are

voluntarily putting in the sprinkler system and coming to the puc to make this request. >> i can answer our first question i'll answer the easy one first when an applicant comes to us for fire services we usually don't they arrive before voluntarily or forced perhaps some other folks can answer that, yes this is a large cost born by the property owner we have especially in the public sector as opposed to private investment for private investment there are financing we explore with folks those exist but in terms of discounting we don't offer that otherwise, it is a water system

plan. >> i know when a wait system has been out of commission there's a fee for the puc to come in i don't know if it's to turn on the water i see that building had water prior but bathroom and kitchen use can you explain what the cost it for that so if a current building already has access to water either for the plumbing and bathroom and coach usage why is the cost so high to connect i have seen the same system for a water system. >> most of the time under is a water use structure ongoing through will be examples where things are starting from the ground up we're looking at an upgraded service that follows construction in the street they may have an undersized connection for the drinking and

other purposes that line comes into the building usually that's undersized and unusually no fire service so we have to start over again new connects to the water that i'm to the street there are relating the we can reuse if that answers our question. >> yes. for a layperson oh, just connect the pipes and connect the water system i don't know why you had to do the street work. >> if you've seen an installation is a mirroredly sized project that involves a lot of personnel and traffic control and moderate restoration it is not easy in san francisco with the improvements on the situation and streets so all of those costs into into the foe schedule. >> so the one time we know that the puc had to handle the influx

of requests in 2002 with the sprinkler for the hotel how did you feel that puc did all the work you just described. >> i don't know. i was not here that's a short answer i'm aware it was a particularly large work we couldn't handle compared to what happens with the development in san francisco that change in ordinance if it were feathered with the contribution it not a burden with the development in san francisco it is just trembling active we've geared up in essence. >> thank you such through the chair i can ask some questions back to from dbi.

>> so one of the major issues is the cost of installing a system we know that life i life-saving it saves lives combat the worst effects of the fire he wing it is incredibly cost immense active can we mitigate or minimize the cost for a property owner. >> i think in this instance i believe the deputy director may be able to talk about the cost and different alternatives. >> good afternoon, supervisors i'll refer this to the chief from the planning department

he'll be more familiar with that. >> good afternoon, commissioners chief plumbing inspector when it comes down to cost you have your mainline and the supply and the branches coming in and all depending on the type of style your installing going to unit or down to take care of the costs the fully sprinkler buildings is more convoluted because of the examples it's not a straight easy shot reducing the prides i don't know how unless i don't know how you do that there's a price no matter based on the occupancy and types of buildings. >> i guess one in the common

areas in the sro hotels versus every room we provided different incentives but financing options with example with the relieving in the event of on earthquake we know is going to happen but foyers are going to happen what's the option the city can provide to insure more of the private property owners are having this protection. >> unfortunately i don't have that i'm sure people will be willing to work with it a timeframe of giving it in san francisco i don't know who knows. >> i know director duffy knows. >> supervisor kim first of all, on slide number 2 if you remember we mentioned about you know using the central

and alarm system that helps people warning and get out and also to sprinkler the common area less costs due to the fully sprinkler of the building and then to study that and also you know if you can you know not bring in a separate line if you have you know 6 pet or less to tap into the domestic lion they can reduce the costs but, of course depending on the size of the building what you do and - >> so it that true to the puc if you put in less than 6 sprinkler heads you'll use the domestic line that's not what i heard earlier. >> when the applicant comes to us if the building plans are

specified in the building inspection we get the requirements from the building inspection they need a certain fire services based on the fixture count. >> it's possible not to go through the classic puc as recommend i want to clarify the puc there is also a cost. >> it depends on the type of this if you have 6 buildings the amount of the required water and service supplied to the building can accumulate the use of buildings and the sprinklers it's not a problem but we're talking a lot of unit more than likely this service is not big enough to supply both. >> i think this question is for any member of dbi or the fire department if not a sprinkler you know what are other tools that are just as effective for providing additional time for

egress for those in you know a fire what am my understanding of requiring sprinkler in the common area for hotel it is not only the building per se but you give residents or workers more time to exit the building because the sprinkler in the common area can give the right of egging ingress for the. >> good afternoon supervisor kim and supervisor cohen and supervisor wiener yes. well exit signs and fire alarms work in ♪ some months were extraordinarily in the haufldz and some into the unit themselves we when we got before that legislation went

through the fires spread thought the hallways that's why the firestops now we get the fires in the sro's it is a mattress fire or contained in the unit but everything keeping the exits clear and the penthouse donors and everything >> you'll those things are just as effective to give residents and worker. >> i'd like is they're all nerve in injunction with them in a common area or a berm or a living space it's effective in confining the affair to that area as far as but in those buildings you can have a for if the actinic or the lightwell those are not 13rir78d i want to address one thing regarding the earthquake if there's a major earthquake there's fires in

addition in case that is more likely what will happen the domestic supply was effected so sprinkled will not be affected if we have allen a major earthquake but the colleague can say anything. >> having a non-domestic connection is more effective in the incident of an earthquake. >> are you talking about the water supply i don't know if that be the case but everything is going to shiek. >> one of the suggestions to reduce the costs maybe to limit the amount to 6 are less but you know this is still for you i'm not sorry you're not telling me that is going to happen if you're only attached to the

domestic possum so it is attached to the installation that the puc provides. >> no. >> i'll let him answer that. >> are you saying it at all. >> historic the domestic supply a commodity. >> so you think the sprirnldz won't help us in the event of an earthquake. >> we have another means that's why it is important if the domestic supply is accommodated i i know the sprinkler will not work. >> just to clarify the option that i think the department of building inspection they raised about taping into the domestic system or getting a new for service out of the street they depend on a water stimuli by and

large to a larger seismic the p w s f both the options the sprinklers at the end of the day the sprirnldz are going to rely on the domestic water supply. >> so i guess i'm asking we know that one of the most damaging consequences of an earthquake were about historically the for that preceded or yeah. proceeded the earthquake i'm not hearing that maybe requiring sprirnldz is not going to have an impact they're not going to be able to assess the fire system. >> i just want to clarify that's what i'm hearing. >> it will help. >> what will help. >> sprinklers inside. >> it won't help us. >> but sprinklers inside a residential structure will help following an earthquake will it

be fully fundamental after an 8 point owe earthquake in san francisco no. >> just one other question and again, this is specifically to dbi and that's one argument i've heard is that sprirnldz are unnecessary if the city were explorer endorsing the existing code and recollection our sprirnldz are a life-saving to tell. >> supervisor kim we've dedicated the housing code you can only do code enforcement in the code we said the majority of buildings have little fire suppression that is not going to help us get the tiff protection in the older buildings that the newer believes are objecting the other issue the sprinkler

ordinances fully sprinkled those in the commercial areas that was 3 hundred and 54 buildings when we looked the orderly apartment buildings of 7 or more unit your looking at 20 thousand buildings so from that stand out with the regulatory framework we'll have to consider how to approach this in a manageable way for the plan checking of a partial system it is will be a burden on the fire department it is something to consider i want to make sure you're aware of those numbers. >> yes. and what i understand this argument to be if the city is endorsing the code i understand the fire supersonic is not part of code if the city enforced against clustering blocking for exits and fire

alarms sprirnldz may not be necessary so the question of in a building it is one hundred code compliance our sprirndz a life-saving tool. >> absolutely the code enforcement we have right now is principally doing one of 2 things help people 2k3w09 get out of the building so the problem it didn't do anything with respect to sprupz the fierce we learned with the residential sprinkler ordinances some of the fires were created throw things that code enforcement isn't going to address as much as a cigarette being thrown in an effort of a location having a fire within a stud wall because the wiring in those buildings is aging those types of things will not be seen in code enforcement we'll address the issue of existing

and with the limits of those older systems with the orderly detection little to do with suppression. >> thank you very much i think we're going to now transition into public comment at this time opening it up for public comment anyone want to speak on item of you have a two minute the soft bell will ring when your thirty second time raining. >> welcome. >> hi good afternoon. i work for the mission sro collaborative born and raised and live in the tenderloin a few of us left i want to speak in support of having a hearing thank you to supervisor kim for putting this on the agenda the

young child was in two foyers one in 89 and one in the 5 both minds no sprinkler system attached inside the building i guarantee right now would have helped and along with supervisor kim's facts sprinklers save likens perp and professionally as someone that is in and out of sro hotels everyday and who can talk about the historical they've been ♪ many, many fires sprinklers have helped why you have to push to have a heartening as quickly as possible and for the hearing exclude a fire shop within the residential hotels it is one thing to have a sprinkler system that prevents those from happening first place we do the

sro hotels and partnerships are the fire department and the tenants themselves can attest to how phonetic those are to the people coming from the fire department so those are informational and necessary to include in hearing when it up >> thank you very much. >> thank you. next speaker, please. >> hi good afternoon i'm also with the mission of the collaborative and resident of strict 10 here in san francisco so we have seen not only through my work but personally i've seen friends and coworkers last year a coworker of ours was adopted three children and a single mom we see the fire was not caused by itself code violation it can happen it