don't see a lot of folks come forward and saying i'm taking the unit off the market and leasing i think that testimony was compelling the first time we're punishing the obligate acres because of the bad arcs between hosted and non-hosted and we're trying to come up with that number without that framework. >> first of all, we don't get that information from the hosting platforms whether or not something was hosted or non-hosted but oftentimes more than one posting we don't get

feedback from hosting platforms and second we have a provision that allows someone to have an unlimited nights of hosted up to 5 romance in rh districts what the ordinance does it created a loophole not needing a registration for the bed-and-breakfast we want to close that will that. >> i think the one to one on the miser owners is two low for hosted rentals and giving the testimony kind of you know looking at the testimony but maybe two it is too high for non-hosted those are the people trying to get at the bad acres

that are taking the rentals off the markets and leasing. >> we could keep the cap for number one hosted maybe scott want to talk about that. >> anytime we make that distinction as mr. star pointed out we don't get that information if you're going to ask us our information needs to go up in terms of being able to enforce that perhaps it is a great decision about the appropriate number of nights but the question is between hosted and unhosted we need to have that be no distinction only a separate discussion about the recommendation of number of nights perhaps it is a higher number and there could be a separate discussion.

>> from a policy prospective different nights we're relying on love of this you know a lot of the planning code is difficult to enforce is not enforceable i mean we have provisions that the bona fide establishment based on sales of liquor granted you can audit and get f that information and the same thing for hosts get some of the information that's how taxes work you foil taxes and audit selected you know, i i don't want to make bad policy it is hard to enforce but a lot of the planning code is hard to enforce i think if we want a number you want to put a number to deter the hosted versus non-hosted we have a few people that are doing

non-hosted and commissioner richards i agree with the recommendation do away with the distinction of short-term rentals whether hosted or non-hosted one the xherpts said how do you know if so it hosted a or non-hosted put a chip if you know how to do that i'm going to invest in your company but i was going to propose that all being said i agree w at testimony from the people with single-family homes with one bedroom or two it helps to create costs we should add this to the list when you apply for short-term rentals with you, check the box i want to a be a

bed-and-breakfast one stop shopping gets it i'll support someplace but on the shrz i think this is impossible bed-and-breakfast you have to list it. >> commission on recommendation number one well commissioner hillis is city of chicago around and left a (laughter). >> i'm supportive of the limited distinction the crux of not being able to enforce is on this matter whichever there's an a lenscy towards the hosted being more number of days by default this is the number of days is right everyone is going to say their host we can't tell if someone is there for people that want to rent out longer

bed-and-breakfast is an option there is a option to enter into a lease with someone for three or four months you can represent be all those other things to commissioner hilliss point that there are principle planning code that are difficult to enforce. >> i'll add my $0.02 i'm some or in support of this and to define if it is hosted or unhosted i like your idea of two separate numbers but i don't know commissioner antonini. >> yeah. i still stand by what i said a good analogy you fill out our form and report your income and send our w 23 and

they make selective audit you tell them why they audit you i like the fact that is this full-time resident imthat is a way to allow the people to continue to make the necessary income they need to keep their units and if i can't get that passed i hope those who are registered will get a benefit and the bed-and-breakfast is not a bad idea by hope to go through a cu and an certain amount of expense i guess they can use their airbnb just have to priority i provide the breakfast. >> laughter. >> if i may there seems we can't get information from the

tax collectors office how many how much they pie that's a clear line. >> i'm not talking about taxes i'm urging the anything else of the irs as a safe kind of system you thought you had people sign an affidavit their full-time residents the majority of the time. >> we do we just can't verify that with tax information. >> not with tax information but fidget other way to find out if someone is not residing in house and steep penalty maybe a criminal penalty if they state on the don't find their residents all year round i guess

my next guess is the around option to a cu process that adds significant expense but once they're there they'll be allowed to sub let as much as they want to. >> so those are the two things either way i'll support it but i've heard testimony from many people that rely on this whole thing it works well and you know, i think you're going to have a lot better those are not the people you're trying to - you want to make sure their telling the truth. >> there must be a way to verify they're there and supervisor kim brought up the instance of someone that was not a resident of san francisco was trying to get their kids in san

francisco public schools usually, it's the other way around but i think there might be a way to do it. >> commissioner johnson. >> i'm supportive or recommendation 8. >> commissioner moore. >> i'm supportive of the distinction between hosted and non-hosted because i believe there is a right full place for how this type of rental but i have to building the support of making it requires the department. >> commissioner richards. >> i think commissioner antonini's the irs requires rigorous reporting if you're not reporting you're out of

compliance and can be criminally charged we don't have that what this reporting it is still hard to be able to figure out brown where someone is at. >> commissioner moore. >> this is a private transaction and not fully monitoring business traction we don't know how the money is being chaemd is it a cash basis or so credit card. >> commissioner antonini. >> maybe the mrafrpdz agree on the forms they send in along with the payment and stuff which attach rental this is hosted or not hosted i carton speak for them.

>> should we call a role on recommendation number one. >> yeah. >> commissioners recommendation number one. >> so if we're kind of voting on the recommendation are the finding votes normally when we voted. >> retake a - vote. >> that could put if i don't agree with 15 i'll have to vote no on the whole 15. >> we moved it forward. >> you could also so on each of item vote on it separately

that's the end of it combined into a motion. >> so each recommendation will - >> you could vote on each one separately and that being the will of the commission vote on all altogether. >> that's the staff we'll handle topic to topic and the topic you can weigh in any additional tophic you feel should be considered and no further vote will be needed. >> you're making a recommendation to the board. >> okay commissioner hillis. >> i want to make a comment you may not like this distinction but i think there maybe things later on how you it shouldn't be

abstained we'll do a final vote. >> sure. >> i think we should take an overall vote. >> i suggest we try to get to a package let's take those votes and put together a package if we can't we'll reduce that to a single vote. >> if you feel liquor you need to change our vote, vote separately and at the end we'll say we want to add or subtract. >> so it sounds like we're going to have an unofficial vote and recap and try to get one single motion and if need be

back to each line item. >> let's streetcar this complicated process recommendation number one and maybe initially we need to show a show of hands which commissioners are in favor of recommendation number one. >> you can't be choice didn't. >> (laughter) commissioner moore has a quick question. >> if at all possible a commentary shading for the board of supervisors seeing the premeditate and deliberate of vote there is a spectrum of opinions and the public should have the benefit of seeing we represent that boarder kind of in favor. >> i'd like to roll call. >> on recommendation number one. >> commissioner antonini. >> no commissioner hillis san francisco commissioner johnson by commissioner moore commissioner richards commissioner wu and commissioner

fong so that recommendation theoretically will get added to the represents to the board of supervisors by a vote of 5 to 2 with commissioner antonini and commissioner hillis voting against recommendation two is to rehabilitate unit that have been subject to an ellis act from registering on the short-term rental registry the department buildings this will add another disincentive it allows someone to do a short-term rental after the period of 5 years it didn't cut them out of the market. >> commissioner johnson i'm supportive of this supervisor kim and supervisor breed decided to eliminate this amendment.

>> mined was that supervisor breed want to take out her private right of action provision for units that have been subject to the ellis act violation. >> if i can jump in if those are were added by the board of supervisors to the full board you can't take it out she can't take it out herself it has to be forming because it goes back to the full board the full board has to vote they put it in i would say it supervisor breed not move forward. >> commissioner hillis. >> i'm supportive by the way a question your currently prohibited from leasing our ellis act apartment for 10 years

would that not apply to you know leasing or is it an airbnb unit i don't want to lower it you can't lease our property for 10 years. >> deputy city attorney under the current law assuming they meanwhile meet qualification can rent their unit as a short-term rental, however you buy a building and ellis acted and it was sold and condos and let's say everyone in the building is a pardon me resident they own their unit and live there they otherwise quality to be on short-term rental program they'll be able to do a should recall in the administrative code and the planning code if you qualify with the short-term rental your

use is residential not consider a lease hold. >> just a quick conversation clarification you'll not been able to move out for 10 years you couldn't are we talking about a bedroom. >> that's maintained in you go on vacation and comply do a short-term rental assuming you moot the qualifications for the short-term rental outline have to be recommended with the department and - >> forgot short-term rental can you rent out it for a short-term rental. >> that's a distinction you can't rent it out but do a short-term rental i'm supportive and commissioner antonini and i heard an opinion that the courts frown on anything that treats

ellis act under different situation we're allowed to have a regulation you can't maybe a state law you can't involve in rental activities for 10 years is it statewide city attorney not a local. >> adopting i'm not familiar with that provision i believe that is state law but. >> well, there is a some time period 5 maybe it is in there this is consisted with that i don't like the incidence the son is held for the sins of the father if someone else was evicted and sfwournd a condo and want to do a you know short-term rental on our condo you're not allowed for a full year this is an avenue where it can cause a

lot of problems we're kind of probably not that much of a disincentive i'll support this. >> commissioner wu. >> i'm happy i want to get an idea how thousands enforced does the rent board send in information how the ellis act have happened and moll the affirmative i photographic we get regular report on those units as well as we have a referral process so when we get questions we can contact them to get answers saw is there going back in time a ellis act revocation. >> they maintain those records. >> okay. thank you. >> commissioner richards. >> i think that whatever we come up with should be

harmonious if it's 10 years let's go to commissioner hillis recommendation and commissioner moore. >> i'd like to have the city attorney use the example of a ellis act to turn them into condominium most condominiums have rules against it i'd like to look at an ellis act building someone want to come in and fix up the building and have adhere rents how does it play on short-term rentals. >> deputy city attorney i'm not sure whether the question was directed. >> yes. to say a condominium building an owner would be allowed to do that is no a question month condominiums have cc&rs that prohibit short-term

rentals. >> whether your cc&r or lease short-term rentals the city does not regulate so we would not be involved with regulating whether someone that permitted under their internal revenue lease over and over homeland security association we look at whether they comply with our short-term rental. >> i'm interested in how ellis act evictions applies to this when we are turning them into how end rentals will 5 years not being able to do it apply there? >> well under current law the only situation where you could do a short-term rental if you're the permanent resident are you

saying the whole this was turned into short-term rentals. >> no high-end rentals. >> there's a time limit you can't rerent the unit. >> it will be the same you can do a short-term rental. >> once the ellis act is invoked you can't rerent if for 5 years and this is consistent but the concerns about whatever the number is making it consistent with the broader requirements are available for the ellis act. >> that's the answer to any question thank you. >> commissioner richards. >> one quick point the ellis act it is recorded on the deed it definitely is disclosed to the boroughs it has been ellis acted. >> there's a reporting

requirement but i don't know if it said restrictions or. >> i support number 2. >> okay commissioners shall i call the questions on recommendation number 2 i think we live in the resolution itself if that's okay. we'll identify which commissioners voted for and give this this particular item and at the end then for the entire resolution it will be who the commissioners agree on the count recommended by the individual line item. >> on item 2 for the prohibition the ellis act visitation commissioner antonini. >> no commissioner hillis commissioner johnson commissioner moore

commissioner richards commissioner wu commissioner president fong so moved, commissioners, that motion passes that item will be recommended 6 to one with commissioner antonini voting against. >> commissioner johnson. >> thank you for your recommendations. >> scott recommendation number 3 to allow the city to have civil procedures against the platform as defined at any time in the kim and supervisor campos ordinance. >> commissioner johnson tucson i forgot to press the bottom this is one where commissioner hillis my vote depended on the explanation of a later recommendation to mr. star explain the current enforcement

the erupted enforcement practice given that a later recommendation voiced a clank to the administration hearing and how those are invoked and used at what point is the city snuft. >> to clarify the latter recommendation right now it requires a hamburger and the change is to make that hearing something they can request but otherwise that is a minor technical change not changing the process but maybe the adopting is a could a address this allows the city as the city attorney did last year for violation properties were illegal xherpd used in the ellis act and then it was reinsuring the city has the right to initiate enforcement at this

time. >> adopting i think that in all those amendments with this lunge added the intent from the recommendation from our office to clarify the city can also foil lawsuits we don't have to wait for the administrative process to be completed that's the case this is clarifying language to make that crystal clear we don't need to go through the longer - >> process. >> quick question under the circumstances without the administrative proceeding are going through that process i'm confused. >> i'll let the zoning administrator most likely get a recommendation from the department we don't have to wait but often i assume in a

situation where it is a bad actor and go after the bad actors open space and not wait for the administrative process if we have a lot of evidence chapter four 1 be violated and multiple properties in violation but 5 property that are the same bad actors the city attorney can enforce those on all cases. >> commissioner antonini and staff supports this i assume and feral didn't have it in his legislation. >> it's not no kim hers was a

duplicative. >> the lapsing is slightly different drafted in october and i did a slightly better job of crafting it the intent that the city can institute enforcement and civil procedures at any time. >> commissioners shall and call the question on that recommendation. >> commissioner antonini commissioner hillis commissioner johnson commissioner moore commissioner richards commissioner wu and commissioner president fong so moved, commissioners, that motion passes that recommendations will go forward unanimously unanimously. >> so recommendation go number 4 is to allow private right of action for nonprofits as outlined in the kim ordinance that will allow a nonprofit it is chart