drought. the last paragraph casts dpw as the protector of mature trees against potentially many property owners who might saok to replace trees fw this case were allowed to proceed, this is an appeal to the slippery slope that this line must not be crossed however there are special individual circumstances they that would not apply to most other case, responsible husbandry requires thinning and removing individual trees. there's a separate document called the tree evaluation sheet and here the inspector noted that species may not be suitable under overhead power. we have paid a certified arborist to trim these trees we have trimmed as much as we could without risking the tree, a smaller tree would surely pose less risker the area subject to high winds that would bend tree limbs the inspector did not recommend

denying the recommendation and remove the tree, it wrote it has opinion to review, there were facts not addressed by dpw, one housing, this is a matter that affects available rental house we rent a 100 legal rental apartment, we have four tenants, two have moved because of repeated sewage backup, health, this tree has resulted in sewage back ups raw sewage up to two toilets, they have often taken several days to respond. water cannot be used during these type *f times. three esthetics, we want to replace the entire sidewalk and driveway apron and renovate the landscaping a maimer tree would allow the architectural tree to be seen, we want to know people live here, we want to monitor activities in front

of our house and as well as across the street by being able to look out a window, four, home owner preference, there is no objection to replacing this tree, we have talked to our adjacent member and is a smaller tree would be preferable, this area of the sidewalk stays moist under this large tree and allowing a few hours of sunlight which would occur with a smaller tree would make the area more pleasing and cut down on the heavy growth of moss on the property and brick work, we want to reiterate we want to improve the frontage of 3420 fulton and put the same species in or use the species that urban forestry has planted on the adjacent block and directly across the street lining kennedy on the park. thank you. >> you have to use the other microphone.

>> we'll maer from the department. >> good evening, chris [inaudible] urban forester with the department of public works regarding the subject tree adjacent to 3420 fulton street, the staff level decision by inspector woo jew chung was to deny the request to remove the tree and that decision was appealed by the applicant, the property owner to a departmental hearing. after the departmental hearing the recommendation from the director was to deny the request to remove the subject tree. i will go through a few photos just to review the tree itself, if we could have overhead. so the subject tree is young

to mature, [inaudible] i guess not young it's mature, somewhere between 20 to 30 years in age, and is a broadly fiber green specie, it's planted across the city and the tree itself the condition of the tree is not really in question it has good vigor there's no real structural defects, it has a slight lean to the east but that lean is parallel with the road so it's not impinging passage of travel from pedestrians or on the road. regarding the overall side of the tree, obviously it's very difficult to -- tree size is very subjective in terms of what someone thinks is a large tree versus a smaller tree. the tree to the left is not being proposed for removal, that's an adjacent property owner who's made recent sidewalk repairs so we have similar species on the block where sidewalk repairs have

been made and the trees will remain on site. there's another view of the tree, a lot of our sidewalks in san francisco can be very narrow, as narrow as 6-9 feet in width. here we have roughly 14 feet to the base of the stairs and then the stairs provide another 6 or 8 feet to the actual side of the building so regarding the site itself, and i should say at the onset i do sympathize and efrp ?iez with the property own's plate the detailed description of the amount of sewage backups they have, i understand it's really hard to continent in the face of a single tree adjacent to their property. that said, we do have to speak for the trees and the fact that larger trees do provide benefits smaller trees provide smaller benefits we do have to play gate keeper r, this this

tree would be maintained by public works, we would not seek removal so i wanted to point out the context and we do acknowledge that there is a good amount of -- a lot of sidewalk damage, most of the frontage of the sidewalk has to be repaired completely. what we recommend is a basin expansion and it would be a pretty good side basin expansion. we marked white marks on the sidewalk the smallest we probably would recommend would be a 6 by 9 tree basin currently it's a 3 by 3, so we do recommend a pretty large base inexpansion to accommodate the roots of the tree near the base of the trunk. in summary, we do have to protect large mature trees if the sewer repairs have been made, that issue has been addressed. if the sidewalk repairs are made, that issue has been addressed. we do hope some bit to maintain the trees in san francisco

because we want to protect and enhance the canopy size in the city. unfortunately for property owners, when faced with a lot of financial costs obviously it's understandable that they're going to seek removal but what i'm concerned about in this photo you can see the tree behind the subject tree that has recently repaired sidewalk no one sought the removal of that tree, so again to be consistent, fw the tree's relatively healthy, sidewalk repairs could be made without destabilizing the tree, our recommendation is to keep that tree. so that summarizes our process in review of this application. we are concerned that if people want to just remove their tree because of financial costs that that does open that up so it is understandably an issue but if the sewer repair has been made, that issue's been

addressed, so that's what we have to present, in summary, i would ask that you uphold the denial of the request to remove the tree. thank you. >> i have a couple of questions. the tree that you are comparing, you said no one asked to be removed, have those folks had sewer problems? >> i don't know. it's very possible they have had 0 sewer issues. >> it's not really a comparison, right? >> two thirds of property owners are responsible for maintaining their trees so two thirds of property owners are in the same boat, they all have that same liability overhanging them. >> but it's not just the cost of the repair, right raw sewage has its own difficulties, it's dangerous to people, right? >> absolutely. >> i think they said in their

papers that their expert said that even if the sewage was fixed that it would eventually happen again. do you have any comment about that? >> not someone from our department that said that. i mean, there's no guarantee, i mean, i think that's what we have to look at is all trees have potential to get into sewer lines. if a sewer line is 50 80 years old, it's going to have a crack or a leak and it's time for that sewer to be upgraded. the challenge understandably is how if the property owner repairs their section of sewer line, when is the city going the repair the section that's in the road? >> but in this situation, it isn't just a one-time sewage problem. see, i understand your argument about the precedent, but in this situation, since they've had the difficulty more than once and it's recurring isn't that sort of a non-precedential

or special circumstance to say that the tree should go especially when they're willing to put in a smaller tree? >> sure. the multiple backups na the property owner experienced on the sewer line that they're responsible for, when they address that issue by replacing a line, my understanding of their brief is that that addressed that issue then there continue to be backup ins the line, the section that is the sties and that's been repaired there are continual backups, the sewer had a crack or a break in it absolutely when there is a leak, the tree roots will take advantage of that but it begins with a faulty sewer line, so i understand it's a single tree, you know, we're not here every month with 30 trees before us but i finally have a tree where we believe to us -- and i don't

want to say to spite, but even in the face of all those issues to the sewer line, if that's been addressed we have a viable tree, and i understand the commission's perspective and public works is also cognizant of the fact that if you make removal so onerous and available, you lose advocates out there for the urban forests, so we do understand your position as kind of a weights and measures you know, so we respect the commission's feedback. >> could you talk a little bit more about the idea of expanding the basin what that would entail and again what the potential results would be please? >> sure, basin expansion, as the applicant stated, we didn't mean to mislead with the statement that it would address areas of sidewalk damage in that immediate area, what we're saying is very often and this

is good to psa, there's a 3 by 3 foot basin and people keep pouring back the sidewalk to the same limited space and the same exact area gets damaged again so by expanding the basin there's two things we're doing, one is we're preventing the unnecessary cutting of roots close to the base of the trunk of the tree, the other thing we're doing is not have the property owner pay money and concrete in the same area where we know it's going to get damaged again. it's true what the applicant stated, an extent of the sidewalk has been damaged by the tree, that is acknowledged but those other areas we believe can be repaired without destabilizing the tree, those are the two aspects of basin expansion, one is preventing someone from throwing money into the same exact area which is going to keep getting damaged. there are some sidewalk that is are narrow in the city where we don't really have a lot of

basin expansion options, in this case, we do. >> wouldn't the same be true for the sewer issue? why do you want to -- if you know you've been advised that this problem can occur again why are you going the continue the problem and cause sewage backup, not to mention the cost what's making me scratch my head and also the appellant is stating very clearly that they are affirmed with the spirit of keeping the forest and keeping the canopy in the city of san francisco appropriate by replanting a healthy tree, putting the money into doing that, putting the money into making it a proper basin putting the money into fixing the sidewalk, and then i

hear even going across the street and planting another tree, so clearly they're in the spirit of sustaining the intent of the urban forest and the intent of the city, but what they're not into is doing what you just said is probably problematic is if we know we're perpetuating a problem, this would be pretty dumb to continue the action, so that's what's making me scratch my head. >> sure, not much to add on that point. i would just say that unfortunately when you look at the urban forest and the urban infrastructure every tree and every sewer line has the same issue lurking. that's a challenge for everyone so if you address that issue you've got a working sewer line again. the idea is that there's not going to be an issue again with a sewer line again.

no one -- our staff or at urban forestry we're not sewer system experts we can't vouch and say for a fact how long the property owner is going to have a free and clear sewer line, free of tree roots but it is our job to uphold the ordinance and try to advocate as much as we can for retaining larger trees. this is not a one for one replacement. i think it may seem boilerplate but we have to talk about the benefits of trees in an urban environment because there are economics, soesh yol logical and environmental benefits but i understand that in this particular case, the property owners understandably is frustrated with the amount of money and time and also like you said, public health issues. >> mr. buck, looking at the [inaudible] of the property wouldn't the old sewer lines be made out of a terracotta or

clay material more than likely? >> exactly. >> it's clay. >> whereas the new one should be cast iron? >> cast iron or terracotta where you put in a sleeve. >> i have a question just to clarify something i thought you said which was -- and maybe we're talking a chicken and egg situation here, that once those sewer pipes were repaired that there shouldn't be another issue because it was some problem with the sewer pipe na allowed the tree root tos get in? >> we oftener use the example of someone having a hole in the roof and you take a branch and put it in the hole and say look at what this tree did. it starts with some defact with the sewer line and it could be a crack, we have earthquakes settling things like that, trucks rumbling and then just the age and terracotta pipe,

it's going to have little cracks in it. what i do worry about is let's say you repair a certain section of sewer line, where they join, again tha,'s not my expertise, i can visualize where thae join maybe 20, 40 feet over, where they're attached isn't drummed tight and 5 or 10 years late e you start getting dripping or some kind of leakage, it is hard to guarantee to anyone that tree roots are not going to get into the sewer incensing it begins with an issue with the sewer line first usually. >> just one more question if the tree removal is granted, then the procedure would be that they would have to apply to have it -- and noted fi casing be given on the tree, correct? >> so just to clarify the removal process, we have gone through their tree removal notification process and as the appellant stated, we can

verify, there's been no public protest, there's been no ver cal or written protest against the removal and what we would do the decision of this commission would be final and we would be able to grant a permit for removal with replacement so there's no more notification required at this point in time, and if approved for removal, we would just recommend that a 24 inch box side tree be replanted. there's interest on the applicant to install some landscaping and my recommendation would be to install landscaping in the sidewalk towards the curb side, they have a setback that may be on private property where there's opportunities for landscaping but it looks like there's opportunities to install a larger landscaping plot towards the curb, so perhaps a 24 inch box replacement with sidewalk landscaping plot would be a way to add back a little more

greenery. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> is there any public comment on this item? seeing none, then we will take rebuttal pr -- from the appellants, you have three minutes. >> so i want to thank chris buck, i think that their department has acted very professionally, he allowed us to change the date which i very much appreciate, we look forward to working with them in the future. this -- at the first hearing, i do want to point out that the only criterion that they ever used was nothing that we brought up but only whether the tree could be saved only whether it was viable and there's a whole host of other issues to be weighed in this case. it's a one off one of a kind

case, it's resulted in the loss of two tenants and we do everything to be compliant. our inlaw apartment is 100% legal we've lost two tenants because of that and then of course a lot of frustration. when the toilets overflow, it's like this violent, usually we get some kind of hint ahead of time from the shower floor, but then when the toilets overflow maibt's because an upstairs toilet was flush and had there's a lot of exhaust into the hou raw sewage has come up, it's come up into the apartment, all through the apartment into the carpet hall, we've had to replace cart, we replaced the side sewer on our side, supervisor mar got the dpw out to dig up to their heads to go out and fix one of the holes on the side. since that time, fulton has been resurfaced. we've spent tens of thousands

of dollars to mitigate the noise and all of a sudden when they resurfaced fulton, it got so much quieter because we weren't hearing every truck going we're very concerned that if there is another need to go under the street, it's just going the be replaced with a patch and the patch will create noise again. anything else? >> just that it's our understanding that the sewer has just been temporarily fixed that this is bound to happen again and whether it starts at the sewer line or whether it starts with the tree root, i don't know that we can say that definitively haoe but it's an interplay and it's bound to happen again is what our understanding is. >> in our plan, we discussed this with sunset concrete we were originally going to bring the same arborist out, but what they have proposed is we're

going the replace the entire sidewalk so it doesn't look like a patch work quilt that's what the people next door who tried to spend as little money as possible, na's the cheapest way to do it we want to replace the entire apron all the sidewalk put an attractive tree like an architect would select and we look forward to working with urban forest, we want them to specify the size of the tree basin, specify the tree and we hope we can get to something that works. >> go ahead. >> what about mr. buck's proposal of expanding the basin won't that sort of cure the problem? >> what that would do is decrease the amount of damage just to the surface sidewalk because there's more room for roots to come up and push. it wouldn't have any bearing at all on the sewage problem.

it also -- we pointed out a number of problems also that the tree to us is very much out of proportion with the house it impinges on the lines above we'd like to put in something that looks like an architect's plan or new construction and nurture that tree as best we can. >> and also the basin would just solve part of the sidewalk problem. there's still sidewalk that would extend beyond the basin that still would be affected by the tree roots and damage the sidewalk. >> thank you. >> when you -- excuse me, when the side sewer line was replaced was it repaired or replaced? >> we don't know what the work entailed. it was done by dpw, they dug a trench that was about maybe 6-8 feet deep and went down. they showed us the old -- some

of the pipes that they pulled out, you could not see any light whatsoever, it was completely blocked and they said it's just a matter of time it's going to happen again -- >> was the material clay tile? >> you know, i'm just -- >> was it reddish in color? >> it was black with black sewage. i couldn't really tell i'm sorry. >> and then some repair work was done on the street? >> yes, we brought a lawsuit against the city that the city settled because of some of the damage and you know, it's just -- we think it involves liability. >> was the street work a replacement of the line?

>> they appear to have replaced a portion of it. >> and do you know what -- >> i don't all i know is we were very eager to hear them say, this is going to fix things and they said exactly the opposite. this will fix things for a while but it's a matter of time before it happens again. >> okay i have a couple of questions too. do you live at the property? >> we do. >> okay. the second question is when's the last time you had an issue with the sewage? >> it's been -- >> waxer maybe 18 months, something like that. >> after the resurface of fulton? >> so, it hasn't required digging up since then. >> our current tenant is a baker and he's not there very much because he works baker's hours but to your question it has not happened very recently. >> according to your briefs, the last receipt was back in

2008. >> the last receipt? >> yeah, for work being done for damaged sewage or repair? >> no that would have been 2014 maybe. because a lot of the work that was -- when this happens, we have to go through a chain of behaviors where we had to first get a private plumber out there to assess everything. he usually runs a snake runs it out through our site into the street site and says i'm afraid to go any farther because it's roots and i'm going to lose my snake. then we have to call dpw, if they're not inundated. >> i'm going over your brief of receipts that were submitted. >> no, it's happened since then, this has happened in the last couple of years. if you have access to dpw's

records, you can probably find upwards of 50 calls for service. >> okay. >> to them, and they've been out about 10 12 times, yeah. >> okay, thank you. >> there's a power shot that we take the sewage out and let the flow go through it. >> okay, thank you, we can hear from mr. buck, his rebuttal. >> good evening, chris buck with public works. no rebuttal other than to just add that i do take the history of the sewage backup very seriously. it's not the goal of the urban forestry for someone to go through that amount of backups

so with that we acknowledge that without a doubt and i want today start my presentation with acknowledge hating and with that, i don't have any other rebuttal. >> mr. buck, do you have any logs of dpw's actions that were done at the property? >> i don't have -- well, we have access to is our own urban forestry inspections and i didn't find any notes or calls from the property owner which is not unusual, i'm sure they were dealing with the department that's going to address the damage out in the road and my sense is that would be the puc. i'm not sure which department that it would be that they're working with directly. unfortunately, there's not a lot of communication, it's like we're separate world ts they deal with replacing a sewer line, so there's not a lot of access to those records that i would have. >> okay, thank you. >> thank you.

>> commissions the matter -- commissioners, the matter is submitted. >> it would be interesting where the [inaudible] are going to go with this, i've been very consistent. i think there is a need for renewal of our urban forest and i've been quite supportive of private efforts to renew that. i probably would be more interested in -- should the vote go that way to see if we can get as large of a replacement tree as possible. >> how about what the representative recommended regarding an additional landscaping in front since it's a large frontage? >> i don't recall reading that.

>> commissioners, any thoughts? >> i heard from the appellant some real strong and constructive reasons why this action should take place health reasons and in having grown up i remember i grew up on 29th avenue, i remember when they planted the little trees. i go back to the street where i grew up those trees are monstrous and they were like little lollipop trees when they planted them and i honestly don't think when they planted them 50 years ago, nobody expected them to be as large as they ever grew, i'm not an arborist but what i heard was there was no selfish