g from, it's not leaking anywhere else. i made a lot of repairs in other places, it is ameliorated the situation because the leaks weren't really coming from there they were coming from this direction. the winds generally come from west to east but on some occasions, blow the other way and that's where the leak is coming from. the walls inside the unit have been contaminated with mold and should be removed. the tenants want -- or the owners there don't want to remove them, they want to keep them and put this vinyl wall up that won't stop the water from coming in and it's not going to get rid of the mold. what you need to do is go in and take all that contaminated sheet rock out, seal that wall, reframe it because it's

probably rotten, and fix it that way because just putting on the siding isn't going to solve the problem, it does not address where the water is coming from and it won't stop the water from coming in. i'm out of time? alright. i said my piece then. thank you. >> thank you, we can hear from the permit holders now. permit holders, are you ready? >> good evening thank you, good evening, appeals board, my name is justin raade we're the owner of 867 vermont street

which is the subject of tonight's hearing. i want to tell you the store have i of a leak and our intent to fix the leak, in 2009, there was a strong wind storm and a rain that produced a leak on the south wall build it made a puddle in the basement this was noticed by the hoa and they had a meeting to discuss fixing for that leak, we got a quote to replace the whole south wall which is at enof life, it is a fly wood frame from 1989 when the property was built and it deteriorated and needed to be replaced so we got a bid for the whole wall repair for about 35 thousand dollars, but chose instead to do a sort of superficial repaint and renail repair job, that was in 2009 websinger moved in in june of 2009 and the leak returned there was another wind storm with rain and the leak came in, in many place ins our unit, so

it came in our master bedroom, it came in our closet, it came in on the second level which is below that and 25 feet away from the street, in our den and it came below that again in our basement and made another puddle on the floor in our basement the flood was bad that we made a claim but they denied our claim so then we got stuck with the stucco job to replay the aging of the plywood side, again hoa decided to make a patch work repair so we had small panels installed where we thought the leak was coming from and put the see lant on there but unfo*rnl gently the leak returned in late 2014 with the big storm we had here with the wind and the rain, the leak

came back and this time it was worse i want to show you some photographers on where the leak happened in our unit. so this is our bedroom, the leak comes in along the base board here along floor soaks the carpeting in one corner and the other corner of the room as well as the closet. this is a close-up of the closet area you can see some water damage there. the leak also -- during that storm in december of 2014, the leak came in in a new place it came in through our master bedroom which is about 15 feet towards the street from our side of the master bathroom which is about 15 feet from the outside of our bedroom, and then one level down in our den, the leak comes in on the

ceiling here, you can see it bulges and you can see the damage here that comes in from the water from the leak. also there's a leak and some water damage here on the sill. i took a shot on the water damage on the second level. and finally in the basement on the first level you can see there's a puddle here and that's when the water penetrates into the wall and collects on the flooring. so we doubled our efforts to get bids to repair the wall. we got two more bids, one from sears which is about 35 thousand dollars and from

alside prod insul elated vinyl alside was responsive, he's been installing for many years he's here tonight with us to lend support to our cause if need be. so we've also got some photographs here of a property that alside did with the same pronlt we chose it's a building on 19th street, you can see it's a good looking project, that's what we're planning to use. we have a letter of support from this property owner he's happy with the project, the neighbors compliment him on it. there's another close-up.

so we're confident that allen is a professional contractor experienced with a good product to solve the problem and we believe it the best solution for the approximate we believe the leak is coming in three separate units separated by 20 feet, it linings pr the back to the front of our property so i don't mrao*ef it's a single location of a leak that comes in it's the whole wall at the end of life, so we believe we've done our diligence, we solicited five bids from contractors we have a good product that has a lifetime warrantee and has been installed in other places in san francisco, it's far superior from the old vinyl products that 30 years ago and we think it's a best fit to our problem, so i'll finish up with mentioning that we have support o our other hoa members, we have [inaudible] in the

audience and [inaudible] who faces the wall directly they are considering repair for a similar repair that they have on their south wall. just this weekend, i finally got over a bad case of bronchitis and really it was lingering for four weeks i couldn't shake it it's the second case of bronchitis i've had this year, i got bronchitis in january with a similar effect, so the last time i had bronchitis, i don't even remember maybe 30 years ago when i was a kid, so i aoep not saying that the mold in our house is causing the bronchitis but it sure makes me concerned about my health, my wife's health, the health of my two small children so i would request that the board uphold the permit to repair the job, fix the wall on the south wall of our house and repair the exterior and solve the problem effectively. >> what floor is your unit? >> it extends over three floors

w e have some on the third floor which is the garage space and we have living space on the second and third floor. >> and there's another floor above you. >> there's two more floors above us. >> and those floors are both experiencing leaking as well? >> above us i mean? not that i know of. >> and does the unit still have the same wall? >> yes, it does. >> thank you. >> one last question. the appellant showed us earlier, there was a four inch space between the building to the right versus this building. where's the property line? >> so of course in the course of doing the job, we want the extend beyond the property line, we know it's not allowed so what we're choosing will stay within the envelope it currently sits on, if you look at the south wall, there's features and trim that extend

about an inch and a half between the face of the wall, the prung product that we're going to install is an inch and 3/8. the trim is over 2 inches to the wall. >> assuming the trim is not -- >> okay. >> thank you. >> okay, thank you. >> mr. duffy? >> just on the building permit application is a [inaudible] of the current permit for the installation of alside prodigy understand elated vinyl the application was reviewed by the planning department and the building department, it doesn't seem to have any building

issues from a dbi point of view, the building code does cover the installation of final siding in chapter 14, it's 1405.4, i read it earlier, it talks about the [inaudible] process, so it's well covered in the code as well, we hope that if it's installed per code, that's what we expect from a licensed crack tor, so there aren't complaints about the property we didn't get plaints about the mold, there's no complaints of sizing of the building. i'm available for any questions. >> thank you. i haven't seen such a large plywood wall in quite a while. >> yes, i know, some of the buildings. >> the 70's or 80's. >> thank you, and mr. sanchez, nothing? is there public comment on this item?

step forward. >> my name is judy daniel and i live in 865 vermont street, we have the mirror image to the [inaudible] next dar, so our unit is not affected by the leak but i've been a resident there for 20 years. we've been dealing with this leak with the home owners association. we tried the band-aids as i call them and nothing's worked. i'm confident that justin and gladia have done their due diligence, we voted and had a unanimous vote, i forget the date, this year though, before justin went to get the permit and mr. ernst changed his vote, and handed us this appeal so i'm here to speak in favor of going ahead with the vinyl siding and getting the leak

fixed and also to avoid the mold, which affects all units if anybody wants to sell or whatever. thank you. >> thank you, is there any other public comment? okay, seeing none, then mr. ernst you have three minutes of rebuttal. >> i just want to reiterate the point that they can put all the siding on there if they want, if they don't stop the intrusion of the water from where it's really coming from, they're still going to have mold. the way to fix this is not to put cheap plastic siding on the build what you need to do is take the sheet rock off the wall, get rid of it seal the wall, reframe it because it's probably had a lot of water in there it's probably weak, it probably has deteriorated and has lost seismic resistance. it's an important part of a

wall. and fix it from the inside, trying to put plastic on the outside isn't going to work. it's -- why would you expose your children to this mold? i mean, you just have to take this sheet rock out of it and reframe it and fix it the right way, and the business about the garage, the fwraj got hit by a car, that hold down there has got ining to do with the siding, it has a deck above it and that was never properly prepared and that was years ago and you can't put the two things together because they're two separate incidents. i own the property next door, i'm going to build another building next to it so it's going to be covered up eventually anyway, but i don't think it's going to solve the problem. i think you're going say, alright, you put the cheap siding on and it will do it and

it won't do it it's not going work, if i'm wrong i'm wrong but i'm not. but then what? i mean, they need to take the sheet rock off and fix that anyway, you should take it off, take a look, see what's happened don't guess don't hope that we don't have to ever paint again solution is the one that you want, this is not the one you want, what you want is to cure the situation, the way you do that is from the inside, you have to get rid of the sheet rock anyway, it has to go. when you do that, you'll see where the problem is and you can deal with them then, you can deal with them with the best way possible the cheapest way possible. that's my point. >> thank you. >> rebuttal from the permit holders? >> hi my name's gladia, i just

wanted to point out the fact that we don't think that this leak is only due to that space wean the two buildings. the plywood siding that we have on the wall that's 20 years old, and you can see on this photo is clearly end of life. we need a wall that protects us from the elements first of all. secondly the trough, i refer to it as many feet back into our backyard 42 feet into our backyard away from our house and that 4 inch wide ditch between the two buildings is very, very deep. there's not standing water in that ditch absolutely not and the carpeting that's getting wet is five feet above that ditch so it's not an issue of a paom of water down below leaking up to our bedroom up above that's not happening and

the other issue i want to make clear there is that section where the two buildings are side by side. we're seeing leaks up to at least 23 feet forward of that building so very far away from these two buildings are side by side, we're seeing it all the way through our bedroom and to our bathroom and into our den, so very far away from that area. >> and to address carl's point i mean, we have a modern vinyl insulated product, it's different from the vinyl siding products years ago, and i showed properties and he said that's a discontinued product that [inaudible] used to make which is not representative of what he installs today what we have today is actually, you

know, much more rigid there's inlacing here, it's a more wood-like strublgbacker structural appearance. it's a green product, i don't believe it's going to rattle in the wind, it will be a better solution to the wall leak and our goal is to fix the water leak from the outside and prevent mold from happening, during the last storm in december we smelled mold strongly for tweaks, it's persisted if our unit, we tried blowing it and drying it out and it didn't stop until the rain went away. >> are you folks finished? >> yes. >> have you ever considered hiring a water intrusion expert? >> we did. >> who did you hire? >> i don't the have his name on hand? >> mcguinness or one of those firms? >> i don't have his name, it was right after we put in that

request for the insurance company to cover the leak intrusion, it was right after that we had someone come in who was a leak finding expert. >> what did they say? >> they said we need today repair the wall. >> okay. >> i have a question as well, have you opened up any of the spaces, any of the -- have you opened any exploratory holes in the interior property? >> no we haven't, but that leak finding expert who came in said he thought -- he was of the opinion that we were going to find so many areas that were letting in water we would end up opening our entire wall. >> i'm sorry you can't speak for him, i do agree slightly to some point with your neighbor in that if you put a new wall over existing damaged areas, you're still going to have an issue. >> right i mean, the thing right now, there is no

documented mold. we haven't documented there's mold there. there was for the first time that smell after the last storm and our purpose is to stop that from ever happening again stop any further damage from occurring and then we will investigate that of course. if there is some documentation of mold, then -- >> okay. >> okay, thank you, is there anything further from mr. duffy? go ahead. >> commissioners, just to add on the mold, that's a very serious concern. i think the owner should take up seriously on make ago mold report done on the building. it's putting the [inaudible] but if you have mold in a wall, it's my experience it's not good, we all know that, there's health things for kids, i've seen some effects of that and it's not good, so i would --

and just tagging on to what commissioner fung said, i do think that a proper report would be good from a -- you know, some expert on the leak, put thing siding on, you can put the siding on, we don't have a problem with that, but we have always said, the building envelope is where you see the building from, the siding is really an -- you want to be sealing that in from -- you want to be checking that when what you're putting the siding on is properly sealed as well and maybe there's some leaks with the flashing but i don't think there's anything wrong to put ton siding but i would encourage them to -- i haven't heard them sealing the wall or looking for more the source of the leak, as you know, commissioner fung that water could be weaning in from the roof, from flashing water could still get in there. are we going to stop them -- i

think the siding's going to help, i think maybe they need to do a little bit more to make sure this isn't a waste of money. just o -- a thought. >> 35 thousand to rip out all the plywood. >> leaks are tox fiing, there could be a leak coming from the other side of that building trick ling down. >> what failed is probably the building paper behind it. >> that's what i'm getting at now and it concerns me, the inside, getting some readings on the mold levels, if that was my house that's what i would do. >> i would rip it all out. >> are you done? >> i'm done. >> so the initiative to put on the siding is legal? >> yes. >> the issue really is a

homeowner's dispute. the hoa in their wisdom have chosen this is the direction they want to go. it's a perfectly legal direction to go and maybe the wrong direction but we all make choices. and it's a democracy and they have a vote and they chose to do it this legal way and maybe they're doing it wrong, but in fact putting up vinyl is not illegal, it's not impacting the neighborhood, it's not doing anything wrong according to anything it just may be according to some people a bad choice and maybe they should do something else before they do it but in fact it's okay to do? >> yes, exactly, that's well said, that's what i got up to say, i can't put it any better myself, yes. thank you.

>> commissioners, the matter is submitted. >> would you like to make a motion? >> i'm in agreement with that position. >> so, deny the appeal based on the fact that there is nothing wrong with the project, nothing illegal, it doesn't do harm, it doesn't break any laws, it doesn't -- you know, it's the best choice and best advice of the homeowner's association at the site. >> you consider a friendly amendment, deny the appeal that the permit was properly issued. >> thank you, deny the appeal as the permit was properly issued. >> make it easy for victor. >> thanks, sorry victor, i know it's 9:30 at night. >> there's a motion on the floor from commissioner swig with that amendment to uphold the permit ton basis that it was properly issued.

on that motion commissioner fung? >> aye. >> president lazarus? >> aye. >> vice-president honda? >> aye. >> and commissioner wilson? >> aye. >> thank you, the vote is 5-0, this permit is upheld on that basis. >> thank you. >> we'll move ton item 10 appeal number 10-053, mare rin amine versus the department of building inspection, the project is on 300 wawona street, protesting the issuance on march 11, 2015 to kim clash of an alteration permit, add 2nd story master bedroom and bath, remodel and expand kitchen, connect basement with internal stair finish and expand basement you have 7 minutes. whenever you're ready.

>> good evening, commissioners. i'm marilyn amini ask i'm here

to appeal the permit that was issued, actually the primary issue is that this is a horizontal addition into a rear yard that is not compliant in terms of the required minimum area and i'll put this on overhead i'm not sure, how do i do this, have i -- victor? the addition would be put in the rear right here, right in this area, and i have on this board and i don't know if you can see it but i numbered areas of the rear yard that are

not code client and are inaccessible. are you able to read the numbers down there? is that something possible because i brought individual sheets if i could hand -- >> i can't read it. >> you can't read it? can i hand these out, it's the same thing that i'm distributing. >> do you have a copy for the parties? my time is going. >> just pause it. >> i have for myself, yeah. >> well, we'll share. >> we can share. >> i don't know if the departments need one as well.

>> okay, so on this piece of paper that i gave you, if you look up, this is 300 wawona area here, there are numbers 1, 2, 3 and 4, there is a line drawn straight across from the lot line at right anings tolls the lot line which is code client assist tent with section 130b and so this line falls on the plain of the rear wall of the building and it ends over here intersecting my front setback lot line, and so i had on overhead is picture of where

that would be put and i have pictures of the areas that i'm describing, so this picture showed the garage that's there and the paved drive and that whole area's number 1 and 742 square feet it occupies and then there's area behind the garages that's inaccessible and i have pictures up here or rather pictures here that show the area behind the garage that's unusable. and then there is an area fenced off proximal to the garage which is back here, it's number 3, this shows the fence and all the shrubbery