mr. ross 0 a couple of questions on page 6 of your report of presentation i guess in terms of the number of casual short-term rentals, commercial short-term rentals in total so for the commercial short-term rentals it is the low impact is 15 hundred and high 19 hundred and the higher impact is 3 thousand. >> correct. >> it's includes both units that are used inclusive with a short-term rental noting no residents it is illegal and continues to be illegal and should be as well as hosted rentals you have someone living there and they rent out a room or part of a room for 88 days a

year. >> that's correct primarily commercial yes private room also you a so clearly if i for example they've been living in a two-bedroom unit i'm living in one and for hundred days a year i rent it out as a short-term rental the other room and the rest whatever the case maybe testified as commercial. >> that's correct over 88. >> you can understand why one of the big issues you might understand why one has a issue are the dlaens and your transparent of the definition out of included but i don't know. i don't want to dispute whether or not it's commercial but. >> i can respond supervisor wiener

that the concept of the what was is substituting for or an opportunity for a roommate a sub lease or a long term tenant so 88 days might not be the best but a cut off where can be occupied by itself tenant. >> no, i understand there is a lot of discussion whether or not this is taking away from roommate situations this is important for housing in the city but if someone a revent out their room hundred and 90 or 88 days a year it could be the case that person didn't want someone in their own unit they're living it in for 365 nights a year some people want that and are fine and don't have to turnover the

room every two days for a new person to be there and somewhat easier to have a sub tenant. >> absolutely i'll say that supervisor wiener i've talked with people in this project have told us they don't want roommates it's easier to have short-term rental arrangement that's fine but does it take away from the housing stock yes in other words, to people's personal response i have had bad roommates. >> yeah. but maybe family members or friends come and can't do that there are many, many reasons why someone in their echo unit will have a spare room not wanting to have a permanent roommate it is not the case every spare bedroom in san

francisco has been used for the short-term rental i'm not arguing i'm not but in terms of the number of commercial you say as commercial short-term rentals whether 192 two or three thousand units do you have a sense of the breakdown in terms of of how many of that number of that number how many are permanent truly hotel listed units no residents it is an asbestos at the owner only using for short-term rentals versus someone renting there and rent out part of a spare bedroom. >> the only measure some are booktd 365 nights a year i assume no one is living there i don't have that number on the fingertips i have certainly some that wish 2 hundred or over

didn't mean someone can't come in on night 2 hundred and 75 but a hotel for example is 80 percent occupied so you know we can breakdown that way another way we can look at we know that 5 hundred of the hosts are studying the minimum 365 days that's a help that sounds like an ongoing business and lemon be clear in my question of the naubz that thought number of commercial unites that you have identified of that number do you know or have a sense of what percentage have actual residents living there or versus what percentage have nots toil residents living there. >> right no, we don't have that

information. >> okay. so we don't - so when we talk about the number of short-term rentals you express it as the percentage of the total number of vacant units in the city and have internal debates we have x number of vacancies according to our report somewhere between 26 and 29 perished of the vacant units are commercial short-term rentals. >> right so i think in terms of your question there could be a taint or might not be a tenant when the earnings steady what the medium rent for the in a minute the tenant may not need a roommate any longer or may be

able to occupy more than one units it starts the impact the short-term rental. >> i totally understand that when we talk about the vacant this got a lot of media attention somewhere between one quarter and a half of vacant units in san francisco for short-term rental unit that got the headlines and a lot of media play my understanding when we talk to talk about vacant units in san francisco i live in a 2 bedroom if you were to live in a 2 bedroom unite and have other units entry that is not typically defined as a vacant unit in san francisco when we talk about the vacant units no one is living there off the market for whatever reason

so this commercial short-term rental number includes the units where there is no residential only used for short-term rentals but is it also includes units you might have a person living there 365 a year or 2 hundred plus but they're frequently more 88 days a year rent out that spare bedroom are portion of a room it is misleading to say that between a quarter and a half of the vacant big iebts are short-term rentals when that number includes units with permanent residents in them and your unable to say what the breakdown it between the commercial short-term rentals with the residents and have a

permanent residents they rent out the barroom a lot i think this is a misleading statement. >> i can address that supervisor wiener what our concept was that unit to be used by the hours market not to say how many people live in the unite so it is curling occupied by one taernl but maybe a two unit rental and could be on the market for that configuration f even if it is the same person moving in with the resident we didn't count the number of people. >> it is totally it's a fair argument but if you're going to do that then in terms of felt beginning what is is a vacant unit you can't look at the number of completely vacant

units but every unit in san francisco where you have a bedroom in that condo or apartment didn't have a permanent residents that's a much larger universe we'll not be talking about a quarter in terms of nurmentd a and the detriment your icing apples and oranges and this percentage is not comparing apples to apples i don't agree i think that is a fair measure i understand your point there is a lot of rooms that are probably unused but measure that has basis statistic certainly the sworn bureau is a great way to start i'm sure people have rooms in their units could be redistributing and not.

>> i'll stop i have to say i think it is truly comparing apples and oranges i think that so is we are going to use the denominator with the vacated units but the numerator is plus ones that contain a permanent unit that is not how you compare them it is the same things for both it flatsz the percentage and leads to a lot of misunderstanding by the public i'll stop there and supervisor farrell. >> thank you, madam chair so first of all thanks for the report for all your offices continued hardy have a few questions as well i think that supervisor wiener covered at least i have

questions in the category versus commercial yours i appreciate the lack of data and in order to do a study the modeling experience was a challenge i think that a little bit to supervisor wiener was saying some of the statistics were played as transits as opposed to estimates and means and so forth that is challenging as policymakers how to look at the data taking a little bit of a different take i can in terms of vacant units the discussion that supervisor wiener and you have as opposed to the numerator and denominator i want to look at the short-term rentals holistically across the city of san francisco i want to have a comprehensive approach because i do believe 53 we should support the existence by protecting the neighborhood we need to look at the entire

industry if we are going to be effective at the board of supervisors. >> when you talk about the number of commercial units that are lists in a neighborhood as the percentage of the vacant units to me that's the wrong thing to look at we should look at the airbnb short-term rentals the overly units in the neighborhood to begin with what's the total impact on the total neighborhood when you have commercial unites and the longer report there was not the wish short one you had hate ashbury and western edition and the airbnb are 39 percent the vacant units but also they're less than one percent of the overall units in that neighborhood the reality we don't know why certain units are vacant when the rental unit are higher than they could be some don't want to put their

units on the market so to say it is misleading as policymakers we need to look at this issue you look at the other wundz in the mission you have 29 percent added vacant actually 1.3 percent in the overall vacancies and it is around one percent your tables earlier, you said .4 and .800 of the hours market it is a comment from my prospective i think we showcasing should be looking at that as opposed to the other numbers theires batting the question and driving a highlight i know but it is the wrong thing to be looking at it is challenging to just whether it's a numerator or denominator and looking at want numbers of unions phone number on the

market it is completely impossible to judge so that correlation we should by looking at the overall impact of the city and the neighborhood i want to ask about though one of your policy recommendations that i think the one i probably had the biggest challenge one of the pieces legislation f before us to provide basically the data back to the city and county of san francisco when youtube the booking information on a quarterly basis again from my prospective the only way to gather the data was airbnb i think what i suggest having looked at the other businesses and websites that's the only place whether it does not begins with you use the analysis if analogy if you list the one open

craigslist for salsa your ford truck craigslist didn't know when iuoe you sold or where. >> for vacation rentals they don't know what was transacted so as the looked at the units you i did my own scrape from the tape websites if airbnb has between 5 and 6 thousand units it is whatever they only had 11 listing and flip key 44 and vacation.org hundred plus and craigslist 14 hundred and 6 of any public comment? rental o and on and on if we're talking about a major policy recommendations to require the data reporting back my challenge is that that is

scapegoating would be company but if we are looking at the regulating this industry as a whole how does it impact the neighborhoods and how can he regulate that we need that holistic approach that didn't take the expedite to target one company but all the listing and airbnb is a moisture in san francisco what i've heard the trends continue to make that more that way so as the city to only targeting one company is half the problem if he consider the short-term rentals so from my prospective i'd like so say we can't collect data and from the majority of listing in san francisco from my prospective is

a much better approach to streamline the process to people that point better short-term rentals we, the jury at city of san francisco i ago that the statistics are poor we need more and more people to register but from my prospective may i see it, sir? that's how we regulate it most effectively if we look at the entire industry and encourage those strildz i individuals to list they're the ones that are hooting all the data themselves they're required to keep track of how many nights so those are more comments than anything i appreciate the denims but those point to a lot of wide data 15 hundred versus 3u thousand that's double is a huge range and ultimately a different approach we i'd like to take this opportunity be democrat

emphasizing one company they're a big point but a minority of the total listing as a board of supervisors and the mayors we need to look at the issue across the entire city that make a long term effect again appreciate our hard work >> next and final presentation from ed egging gone the mayor's office of housing and community development. >> that's actual the controller's office of development; is that right. >> yes. that's right.

>> good afternoon, everyone. supervisor cowen and supervisors ted from the office of confirmation analysis we've issued an economic impact i'll be happy to answer any questions i'll start on page of much of the background of the other presenters have shared with you but on page 6 we list what i think is the best data available on the extent of the san francisco housing stock this is a question that the consensus bureau asked annually in 2006. when the american company sent to an address and unrefund a consensus goes and determines why if it is vacant because a resident is not coming up it and

that's where this data comes from it indicates it tourism is not new it is from 990 there were 4 thousand units recorded in san francisco button certainly grown if in the 2030 to 2012 period such by 2012 we were be looking at 12 thousand units in the city used for tourism purchase that number dropped in 2013 back to a level in 2006 it is very important to point out that this use of housing stock for tourism is not matt haney housing units are taken off the market it didn't mean that it is permanently lost to the housing stock but we think it is important to provide that context i want to talk about the benefits of the short-term rentals and also to the

potential costs short-term rentals provide 3 source of benefits additional income to the host that list them and those hosts owe hotel tax a create a benefit for others fiscal picture for the road to economy and by hosting additional visitors given how occupied our hometowns are it increases the spending in san francisco bans the travel research that the budget analyst relied on we've estimated that the total value of including multiplier effects of the visitor and hotel spends worked out to $276 per hosting day a it's a per day as a unit a full unit is occupied in san francisco on the other side the cost

associated with the risk of higher housing our report is taken starts with the priemgsz from the planning department that the current ordinance on enforceable and this creates an incentive in our view for a unit to be taken off the market entirely for short-term rental on a full-time basis if that is the case a unit is teen off the horse trailer the loss to the city's economy is 2 hundred and 50 thoitsdz thoughts were unit because of the higher rents everyone is paying and also the indirect loss associated with that we see both sides of the economic benefits of the accommodating more short-term rental to get the hosts to spend the hotel tax

traded off migrants romantic risk that a cap is too high could create an incentive to take a rental office the market if the incentive exists to take that it is negative of used for a short-term rental everyday of the year before you talk about the methodology of the work i want to make a point of enforcement we're basically assuming that the annual cap in each marines ordinance is enforceable we don't have data or be able to evaluate the proposal we're only looking at the effectiveness of the different caps in the two ordinances maximizing the chance for of a economic okay for the city we're starting we don't believe there is day on the actual number of the hounts

handing out we don't there there is data because we can't study people's bother we have a study the incentives that condition their behavior the way we do that is look at the related responsibility of putting a vacant unit for rental rent by looking at was it bedroom rents on craigslist and looking at how much a host who took a vacant unit and put it on airbnb would make doing the same activity we would then is how many days per year of short-term rentals would on around host need to conditional equal the income annually from craigslist that's our trade off we look the budget

analyst report relied upon a scrape of the airbnb website from december 2014 and relied on the scrape throughout 2014 of krltd website and received that from the planning department this is what our relating result was we only included the neighborhoods that had a decent data this is a selection for neighborhoods more than 20 of both airbnb in 2014 and craigslist throughout the year this slide shows the average craigslist rent and the airbnb average price were one thing i'll stress it is important to compare the market rents and the not medium rents that are inclusive of people from rent control the trade off that a possessor and owner of a handing

out i have a vacant unit do you want to rent it out to do a vacant on the short-term rental market those are the two best indicators of our income of doing we took those and made assumptions about the income with the assumption that an owner of a united or a tenant in the unit for that matter takes the option that provides the highest income during the year this is the slide that provides the relative of this analyze it shows for the neighborhood i've shown we estimate their annual income renting out a 2 bedroom apartment in those neighborhoods and their average income with airbnb prices for two bedrooms in that neighborhood and finally, the number of days they'll are so operate as a

result short-term rental to get to this break even period this is the first column divided by the second column the number of days to get to an vvnt equal income if the cap is blow and it's enforced effectively no incentive for someone to take the housing off the marketed and pursue it as a short-term rental for a number of days below that path numbers vary by hundred and 23 days of short-term rental in refraining up to a maximize of hundred and 20 days in the inner sunset to break even i think a couple of points first of all, if you have a vacant unit and have a contention to treat is it as a full-time short-term rental treat is it as a hotel then you

could probably achieve the maximum occupancy that a hotel would dhouf which is 85 to 90 percent of the year you can't go hive because you can't get our customers consumers - if we allowed people to bill 3 hundred plus this creates a risk the market will not find the right solution we need a cap, however it further suggests the caps discussed in those legislation the 060 day cap in supervisor campos and hundred and 20 day cap in supervisor farrell and the mayors legislation those are moot the vast majority of neighborhoods this would do- remove an incentive to take a unit off the market entirely

because of the mayor and supervisor farrell's legislation allows four short-term rental we allow the protection of the housing stock it has a positive economic impact we can't quantify because of the limitations i'll speak to a couple of indicate yots this analysis only covers 2 bedrooms unit this is only because craigslist didn't talk about the difference between studios there are more 2 bedroom units that fit our purpose, and, secondly this is an important part of the debate we only look at the vacant unit not comparing to the rent you got on get on the private list on craigslist if you are looking for a full-time rental this is