- this is merely trying to clean up the legislation by the mechanism by the department may enforce you you know being in compliance with the existing law. >> we're going to inflict onerous fines $500 is expensive thursday offense rather than to have someone levi a $500 offense what's going to happen you'll spend a lot of time and money disputing this so this is an because you are amending the legislation and some opportunity to address and what is nothing like that an obvious short coming of the existing legislation and relate to the business specific business

entities you're trying to legislate to clean up some of the stuff so. >> uh-huh. >> there's a tremendous amount of ambiguity there's no ambiguity i'm saying fine that person didn't come to buy gasoline and put it in their car if they brought a gasoline container give me two ounces of gasoline it didn't matter they're not putting it in their vehicle if that's the way you want to leave it maybe that's the best possible thing they're great i'm clear on what the businesses say but if you're intention is not that your lying a big gray area for i mean quite frankly let's make is it easier for the inspectors i don't want to go out a into the fold and enforce the laws of city and

county of san francisco if i don't know what i'm enclosing. >> it might not a good time to ask the director of the environmental health what the process looks like i think this is far let's complicated and far lessen reduce this is based on the conversation with dpw but maybe he can help to address some of the concerned. >> great i see we'll have public comment as well. >> hi richard lee acting director the environmental health the way we'll do it if we got a compliment to go through 311 or a couple of ways the compliment will be you know, i went to this gas station and i wasn't able to use the bathroom so we got it complaint we'll send occult an

inspector sometimes assuming at night time and have to schedule that we don't have inspectors night lifely once in a while they'll purchase something maybe gasoline or not and they'll say can i use the bathroom and if the person that's the cashier or someone said no. you can't we'll go back and site them saying they're in violation and give them a warning the first time and say we document that that and if we got another compliment maybe we go back in a couple of weeks or a month and get the same thing to say that you can't use the bathroom we'll site them for the first violation the $500.

>> so i'm sorry, sir my brarmdz are for people buying chips. >> i don't have anything f between gasoline or chips if i bought chips i'll consider myself a patron there's no reference to chips in the legislation but a specific recommendation to gasoline so i'm not going to let you in mire bathroom whites the elevation because this is an administrative regulation this is an means for a appeal and an administrative law judge so. >> it it will take a precedent case to aid this issue if this is an issue and maybe i'm- i'm not trying to be a pain point

butt but make sure we pass good law i'm a small business owner i see this i have a service station in a particularly troublesome area and isn't it a fact my services states room is used for prostitution and i'm constantly cleaning the bathrooms and my patrons are disgusted i can't sell glancing gasoline and clean my restrooms all day long i'm going to shut this thing i can't run a business i can't afford to hire a numerator custodian but if i know that people will pay for gasoline and not intelligent and hopefully they're not doing drugs do them in their car i'm in an awkward position as as

small business owner and since my job to be an advocate for small business the only reason i'm asking the question and as a volunteer to make sure that the city of chicago pass good laws to seems logical to address those issues we've had a mock argument you come up to my window and bought chips effectively trapping the end of the situation and i'm explaining to you why i'm not going to let you and you say you're going to fine me anyway and appeal to a higher power. >> that is something we can get done i don't see specifically it says the patron is only buying gas it only says describes what the service station is but not the definition of a patron but the service station as for

specifically so it didn't begin the service station as a convenience store i'm pretty certain not a law on the books referring convenience stores to provide bathrooms so not a requirement for walgreens if in their not selling someone something in the store a corner store my local liquor store to have a bathroom new all of a sudden two distinct business stores and it's my perspective someone comes and because a bag does that qualify them as a patron you're driving down the freeway and get to get gas and use the bathroom but this is a city and people obviously there is abuse of this so how do we

protect the small business business owner and create a situation we can define this so the business owner can protect their business and the patron can get the service. >> maybe we should clarify what the patron is. >> is it says that a patron defined is someone that only because gasoline this is an that's fine that's how it is 2rur7d but the purchase of the conversation is so we can vet those issues and determine if this has been considered it seems to me that the people preferring up this- rather than me not being a service station owner pursuing this i'll let public comment hear this out maybe i'm barking up the wrong tree i'm not trying to light a

fire. >> based on how it is written i'll say anyone that buys anything from that gas station is a patron. >> i'm going to let the people who are effected by this legislation weigh in on that i'll previous ferry it up. >> by way of coyotes in outreach i don't know what outreach has been done relate to this generally speaking we're passing along the constituents we'll have the public comment and effectually we'll be doing our jobs awesome. >> thank you, very much. abusive both of you for coming out tonight we've got more don't go anywhere commissioners first of all, questions for the guests. >> i have a question i believe that this definition is

necessary for the following reason first of all if convenience store corner store is not obligated to give access to its bathroom that if someone buys chips all of a sudden putting a burden on the gas station to give access to bathrooms there's no equal treatment so the point is right someone about buy a bag of chips from a liquor store or a grocery store versus the gas station and all of a sudden the gas station has to have an open bathroom giving access to the patron so we have to define patron it is essential i think in that sense

and second as was mentioned a lot of gas stations are in bad neighborhood and often owners of gas stations have to shut down to stop criminal activity there's nothing here that says an exception to the rule or reasonable restrictions even for patrons i mean a lot of bad activities in the neighborhood we should take into account because the gas station owner is obligated to provide safety on his premises and liability we're saying it is a strike liability if you have a gas station you have to sell chiu good morning spend the money for safety and you have small business it is a heavy burden i believe that is very difficult to honor to have

saturday morning facilities for everyone for someone that buys a bag of chips or pumps gas at any time of the day there are certain hours of the day it is dangerous to the patrons final question this is my final question is there - does this law prohibit charging for using of a bathroom. >> that is - does the supervisor jane kim amendment propose charging for bathroom no. >> we're not doing anything but providing a. >> your understanding i'm asking a question do you think under would this amendment improvement can the business owner charge for use of

boardroom for this is a public open public no restrictions what so for and as soon as you buy it is that your understanding and the law suspects during the business hours the bathrooms must be provides water for the patrons. >> if one way or another what you're saying it is the recommendation recommended to the supervisor i want to do that. >> we're advocates for small businesses i think that you know not to the detriment of the public that's not the idea we're imposing a heavy burden to keep a bathroom open all the times during hours of operation whether 2 o'clock in the morning or. >> it didn't say free of

charge. >> that's to the public. >> is it so almost. >> i'll say it is silent on this point. >> i was wondering that was an enumeration cost of keeping a bathroom i know i represent small restaurant they have portfolio as to keeping a bathroom clean a restroom clean up a major undertaking and comes with liability if you don't do that people fall and health and safety issues so the gas station is more prune to that type of liability open to that liability so we're saying to a business as soon as you have you sell grocery anyone can use your bathroom i'm thinking if someone comes to me for advise what will i say how can you keep it clean

in the department sites you $1,000 it will have a rippling effect on the operation that is not so bicycle it is onerous and dangerous for the future of patrons thank you for take into account. >> thank you, commissioner. >> commissioner ortiz-cartagena and i was wondering is there any difficult i wasn't aware of the policy in san francisco rooms open in gas stations like what's the data how many complainant has there been and things of that nature no enforcement mechanism so richard was saying earlier they have not been complaints specific to this law because i think there's not been a way to enforce that so- and i mean even

though sometimes your obviously legislation is brought up any measure or feedback from the public is did an urgent issue. >> that's for the small businesses and i can only speak in district 6 you know they certainly don't want to bear the burden of having to deal with you know folks not able to use room facilities you know during - that are getting products or services at a time when a gas station is open and that when they wake up in the morning or small business in our neighborhood wakes up in the neighborhood as has to deal with the ramifications or side effects of someone that purchased doctrines or soda from a gas station and had to relieve themselves and not able to use the rooms and doing it in the

proximity that will have to clean up that. >> we can't put the one in his on the gas stations to provide the restrooms. >> i'm giving this as february from the small businesses in our neighborhood. >> the city provides for rooms in certain merchant correspond and supervisor kim has been a champion of public restrooms and we say allotment a lot of money for the pit stop program it's in the tenderloin and south of market and been expanded to other parts of city. >> i'm sorry to interrupt the second question what's the cost to taxpayer in getting this enforcement is there projects how much it will cost of the inspectors. >> i don't know if that - richard can speak to that as far

as it is exciting inspectors we're not hire new people. >> we're going got to hire additional inspectors we have inspectors to work combing time. >> some are over time. >> it will be combing time maybe an hour and a half to two hours at the most to do enforcement action at night we actually have inspectors to do other work like month ago that do task force and there's a moderny. >> it will be a cost of the inspectors to go out and do there for an inspection and write up the inspection and we don't done one so for an inspectors to go out there it will be an hour and two headquarters or hours they'll

get comp time not over time. >> okay. >> okay. so i'm going to okay-so we've dealt with some the fines and generally the position that did final side should be such they cover the cost of enforcement and that the departments that come here and present fines and fee structures need to justify the costs associated with administering those fees and so i'll recommend that rather than simply i mean 5 hundred and 750 and one thousand a or try there there is this kind of a fine and structure i suggest it comes down with a rationale behind it otherwise that's not right the city is not

in the business to levy fines that are capricious or unfounded. >> some of the discussions we have had with the office is how much is enough for people not to continue to do that. >> and so i would question the well - and i'm not a lawmaker that proposal is a punitive one versus an enforcement and an attempt to get people to on behalf of in a - whatever way you're trying to steer them towards await being the heavy handed government the entirely health we have other fines that go up to one thousand dollars a day this is necessarily exceeds sometimes the cost for the enforcement. >> well, i'll say. >> sorry to interrupt you.

>> that is appropriate for some types of violations. >> it might be we went through a lengthy hearing the did you want expressed the fee final side structure they've constructed specifically for the enforcement of the legislation they were proposing. >> right so that i can't support anything that if have - i mean, if you're going to make that punitive spell that out it costs urging us hundred and $49 so go out there we feel appropriate this is a punitive deterrent businesses have the right to know what they're up against justin just used to defer to the legislation and tell you i am or not going to give you the bathroom key and ready to it

that 0 higher power if necessary again, we're not trying to be obstructs i thought you guys are opening up the legislation for revision let's make sure we dot all the i's and cross the t'sed that wr7b8 current done other legislation by the changes and a half made you know didn't get reflected in all the elements the legislation some days it take someone to do some proof reading that's cool. >> commissioner l. riley you had. >> i'm sorry i don't see anyone on my radar screen. >> i was going to ask the same question in terms of how many complaint. >> what itself liability patrons if you don't have the information have those laws been in if the record could reflect for a long minded and now want

to penalize the business owner for not allowing them to use the bathroom we don't know it is a real problem. >> you know whether or not people are breaking the law. >> wloofr there are complaints enforcement and complaints are two different things you feel you does a have an enforcement we evaporate heard a bunch of complaint. >> we have a solution looking for a problem. >> uh-huh. >> thank you so much for all your feedback i'll relay this to supervisor kim. >> commissioners any other questions or comments. >> i have a - i have one question i don't want to dwell open this issue in the legislation at section 7924 d it size at the request of the did

you want they've inspection the proposal why could the fire department contact the department of public health give me a why is it here how does it - >> this particular section as far as i know is actually a part of the - >> okay. >> yes. you have to fix it. >> there are concerns. >> maybe not drafting. >> (multiple voices. >> this is old legislation and probably just something that was development a long time ago and now we're amending the health code to address the specific

issue. >> maybe there's needs to be an amendment and okay. great well, this horse might be dead so seeing no other questions or comments i'll communication any members of the public that wants to comment. >> good evening jim ldda am i out of order. >> in the time. >> chamber of commerce i guess i'm in the position of having been the deputy mayor the fine this legislation has nothing to do with to with public access to boardrooms this was motor i was access to bathrooms and the changing time from service stations a pure gas stations not

convenient extorts and state laws that said you have to offer air and water it was taken away unless you're a motorist getting gasoline it is free from subtly it had to do not with the general publics assess to the gas station but the motorist to the gas station that was what was drafted almost thirty years ago if i walk up to the shell station on frankly and turk this law was written in 1986 didn't require that station to open that bathroom nor a 7-eleven market have to open it's booment you have to be a patron of the service station the service station is a facility to service motor vehicles not motorists you

have to serve the motor vehicle and be the motorist to have rights to the bathroom this is a terrible burden on small businesses throughout the city to require those businesses to open rooms for the general public comment when i was a young city attorney there was boomdz in the garage open to the public and motorists and the general public comment they've not been opened in decades let the city open the bombards and public garages to the public then we worry about who the gas station owners ought to open their bathroom the if that definition is detail every time it is found not open to the public a 5 hundred a day fine obviously the law to think combortsdz if the city attorney's office and violations

and i'll bet not one since 19986 when this law was impacted i urge you to debate this legislation by the board of supervisors. >> thank you gym next please. thank you, commissioners my name is dave i'm a resident no and operate two gasoline stations i'm asking you to oppose this legislation and came here to do what you can to reduce those excess violations charges that are being addressed and lastly that we could from the health department tool take care of that citywide health problem for not having bathrooms for the visitor that come to the

city of san francisco first of all here in san francisco those amounts are extensive and pick from the air we had an act in san francisco that was $250 for the california law for discriminate against people a woman stated at the kev iron we did the post service for females that came in this gal tracked us from time after time and he then sued us four during the time against males for the ladies day we had to pay $10,000 so you don't see that because pates a violation those amounts of 5 hundred and 7 hundred and

50 and one thousand dollars are the is that you, and, secondly, the cost you know service stations are unfairly being targeted as i mentioned commissioner we're discriminating against one class against many others and muni didn't allow their patrons to use the muni bathrooms that the bus drivers use why should we be tashltd those 80 stations left in san francisco ambassador taking care of the whole population and different people we get the transients and the street people and the world series slktsdz and the daily visitors and lastly i'm sorry lastly this is a citywide health problem a staggering proportion i know that people