the question and as a volunteer to make sure that the city of chicago pass good laws to seems logical to address those issues we've had a mock argument you come up to my window and bought chips effectively trapping the end of the situation and i'm explaining to you why i'm not going to let you and you say you're going to fine me anyway and appeal to a higher power. >> that is something we can get done i don't see specifically it says the patron is only buying gas it only says describes what the service station is but not the definition of a patron but the service station as for specifically so it didn't begin the service station as a

convenience store i'm pretty certain not a law on the books referring convenience stores to provide bathrooms so not a requirement for walgreens if in their not selling someone something in the store a corner store my local liquor store to have a bathroom new all of a sudden two distinct business stores and it's my perspective someone comes and because a bag does that qualify them as a patron you're driving down the freeway and get to get gas and use the bathroom but this is a city and people obviously there is abuse of this so how do we protect the small business business owner and create a situation we can define this so

the business owner can protect their business and the patron can get the service. >> maybe we should clarify what the patron is. >> is it says that a patron defined is someone that only because gasoline this is an that's fine that's how it is 2rur7d but the purchase of the conversation is so we can vet those issues and determine if this has been considered it seems to me that the people preferring up this- rather than me not being a service station owner pursuing this i'll let public comment hear this out maybe i'm barking up the wrong tree i'm not trying to light a fire. >> based on how it is written i'll say anyone that buys

anything from that gas station is a patron. >> i'm going to let the people who are effected by this legislation weigh in on that i'll previous ferry it up. >> by way of coyotes in outreach i don't know what outreach has been done relate to this generally speaking we're passing along the constituents we'll have the public comment and effectually we'll be doing our jobs awesome. >> thank you, very much. abusive both of you for coming out tonight we've got more don't go anywhere commissioners first of all, questions for the guests. >> i have a question i believe that this definition is necessary for the following reason first of all if

convenience store corner store is not obligated to give access to its bathroom that if someone buys chips all of a sudden putting a burden on the gas station to give access to bathrooms there's no equal treatment so the point is right someone about buy a bag of chips from a liquor store or a grocery store versus the gas station and all of a sudden the gas station has to have an open bathroom giving access to the patron so we have to define patron it is essential i think in that sense and second as was mentioned a lot of gas stations are in bad

neighborhood and often owners of gas stations have to shut down to stop criminal activity there's nothing here that says an exception to the rule or reasonable restrictions even for patrons i mean a lot of bad activities in the neighborhood we should take into account because the gas station owner is obligated to provide safety on his premises and liability we're saying it is a strike liability if you have a gas station you have to sell chiu good morning spend the money for safety and you have small business it is a heavy burden i believe that is very difficult to honor to have saturday morning facilities for everyone for someone that buys a bag of chips or pumps gas at any

time of the day there are certain hours of the day it is dangerous to the patrons final question this is my final question is there - does this law prohibit charging for using of a bathroom. >> that is - does the supervisor jane kim amendment propose charging for bathroom no. >> we're not doing anything but providing a. >> your understanding i'm asking a question do you think under would this amendment improvement can the business owner charge for use of boardroom for this is a public open public no restrictions what

so for and as soon as you buy it is that your understanding and the law suspects during the business hours the bathrooms must be provides water for the patrons. >> if one way or another what you're saying it is the recommendation recommended to the supervisor i want to do that. >> we're advocates for small businesses i think that you know not to the detriment of the public that's not the idea we're imposing a heavy burden to keep a bathroom open all the times during hours of operation whether 2 o'clock in the morning or. >> it didn't say free of charge. >> that's to the public. >> is it so almost. >> i'll say it is silent on

this point. >> i was wondering that was an enumeration cost of keeping a bathroom i know i represent small restaurant they have portfolio as to keeping a bathroom clean a restroom clean up a major undertaking and comes with liability if you don't do that people fall and health and safety issues so the gas station is more prune to that type of liability open to that liability so we're saying to a business as soon as you have you sell grocery anyone can use your bathroom i'm thinking if someone comes to me for advise what will i say how can you keep it clean in the department sites you $1,000 it will have a rippling

effect on the operation that is not so bicycle it is onerous and dangerous for the future of patrons thank you for take into account. >> thank you, commissioner. >> commissioner ortiz-cartagena and i was wondering is there any difficult i wasn't aware of the policy in san francisco rooms open in gas stations like what's the data how many complainant has there been and things of that nature no enforcement mechanism so richard was saying earlier they have not been complaints specific to this law because i think there's not been a way to enforce that so- and i mean even though sometimes your obviously legislation is brought up any

measure or feedback from the public is did an urgent issue. >> that's for the small businesses and i can only speak in district 6 you know they certainly don't want to bear the burden of having to deal with you know folks not able to use room facilities you know during - that are getting products or services at a time when a gas station is open and that when they wake up in the morning or small business in our neighborhood wakes up in the neighborhood as has to deal with the ramifications or side effects of someone that purchased doctrines or soda from a gas station and had to relieve themselves and not able to use the rooms and doing it in the proximity that will have to

clean up that. >> we can't put the one in his on the gas stations to provide the restrooms. >> i'm giving this as february from the small businesses in our neighborhood. >> the city provides for rooms in certain merchant correspond and supervisor kim has been a champion of public restrooms and we say allotment a lot of money for the pit stop program it's in the tenderloin and south of market and been expanded to other parts of city. >> i'm sorry to interrupt the second question what's the cost to taxpayer in getting this enforcement is there projects how much it will cost of the inspectors. >> i don't know if that - richard can speak to that as far as it is exciting inspectors we're not hire new people. >> we're going got to hire

additional inspectors we have inspectors to work combing time. >> some are over time. >> it will be combing time maybe an hour and a half to two hours at the most to do enforcement action at night we actually have inspectors to do other work like month ago that do task force and there's a moderny. >> it will be a cost of the inspectors to go out and do there for an inspection and write up the inspection and we don't done one so for an inspectors to go out there it will be an hour and two headquarters or hours they'll get comp time not over time.

>> okay. >> okay. so i'm going to okay-so we've dealt with some the fines and generally the position that did final side should be such they cover the cost of enforcement and that the departments that come here and present fines and fee structures need to justify the costs associated with administering those fees and so i'll recommend that rather than simply i mean 5 hundred and 750 and one thousand a or try there there is this kind of a fine and structure i suggest it comes down with a rationale behind it otherwise that's not right the city is not in the business to levy fines

that are capricious or unfounded. >> some of the discussions we have had with the office is how much is enough for people not to continue to do that. >> and so i would question the well - and i'm not a lawmaker that proposal is a punitive one versus an enforcement and an attempt to get people to on behalf of in a - whatever way you're trying to steer them towards await being the heavy handed government the entirely health we have other fines that go up to one thousand dollars a day this is necessarily exceeds sometimes the cost for the enforcement. >> well, i'll say. >> sorry to interrupt you. >> that is appropriate for some types of violations. >> it might be we went through

a lengthy hearing the did you want expressed the fee final side structure they've constructed specifically for the enforcement of the legislation they were proposing. >> right so that i can't support anything that if have - i mean, if you're going to make that punitive spell that out it costs urging us hundred and $49 so go out there we feel appropriate this is a punitive deterrent businesses have the right to know what they're up against justin just used to defer to the legislation and tell you i am or not going to give you the bathroom key and ready to it that 0 higher power if necessary again, we're not trying to be

obstructs i thought you guys are opening up the legislation for revision let's make sure we dot all the i's and cross the t'sed that wr7b8 current done other legislation by the changes and a half made you know didn't get reflected in all the elements the legislation some days it take someone to do some proof reading that's cool. >> commissioner l. riley you had. >> i'm sorry i don't see anyone on my radar screen. >> i was going to ask the same question in terms of how many complaint. >> what itself liability patrons if you don't have the information have those laws been in if the record could reflect for a long minded and now want to penalize the business owner for not allowing them to use the

bathroom we don't know it is a real problem. >> you know whether or not people are breaking the law. >> wloofr there are complaints enforcement and complaints are two different things you feel you does a have an enforcement we evaporate heard a bunch of complaint. >> we have a solution looking for a problem. >> uh-huh. >> thank you so much for all your feedback i'll relay this to supervisor kim. >> commissioners any other questions or comments. >> i have a - i have one question i don't want to dwell open this issue in the legislation at section 7924 d it size at the request of the did you want they've inspection the proposal why could the fire

department contact the department of public health give me a why is it here how does it - >> this particular section as far as i know is actually a part of the - >> okay. >> yes. you have to fix it. >> there are concerns. >> maybe not drafting. >> (multiple voices. >> this is old legislation and probably just something that was development a long time ago and now we're amending the health code to address the specific issue. >> maybe there's needs to be an amendment and okay. great

well, this horse might be dead so seeing no other questions or comments i'll communication any members of the public that wants to comment. >> good evening jim ldda am i out of order. >> in the time. >> chamber of commerce i guess i'm in the position of having been the deputy mayor the fine this legislation has nothing to do with to with public access to boardrooms this was motor i was access to bathrooms and the changing time from service stations a pure gas stations not convenient extorts and state laws that said you have to offer

air and water it was taken away unless you're a motorist getting gasoline it is free from subtly it had to do not with the general publics assess to the gas station but the motorist to the gas station that was what was drafted almost thirty years ago if i walk up to the shell station on frankly and turk this law was written in 1986 didn't require that station to open that bathroom nor a 7-eleven market have to open it's booment you have to be a patron of the service station the service station is a facility to service motor vehicles not motorists you have to serve the motor vehicle and be the motorist to have

rights to the bathroom this is a terrible burden on small businesses throughout the city to require those businesses to open rooms for the general public comment when i was a young city attorney there was boomdz in the garage open to the public and motorists and the general public comment they've not been opened in decades let the city open the bombards and public garages to the public then we worry about who the gas station owners ought to open their bathroom the if that definition is detail every time it is found not open to the public a 5 hundred a day fine obviously the law to think combortsdz if the city attorney's office and violations and i'll bet not one since 19986 when this law was impacted i

urge you to debate this legislation by the board of supervisors. >> thank you gym next please. thank you, commissioners my name is dave i'm a resident no and operate two gasoline stations i'm asking you to oppose this legislation and came here to do what you can to reduce those excess violations charges that are being addressed and lastly that we could from the health department tool take care of that citywide health problem for not having bathrooms for the visitor that come to the city of san francisco first of all here in san

francisco those amounts are extensive and pick from the air we had an act in san francisco that was $250 for the california law for discriminate against people a woman stated at the kev iron we did the post service for females that came in this gal tracked us from time after time and he then sued us four during the time against males for the ladies day we had to pay $10,000 so you don't see that because pates a violation those amounts of 5 hundred and 7 hundred and 50 and one thousand dollars are the is that you, and, secondly,

the cost you know service stations are unfairly being targeted as i mentioned commissioner we're discriminating against one class against many others and muni didn't allow their patrons to use the muni bathrooms that the bus drivers use why should we be tashltd those 80 stations left in san francisco ambassador taking care of the whole population and different people we get the transients and the street people and the world series slktsdz and the daily visitors and lastly i'm sorry lastly this is a citywide health problem a staggering proportion i know that people urinate in different areas we feel as property owners this should be addressed by the department of

public health they have a $2 billion budget and be able to use some of that money to have public toilets to address the needs of the people that come into the city. >> thank you for your comments when you hear the first chime you have thirty seconds left don't freak out good evening, commissioners i'm merriam sherry iron for the pacific northwest we thank you and as soon as the top s&p 500 to reduce safety risks we close the stores from 10:00 p.m. to 5:00 a.m. everyday the proposed amendment raise questions about the bathroom access to keep our convenience stores own

twenty-four hours or close our fuel services concurrently with the closing of the convenience stores this bring a certain hour and time no food and water no cigarettes and fuel so for cities like san francisco i don't think that should ever happy but certain locations twenty-four hours a day and those are location where i can go as a woman and 2 o'clock in the morning and based on our reports we have our logs in our stations company owned stations here the police the enforcement didn't come right away so our 6th and harrison is right beside the department of justice sometimes, it takes hour or two

hours one person mann our convenience store you have shoplifters and people that shot heroin we'll have to hire more than one person so let's will it be beneficial for us we'll have to hire security guard and security guards are also claiming in philippines they carry guns security guards here don't have a stick it is just difficult i think for us to implement this well, the tension is good to open public restrooms for the people but looked at the overhead effect if we are forced to open this up over and over forced to have those action we may have to shut down our operations and closings 7 stations that is like from 10:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m. those operations will be shut

down fueling and convenience stores so thank you. >> thank you. >> all right. thank you association i'm sure you're aware of the shell station on eight and harrison and the shell station on 6th and harrison as commissioner tour-sarkissian said what are the gas stations there are they there for gas are you saying oh, no. you have to keep the convenience store open that's the only assess into the bathroom your caught in the middle what do you do open up the store or not particularly late at night all the activities and problems start to arise

lady that poke before you try to get the police to come by they've be opening up the store and not buying anyone oh, yeah. i'm going to buy something but run into the bathroom some gas stations have the bathrooms on the outdoor at least you can handle if someone want to use it or get their driver's license but you can't do that this legislation is investmenty and 7-eleven market is not to provide the bathrooms if i said hey can i use your boom they said no and talk about the other bathrooms around 6th and corridor they utilities to have a toilet open the corner of 6th and mission not there 0 anymore because i saw it with my own

eyes people walked in there what were they doing in there they used the bathroom and it is gone not there canned we provide those things and i think supervisor jane kim did a great thing putting bathrooms our own the tenderloin there should be one not there it's the truth instead of going out and sending people to the chevron oh, just go to the chevron station hair open twenty-four hours this is unfair thank you. >> i'm sally johnson i think that seeing i had the idea that because that