attract people that have to be in a wheelchair and make it nice for them. it's part of what needs to be done. it's a civil right and i have done through and i have gone back to jobs after they have done -- they spent the money to get passed and they put it back in because they think they're taking up space they want to use. a lot of time at bars the area we lower it's a place for the waitress to come in and a service area and over and over again i insist before i sign the card that -- the isa is permanently installed so it can't be just something sitting there and remove it and use it for something else. i make sure that the areas that can be marked are marked and still sometimes they get changed back and it's a shame that you can't reach everyone as important as

it is but it falls upon building inspectors to understand what needs to be done and to educate and i think we will get there. we are getting better than it used to be in some regards as far as people understanding. i have seen isa on bathrooms that i would have a hard time able bodied to turn around in so having the sticker doesn't mean anything if you don't have the room, so that's where code enforcement comes in. that's where if you have a permit that's where the inspector comes in and it doesn't start at the final and gee this is off. we have to change it. it starts at the beginning and letting them know it's important and you're going to be looking at it and make sure it's done correctly. >> when i was working at the center for independent living we would often provide consultation and advice to small businesses that wanted to know how they

could improve access and fortunately sometimes it was after they had a complaint or legal action so one of the first things we would do is refer them to a cass and tell them you need to get professionals involved, but it was always startling to me how many business owners would just say they didn't understand that they had to provide access, and what that meant and they always blame you guys. >> right. >> they always say "but i passed inspection". >> [inaudible] >> i would simply add that accessibility is just become more prominent as a concept really as a result of ada. i guess i came up from a different world. 1958 when my younger sister was born with cerebral palsy and go through special

education, having her friends of being one disability sort of another i just became more conscious of it and i think the hard part that we all get is representatives of the construction industry of the building officials department and the public that didn't have the opportunity to visualize and be able to explain we have grab bars for this reason because remember this is how it gets used, and so many building officials maybe put on the spot because they don't know a certain rational for why something is there and i would just encourage that it makes sense for everybody to understand the purpose of what we're doing. it's not just to meet a code. there is some function that it really does help. >> [inaudible] >> yeah, i have a quick story

here. a couple years back we were working with a business owner for a permit process for a candy store in the mountains and kicking and screaming about the requirements all the way but eventually complied and had a compliant business and i get this cold call three months later after the building was final and the business owner was apologizing to me and they called the board of supervisors and why are you making -- we went through the whole thing as gary alluded to and i asked why and having an accessible business was the best thing that happened and i asked him to explain that statement and with the tour buses going to yosemite he had a reputation of being a compliant business and all the thank you's he got from the public and that experience lead him to vol tarly update other businesses in the state. >> you should put him on a

poster or something. >> i was shocked. >> i need to know where the candy store is and i go to so semmity and sometimes driving up there and it's the reality. can i get in there? can i go to the bathroom? can i shop? yeah, i would like to know where the candy store is. i will tell my friends. >> just to follow up on the question basically my career was moat vaitd by civil rights and the first architect recruited by a vista in the 60's and in the early 90's i went to l.a. and looking for a job and we had dinner in a couple's house who had been involved in protests where they blocked traffic with their wheelchairs to get attention and so on, and all of a sudden it clicked in my head

this is the same thing as civil rights marchers blocking traffic and things like that and i think that's the thing for the public there isn't that connection this is a civil right. it's just an obligation and until it gets to that point where people understand it really is it makes it a little harder. >> i don't know they will see the day when universal is the standard but that would eliminate a lot of that and we design for anybody. anybody else want to add any thoughts? >> one quick one. i've had very few mentors in my life but one significant mentor, tim sullivan and a former building official for the city of sacramento and tim at one point before i knew him put all of his inspectors in wheelchairs and sent them through old sacramento

which is notoriously unaccessible, and that type of awareness is so important. that is one of our tasks as building officials and as regulators to increase that awareness, and that's part of my overview as an architect as well, but we don't just read black and white. we do a lot of interpretation and we have clients, and as building officials we have all the citizens of our jurisdiction and those who come into it, so it is a very, very important facet of what we do. >> for anyone on the panel how do you educate small business owners or contractors talk

about sort of the range of access? because i think oftentimes when speaking about the built in environment and barrier removal and people envision with disabilities but we should design for code enforcement and a range of disabilities, and visual impairment and all sorts of things so if you could talk about some of the lessor understood aspects of accessible spaces. >> one of the big problems that i've had with architects is -- well, there's two, the line on the stairs. they want to make it go away and i said you can't. the whole idea is so you can see it. >> with individuals with low vision. >> low vision. they try to do something that meets it and looks like it fits there and i said that's not the point. it's supposed to stand out so they can see it. i had a couple of

carpets and it's not contrasting enough and they said there is no standard and there is a standard but it's not codifyd and that and also trying to hide if you will, it is truncated dorms, not wanting to put that and it's one that everybody likes to say something about because it's hard for a person in a walker to get over the truncated dorms but different for someone with a different disability so people complain about it all the time and try to leave it out and a lot of architects try to hide it. it's a warning. you don't want to hide the warning. you are not supposed to camouflage it and working with people on that and in the current building we're in it's very odd how they have done this step and using -- trying to use groves to make it

instead of using lining that makes it very hard especially in the evening and night time with the type of construction. it's a very -- looks neat but it's not very functional with a set of stairs and the fact they're using lines -- groves instead of the warning line it makes it very hard and yet a lot of architects still think that is okay. >> [inaudible] >> one of the -- this is commissioner dolim and the textbook and the examples that we all have in our career come up and i was trying to explain to a client with a strip mall and why they needed identification for the suites. we were arguing and no other

way to see it and we're in a vacant suite. i can't afford this and i have to go to the bankruptcy judge and get money because the property was in foreclosure and this isn't going to help anybody and right then the door was swung open and a lady that was blind and threw the door open and said "is this the hair salon and i am late and is this suite 204" and like i prompted that but unfortunately it was really a situation -- >> you were talking about the signage. >> we were talking about the tactile signage that would identify the suites in a long door to different suites and low and behold the argument ended with the client and the tactile sign showed up the next week. >> that's exactly what you have to do and your example

came in the door so that was easy for you. i have given the example and they have some element that is not accessible and door knobs. i say would you hire a veteran. of course i would hire a veteran. would you hire a veteran that had an ied that blew up and they need a lever hardware to access the suite. yes, i would hire that person. okay go get the levers and get rid of the door knobs and it's not just about that but hearing, vision anything that is not an element that was the way that i look perhaps or something you know, -- >> you frame it in a way that person might understand. >> and sometimes you have to be rather abrupt with it but it goes back to your civil right.

would you hire a veteran? of course. would you hire a person in a wheelchair? no. you couldn't, really? >> that's a different conversation. >> you would be in violation of the law then. you're good with that? yeah so there's a lot of that too so it's all about the visual. how do you get them to understand why the code is written that way. >> i find that in my role at sutter health so my job is to -- i basically see myself as the quarterback for disability compliance program so there's the policies and procedures but also the barrier removal, so i am kind of the quarterback for the team of planners and architects and everybody that's involved with building care sites or doing barrier removals and reporting on the progress there, and have two things that come up sometimes. either that

wasn't called out in the survey, and yet we have to do it to meet code, but the other thing that we're working on there is it's sort of -- you know, what i would like to see is have people think maybe not strictly to the code. some people are so focused well this wasn't specifically spelled out but the ada still requires to think about how a space is used and who is going to be using it and designing it in the way that people have equal access so i am wondering if anybody would talk about -- when you talked about doing outreach to architects and contractors and working with people that are the design end or building end do you ever have those conversations when there might be a gray area where the code isn't very specific about something but we know that people need to provide the access?

>> that's when i ask people what was the intent of this and especially in existing or historical buildings what are ways to get that at intent? because the code is built for new buildings so if you can get people to first of all take a deep breath and tap their problem solving genes and ask them to think about what do they really intend here? sometimes you can come out with other ways to get at the problem. >> that's exactly what we do in my work and i think the team is really good at thinking about how a space is being used or what the intent was so thank you. is there any other questions from the public? please identify yourself. >> my name is [inaudible]. i work for bart in transportation which is slightly different from building, and i to follow up on

your question i believe most cities have disability community, mayor's commission on disability. are you guys familiar? the building officials interact with the people with disability, mayor's commission on disability in your area? because some of the issues just like the question is that a lot of times the users actually in most cases can help you out, educate you. architects and people that are not familiar with the user needs in the environment, so an interaction and outreach to the community. do you ever suggest to the architects have you reviewed this with the disability community for example? if it's a big project that will impact a lot of users. >> this is gary lehman. in

orvil sometimes we have some historic and older buildings and they go in and do alterations and repairs, and so this is when e equivalent presentation is provided and northern california independent living service that i have a very close relation with as well as with my cass reviews that i have them assist me in review my review the process or what's being brought forward and provide their input what would be better used or better approach to them if they felt, so yes, i do use it and they have changed their name just recently but the northern california independent living services which is an advocacy

group of different disabilities, not just one, and so i take advice from them and i also have them review and approve along with my approval, so this is one approach that i use to overcome politics shall i say sometimes. >> it's a great question. randy good one. one of the many hats i wear i have been trying to guide a group in the city with our transition plan updating our transition plan which is a living document for a city showing that we are removing barriers and our self evaluation, and i have to explain that not only the importance of this and all of the facets of it. it's vast to

our council groups who represent different disabilities and have different agendas and again it's a task that often falls to a building official and it's an important facet of the community. i have learned a lot through the transition plan process and the different community members that we have dealt with. we still have a long ways to go, but yeah. >> i think we're about ready to wrap things up unless anyone has closing thoughts or impressions you would like to share. i will yield to angela executive director of the ccda.

>> we at the commission truly am so pleased of each and every one of you share and enlighten us today, and i know -- well, i hope that this will not be our last time together with all of you. this has been truly a tremendous effort to have this knowledge base together in one house. the energy is fascinating but i do know that it does not stop here as said over and over again. this is a living document and it's going to require our commission to be on top of it to help you to continue to do your work and aid you and if it's not maintained it's not an aid and that's our job to make sure the document is current. however however proud

of it we want your feedback and our desire is after a while come back and respond and get an open forum discussion from your jurisdictions and we look forward to hearing from you and we quite frankly. to hear any negative thoughts of things or opportunities. we believe that that's the best way to grow and learn from the document so whatever you have to share we look forward to the feedback and we hope as you stated that you have already done share with your colleagues. we like and that's why we ask those on the phone and listening to see that this is something that we want to hear back that it's not a negative thing. that we enjoy and look forward to hearing from you. our website was given to you earlier. ccda. c adot gov and a website and contact information and our email that you may email or contact us

directly. we do want to pause. we notice that in our introductions and recognitions commissioner dolim wanted to mention a couple of recognitions and we want to make sure we do that. >> thank you angela. i am afraid in handling the papers and thanking the members of the check let list sub-committee and i will omitted a name and edia o'neal and i failed to into that in the meeting and i know she may not be on the phone or here and i deeply apologize because -- and i am being prompted that -- nia mar vely was on the list but i may have skipped over her as well at the building

standards commission so my deep and sincere apologies. at the end wrapping up my part and representing the california commission on disability access. we are a small commission -- please, it sounds like a big name but we need feedback. we need participants. we welcome each one of you to get on the phone during the meetings or drop us a note but we would love participation from people on the phone, people in person, or getting in contact with one of the commissioners or angela and this input is very vital to help us be meaningful as a commission going forward and to help everybody in california attain this goal of accessibility for all so thank you very much for my time today. >> thank you. thank you. well, with that note we're going to transition this meeting to another important aspect and

responsibility our job at the commission, educational tool we're providing for the building inspectors but we know our consumers are needing and required to have some educational process assist them and this is something that we have been working on and developing, a questionnaire, what we call an informational tool that we would like to provide to our business community, and we want to do is actually share a little bit of that questionnaire so what we do now is transition the dais with a round of applause to our panel and again thank you all for participating. [applause] we would like to ask at this point and a special recognition

to yomi and lead the panel discussion. [applause] she is an awesome person and she does many brilliant things for the north bay area and we are thankful she came to lead the panel discussion. as we're bringing forward up to the dais we're asking that regina dick-endrizzi the executive director of the san francisco office of small business join us here on the dais as well as jesse torres deputy director of small business advocate for the governor's office of business and economic development, go-biz . as we transition we

recognize that to create this educational tool for our consumers we need to know what you're interested in, so we created a questionnaire and i'm just going to read a little bit as we transition because we want to know what type of financial incentives would be appealing to bring your business into compliance for california accessibility regulations? so we know and this is where we will begin in the discussion today because we have two --

what we call heavy hitters in this particular area of discussion, to answer those questions. we also want to know have you used a cass within your business and if you have used a cass what were some of the challenges? if you haven't used a cass why not? couldn't you not find one? did you know about the services? so we're going to ask those questions in our informational tool. the part of if you have used a cass we would like to know exactly your level of using the report? there is an assumption once you get a cass report done it's over that you answered the question and know how to move forward but a possibility that some are not equipped to know what to do once they get the report so we want to know is there more

information or instructions to assist you in using the report? and then we also have in our questionnaire -- basically what are some of the things that you need? we have come up with some ideas. we need to hear from you as small businesses so we have this opportunity as we're setting aside as we go through the outreach opportunities across california and for small businesses and this informational tool is on the website as well as we're delivering to e-blast if you're on the list and we ask to you respond and we will follow up on the questionnaire and we want to know and we have done as you have seen a tremendous effort for the checklist for the final building inspectors but we know there is more to go in regards to the consumers to use to help

them become compliant so again as we stated we know that typically -- we already heard that financial incentives would be the possible answer for many small businesses so that's why we brought today two knowledgeable representatives that can share and beginning regina. she's going to present -- >> [inaudible] >> yeah, so regina will be sharing with you and then jesse torres from the governor's office will follow. >> so regina dick-endrizzi director of the office of small business and it's an honor to be before you today and thank you angela. i just realized today you weren't the director so i

apologized that i didn't know that ahead of time and congratulations so i wanted to share with you programs that our office and the city have put together out of first initiating with the response to businesses who were receiving lawsuits and not understanding why and how this was taking place, and then two as we have been really engaging in on this process really learning some interesting things about what we as city government can be doing to improve the process. so just very quickly in 2009 our office of small business and the northeast federal credit union which we will learn about later we conducted over 66 presentations including information on general workshops, campaigns by district and in specific languages. in 2011 we launched a comprehensive