to the panelists so i'm going to just throw out an open ended question and whoever would like to lean in and answer the question feel free so kind of two fold. what are some of the challenges you face to improve compliance with accessibility regulations, and how might this new checklist might improve your efforts? go ahead randy. >> sure. i am in a small jurisdiction -- first of all i want to thank the commission for inviting me. i'm humbled and i am surrounded by people who are much more knowledgeable than i am and i hope i can share something today, and one of those things is my appreciation for the checklist. in my

jurisdiction we are in a building boom as in many jurisdictions and we see high rise buildings coming into a small jurisdiction that hasn't had them before and we had one 19 story building at completion -- it's a classic story it had accessibility problems and the only way to deal with them was really to go in structurally change some things, so this list as simple as it is would have helped dra -- dramatically and it was before i was building official and i heard the nightmares and this will assist the developers and the clients it will also assist

those behind the counter, the regulators and i talked to my inspectors and they are graciously thankful, and they do use the list now. the one thing that they -- one of my inspectors one of his favorite comments is "make it look like the picture" and his comment was "more pictures." the fact that it's a word document and i will take that back to him makes it

>> we do perform numerous over the counter permits to check for accessibility. we review the plans the same but most of it is accessibility comes with commercial. however, when they come for -- say they're putting in a ramp for barrier removal because i have a process in the city of orvil to come in and pull permits for that that i will actually provide them with the information and handouts that are specifically out of the code to be able to do that to assist them in the process, so that's how i assist with over the counter permits if it comes to that with commercial. >> thank you. can somebody just talk about how this checklist might help small businesses better comply with

california's accessibility regulations? >> this is steve dolim and as part of that checklist committee i would have to say remember this was a list geared to trained building federals who d -- officials and have the code at their fingertips and more knowledgeable with the code than the common business person so i would say this is not geared to the common business person but to a practicing business official and may encourage that they need counsel as a small business before embarking on their changes. >> yes? >> i think the value for a small business person is that it makes a list in simple terms of the kinds of things they need to be asking about for their store like doors and series. what

does it mean? and it allows them to ask the question and if they're energetic they can see the code online but allows them to ask the builder or architect what does it mean and introduces them to the code opposed to going to a code document they would be lost. >> thank you. so just wondering how your departments have engaged california as access specialists in plan review and site inspections? has this helped to improve accessibility compliance? >> gary. i will jump into that. i unfortunately have not successfully passed the test yet. i have taken it a few times. i have come close, but that knowledge and cass

specialists that we work with we often refer businesses -- it's a good segue from the prior question because we have small business -- many small businesses that say we've been asked to comply and what do we do? so we refer them typically to a certified access specialists. we help them as well. we have certified access specialists who work with us through a local consultant and it's a program that not only has served the disabled community it's helped small business i think significantly. >> anyone on the panel who is a certified accessibility specialists want to talk a little bit how you work with small businesss if that's at all part of your scope?

>> this is gary lehman. i'm a certified access specialist, and i am also the chief building official for the city of orvil so what i do in assisting the small businesses in our community is i reach out to them through the chamber of commerces. with the chamber of commerces what i provide to them -- once again as i indicated proactive is the ability that i will for free of charge because i am community service go to their site in their business and walk the business. have them have a list and i will indicate to them what kind of barriers they may have within their business and they put that list together. this is then what generates the barrier removal of the barriers in a kind way.

what it has done is open the businesses to come in freely and feel comfortable coming into the building department and be comfortable with myself coming into their business because i'm not going in there saying "you have to do this" and knocking at the doors to shut them down. i'm going in and saying ", well here's the things that i see and when you have the money and the time to get them done that you can then -- you can come and get a permit for one at a time. you don't have to do it all at one time, and this has been very helpful with our community, and at the same time when they come into the building department i have the handouts ready for them and a lot of time is providing a ramp or providing accessible counter or providing accessible seating, simple stuff they

weren't aware of. a lot of times it's move the planner out from the strike side of the door so individuals can use the door so sometimes it's not even requiring a architecture barrier to be fixed but just to be relocateed. >> and i bet they're relieved when you give the short punch list of the easily removable barriers the low hanging fruit items and they don't have to spend a lot of money to do that. >> they are. once again we have advocates in our city like many cities. some speak louder than others, but the advocates also feel comfortable with the process that goes, and they see that businesses are acting in a positive way and a positive approach and this helps them sleep at night better because they don't have this overwhelming shadow over their

head not knowing what needs to be done but not always able to afford a cass to come in and give a full survey. >> i have a question for either jeff or liz about code enforcement in your jurisdictions, so how are accessibility regs currently enforced in say los angeles, a very big city or pacifica which is a little bit smaller? >> well as we look at the commercial buildings and that's really where we need to concentrate we have a group of guys. i have 85 to 89 commercial building inspectors that work the 465 square miles of the city of los angeles and they're responsible to make sure that the accessibility is done properly, and as the training officer -- excuse me, one of my

jobs is make sure they're updated on the code, and last week when i got the finalized version of the checklist and quite frankly our -- the city of l.a.'s guru had a hand in that. in fact she asked me to review it months back and i made a few suggestions and i saw that they were on there. i don't know if they were on there or before or not but the nice thing about the code is it doesn't have the pictures. the pictures takes up too much room and i gave it to the guys and they were appreciative. one of the reasons they were appreciative of it a year after the new code came out they're not comfortable finding it and 11b was a total rewrite and

most of the inspectors in our city are -- let's just say we're not spring chickens anymore. we came in after working several years as contractors or what have you and our average age is in the higher 50's and learning a new code as big of a change it was was not easy for them and this is nice. this gives the code section. they know the measurements. they don't need it written down or pictures and scope has changed and they get that but for the most part the numbers haven't changed that greatly. there's a little bit -- and the thing is in the last three code cycles between 2010cbc to the 2015 change we changed the placement of the toilet three times really, so

the numbers are a list are not always going to be there, and so we actually like the fact that it's condensed. i was trying to get it -- if i could have gotten it in one page it would have better form but you can't and you look at the ada ones and there is a four part one that i looked at yesterday, 88 pages. we already have a code book. we have pictures in the code book. but what we need is something to go through. we have a plan and it's the set of plans that we can go off of as well so just a reminder when we should be looking at things. some of the big things -- we get the big things and the toilets where they're supposed to be and when i check the fas set a certain size and we need the reminders that okay are we looking at a

doctor's office? do i need to relook at the parking? if someone wants to change something okay is it allowed under the new code and gives a checklist to make sure we're not running -- because the plans aren't always the way the plans are when they get built so this has been well received. if nothing else it helps them to go to answer the questions and gives the sections they need to go to and one of the things that the guys really like. it's only been a week. i haven't gotten a lot of feedback with. if it's five pages they're not going to use it. two pages yeah we can use it. >> thank you. how liz how does the enforcement play out in pacifica? >> it's permit based that it's in most of the jurisdictions on the peninsula and the checklist will be used in our jurisdiction and many like it more as a

reminder so we don't have what we refer to as the late hit, so the construction project is done and guess what the parking is in the wrong place or the ramp is missed or no handrail or whatever, so we can use it in the field just to go down and as we are there and read down and before the inspection and okay what am i looking at today? okay. i have it in my head and now you go out in the field and look at the plan and i have it all done and it was easy because we have the check list now and we will use it and it will benefit the contractor because we're not going to be out there as long. we don't need to be because we have a checklist and go boom, boom, boom and go around the site and do it one time so it's beneficial for the code and everyone's time. >> thank you. so randy can

you talk about generally some of the challenges you face in access compliance and if there is anything that this particular commission could do more for people that are in your industry? >> it's a great question. thank you. well, i think many of the challenges have been shared by other panelists, and and i share them. cass -- small business. we talked about that a little bit. they in particular i think the cass legislation and rule making is centered around the small business person and a list like this and i know one size fits all. it has to be pretty generic but something that is focused for small business. i

spend as others do a significant amount of time helping small business with accessibility and compliance, and walking them through that. that's a big part of my job, and a very important part of my job. if we can assist small business in a more robust way i think that would be significant. >> [inaudible] >> okay. i would like to thank ccda for having us here today. i can tell you as a board member and [inaudible] i would like to thank ccda for a job well done. this checklist had been helpful. i will bring it back to my jurisdiction and have builders call us out for a

consultant and encourage that and don't about and randy alluded to as well and we don't want the cold shower at the end of the job and by the way you need to tear this out and this isn't correct so with that being said i believe the checklist will be very useful and spoke to before it's a living document so we will make changes along the way and do that and good document. >> are the cass changes -- (low audio) and during final inspection? >> yes i found that to be true. >> yes. i agree. >> i don't know if there are any questions that have come in from over the phone? i also

invite members of the public to ask questions if they have them. yes, could you come to the front? thank you. if you can identify yourself, speak into the mic. thank you. >> dominick octave i don't with the city of delano. we know a common complaint from businesses is my business was inspected by a inspector in and passed and final and how do you think the checklist will help when a business is not compliant and how will it benefit inspectors in the field? >> i can take part of that. the one good thing the list is brief and for the time that inspectors have to check code

items and they have all of these things and accessibility is another one to be checked and what is grated it's a tickler checklist and what it's intended to be and the code is on the side if you need to dig deeper and we're talking about the dialogue with the contractor, the developer, even the owner, and let's have that discussion up front about this, so that's the benefit i see. >> and to piggyback on that a little most inspectors have the code book in some version with them on the job site. a lot of them have it on an ipad or tablet. some still have books in the car but when the contractor wants to know how to fix a problem they want the number how far does my toilet have to be from the wall? and if you couldn't remember that there is the check list and the

code book and bring it up on the ipad, show it to the builder and do it, great done and move on and it's an immediate answer and that's what they want. >> this commissioner dolim and i will expand it slightly and we have it as a guide when removing barriers or a permit active? front of us -- in front of us but what i got out of the question it's a relatively small percentage of the built environment out there today is currently under permit or active in the permitting process. there's a whole another facet -- probably the majority of our buildings are existing buildings that they're not in the process of any permit work. they might not have the benefit of this but from the public's viewpoint there seems to be that thought

that well it was built 15 or 20 or 25 years ago it passed all of the inspections, so i'm grandfathered. have we ever heard that? >> all the time. >> does anybody want to talk about that because it's really a conundrum? this grandfathering thing, any panelists? >> well there is a certain amount of truth to that because if it was built by the accessibility code during that time and enjoys a safe harbor and unless it's a item new in the code they can't use it, but it's one of the things about the checklist you maybe looking at a building where they put the switches at 54 inches above the floor and if you use the checklist it says 48 so explaining that difference to people is important.

>> as a practicing cass arnie do you find that to be easy to explain to your clientele in your experience that they have a safe harbor issue or possibly it was built wrong and doesn't qualify for the safe harbor? >> well at this point the first thing i ask them is do you want to meet current code that's in place right now or do you want me to look at what was okay back then and is okay now? and? people don't care -- and some people don't care whether it's grandfathered in and safe harbor and others look at current code and make changes they didn't necessarily have to do. >> thank you. anybody else have something they want to add? >> this is

gary again. the checklist to answer the question it's helped with the construction industry is in my jurisdiction it helped significantly with a project where because up in the front phase which was put in that you look at the stages of construction and you have to look at the plans and the complete plans of what the finished product was so an example was the electricians put in the electrical outlets at 15 inches to the bottom of the boxes. it says in the code at the rough floor stage, and when they looked at the check list to look at the plans what was going to be at the finished product included an inch and a half light concrete over the floor because it was multi-story so

for fire resistance rating and then bring the finished floor up and the electrical outlets would have been non compliant at that stage. catching it at the rough electrical stage is a big catch. actually the electrician that installed them was upset but his boss that owned the business was very happy because if it would have had to be done at final he indicated it would have put him out of business but also i'm in a small jurisdiction and in a small jurisdiction we all know about politics and so sometimes when politics come in play it affects when you're going to look at $100,000 fix and they know someone a little over your head, and there's other things that roll down so this checklist at that point and

time made a big significant catch, and saved a whole lot of process. >> i think also a value of the checklist is sharing this with the contractor before they start work. i like to -- like preconstruction meetings share with the contractor this is what i am going to use to measure these things. i'm going to use a 24-inch smart level and not 8-foot small level to check things and this is what i will use to check door pressure so they know at the beginning and this is from the inspector telling them this is what i will look at so think about it before you hit the first nail and sharing it with the contractor before work and contact the inspector before you start and architects we put it on the

drawings for contractors as possible and wait a minute -- have we dealt with that -- >> the front end work. >> thinking about what is coming. this is what the inspector is going to look for so i should look for it too before i start. >> how much education are you doing in your jurisdictions or communities both with contractors, architects and just with the community, your end users -- i consider myself one of your end users. what type of outreach or community education are you involved in and i would like to ask that of everyone. >> in san francisco inspector richard halloran put together a very ambitious program which he has been almost every week a lunch seminar on a different topic and brings those in the private sector to come and talk

about things. i'm going to be doing something in august on historical buildings and? -- and some people have taught them so that education has been very helpful. >> as a training officer with the city of l.a. we have done outreach on several different topics. we have taken -- we have done three classes on cass training. i do a lot with the inspectors but we're also doing outreach with architects and things like that want to come in as well and they have been very appreciative and in fact asked for more than i can actually accommodate, but i've also trained the code enforcement because we have another issue that we have buildings that are not having permits. sometimes

things don't meet what need to be done not because they were done 20 years ago because things have changed without permits and things like that, so they need to be brought in line with that as well. many of our code enforcement officers are not trained in the chapter 11 b because they're primarily residential inspectors, and so i have had to cross that barrier too because we typically only trained our commercial guys in it, and so we were missing a lot of things that could have been caught and so we're starting to train on there for two reasons. one, we're also seeing one of the things we hadn't taken into consideration because we have residential -- one and two family dwellings and commercial inspectors who are different, but we got a lot of model homes that are set up, and they go

through the plan check and there is parking. there is accessible routes. there are -- they have to have accessible bathrooms in these model homes or provide them elsewhere and they weren't getting picked up by the residential inspectors, so the last couple of months i had to go through this with them and explain to them yes you're responsible for that. they said we don't look at sidewalks and when comes to single family dwellings they're right whether it's a walk way or what have you but when it comes to needing accessibility because they plan to use it as a live /work -- in this case a model home, things like that they need to make the catch so they're going to get those that are needing it, those in code enforcement and those