>> good afternoon, everyone.

ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the monday, july 27, 2015, regular meeting of the san francisco ethics commission i say regular meeting that was essentially contemplated that this meeting would be cancelled because we school one in july or august but because of the need to have public button the two items on tonight's agenda we decided to go forward tonight i will first call roll commissioner hur commissioner keane councilmember gloria's and the executive director have been excluded from tonight meeting i'll tell you that some the gentleman didn't have to abstain

himself we'll switch the agenda items number 4 will be taken up first that is the ballot measure statement and then we'll take up the agenda item number 3 that deals with the recruitment profile so agenda 2 public items appearing or not appearing on tonight agenda. >> good afternoon, commissioners i'm charley for the record you have my e-mail where i suggested respectfully you might consider amending our bylaws for the purpose of having a consistent provision in the law for filings

to proceed all legislative and other important types of things which you do including placing initiatives on the ballot to the public has a clear idea why this particular measure or act was taken with that said you can do easily by a majority vote that applies to all the areas in the administration something you do anyway as a matter of progress it would be a useful thing and signal to the public this is a matter of the bylaws and this is standard so the public will have that assurance that is a good faith gesture a that's my public comment. >> any other public comment? turning to item number 4 discussion and possible action on future commission activities

relating to the expenditure lobbyist ballot measure you've all received i think hopefully, the amended copy of the proposed ballot measure which was somewhat changed from the original that was i think sent out when this agenda was sent out and in any case we also have received a memorandum from the city attorney's office southerner the restrictions that have to govern any ballot measure language we place on the ballot on the yes - in connection with the proposed legislation and i will let city attorney

andrew's just summarize i think the copies of memorandum he escalated to the commission are available to the public so you that will understand and get a little bit of combines as to sort of the restrictions and limitations what we can and can't say in the ballot measure establishment. >> deputy city attorney andre i'll try to be brief my apologies to the you been members of the public but i'll be brief certainly the other commission has submitted a bloo measure for the ballot to weigh in with the measure that was discussed in the memo the first we're discussing tonight the ballot argument from the

decision voter apartment the second the commission ballot hearings that is taking place that will be considered by the committee on friday morning and a third, the more likely as we post the november election day mercedes benz e members of the ethics commission having may have to speak to groups in the newspapers editorial boards, members of political neighborhood clubs and the democratic republican party they may simply invited people to talk about the measures as a general matter our advise to the notification and really all city officials and staff who are involved in the ballet measures heading to the voters for

consideration there certainly can provide background motion o information, context and explain why the measure is appropriate and a good idea, what the measure is intended to address that while governments can provide or play the information role with the ballot measures before the voters they can't cross the line into more explicit mini or related activity like sending out glossy mailers you know disturbing as that are sort of normal such campaigns and certainly tonight's ballot is one piece for the information to the voters and certainly i'm happy to help the commission go 0 through

tonight's argument and the measures. >> thank you with that, i'll open up the decision to the commissioners as to the draft that you have as far as the ballot measures before us tonight commissioner keane yeah. i need just a little bit of guidance in regards to what we can and can't is as commissioners in regard to the ballot and the whole election process and reporting process if for example, we're contact by a reporter and the reporter asked what is the measure are we allowed to give our vrpdz of what the measure is. >> yes. you can certainly respond to requests what is the measure trying to he'd and do

any factual information about the bloltd is provisional. >> i'm not in trouble u trouble i pointed with a chronicle reporter a couple of hours ago. >> i'm happy to plead for you. >> in terms of estate what is in it what the factual background even how about what the debate was we had and in terms of reporting rather than campaigning or arguing in favor of something giving history how people appear to look at it while it was being debated i ask this mainly i've done a fair enough of tv and radio commentary on legal matters and

i don't know where i should keep my mouth shut are get in trouble as a ethics commissioner what i can and can't do in regards to history i think so and not certainly campaign or nothing like that it wouldn't be appropriate for any of us or engage in matter of debate either pros and cons what about talking about history and talking about various things like the state of the law in the country in terms of citizens united and what is left to us in terms of the disclosure of lobbyists as opposed to any prohibitions a payment of money i ask that also with my

constitutional law professors in terms of talking to members of the public about that - can you give me some guidance i don't want to get in trouble. >> a couple of are 24rer8d matters we'll touch on one of the things we recommended in the memo is in response to those inquires you'll get from the public more and more often as the november election certainly one thing the commission wanted to establish a protocol that is up to the commissioners segregation e discretion you can think about second in terms of what you can and cannot do say for some guidance on the third page of the memo we provided 3 bullet points to provide factual information should void campaign rhetoric or slogans and not

explicitly you're going to vote one way or the other certainly another information that don't violate any of the rules 2, 3, 4 referencing what the debate was i think certainly mentioning what the issues were before the commission certainly some decisions the commission had to make with seismic provisions of the measure you certainly can relate the pros and cons the different sides of the commission debates that is perfectly fine with the context that is harder to define i guess it depends on what you mean by sort of the larger debate and certainly it you want to start talking about citizens nieptd it are more in campaign restrictions as a supreme court

ruling about expenditures and not about lobbying now this is not in the case people but united and the measure the commissioners put forward to the voters. >> okay. he think i'm okay. >> certainly as we go forward i'm happy to talk with the commission or any individual members what is or not appropriate mentally can't be crossing the line. >> i mentioned citizens united because of the importance of disclosure and transparency are the only things that seem to be left of governmental regulations relating to spending money by lobbyists after citizens united and so since we don't have any kind of reigning in on the vast

amounts of money in public forum disclosure would appear to be something that would the public would want to shaken or look at with a color eye in terms of protection of the public in terms of what is going on out here in the location process. >> yeah certainly, certainly that point is well-taken obviously the united disclosures is important in terms of campaign financing and oversight i guess the one argument you may in invoking citizens united is a bogey man in terms of the issues we deal with with and didn't directly relate to the lobbyists

issues. >> okay. thank you mr. chair. >> any other commissioner comments. >> thank you commissioner renne in light of the memo from the city attorney i have a proposal we use the finding that are currently in the existing ordinance and slightly modify them to serve as the ballots description i think that is as factually complete as proposed i think it is a little bit left argumentative and given the city attorney's advise about trying to be as objective as possible in the proposal 0 i think this

pretty much meets the requirement the finding i'm referring to in section one on page one and with slight modifications let me premise it some of the proposal came from here in any event and i think with anywhere modifications we can accomplish the purpose as and so forth in for the voter information passed. >> the minor modifications i would make relate to the last - the start of the last sentence an page one the city requires the disclosure and change that to this ballot measure seeks to protect again, just making it so it is-

discussing what the ballot measure would do rather than what it as already done similarly in section c of the second line after the com ma in decision making i would add the ballot measure soaks to explores rather than the inaction of the ballot. >> what page. >> on page 2 and that's line 15. >> and what change would you make there. >> i would make the change after the phrase decision making a correct. >> i would put the ballot measure seeks to rather than the ballet measures would do. >> and then finally in d although this is a picture i

would change on line 21 this ordinance to this ballot measure. >> the only other substantive difference may not the only one but perhaps the most significance the dollar amount is not currently included in the findings i'll have no objections to including that but otherwise i think this accurately and relatively and i am partially provides the message we need so what you would suggest is that we adopt as a ballot measure just the language of the finding start on line 22 on page one through line 25 on page 2 the -

changes that you suggested. >> correct. >> any comments? >> commissioner renne if i might add past the city attorney or staff if they have thoughts on that. >> yeah. one thing i'm trying to check quickly the wording if you could give me a second. >> it is roughly the same length may nobnotenotott be not

>> yeah. i don't see is word limit it seems intoxicate roughly the is that you. >> you want to make a motion? yes i'll move we adopt the finding starting on page one line 22 through page 2 line 25 the amendments i've proposed as the ballot measure proposal >> second. >> any public discussion. >> hello commissioners. i'm larry bush the one thing not in

the finding commissioner hur mentioned this proposal reverses something that is the law we refer on page 2 to in many years lobbyists have been required to file but it didn't it is a is that that measure is intended to restore sdoeshz that had existed in san francisco it is important for the public to see a restoration didn't - thank you. >> i'm bob plant hold a couple of points first on words when i heard from commissioner hur that is the proposal that is a different matt haney than

proposed ballot argument i could take this to mean a substitute legislation i ask you to clarify he didn't say proposed ballot argument i'm brought to my attention so, now i wanted to get 0 on to the questions of presentation about responding and when i was an officer i'll jump to the end after the protection was over and i the a major interview in the city attorney's office dennis herrera passed by me and said congratulations bob you didn't fill in the blank up on the interview and the presentations those restriction are at needing to be burdensome i ask you to despite someone on friday morning i do and stood

figurative to answer questions about matt haney and i'm urging the commission those staff are knowledgeable and the attorney you're the folks that will interpret the meaning and answer any questions i answered questions about the meaning of the words of ballot simplification i think it would be helpful as to presentations or responses to invitations to speak here again you're going to find if you do both groups are disappeared one veterans groups do you want us to support it they couldn't accept the fact to sacrifice neutral i said what is the effects if it were implemented and changes in various ways i'll mention you'll get people that want to push do

you like it they ask all kinds of probing questions to ask you to step over the line i hope you folks speak up this absent ever anybody makes the voters of that group question well, why is it posh if you're not there to represent silence can indicate lack of concern, lack of commitment attending those groups to comment from a neutral stand out informs the voters connection to benefits thank you. >> thank you. >> gloria killian good evening, commissioners mark solomon if memory serves from 2000 the limit is 3 hundred words for the argument and 50 for rebuttal but it's been more than 10 years i want to start with mr. bush's

comments the passed law to what mr. plant hold said whatever the commission didn't put this on the ballot it speaks for itself where whether or not people should vote for it thank you very much. >> charlie i would repeat i think what everyone else is saying your sanctuary as a representative before broupz groups to refer to the history and jen us of this section of law coming back to the voters restoration so i think that answers a lot of the questions in the publics mind as to where it came from you can explain perhaps why it was repealed under

simplification purts but a need for this to come back into law that would be my recommendation to you that's probably the way i'd handle it if you were a commissioner. >> thank you. any other comments? >> commissioner keane. >> yes. i mr. chair, i would ask commissioner hur whether or not he would accept this is a friendly amendment some language shows indeed that was a requirement that the city had until 2010 and it was changed there were restoring it that had no requirements that was a big part of the discussion i think

that is a big part of emphasis and contractually conceptual lists it we talked about the fact that san francisco is really an out liar by not having this type of expenditure lobbyist protection every other jurisdiction has it it would be good for the public to know we're restoring something do you have any spot in that language where we could - i think we all agree with that suggestion. >> i was trying to find it i couldn't. >> i have one commissioner and i agree commissioner renne with our suggestion i would put it it right before the sentence on line 17 i'll add a sentence is

this ballot measure reverses the requirement public disclosure of expenditure by expenditure lobbyists that existed in san francisco until 2010. >> just one clarification so actually, the executive lobbyists was in 2009. >> it was. >> yeah. just to clarify. >> would you repeat. >> this ballot measure reverses the requirement of public disclosure of spending by quote expenditure lobbyists quote/unquote that existed in san francisco until 2009. >> thank you. >> the next sense sentence it is not unique to san francisco. >> in terms of following up on i'm not sure where the

commission was if you want to include a medication of the explicit $2,500 threshold i very specific language if you want it i don't know if the commission wants to include that. >> i'm on that issue if you want to include it but you don't i did not feel it was essential. >> so it is clear the motion is adding the language that is going to go in the voters pamphlet for - if the commission concerning the ballot measuress. >> sorry for my lack ever clarity on that. >> i'll call the >> all in favor, say i. >> i. >> opposed? carries unanimously before we leave this whole subject matter, however, after

discussions with the city attorney and having read his memo i think i would be inclined to ask mr. mini art to be the one to represent the commission before the ballot simplification and also be the spokesperson for the commission one because i believe he probably has more familiarity of ins and outs of that legislation than certainly i do and i for my own position i would be more and more most comfortable referring anyone that asks me he's the

spokesperson so i don't run afoul of using words that the city attorney tells me are loaded words or words that are campaigning i have to say what he first discussed this subject you mean we can't tell you voters we're in favor of that it was intuitive active we have to say as i read the memo we can't he's right we are restricted from advocating for any ballot measure no expectation to those we put on so my suggestion to the subject what other commissioners feel we designate

to the deputy director to be the spokesperson to address the concern that shows that the commission isn't behind it or not enthusiastic about it because we don't attend the community meetings or we don't respond to the press i think that is sufficient to tell them under our ethical obligations we can't but i will open that to discussion. >> mr. chair. >> commissioner keane i'm having a lot of trouble not that i'm not going to go along with everything you've said not the fall but u fault but on a logical part mr. speaker, in terms of your orange e original

statement a question for the gentleman we're the notification ethics commission we have put forth unanimously a measure that we believe that will certainly buy our votes the voters of san francisco should adapt this measure goes to good government and policy and everyone else now before the voters for consideration we have had r not to give the appearance we're pushing the measure we think whether it it's a good thing and that we not endorse it to the voters this is just a measure we've originally put on there is something terribly inlogic that rubs me the wrong way

in fact, when i was first considering it i'm not going to do this i was thinking of challenging it in teaching the first amendment in any constitutional law i teach on the subject of unconstitutional conditions in terms of whether or not citizens can be subject to a unconstitutional condition when they have certainly roles in socialite and one of the unconstitutional conditions certainly would be that one can't speak out as an individual in the elect roll process what you think should be involved i have a lot of problems with that on the first amendment i'm not going to make an issue of you

but i'm often thinking of it and i've vented enough i just wanted to get that out there. >> should - am i overstating the restrictions? i feel are encompassed obtain our role as ethics commissioners to comment it should be obvious to the voters we're in favor of it we voted for it but as you leave the cases and our advice we can't become advocates >> that's correct mr. chair but following up with the previous responses to commissioner keane we certainly can provide

information there is not that means you can't provide objective and partial information as the gentleman mention you commissioner went to mergers and outreach gatherings to talk about the measure as well you're not legally riders as a commissioner not to be involved if you rather have it as a spoke up it is up to you occupying that spokesperson as with jessie a staff member that is not different in any respect but this would be i think the best way of abiding by the activities we've talked about in the memo information there is an official designation of that responsibility to a particular - well combination member of the staff members that it should be an official designation so

people are not accused of going out on their own and violating some of the rules. >> commissioner renne. >> following up on that then a good no disrespect to mr. mini art but commissioner renne i prototype i think we need much more appropriate if you as chair the committee were the spokesperson because this is something important it is the first time in 13 years that this commission has put something on the ballot we can't go ahead and put the emphasis behind it in the political process that we i think i and perhaps i think several others feel is entitled to because we put it on the ballot i think at least we can say we can show that it is

important enough to the public that we want our chair to be the person who is the spokesperson in regards to what this measure is all about i think i respectfully ask that you serve in that capacity mr. chair as the spokesperson for it rather than a staff member. >> i appreciate the confidence or comments but if i were going to do it i would want to do it in conjunction with a staff member. >> that's fine. >> i've would feel necessary to defer to him on questions that might be i wouldn't feel comfortable answering that i'm factually accurate

and i think that would be fine you be the spokesperson with the assistance of mr. mini art at your side in regards to anything you might want to ask him about. >> any other discussions. >> that sounds good to me. >> i agree with that, i just in listening to comments from members of the public i do think this is important that commissioners be visible in terms of representing this ballot measure and representing the facts of the ballot measure although we can't state or take a position or advocate that is understood that's why we're in

favor of it but i think it sends an important message to the public the commissioners are evolved and if we're going to be speaking to groups the chair and mr. mini art together that would work very well and anywhere else in the world you, you you know we'll have anything do a communication session we have all the same talking points and reading from the same script to the public but since we're not allowed to do that unless we have a public meeting we'll not have a public communication strategy not that we don't value our input but i suspect that is not going to happen it might not a burden for you commissioner keane.

>> i gladly designate to you. >> (laughter) >> i suppose we can put it in the form of a motion and have public comment. >> i move commissioner renne is designated and a spokesperson in regards to that ballot measure and using the assistance of mr. mini art. >> commissioners can i clarify it is for the bs e committee simplification ballot. >> any public discussion? >> hello commissioners larry bush i thought i would share some of the issues when i appeared before the sierra club some of the issues are policy questions for example, why is the commission putting this on

the ballot instead of going to the board that was a policies question that was the board not a staff why are the nonprofits segregated by 50 c-3 and serving people in los angeles but only nonprofits by definition it includes nonprofits in the depiction if you look at the issues about the issue advocacy nonprofits that are supporting good afternoon walkers campaign the relationship was clear he was indirectly that all of his money for issues be sent to the nonprofits so he didn't have to deal with them thefr they remember his donors the question by the court if this was a coordinated campaign the court

decided no first rights for the advocates but certainly can be true in terms of lobbyists that are doing the expenditure lobbying on the measures by the board of supervisors who happens to be in some other office those are issues beyond the staff level i was asked whether or not this measure was aimed at their airbnb or other issues that is a question your best able to answer yourselves i was asked how much of how much money will the fees raise for the 5 hundred thousand plus i don't know the answers for any of the questions i don't think anyone in the room knows off the top of your head but the issues i'm having appearances coming up in a number of sessions i'll be happy

to share whatever i learner from the sessions thank you. >> can i comment on that in terms of the questions that we're proposed as examples i'm wondering whether or not we couldn't have a document that would be frequently asks questions about the ballot measure i hope that wouldn't appear to be advocating for the measure but would that be legal mr. chin. >> yeah. in expect it about what you say not how you say it again, if we're talking about what the measure doesn't see it is okay. >> people have many questions and if we could have something on this website we could turn to as commissioners that would be

helpful i don't think we've done in the past. >> good evening commissioners elder a forensic of ethics i'd like to say i think that is a very wise decision to have a commissioner appear before the public and not advocate but answer questions one of the biggest problems that with that commission that needs to occur to restore capitol hill's public confidence in you and one of the biggest problems as a former civil joorj looking at xhibts that commission has advocated its authority to the deputy or the executive director this is a very good first step

in making the public have more confidence in this commission thank you. >> thank you. >> thanks mark solomon that is important to send a commissioner the ballot implementation is a place to have a commissioner not more staff it is a bizarre operation in city government and this has a major impact you can speak what happened to the commission what arguments were made who said what and what you heard as commissioner without going forth and saying you have to vote for this but i think that is important that we are trying to get to the root of how public dollars have spent to influence the public process the commissioners that are public officers make direct

advocacy i think you can make a bad law further commissions can side all kinds of bad things but the commissioners constraint your bound to a higher standard of what you can and cannot do but making the comments you have to be residents and voters of city that is a more direct connection to the voters and putting that on the ballet thank you. >> any other public comment? >> with our permission i'd like to speak for a second about the previous motion i the look at the municipal elections code section 575 has a 3 hundred word limit you should be prepared to think about the

rebuttal argument if there is one put forth there's 2 hundred and 50 word limit we'll feed off that argument look at section 575 thank you. >> thank you. >> dr. derrick occur i agree with commissioner hayon that a commissioner should speak about this ballot initiative and sense commissioner renne has anytime not familiar with the in can see have commissioner renne because he is familiar and spends great deal of time it make sense to me. >> thank you. >> any other comment?

we'll call the question >> all in favor, say i. >> i. >> opposed? that carries and that will include i assume as i think there is a shorted window for a reasonable person if there is opposition i'll draft and approve a rebuttal. >> if the commission didn't time can i follow-up on the feedback interest that was helpful 535 provides the word lim limit. >> 518 or 538?

>> i would suggest that we can to the extent that cut it down a little bit it exceeds the 2 hundred and 50 we'll do some editing but keep the tune of the lunge on pages one and 2 of the findings is that all right. >> yeah. i think if we are designating to the commission to follow up and shorten their argument we may want to designate the commissioner responding to the rebuttal argument that was what i was asking you was saying that i assumed that i would have the responsibility seeing i've been designated as the spokesperson also. >> sorry. >> having the responsibility of prep a rebuttal to whatever

opposition. >> understood. >> i'm absolutely fine with that i'm not sure that was crystal clear in the motion but if it's okay with the city attorney i'm fine with that. >> i think that is up to the commission if the commission wanted to redo you want that that is up to the commission. >> we're asking for your advise not have to be done but if it does. >> the executive director is did he say absent tonight. >> i'm asking your advice for a city attorney do we need to do that. >> you can out of caution recast the vote. >> why not make a motion. >> i move we also allow commissioner renne to have to shorten the ballot measure

proposal and to respond to any arguments or rebuttal with the city deputy city attorney. >> is there a second. >> second. >> public discussion hearing none i'll call the vote >> all in favor, say i. >> i. >> opposed? hearing none it carries unanimously all right. turning now to agenda item 3 and the decision and possible action on the recruitment profile for the executive director position again there has been an amended recruitment profile i think you've all received and corrected some of the errors that have been appointed by a number of people

and i will call for discussion on that revised draft. >> commissioner keane. >> yes. mr. chair i don't have it in front of the of me right now but we had a transmission from mr. bush pointed out out i think accuracy in regards to like who is now the president of the board of supervisors. >> that's been corrected. >> oh, okay i'm fine.

>> i had an amendment to the top priorities on page 5 of the draft. >> okay. >> enforcement i think we need to be a little bit more specific i'll suggest we say lead staff in efforts to insure compliance with the ethics laws and effectively coordinate with other agencies. >> i also think that we might benefit from hearing some public comment i know we've got some correspondence at a high-level of concerns but if the public

has specific edits they think are appropriate that would be helpful to hear that. >> all right. commissioner keane has referred to an e-mail that mr. bush sent to all the commissioners so on and so forth some gyms and specific ones as to what he believes should be included and not included and i will call for public comment at this time >> thank you. i'm larry bush the materials i sent was the product of several people including awe lane the past foreperson that worked on the ethnicity with the civil grand

jury report and attorney on the civil grand jury and other people involved i tried my best to provide a run down based on the organizations that was in the material but in large measure what that announcement didn't do is provide a real sense of what is going on in san francisco and how the ethics commission fits so what is important about san francisco as a city right now is not that we have museums or the constitute institute for arts but in a time of great change those changes are bringing pressure economically and have an impact on the work of the commission when it talks about the city government fails to mention the role of the commission and jet nothing in the article it says that san francisco is unique

with a level the participation with the city commission that also does not give preference to enforcement that is on the same par with some of the responsibilities that the commission has enforcements is one of the weakers areas where the new executive director that is an area that needs to be given more priority as commissioner hur just said i think that in general the duties of the executive director have are to follow the policies and priorities by the commission the way it is written it is almost as to the commission sits on the sidelines while the executive director sets the priorities if it has to be anything close to that it would be in communication with the commission the commission should

be the counseling body not the executive director among the critical qualifications is a record of enforcement since this is one the critical things that is missing there's more those are the headlines >> thank you. any other public comment? >> i'm bob plant hold he was appalled to see this draft it reminds me what i the in eight grade in st. louis all the

geological is a project month idea it misses the power point substantially any professional interested in it this job with on his own look up information on the city if they don't know about san francisco some of that is irrelevant and simplistic it misses the point you need a executive director who fully taxicabs and didn't take a lot of days off who is going to communicate thoorl with you folks and make sure that you said what press or media inquires come to the executive director or come to the executive director from the press and the board and the mayor whoever else in city government you may feel it is too late to restrict that rather than let the timeline drive the

adoption of that proposed recruitment profile you consider re writing it yourselves maybe you have to extend the timeline and decision making but to me this is setting the limitation and flaws i've tried to amend nickels you canned it and threw it out i regret whatever money was spent that is not worth a professional response thank you. >> thank you. >> hello gun hilda i want to say that what the executive director for the noifbs in san francisco needs to be someone who hadn't been tainted by the

previous office of executive director mr. sincroy has not been a glowing example for what would be something of a high standard and unfortunately, i mentioned before this commission has advocated its authority to such a person it's time for a new start in san francisco and it wouldn't hurt to have someone who necessarily hasn't been a part of previous administration but someone who has a strong background in ethics because overall the ethics commission is sloped to be the top ethical agency in this city thank you. >> hi commissioner mark solomon when i first got involved in

politics in the late 90s i met a commissioner that was drunk there are two types one that runs the department and one the department runs the commission there is a balance the commission and staff has a productive relationship with staff what we have is not going to get here mr. sincroy was outside of the city and cultural of san francisco but the canned school of governments maybe put an ivy league masters program what we've seen from harvard university in with supervisor campos and supervisor wiener has not been any more than someone trying to benefit the folks in san francisco that is the nature of the corruption we want someone that is not afraid to

stand up for their issues to make sure the laws are enforced no matter who is coming up up and tribe it didn't see manipulating in the city family i'm not sure how to craft that kind of language to that person can have someone with a record of enforcement a record of some sort of forensics to understand the records of the laws to make determines at the end of the day the buck stops with the ed if not with you all we'll have to live with this person lie mr. sincroy the other choice would have been an unmitigate disaster so it is a tough grab trying to figure out ways to craft to get someone here it is a tough job

thank you. >> thank you. >> i'm rob and i was on crystal grand jury i think that should have a session that outlines the leg framework the position and the commission better than what you have now you have kind of mashed together and outlined by the chart you have the governmental conduct code and finance code that the notification noifgsz staff in enforcing and the relationship with the california laws and the f p t c the ethics commission staff is administrative review form 7 hundred filings with the f pbc

and then get a sense that the ethics commission itself can put things on the ballot and many of the things within the governmental conduct code initialed by the voters in san francisco in response a abuses by elected officials in the past thank you. >> thank you. >> derrick occur again, this commissions own code of ethics calls for form of within the political process that too often comes from outsiders civil grand juries with the sunshine and whistle blower containments

rather than an independent reform the ethics commission as an appendage of the city attorney's office your recruitment profile emphasize forcing it's been regulations and others legal itself and it is adherence to laws defines ethical conduct that is the case most of time but ignores the stance that challenge the status quo social justice advances because of moral encourage but your recruitment profile prioritize remain quote mature and impartial unquote so while neutrality is important it can become a mask for silence complicity given the tendency of government to be unresponsive

something more than neutrality is needed in a executive director and the grafttional pull of city hall is such even a neutral director is going to be drawn towards the powerful and away from the public i think that has happened in recent years so, please consider moral encourage as courage as a qualification thank you. >> good evening, commissioners charley for the record there are some things that have been left out of the list when i think you best include because i'm not sure that the candidates wouldn't be taken auerbach if they found themselves in the middle of an

election campaign sponsored by you such as the current measure or the official misconduct hearing that obviously took a lot of time and focus about you and your predecessors those things are rare but unfortunately now that the shelf that have that egging has been cracked it maybe more frequent than seen in the past other thing i thought was critical for this position was that maintenance of boundary maybe i'm stakt to speak like someone that is criminally trained but boundary have tripped up previous commissioners not commissioners executive directors because it is easy in time to lose sighted of exactly where you're at and

so one of your jobs as commissioners to keep essentially heard on the boundaries being maintained by the staff and vice versa everybody needs to be checking and beale each other but the boundary i think calm u came up last time when mr. sincroy was appointed i would recommend that somehow that be addressed in our position requirements is really takes a person that is able to maintain a strong boundary and a sense of boundary those are my thoughts thank you. >> any other public comment? commissioners is this as anticipated we would take public comment and any we're not - it wasn't anticipated we agree that

the document to go out you've designated that to commissioner vice president andrews and myself and the recruiting firm but we have the input from the public and we'll make changes based on that input but the present anticipation is that we would like to get it out by the first of august with a cut off date after labor day for response is there some reason we have to have that timetable >> no except that we the executive director is out as of the 27 of august before our next meeting

in the ordinary course under the procedures the deputy director will be the interim director pending the selection of the successor and think the hope was we might be in a position to have a proposed hire by the september meeting but if there's a sense that we need more time certainly we can ida be happy to hear about it. >> i raise it mainly because i can understand the considerations of the chairs put forth but i'm very dissatisfied with that job description the way it is

and the way it has been put and - it's been put to us by professional group and i guess they have a formula for doing things and it is a very unappreciative document in my opinion in terms of talking about what the job description is all of the criticisms that are raised in terms of starting off with several photographs photographs about what a wonderful place for tourism if you want to apply for this job that was an immediate turn off for the fact we're looking for a professional in regard to what members of the public indicated and we we know we want we want

someone with a certain focus and dedication and strength in regards to addressing some very important matters of ethics and policy in san francisco someone that is something of a bulldog in regards to doing that things have been raised perhaps about a litigation background an "x" prosecutor or something like that but someone that will pursue those questions should do and come before the commission in a very dense fashion i don't get a sense of density it if i were someone looking through this proposal and i had just retired from someplace there would be a nice little sort of thing to fall into not taking a

lot of effort, not taking a lot of problem i think i'll apply for it i don't think this is the message we want to get across the members of the public told us there is a particular person that we want to fill this job who is going to be doing it in a honest and very vigorous and zealous way at the same time is not going to be attempting to upcoming super the policymaking aspect of the commission and that the commission should be the paramount body that is the face of the public and should be deciding many of the things rather than someone we'll hire as the next executive director and sit in the center of this table and have the public look at as oh, that's the guy r that

runs the commission that's the way it has been looked over the course of years what some justification. >> i think we ought to rewrite this i'd like to take some time maybe extend the time constraints you're talking about perhaps another month and maybe several of us take some shots at helping to rewrite this at least emphasizing various things rather than having this go out. >> before i call any commissioners you spoke with her did you not. >> i the i have a have nice conversation with the lady two days ago. >> did you impress express our

thoughts. >> in a phone call that laced a while they're not here. >> i agree with that but i've - i know she said she was going to to all the commissioners she'd not spoken to you when she presented this i assume after you spoke with her much of the comments are going to be reflected you want to hold redraft and want more time that's fine. >> can i comment on that i mean, i look i get this is not the person i don't disagree with the provision that are proposed i'm fine with revising that but you know let's be clear a perfect document is noticing not going to materially change i think the

number and quality of candidates i think that could change would we get but not spend all our time trying to come up with the perfect document over most of time we want a person the best person we can get and in a timely fashion as we can and you know, i think we designated in authority to the chair and having to work with the first committee to came up the language and gotten good feedback ged god and try to get it auto by august 1st if they need more time they need more time we're going not going to meet in august not holding this up until late september and don't have candidates until the

holidays. >> yes. i'd like to underscore with commissioner hur said we've gotten good feedback from the public and documents we can refer to i think the document needs to be improved we've been through an executive improvements process the job description and those pages are the determining factor in getting a great executive director yeah, that will rely on the committee that is the search committee that interviews the candidates and makes the decision this can be improved let's get it done not stick to a trouble but without going overboard nice to have a new executive director by the end of the year if noted sooner the best possible candidate yes,

it's a limited role nate statewide there are not that many people in that field so i'm sure the word is out among the people that are professionals and in this field and if not this will help to get the word out but everything is not determined by the words and this job description especially mr. bush's comments about describing san francisco that needs to be corrected he's right that bears an important influence in the kinds of issues we will be dealing with in the months and years to come beyond that you know - let's do what we need to do improve it and move along not tied to an absolute deadline italian-american going to time myself to that. >> i defer to the wishes of my colleagues and what is expressed

the fact that the chair has indicated quite clearly the chair cognizant of what the members of the public said and does not feel itself is bound by this as any kind of gospel that has to be preached out there so i'll put it into the hands of the chair. >> let me say when i read this first part the city government the ethics commission all the emphasis my sense was that probably unnecessary in a recruiting because whoever is whoever is coming out here is aware of the city of this city and what's going on and the issues i mean so that my principle focus was on what the

requirements the sort of basic requirements that we want in our executive director and i agree with the statements that have been made we want someone that is strong on enforcement, comes from a background whether he's been in prosecutor's office or private practice but that i think a minimum he should be a lawyer and have experience in not only managing but in the areas of enforcement which i think is a very, very for part we need strengthening but i appreciate all the comments and i will go back to alliance and come back to the drawing board on part of it but

i'm not disposed to spend weeks before we get it out because once we get it out the people we about get are no good we'll have to start again but maybe somebody out there and i've heard rumors that are people who are interested in the job who are well qualified and who would be meet all our requirements but until we get it out we can't so i will try to get it out in the next 10 to 15 days and thirty days to have people respond and hopefully, we'll move from there. >> commissioner hur. >> chair two comments i agree with almost everything you've

said describing the commission is helpful and the only other thing the concern i also agree it should be a lawyer but not make that a requirement. >> public comment? >> thank you, commissioners bob former commissioner want to go to the compensation section of your draft document i was here 15 years ago, i wouldn't have worked for in i think you need 0 relook at your compensation the outline of the type person you want i think your restricting yourselves considerly by the range of salary you have to look at

increasing the salary range and broadened the appeals who you might bring in. >> i appreciate the comment i share our concerns but unfortunately, we have been advise by h.r. that those are the requirements absent our having saying some candidate who is super duper and go and is look this man and woman would be ideal but he or she wants more money we think we ought to be able to pay it but our hands are tied by what the city structure allo allows. >> i've already been up here larry bush what h.r. is doing is giving you the boiler plant template bans the number of employees and the budgets rather

than the special qualifications and the duties that go with that position i think there is a lot of room for investment of this not at least looking at the cost of living in the city if you're going to bring inside someone and pay them $11,000 you'll not get the kind of person if even if you went to hundred and $46,000 that's not a salary to pay for a senior lawyer even for a paralegal i don't know. >> i don't disagree. >> i worked at hud and made hundred and $60,000 was not an attorney i was a spokesperson that spun people and well compensated but on the other hand, i know what my skills and what is riders for a executive

director on the cutting-edge nailing port commission a commission that is unique in putting something on the ballots i don't know of another commission that don't it the language says it could be increases bans other considerations i think that would behove you well, to talk about some of the other considerations that would allow for an increase in that whether those others considerations are 10 years of experience heading up an ethics commission someplace or a history of having written go ethics laws but think about that because if you put out those document with those kinds of numbers i'll have any secretary apply (laughter). >> do you charles do you absolutely need to state numbers

do you have the option of deleting numbers and saying salary based on experience and credentials and some boilerplate authoritative there have i would fudge by not putting in numbers. >> that's calls bait-and-switch. >> we're tethics commission. >> h.r. will come along but not start with this is a weak negotiating position you guys should know that. >> any other comments

all right. there being no other agenda items i hear a motion to adjourn. >> second. >> all in favor, say i. >> i. >> opposed? ladies and gentlem

chair called the meeting to order. can you please turn off electronic devices as they interfere with the equipment in the room and please rise for the pledge of allegiance. i pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america and to the republic, for which it stands, one nation, under god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. [inaudible] welcome to the wednesday july 22, 2015 meeting of the san francisco police commission. first of all i want to apologize for being late but getting here from financial district proved more serious than i thought today. this evening i want to start