>> the chair has called the meeting and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> commissioner loftus i would like to roll call. >> please do. >> commissioner loftus here. commissioner turman here commissioner marshall. commissioner dejesus is present. commissioner mazzucco present.

commissioner hwang. here. commissioner melara. here. you have a quorum with us is deputy cheap hector and sitting in for the occ is san ramirian. deputy will be in for cheap chaplain p we will have the office of citizen complaints there she is now. welcome director hicks to the june 22nd, 2016 of the police commission. thank you for everyone's accommodation we're normally in room 4 hundred. tonight the fire commission is in that room that's why we're not this that room thank you fsh everyone's patience finding their way here. we do have a large crowd and anticipate public comment we have a light for the sheriff to direct you to

the south light court to folks can follow.. i will go ahead around start by reminding folks of the rules sergeant will walk everybody through that. we have a large agenda tonight and significant comments i will knee the public cooperation making sure the meeting runs as smoothie as possible. we endeavor to give everyone the same amount of time we want to make sure we hear from every member of the public this can only occur if we're able to run the meeting i ask for your cooperation ahead of time for that. if anyone is out of order i will let you know if it continues, we will have to ask you to be removed from this meeting that would be unfortunate we want to hear from everyone. with that, i will ask

you to read t... >> the agenda shall [reading] speakers are refrain from using profanity and/or yelling or screaming -- members of the public should address their questions or remarks to the commission near police personnel or occ personal or commissioners should respond except when requested to do so. refrain from

debate or discussion with the public comment. members of the public may not express local support made by members of the public police department and occ staff. -- impede the public to see or participate in the meeting cameras and taping divided may be brought into the meeting room. persons are prohibited flash camera lights or other devices that may disrupt the meeting the president possesses the power to remove anyone from the meeting of the following acts disorderly conduct that disrupts the course of the orderly meeting speaking out of turn or refusing to comply with the commission rules governor meeting -- disrupting

the orderly course of the meeting disobedience of the commission president included to be seated any other unlawful interference with the due orderly course of the meeting. >> thank you. sergeant. with that we have 1 housekeeping item on the agenda colleagues closed session item 8a we will take the closed session off calendar tonight at the request of the vice president turman i will take that off calendar with that sergeant? >> sorry it's items 6, 7, 8, and 9 related to closed session. >> they will be taken off calendar i have about a view of 60% of you i see supervisor ovelo let's get started call the first line

- update on additional resources for major crimes unit for investigation of unsolved homicides . >> thank you. good evening deputy cheap i know there are a number of items here we have had 2 commercial meetings for you welcome deputy chief. >> commissioners director hicks and members of the community. commissioner loftus you asked for an update on the recent activities including the strategities for gun related incidents and homicides that's where i will begin my address in

update of the homicides we're up 26 compared to 23. last year we were slightly up 13% increase it's a trend upwards from previous years but we are implementing several strategies to address the gun violence. the homicide detail has made arrest in 11 of the 26 homicides and the other investigation with positive leads some of the strategies to interrupt the gun violence includes targeted interventions zone deployment strategies real time data shootings to potential gang violence to deploy in the area impacted by future gun retaliation etc. we deploy resources such as tactical units our task force investigation units to area we see increase in

police activity in efforts to prevent retaliation we work with outside agency with juvenile adult probation the street violence response teams to have that communication to make sure we're using every resource available to prevent future violence we also do compliance check on high risk offenders such as probation and parol offenses with active gang members to prevent violence to recover guns etc. this year to date we recovered 419 firearms, this is decrease from last year. last year in total we seized 1 thousand 85 firearms through these enforcement efforts so that's what we're doing to prevent gun violence in the

city. in addition to that we're doing some preventative steps such as youth engagement. the department this year has 3 hundred youth and paid ininterns working throughout the city the garden project project pool and city agencies this brings a total youth served to 16 hundred since 2011. we did an over lay with violent crime over the year and we noticed when we hire youth within the community crime drops it is a positive trend so we will continue in those efforts another program we're involved in is mo magic another paid inintern program we have additional 14-24 youth in that

program. and the commissioner is a program you are intimately familiar with. >> we will have them here on july 6th to introduce themselves . >> we did have another homicide on june 18th. 15 minutes after midnight officers responded to the area in hagara in response to a shooting upon arrival they found a male victim appeared to be gun shot wound transported to the hospital where he later died. in our efforts to again hold those accountable for committing these acts i'm happy to report we made a recent aris in the nightclub homicide that is 6th and harrison shaun was a victim. we arised 2 individuals responsible for that homicide. >> was there a charging decision in that case.

>> i don't know that. maybe commander can provide that when he gives his presentation. >> thank you. >> i will move onto my second presentation and that is on public safety during pride event. it's a big celebration here in san francisco that will begin on friday the opening ceremonies with the transfestival friday night that is a parade festival march starts in mission ends in tenderloin the following day saturday june 25th. we will have the civic center pride festival later on that day we will have the women's festival and march that will begin at 14 hundred then sunday again civic center festival kicks off in the northern district we will have the parade march the streets

through the civic center then post pride events on sunday so it will be a fun-filled weekend. we have plenty of resources to police that event. we increased deployment in castro since the orlando atacts they will continue to increase next week from patrol units foot beats special operations bureau we held meetings with the organizers to let them sure we will use every available resource to make sure the community is safe in light of the atacts in orlando. we're deploying some new strategies tactics to have screening of individuals for potential firearms or any other weapons we will have increased uniform and

street dressed officers to see any illegal activity. we are partnered throughout law enforcement throughout the bay area to have all transportations bart, muni coming in and out of the city to make sure we're able to provide security for individual traveling in and out of the city. let me see here. we will also have rapid response squads citywide should redeployments be necessary without impacting the resources throughout these events we do have units on standby. >> chief i have a question about that. 1 of the questions that i'm getting from folks is there is a sense of people wanting to be assured pride is going to be safe and measures are taken. what are the department's -- how

is the department going do get the word out about various measures and also if there are magnet ometers bring a small bag so folks can enjoy pride and feel safe. >> commissioner we had several public service announcement for media relations unit posted on the page we had meetings with the pride organizers letting them know to increase our patrols and security. the messaging if somebody sees something suspicious let us know right away we can determine if it's a threat or not. >> vice president turman. >> is it just sfpd providing security or private security as well for pride. >> there will be private security we're working with the

sheriff's department bart among others. >> okay. >> so to your question commissioner we're sparing no resource to make sure this is a fun and safe celebration without the weekend. moving onto the next item on my agenda i ask that looieutenant lieutenant >> welcome. >> sure. thank you. good afternoon. it's a work in progress right now. the draft was committed to chief back in february there is revision of the draft as we all know retired last month we're hoping for a meeting with chip chaplain. he was given the same draft. now he

has it in his possession and the revisions for from the chief. so we're waiting for him to give us an update. once that happens we will get together with the working group and reconciliate whatever differences we have to continue with working order. we're almost there. >> what do you need from us to help with that? >> i think we have it. we're going to meet with the chief to get feedback he gives us and work on, that hopefully we will here before you soon. >> why don't we set a goal the end of july getting you back here . >> by the end of july we will have something in writing. >> here's a letter from jennifer free boch from the homeless contingency it goes through everything necessary for what we don't have it would be good t

you don't have that letter whoever is looking at it inside the department to look at see the chief agree to some of those things and maybe you can analyze it and if there is more you you can include it's important we have a full cit program rather than certain conditions or prongs from what the program requires in order to work. >> definitely commissioner mrs. jennifer free boch we will reach out to her f i don't have it later to e-mail it to me. this is a work in progress. it's a community effort. so everything is discussed within the group. we are glad to review it. >> i appreciate that. >> lieutenant with the goal of end of july our last meeting in july which will be a community meeting held here in city hall we can have a calendar and update and see the draft on july

20th. >> i cannot speak for the chief. >> but you should speak into the mic. >> i'm sorry. i cannot speak for the chief on the final decision that goes before you but i can meet with you when he returns from vacation and get it going. >> president? >> thank you. i have met with the june third meeting with lieutenant and jennifer free-boch. i think it's in really good shape it's going to make it's way to the commission we discussed certain aspects of it during the meeting unlike the dgo's we deal with there was significant consensus on almost everything. i think we will be able to move forward quickly with that. i thank the working group it was an incredible meeting i want to thank

lieutenant malina based on his experience he's a perfect fit for the unit. >> what do you have a master's in. >> family marriage and children counseling . >> and you were on gang unit? >> yes. >> we will have an update for the dgo let's set that as a goal and look forward to hearing from you thank you lieutenant malina. >> thank you. >> deputy back to you. >> now to deputy chief otama. for an update. >> deputy chief director hicks members of the hub i'm deputy chief garrett tom of the standards and policing bureau to give you an update on the doj

collaborative reviewing process they were here on june 6th for a week they went today view housing units as well as the homeless units gang task force and foot beat officers from the police department the sand lot program the districts have to engage youth with pick up games like basketball and baseball games they have worked with our department such as occ and the bay view commission community meeting they also attended the police commission meeting held the city college. they interviewed the captains from tenderloin and northern stations. they have a really strict tight schedule and

they're coming back again next monday. and some of the things they will be attending to are going to bay view station doing ride alongs they're also going to observe foot beats in the bay view they have team meetings with our bureau and they will interview people from the eis data collection. >> can you say what iis . >> that is the early intervention data collection system where we try to find out which officers have complaints or officers we need to look at that may become a problem. sometimes not they have fall into a pattern that we need to look at. we also do ride alongs in tenderloin. they're going to

meet with employee groups all of the peg groups the police employee groups. they're going to meet with dhr and the psychological consultant we hire to hire new recruits. they're going to attend ctap meetings at northern station and also going to meet with our technology people and find out what is the process of auditing cell phones and electronics. they interviewed the attorneys at internal affairs and then they're going to go to meet with the neighborhood prosecutors at several stations. so they have a very, very tight, busy schedule for the following week. then july 15th, they're going to

draft their first memo and that's going to go to the doj that is the first draft and hopefully, we will see the final product in august or september. >> and that final product if you can explain to folks what that is. >> that is the evaluation of the san francisco police department what we need what we can work on they're doing evaluation of the whole police department. >> there are 5 areas of focus you can remind us what those are? >> transparency, if there is any implicit or explicit bias, are we doing things geared towards the 21st century policing. obama's 21st century policing. the other ones are kind of -- >> i think 1 of them is use of

force. >> of course. use of force which is, of course, you will be voting on very soon. >> as well as i think the other is discipline and accountability. >> yes. >> so we have asked commissioners as you recall we asked the deputy chief of this bureau where things are at with doj reminding everyone they're in their fact finding stage towards those goals and we will issue a report with specific recommendations for this police department and we hope that is in august. if you are interested in looking at other collaborative reports it's on the website in other cities and provided up to 91 recommendations. >> yes. >> is there anything else for deputy chief tom. >> they have met with community stakeholder groups . >> that is correct. >> can you remind us who those

folks were. >> we're not supposed to tell who they're meeting with. >> we're not supposed to know or not supposed to tell. >> they keep it general right now until they come ut with a report. >> how do we know -- >> it will come out. >> i know. how do we know the people they're talking to are part of the people we would like included in terms of reaching their conclusion? >> okay. i know i'm not supposed to go into specifics. >> i don't want you to do that. what i mean is we do have a lot of different community groups and stakeholders and some of them are traditional way some are not. they're all through the city. >> do we have a sampling? >> yes. i'm sorry they have gone out to the tenderloin, bay view, western addition and bo decker

park for instance. i'm trying to remember exactly where there is like 4 different places they have gone out. >> maybe what we can do offline not here you still don't have to tell us we can tell you the groups we should perhaps be included. we can do that offline and look on your list and something you can raise with them. >> we want to make sure everyone who has input and wants to speak on this issue gets an opportunity. >> colleagues the other option you have is e-mail the folks of the commissioners of doj and give contact information. anybody here interested in if you haven't spoken to the doj but you have an opinion about the police department while they're out here they're still having ongoing meetings you can speak in confidence with them your name will not be in the

report if the report is as accurate as possible. with the idea that would come back tow. feel free to notify any commissioner or chief tom we can get in touch with you. >> thank you deputy chief. chief sinus. >> i have investigation for unsolved homicides. >> 1 thing this commission requested is there is additional resources for unsolved homicides particularly the areas impacted by violence we know paulet brown brings this up to us. she asked for a specific update thank you xhaser macekron. >> thank you. commissioners director. >> can't hear. >> it's not that big we will

leave it there. first to answer an earlier question for arrest on a recent homicide 2 individuals arrested for a homicide occurred in the nightclub in the south of market area. both were booked on homicide charges conspiracy charges and gang enhancements. >> thank you. >> there have been loved ones that come and asked about some of the colder homicide cases updates on where the case with their loved ones there are a couple of things in the meantime we're doing to address those. the mayor talked about additional staffing for that. currently at our cold case unit we have 1 full time inspector and 2 retired inspectors that are back working under the 960 program. we're looking at adding 2 more 960 officers to the major

crimes unit they will not only address cold case but other major crimes with that we will have 1 full time and 4 somewhat full time officers to look at that. that is hopefully going to be addressed by the end of this summer in the meantime there are a couple other things we're looking at doing what is important we have homicide cases that are cold but sexual assault cases that are cold. with captain conly helped out we're going to be putting forth proposal to the chief for a sexual assault homicide cold case unit that will be independent and address both of those issues so we can have a robust investigation we're hoping to present that to the chief later this summer. what we're doing to address the cold cases that have been brought to our attention is we're go iing

back to about the year 2000 and looking for cases with rewards or high profile or cold cases and looking at having fresh eyes from the current envest gators take a look at those cases see whether or not there are other avenues of investigations we can go back to and look at. it's included them and the individuals that are assigned to the cold case unit as we look back at that we will make an evaluation make a determination a prior bulletin put out was sufficient whether it needs to be reintroduced and invest gative that can help in that case i know paulette talked about the homicide of her son. i was hoping she would be here tonight so i can speak to her

where we are on that case because it's a case we have reviewed and we're looking at doing additional things with the reissue of the bulletin to try and tickle it if there are individuals that have information on that they will move forward on that investigation i will talk to her f she's here for that. i will talk to her about it after we have reviewed the case. >> thank you commander. >> a couple other things 2 other things important with the cold case there is new legislation that has come out with the assistance of linda breed. the board of supervisors approval for the legislation to change the reward process homicide up to 2 hundred 50 thousand dollars enacted of may of this year we have come out with a new bureau of order and we will be moving

forward with additional bulletins up to 250000 for individuals that help us with homicides the most advanced things we're trying to do is ways we can interact technologically to help us solve this. the first 1 is that the department at times can be technologically challenged. we went to a website server with expanded services on the police department. when people go to the department's website they're not able to find things they're looking for 1 of the things we will have on our expanded site is a specifically funded site where someone can go to the site and look at the rewards put out click on them it then goes to a second site that shows

specifically a reward and they can look at that information and try assist us with solving that. the last thing we're going to do when we look at the bulletins out. we know some need to be updated and reissued. once we look at those and define which ones we want to reissue or come up with additional funding we're going to push that out through some other resources such as the traditional media they have always done social media and twitter. what we're trying to do is figure out how we get this information to the community so it doesn't get put out 1 time and we don't get assistance with that. the last 2 things we're planning on doing each station as you know has monthly crime and safety with the public we will look at all of the

bulletins issued in the past in the neighbor and provide those to the captain to the district to give out resources when he or she has a month loo crime meeting once a month the commission goes to various districts in the city and has their meeting at specific location. we will be including those at those locations what we're trying to do is when the community comes to a meeting they can get the flyers for a homicide occurred close to home and generate thought close to them that helps us improve the community relationships we're trying to work on in the past. that's where we are currently on the cold case homicide units. i'm happy to answer questions at this time. >> thank you commander i appreciate that. the main issue around these additional resources they're mroorly for the neighborhoods most impacted by violence we're talking about

looking specifically at bay view western addition i have asked in the past and i would love to have unsolved homicides going back 10 years by zip code because there is certainly a sense within bay view or the hall of justice there is an impact on communities particularly communities of color most impacted by violence where there is a higher ratio of unsolved homicides that is my operating presumption it would be great to have that data and how we're tackling that by issue of a cold case it's a tougher case the department might need additional resources to the board of supervisors and others to deal with that. it's not just some individuals as you know particularly communities have a larger percentage of unsolved homicides and the mom that goes

to the super market and sees the person they believe who might have killed their child has huge impacts i would love to see that data so we can coordinate that with acting chief chaplain to coordinate that in the past. how are you you triaging the cases given you only 2 have part time inspectors? >> the first part i can work with the deputy chief to get you a break down of the zip code to get you a clearer picture we're going to look at all of the cases there is a lot of them going back to 2005 once we break down where they are it gives us an idea where we want to allocate our resources to look at specific cases those are the ones impacted the most we will look at those and put it towards the ones that have more impact

than say other ones. there is always ones that come to the attention here we get noticed on specific individuals that have questions about homicides r and address those as well. we will do that in 2 ways it's gathering them all and prioritizing looking at the numbers and knowing we can try and solve those. i think 1 of the things with this year as the chief said we're at 25 homicides we have made arrests in significant amount of them and pending arrests in quite a few more i'm happy with the clearance and where we're going. a lot of that -- a ton of that is because of the community and input there are times in the past we have been challenged getting information about what has happened i'm pleased with the information we're getting from the community in parts of the city that helped us solve. a lot has been input from the community that might not have given us input in the past.

>> let's schedule that for august we can have the unsolved rates that is my sense is more cases are getting closed i would like numbers to support that. any questions for the commander? >> 1 question related to commissioner loftus and myself from the cpa p in the northern station the past 2 weeks. people are frustrating with the crime. i know the supervisors are frustrating too. i know they're watching the serial offenders whether they have been rebooked and what is their disposition there's a lot of distrust an anger with the criminal justice similar for example the woman that stole almost 2 hundred dollar -- 2 hundred thousand

dollar ambulance. are they meeting to track so they're better informed. >> we are. they have provided a lot of information from the crime analysis that is starting to get robust information as far as serial individuals what we're finding now is better communication among the captains a lot of the criminals are going cross borders of districts committing crimes where we're submitting that is investigation units so we can start to track some of those series we have a patrol task force since october. we have tracked every address that has been made oftentimes from multiple arrests occurred we're knot of 75 from that unit from auto burglaries alone. we

will have a presentation about all of the individuals arrested what happened with those individuals we're pleased at these points that auto burglaries are done but have a long way to go. the captains are working with us they hear the same things. we're trying to collaborate to get those numbers down. >> thank you. >> anything further for the commander? thank you commander. >> that concludes my presentation. >> colleagues any questions for deputy cheap sinus? >> we have a report coming up. there was 1 thing brought up at the community meeting we went in

engleside and carabu was there as well. -- the cpa p we thought that was strange. >> they don't have an active cpa p right now. >> i spoke to the captain he said he had it. i will concur. >> it might be hearsay it's important to find out. >> thank you. deputy chief sinus. call the next sinus. call the next item. announcements.) - presentation of the occ's fy2016/2017 budget >> good evening commissioners and members of the audience i will have brief announcements i will make this evening then i

will present the occ2016/17 budget of proposed by mayor [inaudible] this evening i would like to introduce a recent occ hire john alden. john alden fills the new attorney position created in 2015. the position is added to the occ budget at the strong recommendation from commissioner loftus and this commission during the budget process. john's practice in the occ include policy analysis providing staff training on laws and regulations impacting police practices guidance and legal review of investigations and importantly reengineering on the

occ's investigation processes and in the development of mandated -- [inaudible] the police commission and police department are familiar with his work. at his recent tenure since 2009. was an torn for the san francisco police department in internal affairs so he comes with experience investigate prior miss conduct. his practice includes private practice in civil and criminal law and practice as a district attorney as sonoma county. he has attended. the civilian law enforcement conferences for the past 3 years he received his juris doctorate uc berkeley known as berkeley law. he also received his bachelor's degree

in mass communications from uc berkeley. i would like to again welcome mr. alden to the office of citizen complaints. we know that the police commission indicated that a very strong priority for the occ is to have additional policy work assistance since before john's employment with the occ we had 1 policy attorney sam ramerian who has been stretched thin and thinner still with the use of force work she's working onment we're very happy to have john. thank you. >> thank you mr. alden. thank you director hicks . >> you are welcome. other hiring is in process in the occ i will address that during my budget

presentation. in the other areas the area of out reach prior to the passage of proposition d authored by supervisor cohan i was interviewed keow and kqo on the measure of the measure d the occ with passage we will have investigate all officer involved shootings instead of just cases complaint to occ -- after proposition d passes to discuss the proposition of the occ based on past practices we anticipate the officer involved shootings can triple to an average of 2 to 6 a year we're hopeful with the addition of new use of force policies the number of officer

involved shootings will drop. moving through out reach earlier this month out reach torn donna salazar -- to a taught to a uc berkeley mediation class. and earlier occ manager conducted out reach at a june 5th. health fare on the street. that concludes my report. >> any questions for director hicks on that report? okay. we would love to hear about your budget. >> commissioner loftus i would love to discuss it. occ investigator will operate the power point. i believe you all

have copies of the power point presentation on your desk. >> yeah. the organizational developments for the 2015/16. the occ has a record number of open officer involved shooting investigations we currently have 4 shooting investigations normally, we have month more than 2, but during this budget year, the 4 investigations that we are conducting involve fatalities of ameal ricar lopez mar woods concara and jessica --

with officer involved shooting investigation that means that the other occ investigators are carrying case loads of approximately 25 cases and best practices is 16. we will see as a move further through this presentation how the addition of more investigators to the occ staff will help relief case loads this has been a year for change as i indicated earlier proposition d passed additionally the commission adopted the body worn camera which means commissions will involve the review of obody-worn

camera footage. it's been a year of staff prior recruitment i introduced john alden the 55occ attorney recruitments in process this year have been 1 to fill a vacancy for journey level investigator and that hiring is nearly complete. a job offer has been made. that investigator expects to begin on august first. additionally 3 senior investigator positions have been recruited. interviews have concludes offers have been made the expected start dates for the 8126 senior investigators is mid

july. then finally, the recruitment for the information system business analyst asis assistant had to turn in recruitment for a temporary employee as the occ works with the department of human resources to develop the job analysis and the examination for the permanent position we expect that will move along quickly we will have 50 resumes for the temporary position and expect a start date no later than september of this year for the temporary employee: moving to the next supplied. that shows a comparison between the occ's 15/16 base budget. almost 5.6

million years to mayor lee's base budget of 6.4 million dollars for 16/17. i would like to thank the police commission for the occ's 2016, 2018 budget and in particular, thank president loftus for her vision on the occ budget and the implementation of the same by mayor ed lee. the occ recommended budget enhancement are nearly 1.7 million dollars over a 2-year period last yooek the bostard of supervisors hearg july 19 and 26. there another

budget meeting on the board of supervisors but there is no need for the occ to attend that hearing. moving to the next slide. it will show the occ's organization chart for 2016-2017 with the newly-added position and the o.cc they're all investigator positions it goes from 22 to 27. a 23% increase with investigators and 11% staff increase. next slide. it shows how the occ budget is allocated most is for staff salaries and

benefits. almost 90% no different than prior years. moving to the more detail on the proposed haenhancements. it doe reflect 4 positions that will start in october. there will be no delays because the occ has a certified open list so we will be able to hire from that list and then a .77 senior investigative position. for non-personnel positions that would be enhancements of 2 hundred 50 thousand dollars a quarter of a million dollars for professional services training to include transcription

services the occ currently transscribes a minute amount they conduct this will ease the workload of othe investigators to not have to summarize their interviews but instead to have the interviews transcribes we will also will using some of those moneys for training particularly for the investigators on staff who will be conducting the officer-involved shooting investigation. the total proposed enhancementsncluding staffing as well as the non-personnel is 84763 to the 2016/17. that concludes my presentation. >> thank you director hicks. i

think it's a great -- i'm glad the board of supervisors approved your budget i think that 200000 will be effective to the investigation words matter. knowing what was said is essential the strength of the independent investigations is the strength of othe department. i don't know if you can answer this director hicks i did read the charter amendment proposed by the board i don't know what the status is but it's to take out any position in your budget take it out from the police commission i read that as being under the police commission has a problem you illustrated the last 2 years in particular we have advocated strongly you get all the resources you need you are to that stage now where everyone is in agreement on that i wonder if you have some sense

of why that was drafted that way or if there is a benefit to not having us be in the position we're in for you getting your full budget. >> president loftus and members of the commission as you may be aware, there are 2 charter amendments that would directly impact the occ and another that would prifr reripheral ly impac was not consulted in those measured i'm contacted after the measures are drafted. i don't have a hand in the language that is chosen but the city attorney's office provides

effected departments with the measures after a member of the board of supervisors has drafted them. or propositions aufl officer-involved shooti why we were excluded from the budget process of the occ. i believe there is intent to no longer have the occ's budget be included in the police department's budget which i fully support because i think it causes confusion. people believe i as a director do not control the occ budget which could be no further from the truth and the police department does not touch

the occ budget. i will say under the first mrpolice chief and governor nusome my budget bled over ointo the police department's budget. to the benefit but later police chief have figured out that is probably not a proper accounting so there is no benefit for the occ to have it's budget in the police department but this commission's advocac acidvocat e

budget of the commission. over more if the commission has no over site of the occ's budget then opportunities like today might not necessarily present themselves for me to have that discussion. with the occ's budget. i would hope the -- martin luther kipolice commiss n thank you. any further questions for director hicks? >> just a few. looking at 3.08 i want to get a freshness for this list of entry level

investigators when is the list created and when does it expire? do you have an idea? >> i do have an idea the list is 3 years old as a recall and it expires the end of october. it can be extended. and it is either 2 or 3 years old. >> okay. >> so generally, a list stays active for approximately 4-5 years is that correct? >> well the director of the department of human resources is here i'm not sure whether the commission might want to learn from nikki calahan. the age of lists how long the list it

probably depends. >> sure director cal hlahacalla >> typically the list will range 6 moss sometimes up to 2 years and sometimes extended so it depends on the decision making process depends on if we have a rich pool and takes a lot of effort to create the list we generally want to have a longer list. does that address your question? >> thank you. >> and commissioner turman i may have mis-spoken. the list is i believe it is 2 years old as opposed to 3 years old the testing process is fairly

elaborate for occ investigators it's a civil service testing process it takes -- it took a year-and-a-half almost 2 years from the initiation from 8126 exam development process to final hire that was the senior investigator process. >> all right. and on the previous screen your budget made reference to work orders can you give us a sense of what type of work we're doing with those work orders. >> i don't think the public can hear you. >> you have to speak into the mic. commissioner turmvice pre.

>> that is the money we pay for tele communication services there are expenses set by the city. >> thank you. >> you are welcome. >> anything further for director hicks thank you. sergeant call the next line the next line items. >> president's report - commissioners= reports >> colleagues commissioner reports (speaking off the mic) all right. here's 1. commissioner melara went to inc.al sigleside -- they certai

follow the commission 1 of the things they wanted to know is the use of force policy they wanted the dates clearly spelled out how it's going to go to the meet and confer process we told them to watch tonight and what we see coming forward on the dates that is 1 of the things they're concerned about. they're concerned about ced they're in favor of it but they want to know what dates we're talking about that. they like to follow that. they were not really concern ee ee ee eed -- they we concerned about the mental illness and whether the police -- >> first responder .

>> it's an interesting dialogue we should think about they are the first responders there was discussion regarding that. deputy chi right and the calls to supervisors . >> which 1? >> critical incidences. they were talking about their supervisors they have 1 of the largest districts and their supervisors are way on the other side of town and how that can be handles . >> 1 of the things amazing to me they were surprised they could they could input to the commission at the e-mail they had to be present at the meeting

these are the cpa p to come to these meetings it's okay to send something in e-mail we will read it. just the process of going and meeting with them is so important. i think they're grateful we were there and could do with with other pcpap was great. they were there with only 2 members and they meet on the first wednesday of the month that would be difficult to go because of this meeting but we might want to have a meeting in that area not necessarily the third wednesday of the month but the first wednesday of the month. >> and the last thing someone mentioned the use of force. they were interested in 2a? >> yes. at that time the ones

available to 2a they supported 2a. >> thank you for taking the time to did that. commissioner mazzucco. >> thank you. president loftus there were a lot of concerns about the downtown area they have never seen a large number of people in crisis in the street they're frustrating with the criminal justice system and tired of the finger pointing they wanted the fact they're a gootd group i met with 2 members of the northern cpap group that were concerned with a few things and hiring specials with how concerned they were. i attended

earlier with the crisis intervention team meeting with the chief it was excellent there was discussion whether or not the officer should be first responders there was discussion we should have mental health professional department of public health showed up behind them if need be because we found out the 40%, that's an under estimate of calls for service officers deal with people in crisis during the 40% of calls officers are tied up 2-3 hours trying to find a place to put those people. it's awful. the doctor is shaking his head i put blame on the public health system they're taking the blame. our offeicers have to clean tha up. i attended the graduation of

the class 43 graduation the most diverse i have seen since on commission. thur teen spoke he spoke at uc berkeley and stanford law school we're attracting qualified people and i saw them take the oat, not on my watch. i was proud of the accomplishments with the department that sums up that period of time. >> many in this audience have talked to us about the types of officer we're recruiting it was the most diverse academy in the history department and the president having that background is extraordinary. does he haepu

you want to add for that? >> yeah. captain is in the process of recruiting additional members for for his cpap. regarding the e-mail i instructed the district station captain to send out e-mails to the cpap in the community and those that receive their newsletters to forward e-mails if they have questions or concerned with the commission. >> that is to community neighborhood association the cpap only involves those that are within police department but other neighborhood associations may be interested in well. >> i think captain is in those newsletters and posted it on the department website as well. >> yes. dr. marshall. >> i'm curious how did the meetings with the cpap originate? was the request to you from those particular -- >> i can take that. >> i don't know how often this

happened in the past with the time and urgency of what trying to do. >> any time we assign a commissioner to go based on their availability. many from the ingleside station attended the oouse of force commission meeting so thank you for doing that. in plans of searching for the chief we are reach out to cpaps and the neighborhood we will talk more about that when we get to that. commissioner melara? >> a few weeks ago i was contacted by the malina brooks of the mental health board i couldn't report our last meeting i was at because obviously remember we were here until 1 o'clock in the morning. the thing is she wanted me to see

whether she could connect with somebody in the police department because officer from seattle washington was going to be here was in charge of coordinating safe place in seattle where they engaged the community specifically, the business community to display decals that allows people to know if they are in a dangerous situation, the business would be a safe place for them. apparently they have gotten very, you know a lot of good response from the community so i called the office and sergeant kill shaw connected that to where the sign is and he assigned someone from the hag crimes unit to be a hard of this

and he put together this meeting and i attended obviously by the time this happened on monday the 8th. i was back from vacation at that point and the night before is when the orlando shooting happened so he brought together stakeholders it was a great meeting because we're looking at how we can implement a similar program within san francisco. i asked sergeant shields who is a part of that to look into the department and see what resources are needed and what resources are put to use in seattle before we bring it to the commission and look at whether we want to promote a program that would be essentially good for the community. this program is specific for the lgbt community

as we were talking about it we knew this could really work for just about any issue domestic violence homelessness all kinds of resources why people are abused. and so that was something. basically he's investigating that. i don't have anything to propose to you. but i hope we can move forward and look at this program it's really amazing . >> thank you commissioner we can add that to future agenda. i will say briefly we had the kick off. the community initiative and youth recommendations they expanded to an architecture program so the jobs kids are getting in the cities particularly in the neighborhoods impacted by violence there is a with the

city -- so we have cohort with d walkens who wrote the b side and new york times best selling author from baltimore about inner city youth. that was a good conversation the rements recommendations that came out of that is a lot of officers are not from san francisco and come from neighborhoods that are not ethnically and culturely diverse that is an a deficit for us to make up. that is unconstitutional the kids had funny answers about other things being unconstitutional so there was young people with you commissioner mazzucco to give

recommendations pride parade i will be there. if you haven't found a way there is 1 with the department. commissioner hwang. >> briefly i marched along with members of the staff of the june teen parade i also attended to the housing developments as they're being turned over to a nonprofit to run and specifically following the sexual assault of a 74 year old woman it's unsolved in the housing development and participate in a number of individuals related to the orlando shootings and some of the community feedback has been a concern of over policing the parade. i'm sure sfpd will deal

with it in a professional way but there is concern about too many police at the parade. >> call next line >> announcements and scheduling of items identified for consideration at future commission meetings (action). >> just to wrap up. cit shoot for july 20th. update on the doj and dgo and charter initiatives presentation is what i'm calling that. at some program it's a program called safe place. so let's put that on the docket on the dance card. i'm sorry sergeant -- commissioner? >> when are we going to have the social media brought to the commission. it's a big issue. >> don't have a date on that. >> i think we need to do that.

sorry. >> just to bring everyone back to speed there's a meet and confer with the chief sir on the social media policy there were revisions provided back to the voa so there's a second meeting conferred doh wanted to weigh in on the policy is included so there is consistency in general with the social media policy that's where it's at a meet an confer. >> that is city attorney alish yeah cabrara for members of the public. >> can we do that by august. >> as with meet and confers i can give you an update i don't know if everything will be done by then i can give you an update by then. >> how about we bring what we have available to commission even if it's meet and confer we

can do it sooner rather than later it's a concern. thank you. >> commissioner dejesus. >> before you there is a police reserve commissioner is in the officer i don't want to steel his thunder if it passes it will effect the department even if it doesn't pass there are issues n here that are important 1 of the things we talk about the use of force and cris intervention and is things like that we don't have time lines in there we don't have when things are going to be completed i know it's an ongoing process this is to enforce the timetable to make sure the goals are hit. i would like to calendar so we can talk about it as well as the

commission. >> thank you. anything further colleagues? we're going to do public comment now on items 1a through 1 d. supervisor avelos we will do public comments item 1a-1d and move onto the discussion with the meet and confer with the use of force sergeant did you want to say something. >> i wand to remind members of the public we are dark next week. we will be back in city hall in july 6th. in our regular room beginning at 5. 30 p.m. >> everyone will have an opportunity to speak on every item. it's 2 after discussion and before any discussion taken by this commission you will have a chance to give a public comment on items on the agenda this is just items 1a-d.

>> thank you. >> thank you president loftus deputy chief this is the item i have been talking about. since mayor announced his budget june thirty-first -- this is what we do with many departments in san francisco we put money on reserve and put certain conditions that must be met for that reserve to be released. i have talked about a size of a reserve for the police department of 2 hundred million dollars i think that is a large number and has gotten attention it needs to be as large as that but 1 certainly that would allow for union of i would say the

mripolice commission -- 1 is he today moving from reasonable use of force to use of force. i'm hearing of model that is implemented throughout the precinct put into place an early intervention system for reform and disability of racial profiling and having policies in place and establishing processes that are objective for background investigations for hiring officers especially laterals i have been told that many of these reforms are in the works. what i want to make sure is we're not just having a subjective approach but

objective we have metrics in place we can measure how that is being met and when that is happening i asked the officer criminaler to provide how that is being made and worked with the police department to share that. >> thank you. >> huh do you perceive that work withing the department and how can those metrics can be met. >> i want to ensure that the metrics in place coincide with the efforts under way. i don't think it makes sense to put a quick time line that can only be a fiscal year on issues that are going to take more time to develop and certainly the police department need toss be able to provide input. i think we need to have a fast time line if many of these put in place. this is a draft i believe we have to have conversation what is going to take to push to make it

attainable but still can be attained to have transparency and accountability about reform efforts underly under way already. >> some of the concerns these really important the use of force and crime prevention and the use of rational profiling what if you can't meet a certain metric or having difficult retrieving the data. how will that work going forward. >> we can set metrics in place that are going to be in realistic for what is currently being planned that is on othe front end making sure that is metrics are realistic if they're not met the board has a decision if we release funds if the funds are not met. that is reserve at the board of supervisors it would require 6 votes, to

release the punneds everyone on the board we share a common interest to make sure we carry out public safety we have an interest to make sure the reforms we want to see do happen that the officer-involved shooting -- and working with the mrpolice commission -- for fun . >> many of the departments have metrics in place in terms of releasing budget is that right. >> we have concerns and conditions placed on them. i cannot think of a time we

released funds unless there was a lack of effort we set for the release of the funds . >> do you anticipate working closely with the department with their success in f this passes in doing that and working with them and achieving these goals . >> absolutely we don't have a vote on the budget for other month we can make a decision about what the metrics will be. this is a draft at the top of it. it's framework to begin with for discussions to work with the department on that. we don't have the board doesn't have another chance on the reserve really after july 19th, that say clear deadline for us to work on. >> are you working with the department in terms of metrics? >> i shared that with the department. i e-mailed deputy chief sinus and acting chief

with the president commission as well so we can schedule discussions for whoever wants to take part of the discussion certainly the police department need toss be part of the mix. >> go ahead. >> supervisor avalos do you have a history of using these types of reserve with other first responder departments such as the fire department and the like? >> um, i believe we may have done some with the fossil fueir department before nothing on this magnitude they're common with what we do with the public utilities commission 1 that has the authority to make sure we're receiving drinking water and handle major construction

happening between here and yosemite with 2.2 million years it's a tool we see progress on things we expect the departments to carey out. >> thank you. >> i have a question. there's a real concern in certain communities of the property crime has gone up. partly in your district and i'm wondering how do we respond since this 2 hundred million impacts personnel and we're trying to bring up our numbers in the police department how do rerespond to those communities saying we can't release these funds until we have met all of these? i can see how we can be working on these things because these are extremely important issue. >> can i interrupt you. this is public comment we can ask a follow up question we're going oto have a presentation and

people that have come to speak on the items on the agenda it sounds like it needs to be asap given the time frame. >> next week? this does not cut funds to the department we will make sure we get to the 1971 close to the end of the fiscal years 16/17. >> we will see you july 6th. >> i have to go early on july 6th. >> we're in public comment on items 1-d welcome mr. washington. >> welcome. first i want to commend this commission this is the first time i have been here since mario woods and protesters i studied outside i see the

process and the progress what is going on. i can say another thing i'm very impressed i didn't come here to impress you i came to impress ou you on a situation in the western addition what i came is the western station i don't know the captain i have been there for a while i don't know him i heard he's jj or something i can't understand that philosophy and i hear the cpap i don't know. let me get back to the issue this is a new era and we don't have time for errors i'm impressed with the commander getting up here talking. commissioner how are you doing marshall? state of the fill moore is what i'm ready to

do i'm the migration tsar with the black population going down. i'm the fill moore corridor ambassador -- i need help with the northern station where is the captain? i need to see him right away i got something to say. i'm ace on the case but you are doing a wonderful job president and the rest of you commissioners i'm so impressed i don't know what to say. >> i don't what to say either we get a lot of that ace. deputy chief who is the that? >> john jay morino (speaking off the mic). next speaker. good evening sir welcome. >> so here we are 5 minutes

after 5 that means we're just that much closer to that place called heaven. i am that i am as almighty before me therefore who would dare to stand or speak against me. here i am in this room on both sides with mentally ill people. we talk about mental illness as a definition people hoping to do the same thing over and over again with a different result if that isn't true with both of you i don't know what is. we know gandhi jfk that led with passion and spiritualality this time it's going to have to be hearts that are true with a righteous uprising the they it's

not pleasures of the flesh and blood but the prince of darkness to my friends look up tell thee [inaudible] orlando was a red flag with an agenda there were 4 shooters. there is a situation going on the between 5th. a big pride event and protest against coal oakland city hall so you are invited many fact it's not a request or demand but a command from those whose hearts are true from almighty to join at the oakland city hall. all warriors and issues to take the port and shut down the entire west coast

until all these [inaudible] -- >> thank you sir. >> (speaking off the mic). >> thank you sir. that's your 2 minutes. thank you sir. >> (speaking off the mic). >> good evening collide. -- >> good evening clyde. >> you have been through this a few times aren't you? first of all i don't like the name acting chief. acting chief tony is the man. the acting term is not happening. let's make that

permanent. he's a good guy. tony is a good guy. next item a and b i would like to talk directly to mrs. hicks the occ budget should not be controlled by the police department it's a separate entity it's a conflict of interest just by the paragraph who should control our budget it's not the police department her department is the watchdog it's inherently incorrect. maybe the da should control the budget but the police department. >> the police department does not control our budget. she controls our budget. >> yeah but her budget comes out of the police department. >> no.

>> go ahead clyde. >> my bad. she has her own budget? my bad i'm out of her. >> thanks. clyde. >> good evening commissioners with regards to the safety during the pride events i hope there is not a huge military presence of police i don't want to see swat teams or snipers on the rooftops i don't want to see cops in full drag of her guns etcetera that is not pride. that is not pride as all. that is something very different and military police force a lot of us are not looking to have. with regard to supervisors avalos proposal of the reserve he got strong support from the community on monday a lot of

people showed up to testify strongly for the reserve. we have witnessed years and years with a police reform that has gone nowhere in circles etcetera time to have a stick as well as the carrots. i will keep it short and hope to give you comment on the next item . >> thank you. next speaker. >> good evening mr. miller welcome. >> good evening commission wanted to begin with the resolution to 2 hundred million dollars of the sfpd budget in the last 4 year the sfpd budget was augmented by 100 million dollars and 23 people have been killed many cases are under

investigation for malfeasance i'm ill tonight i will be stating for this whole meeting i wanted to speak on the use of force policy. the fact of the matter is it's good thing minimal use of force is in there. the fact that it's subject to feasibility undermines the purpose of minimal version two a we're not dealing with a reasonable body of people with feasibility and reasonability. they talk about they use ridiculous examples like a terrorist jumping into cars there is no president established that some hard core da will go after cops for terrorists we're talking about jessica neil son. it's bad faith

bargaining that the people's livings and safety is subject to mmb requirements it's like me a plumber going to a meeting with a general foreman whether i should be able to beat up electricians -- [inaudible] we demand the right to determine our community and safety and well-being not you all. >> thank you. next speaker. >> good evening crisis intervention team trainer and working member i wanted to talk about make cit more than just

training members of the group myself and others got to meet with our new chief on june third to talk about cit to talk about the citvgo and how to implement it beyond training 1 of the things we're asking for in djo we will get to look at soon hopefully the 20th is the assignment of liaisons from 10 per stations 2 per sergeant level that will liaison with our working group what they can do are several things they can bring the working groups critical incidence discussed if you think about it. critical incidence brought to a community runned working group they can serve as the basis for roll playing in our training but they can provide the opportunity for citizens to give feedback on how

they're handling mental crisis incidence they will be able to do role call at the trainings and build the cit teams that will have 20 or 30 more individuals trained per station they will help implement cit in all stations it's unprecedented and we're hoping for your commission support. this is codified in our citdgo chief chaplain was receptive we didn't hear no or push back from him. we're hoping our proposals will be adopted and i think we have more positive future to look forward to. that's all. to be continued. >> thank you for countless hours or volunteer for this cause.

neek speaker? good evening more. welcome. >> 40% of the police business is with mentally challenged folks the cit teams need to be with the police in such numbers that they can handle 40% of this. they need to be equal to the police. they don't need to be trainees they need to be trained flt but they need to be on the streets. they need to be part of the team. i believe that's the weakest part right now. we want the police to have the braun to control the street. we need them to have some control restraint but we need the teams out on the streets to handle and take these poor people that are a little bit off having a bad day whether it's hospital or safe rooms and

a team how much can we expect a team to stay with an individual? 3 minutes? 10 minutes? 3 hours to get that individual through that intervention? can they handle 4 a night? that would make 10 teams. we need a substantial increase in employment of teams themselves they can blend in with the police. that can be their first call sending in dr. well-being meaning sending in a team i would like to see that happen i will bring up in public comment i would like the police not to wear gun belts . >> thank you sir. next speaker good evening welcome. >> this is my first time here thank you so much for having this. the fact that we're having this meeting right now about

police reform shows the level of income tense the city is do ipi i was walking my dog without a leash a cop yelled at me from the street corner i had no idea i didn't bother to look behind me people yell things all the time to me on the street next the cop is telling me i'm being detained for reasons i didn't know. to get out of the car double parked it shows the lack of what do you call restraint for police to really do their jobs properly for them to. for

them to keep killing people on the streets for silly things the police is here to project and serve. we all can agree on that. we don't want people to kill us i don't understand why there is still a reform going on when we know people are being killed and lives are being lost there is a reform we know this. we need to move forward from this reform. we know the police needs to have better training in addressing our citizens and not really -- and have the police be responsible for their own actions if they do something illegal like killing another human being. >> thank you for your comments next speaker. good evening and welcome. >> my name is linda i'm here on

behalf of police chief and the community. how many part do we have in hiring a new chief? i say that because this chief he knows -- not real chief but you know his background this and that oakland has so many police chief not knowing what is going on. when the police is on the streets and stuff everybody is not out there they are out there by they self when they do what they do by they self. nobody knows until they have a picture or something that's why i go back to say, how much do the community have into hiring the new police chief i would like to hire on the community if we can be a part of it because like i said when i left here from city

college it had been on my mind i'm selling all my visions and dreams to the police chief come in and don't know what the hell i am and don't know what happened on this you got to go back and repeat what are you saying this police chief acting now he knows some faces he is comfortable with what is going on. i feel a new 1 coming in what is his background they can come in and dot same thing we don't want to be like oakland that is crazy all of the chiefs coming in and out. that is crazy because they didn't have no community voices in that. that is bad. i think hiring new police chief not on my watch now that started had that been prior that wouldn't happen you keep opening the door to people that

want a job that is getting bad. >> linda i agree we will talk about that item n4 with the police chief we will talk about that. thank you for your comments good evening. >> good evening. i'm here because of this article in the examiner. many and many citizens are troubled about this news story appeared in the examiner yesterday 1 of our deputy chief being friends on facebook with an under age prostitute education does not warrant decision making skills if he gets off easy as a police

commission of the police force will further disrespect women. this mistake cannot be at a high ranking member of our performance that excels beyond your department's guide license and policies opposition will be held accountable for inappropriate conduct. this is an example. if you you look at the facebook picture of this female should have made any police officer hit the unaccept button. deputy chief has concluded with a snapshot of his facebook page that is not concluded in 2 weeks how can internal fairs be internal that quickly did he submit personal cell phones there is no contact

with this young ladies as a mother with daughters find his acts dispickable. if you want us toespicable. if you want us to -- we can't have a police department culture like a macho or frat house. >> thank you. we will ask you to respond when we're done with public comment. next speaker? >> good evening. welcome. >> i would like to caution us against diversity f you look at

oakland there is diversity in that police department i would caution you about that. this is challenging you i'm sure you have seen this from poa . >> i can't see that. the screens are not working. >> turn it on. >> my time is running. >> keep going. >> we don't need the citizens complaint committee team we passed 4 tests 1 the officers were doing the job he's talking about recent killings still being investigated the 2 the way they were caught 3 issued the tools to them and following orders he challenges you and me everybody else calling us local minority of non-city residents last study i saw showed 25% of

san francisco police officers live in the city. who are the outside agitators this is a culture of the union i have belonged to 6 unions i'm a strong advocate of unions when the culture of unions is controlled it looks like this where is the diversity when the officers get out of their field training 16 weeks then they go to union training this is how we do it you have been in unions i have too. you know the union culture. so let's think about who is messing with us. last 9 seconds all cities are ahead of us this principle police should intervene when officers intervene on useful force not just a pledge not on my watch

but in prisons think of me -- (speaking off the mic). >> thank you sir. next speaker? good evening. welcome sir. >> my name is daryl rogers i'm sure you all know me. i'm a native san francisco i'm 70 years old i charge this board to do the next right thing. in this particular instance i don't think training is a problem because 1 of the officers did report a murder that happened south of market where a knife was being used and 2 officers encountered the 2 suspects that just murdered someone and were able to disarm that person would killing them. they were able to

disarm both people without killing them. both people are now eligible to go through the process of their due process of law. unfortunately, the people i'm representing don't have that luxury. they cannot go through due process. the police themselves for this proposal of holding back the 200 million dollars as a community member that money would be better served if we use the 200 million dollars to solve the homeless problem in the city if we take those funds and use them to solve that problem then we won't need the additional police officer s thank you. >> thank you mr. rogers any

further comment on item 1a-d. hearing or seeing none, it is closed. what can you say about this time about that. >> department is aware the commissioner we're looking into it we have spoken to deputy deputy chief he has provided us with information and whoosh!ing looking into that. >> okay. with that sergeant call the next line force policy pursuant to charter, meyers-milias-brown act, and mou with the police officers association (discussio (discussion). >> thank you good evening. director callahan. i think it was commissioner hwang prior to us voting on which policy to the

meet and confer process that the public get a briefing from the department of human resources in advance to get a sense what the limitations and opportunity for process is. so the director callahan is here to give us a sense of all that. thank you welcome. >> thank you president loftus commission director hicks. i think as you know. the department of human resources has charter for meet and confer for negotiations in the city of san francisco. bear with me if i have repeated what you have heard but with the public i would be more comprehensive the mires milly brown act part of the california government code requires cities county and special districts to comply with

a number of of rules which are -- the law basically mirrored the labor ne goegs actions act that is all within the scope of bargaining. issues that fall within the scope of bargaining things that effect terms and conditions of employment -- wages hours term etcetera and includes safety to the extent that policies that the department adopts impact officer safety the city would have an obligation to meet and confer in good faith to reach an agreement. this is consistent with our san francisco charter as well. in the event issues are identified that fall within the

scope of negotiations synonymous with meet and confer. we can do it expeditiously. and we must exchange proposals and seek to understand we don't have to agree to anything in particular we have to engage in a good faith process. when it appears we're not going to be able to reach an agreement 1 would typically declare impasse and followed in the scope of the negotiation the union can move those 2 arbitration the structure of our charter. the way it implements the mires mills brown act we can't meet and confer the impasse and impose what we want to do we go to arbitration and neutral will hear the case of the party and

make a binding determination that is a lengthy process the beth thing is to attempt to reach an agreement my minimal review of the drafts of the policy to this point understanding that the commissioner has yet to meet and confer shows there are plenty of issues within the scope of bargaining issues of policy statements their fundamental management rights however it is our obligation when the union identifies claim fall within bargaining we have to find out why they make their own assessment in the 6 of the 36 inch baton some of you are familiar with we are telling you we do not believe all the things tell us the scope of bargaining

and going to arbitration we could end up in litigation at that point. so the thing to keep in mind we can't rush the process with the ideal we're going to adopt it by a certain date it's going to depend on how many issues are in dispute and whether we have a legal dispute whether certain of the issues in dispute are suggest to the process. what we typically will do in these cases is meet with the union and identify the areas in dispute and reserve our position whether they're within scope and figure out where the variances lie. the department of human resources --

we have employment resource manager coming to the debates she will be getting direction from commission to bring back she believes the commission would find acceptable of course the final in the same way that the union has to ratify an agreement that it's negotiating team brings back what your team brings back to the commission will be subject to approval we want to bring you something you agree to but may guess wrong or voting process we won't know for sure ultimately it's the commission's decision on any agreement we reach that is a summary of the process we do have meeting scheduled in addition with a use of force policy we have the first session

scheduled with the poa on july 19th >> i have to ask you this question i find myself with imposing laws i did not make. sunshine brown act my dudy is to impose them we want you to be here to explain with mmba or charter if someone doesn't like these are the rules we're supposed to follow what is the resource? if it's mmba state law. we have 4 charter amendments on the ballot if they're concerns about what the governing rules are and want to change them those are the rules as they're currently situated i wanted us to be clear on that. it's a state law applies to cities county and districts so that is the scenario we have to

operate under the san francisco charter goes farther than the state law we have binding arbitration and that is adopted by the voters in i think historically because the vote rs did not want to have strikes we're going to have arbitration instead of strikes . >> for public safety seccer employees we also have it for miss miss but fcellaneous but f >> we're bound by law and charter i appreciate you saying

what people can do about it because what can and can't be done by us and a great example is the proposition b which we passed to allow the occ to investigate people got a charter changed we're bound by the processes i think that's a great explanation of not only what those are but what are covered and not covered under the meet and confer agreement with the pa thank you. >> my pleasure. director callahan this question took into consideration where you do have room is the policy adopted by this commission it is your job (audio not working) i don't think that's me. hello

(disruption to the audio). >> somebody smartly cut my mic i will use this 1. you are the commission and ambassador negotiation in this process by design we're supposed to be reasonable minded folks that disagree you are trying to get something generally accepted to us everything is on the table starting with the process absence of agreement what is going to be bargained or not can you talk about that? >> yes. speaking about the fundamental issue we're dealing with what is the scope of representation an example i

would use is the sanctity of life. that is our pollee and that itself does not fall within the scope of bargaining it does not impact officer to make that statement. nor the conditions of employment the doa has an alternate view if they're unable to resolve that we would be able to refuse to submit that to arbitration. the best thing to do if it can be done is reach an agreement we will be able to move forward more rapidly a skilled negotiator will identify the areas of dispute and the areas not in dispute as to the scope of bargaining and whether we disagree they would have to go arbitration is there

something they can live with that would meet with the commission's objective and prevent us from going to mitigation. is that helpful. >> commissioner hwang. >> is it on? hello. i would thank you for that that is helpful. i have a concerns with someone that is not a subject expert there is a lot of stuff that wasn't aware of changes and how things worked that is my concern and my other concern with respect to the body cameras it seems like something that didn't effect the terms of employment it was a quasi

investigation state with lybarger with investigation issue i don't want to revisit that i will talk to you about that after. there has been some negotiation with police officer association and stakeholders they have come to see agreement that the poa would be binding and they would go to meet and confer issues they agreed upon i wanted you to talk about how that could be implemented . >> i became aware this was a possibility this afternoon. that is good news anything that will narrow the zone of of a disagreement potentially, if there is an agreement the parties in this case being the police commission and poa can agree that everything but if

they can parse the policy and identify only a couple issues in dispute we could execute an agreement as to the rest and move forward that is not in disbutte with a shorter list of items we could argue about and hopefully reach agreement on by talking about impasse resolution i don't say we expect not to reach an agreement we would then work on those issues some we disagree within the scope of bargaining and some we might agree. another comment is if it creates new grounds for discipline. that had to do with the likelihood of discipline for police officers that's why we ended up talking about that felt within scope. >> i don't want to belaborer the old point in case the

commissioner is asked on something tonight. it's fortunate you are here is there something you need to do tonight if there is that sort of agreement where you put something formal on the record to narrow those issues . >> if we get to the point on the next item there are things i will ask any representative on the record on the department of human resources so we have that locked in to make a vote in anticipation of that i got the vote of directors from commission callahan. >> thank you very much. >> commissioner dejesus. >> i'm on the same vein with commissioner hwang here let me start over you do labor negotiations i'm concerned with that matter here for this particular item going to meet

and confer it's a public policy that is new. in 21st century policing it's in the report that came out march 16 it sounds like our word snipping a lot of the words we have been arguing over are particular. we have been fighting over mead versus imminent and reasonable i was disappointed when it came back on the body cameras brief statement i have no idea what that was. we worked with community members to work with this that we agreed on and changed. so i'm worried about turning this over to labor

negotiator public policy a new subject matter i'm concerned about that. i think this something hears arbitration you say the vote will get tied up we need a stand for important language that has what we want and keeps the transparency and duties and philosophy we want. let them go to arbitration and let gate it that's on them we're trying to put forward a policy for this city that will not be touched another 20 years so we want to get it right. i want to caution the commission we need more time if there is significant changes we can't take it lightly a word change will be a significant change every word in here is selected carefully and agreed upon hopefully with consensus with

the community and poa those are my comments i know you guys are good at what he does but this is an appreciation baby we need to take care of here. >> i appreciate your comments and absolutely. i will note that our negotiator is lawana press son who has experience in police negotiation plenty of it and mr. grant moved to the poc we have to finish the body worn cameras i'm sure you recognize the difficulty of finding 1 compromise. it's not an agreement if we can't get anybody to agree to it. and we have to rely on the board saying yes or no we will bring you the best thing we can get and will you say it's good enough or not.

we will get direction from you we can't have a meeting for every word we're going have to get our direction and bring it to you this is the right direction or vote it down and go back. if you are concerned about expertise the arbitrators selected are not police experts they're people like me retired. >> have you retired. >> i have not what i meant was people who do the kind of work i do and then retire do labor arbitrary or union representative or labor lawyers they're not police experts our best shot at keeping people experts in the process is to have an engaged police commission from the department who can help us. >> that is the next point. can we hook you up with experts you

can call or talk to or do you have to go just through us you should have that resource available and you can say this is going to be a significant change or not we have people working with that are subject matters experts on this we have been reliance on it . >> if the commission were to say we deputize the direction for the negotiator to person x we would get direction from that person i don't think you have done that. >> that is something to think about. >> i think we always -- i finished bargaining the nurses contract i don't know everything about a hospital but we rely on people who are knowledgeable in the department and legal council and what we know about negotiation to have a good outcome for the parties . >> t we suggest someone to you

as the contact person for you, that would work right? >> person off or on the commission. >> that is up to the commission. >> that is good to know. i think the way this is done with the level of legal matter that have weighed in for all the sides there is careful understanding of the words and locking those in would alleviate understanding the difference between 2 words you are an negotiator have to worry about specific areas so it's good we can monitor and give that feedback thank you for your comments commissioner dejesus. any questions from callahan? you are relevant to every item on the agenda tonight. thank you director. we're going to take public comment on item 3 then move into

our discussion for the use of force thank you everyone -- sorry public comment on item 2. mr. slosor. almost. >> i have given myself a cram course in labor law in preparation for this and i was very heartened by mrs. callahan said on 2 grounds i was going to preach to you, but she's backing me up. the first thing is you don't have a duty to bargain on fundamental policy decisions the leading san jose case is use of force. those kinds of issues you have to balance the community the police public safety are not meant for labor negotiations you can choose to do it, if you choose to do it you are making a mrit call decision the public should know about that and hear from them. i hear from

mrs. callahan she has looked at it she sees many issues not working conditions under the labor law i will list some of them you haven't adopted a policy yet minimal versus reasonable force. that should not be onnal bargaining table prohibits restraints that should not be on the bargaining table. when a police officer can shoot as a vehicle should not be on the bargaining table. shall versus should which we spent god knows how long debating is an important issue shouldn't be on the bargaining table the second thing i heard that is heartening to me i couldn't figure out you are the client. therefore, you after you pass a good policy which i'm sure you are going to do. you have a duty to be

vigilant in explaining what happens i got this with the body cameras to hr and came back a couple of you were surprised that shouldn't happen you shouldn't be surprised this is your policy fight for it. >> thank you. next weeker welcome back. >> thank you. david carlos a. the process is bad it's terrible. poa dropped a version 2b a due days ago which say flaming red torch to all of us working on police reform for quite a while now. now we have version 3 which is apparently being negotiated this afternoon you are going to vote on it without the community having any chance to have an input that is a process that is real

literable. it's it is contemn tuous of the community ov all of the people working in the justi justice commission justice etcetera you need to postpone this for the poa is going to give you a jie gantin-- you nee little bit stiffer of spines up here. you need to determine

which of the issues you have to go to meet and confer on and then just go. go with some force go with some real analysis of what is happening here. the language as dejesus said is important. every single word is xhurnt. the community wants time to look at this to digest it and are you going to have very pissed off people if this goes forward today.community. the co time to look at this to digest it and are you going to have very pissed off people if this goes forward today. >> next speaker . >> quick comment on that. we got this hot off the press i think things are moved around we haven't had an opportunity to look at them the things are there they're just moved around i do know where you are coming from and agree with most of that we may need more time. >> next speaker.

>> i'm daryl rogers i need to remind you we're standing on the press p preface of history. people back here are trying to change every word we fought for are not trying to protect the public. as public serve ants ant to protec we want since it is effecting

the public at this time we're sick and tired of all the bull shit. it's time to real change. not saying we read what they said and we disagree with everything so we're changing it back to what it was. that's not going to work. it's truly not going to work. this is time for you to step out and the do the right thing forget about position, forget about who you might step on their toes and dot thing the public is demanding rather than what somebody who has real lly the only thing we have in mind is we can get rid of them next week. that is not working. >> thank you sir next speaker. >> good evening almost mr mr. lindo. >> this is the meet and confer

process not the use of force policy. >> right. >> the poa is not an official union sanctioned by uco to give them the authority to have free reign to have discussion and input on labor discussions is perhaps over stepping the authority they should have. secondly, you are a member of the bar as a lawyer. the bar doesn't come and represent you when they ask you to be fired or resigned there are bar association just like the poa's police officers association i would like us to look into that and examine if perhaps the poa is stepping over the boundaries that should be set very clearly on the authority that i believe

it should be raised here we should have lawyers on the discussion. my understanding is the poa in this city is greater than the in this county allows the police chief to have. i have thirty-seconds last. the last 1 is similar to what aclu has mentioned they should not have authority to speak on labor matters dealing with protocol that is your job, that is the job of the police department commandment it's not the job of the poa representative to say i want my officers to act a certain way. no. my job is to make sure my officers get a certain raise or pay but not serving the community. >> thank you. next speaker?

>> before you put the timer on it you can ask mrs. callahan there's a distinction between the association when she comes back up she can ask that question. go ahead. next speaker. >> i can speak too. i want to talk about cod rroded restraint it shouldn't be an option at all. this is a restraint to deprive of oxygen this shouldn't be used to subdue those in custody because it's been proved to be a deadly force nothing wrong with restraint if it's

done properly most deaths occur when the restraint is done properly or negotiate. you are thinking there won't be death with proper training even with so-called proper training it turns into a choke hold resulting in permanent injury and death. who will be restrained? those in custody those that don't have serious harm from the officer people will die if the poa has it's way and you approve the use of this restraint. 1 men in san diego died after the officer applied the restraint continuously for 5 minutes fred new york man died of affix yeah because of restraint in los angeles 16 people died in cases in which the restraint was used in san

diego 16 year old john hamilton 31 year old. mental illness dead from use of restraint. that's why the new york denied these restraints deeming them lethal medical experts agree there are risk groups that should never have the restraint applied -- (speaking off the mic). >> thank you next speaker. welcome back. >> hi i will try to be quick then i will hand you my handouts. 3 parts to use of force before, during, and after. before -- >> we will do use of force next.

this is about the presentation meet and confer. >> any other comments? okay public comment is now closed. mr. pits come on up. >> the countless shootings of the people 1 in every 2-and-a-half months it's ridiculous at this point they have done monthing about the racist text message scandals we have other scandals with the under age prostitutes they're

doing very little about police brutality in the city and county of san francisco and we're supposed to trust that they're going to act with integrity. regard i regardi regarding use of force policies and procedures and use of body camera and tasers we're at this point you are trying to negotiate with people who refuse to be accountable and act with integrity. they will go at the last minute shove legislation through to do what they want and negate everything the community has requested for several months many a background. it's really

like a clan des dined badestine deal. to run the county of san francisco. >> thank you. any other public comment? hearing none public is clos closed. we will close the line item. commissioner dejesus would like director callahan to respond to that. >> yes nikki callahan again with regard to the comments made as to the poa status the law and civil service which recognizes no disbased on the title association for example

california teacher and nurses association they're unions so there is no distinction in that regard they're recognized as the exclusive representative for within the city's obligated deal with terms and conditions of the employment. it is correct we don't have to bargain with the union about policy matters i tried to make that clear earlier there is a disagreement as to whether something is policy and whether it has an impact on discipline or safety that's where if we get into trouble and dispute with the union that's where it will fall. we do not intent on giving away fundamental management rights through the mar beganing process the pcht oa has a status to speak to you about it's policy views in a public forum but we

don't meet and confer about this. >> thank you director cal lan. sergeant call the next line department to use in meeting and conferring with the san francisco police officers association and department of human resources (action). >> thank you everyone. i know so many people want to be heard on this. i wanted to be clear about the process that got us up to here for now. for everybody that is here, i will go back to the first time we discussed this is on des 9th of 2015 it was a week after the shooting death of mario woods at the direction of this commission we reopened the dgo that had to do with officers use of force that is 5.01 use of force and 5.02 use of firearms we spent january working with

community safety ininterns young people that come from the violent neighborhoods who partners with us in the fall to create a series of community conversations where we put up what the existing rules were we did that on january twenty-first, 26 and january 27th. at 2 lowations we were in tenderloin, sunset and bay view and the western addition. we put together a stakeholder working group which is modelled after body cameras we got feedback from the san francisco police association the pride alliance which is a group of police officers that represent the lgbt community officers justice the officers for citizen complaints for homelessness that was particularly represented from the mental health partners and

the homeless population we invited them to a stakeholder group in addition the crisis intervention team working group which have worked on our crisis intervention team on this. the san francisco attorney's office declined to participate there is from a blue ribbon panel. the bar of san francisco the aclu we have gotten through this process since it's a public and transparent process have gotten through e-mail and many of you have made comments made that are incorporated through the community members when we use this word stakeholders we hoped to get them better throughout the process. in addition we had a serious of meetings among the stakeholders there were meetings in february march there was 1

meeting 2 more meetings requested we had 2 more meetings. we got final comments back in early may. through this process the dodepartment of justice we will move up in advance and give you back what you already have with that process we incorporated feedback from the department of justice that included subject matters experts across the country that had use of force process that were progressive we can learn from. we took that amount of feedback also included that had a conversation in the commission 1 of the pieces of feedback we got from doj was having 3 policies when you can have 1 over complicated things so the macro feedback from the department of justice if you

want a successful use of force do not make it overly complicated it's not worth the paper it's written on if the officers don't understand it. a lot of the feedback we got is what the format is and how clear we were to officers. we took the feedback there is a sub commission of commissioner dejesus and commissioner mazzucco and myself and brought them back to the commission. we had 2 public hearing to get additional feedback from the public. i just want to say, we're at the end of what has been i believe an incredibly thoughtful and thorough process. i say that for a very specific reason i believe if you have been following this on any level what you hear us discuss tonight there are not new conserve balls been thrown we have discussed the issues and discussed them. i think to commissioner dejesus's point things have been moved around there are some we have to

make a decision on tonight we're going to do that you will have a chance to do that before we make the final decision absent 1 piece of comment we got from last public comment last week that might be new to some of you many of you issues here throughout this chausive process i took the time to explain to everybody we have gotten significant feedback i'm you'ding my binder as a visual aid. this is 1 of the binders. i say all that to say here we are now. the documents of this commission has a choice with are as follows. there is a virgs 1 and 2 as many folks know. -- version 1 and version 2. we went to public meetings about. as we want to have happen people said i want to make that version better. then we got version 2a and version 2 b. version 2a was

supported by the community stakeholders and version 2b was presented to us last friday by representatives of the police officers association with that as their version of how to improve it from their perspective. this commission has an option of considering version 1, version 2, version 2a, version 2b and and we learned through the process of the sub committee meeting there was effort to see additional common ground between the community groups represented there and the police officer association. i want to say this in terms of a goal a lot has been discussed about people taking a stand and the role of this commission i want to say from my perspective i couldn't agree more. the people of san francisco demanded

we make meaningful change. they have demanded that that change is sustainable. they have demanded that this results in real results for everybody and what that means is the more people who agree with us, if we spent 6 moss finding common ground and it's good common ground i'm not going to be 1 that says something is wrong that might be a signal something is right. just by the idea we have somehow in san francisco for civil libertarians and public defenders and police officers to ground something is a sign of our strength not of our weakness. i'm going to ask an off to this commission we start off given there is version 3 that we're least familiar with, i would invite sandra

marian from the citizen's complaints to hear from that. and the police officers association and we have questions for that person and get a chance to understand this version as we move forward in this discussion. >> can i clarify something? >> sure. >> on friday the poa gave us a 68 page draft i was part of the subommi cee i want to thank the poa and the bar association to come together. i know you met monday, tuesday, friday i know you met late into the night unfortunately i did not receive this draft until 5 o'clock today i haven't had a chance to look through it i am looking forward to the consensus you have reached the changes you have made i'm with the public i'm uncomfortable not having time to read and examine it and feel

comfortable about it i'm looking forward to hearing what you have to say you have been working on on it. since 4 o'clock today. >> welcome up mrs. marian. >> good evening commission public stakeholders chief director hicks i'm honors to be a part of this. it is a long complicated process i think necessity is the mother of invention i'm amazed how we keep reinventing ourselves i never thought friday to midnight last night we would be coming together talking about issues and putting forward lots of ideas i was part of the version 2a and working on version 3 it's

a combination of many different things all of these are the best thinking that is what is amazing about the process julie tran is a part of the last few days of the negotiation and the poa be willing to sit down look at where are the common ground? what are the things we want to improve? where are the differences? with version 3 sorry it's late in coming there are things that are crossed out people can go through to work through all the parts i'm happy to answer questions about all that. i can give you broad pieces everything you see that is yellow those are the areas we sat down and said what do we agree to disagree on. there are items we have been talking about for a long time that different

community stakeholderses our agency we feel we got 1 position and the poa has a different position. those are in yellow and it's clear. there is a version 3 at the end the poa arguments and the other documents are there. >> what is in yellow is what we cannot agree on. >> we agree to disagree the big issues are shooting at cars for quite some time we have shooting at cars we have corroded restraint that is another huge issue the other areas are the penal code session -- section. >> (speaking off the mic). >> i have broken down there are 12 areas the commission will have to make a decision on this.

for the community members watching this document -- not everything is agreed upon the areas agreed upon are agreed upon there are open issues for the commission to make a decision on tonight. there are 12 of them. if we walk through them systematically, you will be able to be aided in your vote. >> i don't know what is agreed upon. >> my apologize if we had more time we would have done something that explains more we can come together. in terms of version 3 you are seeing. any time anything that has been crossed out it has -- that is language in previous versions and it's been reworked. the text

in blue or black, that is text the poa, our agency and julie tran have agreed to. this is language that we negotiated this is agreeable to us. of course the commission decides it's part of the discussion we said we could -- this is the language we can live with. these are the standards these are the words. shall you will see shall throughout the document. because the poa agreed the principles we're talking about are mandatory shall throughout. the poa said yes we agree with immediate we got a definition we all agree with. the that the oakland police department agreed with that is an area we have been able to sit down and go yes we're on the same page with

immediate versus imminent. other aspects with the escalation we agree that is a centerpiece of this policy there are particular components and mandatory requirements and that is shall. what officers need to do when they can when it's fooiezable tt is a huge component. >> i see minimal in 2a can we talk about that. >> with minimal force that is deaf situation of 2a if you look at the minimal amount of force necessary page 4 that is a deaf situation we agreed to. the lowest level of force within the range of reasonable force that is necessary to effect an arrest of lawful objection without increase risk to others we have a key part of the policy is to strive for minimal force so that is an essential part. if you

look at language in 2a and here there has been compromise how some of how it's placed some of the description but it's certainly is a component of this version 3. >> may i ask a question? >> yes. >> from a percentage standpoint looking at had document 50% agreed upon 80%? if you give an estimate a percentage i know there are 12 items if you could categorize it in that way for me? >> from my perspective in a maefrjt of places we're on the same page i'm balancing it out with a desire to get policy and training in place. again i'm

invested in us having the best policy and the most accountability it's something i feel positive about there is plenty of room i wish for other parts to be different but it's something i feel positive about. 1 thing we talked about this from the beginning the need to collect data so you know what force has been used so you know what is working and what is not. here's a vast improvement the department has agreed and moving forward with data collection with transparency and accountability lit be reported on and the website in the process the language is strong to see the ke tail we have come a long way to have that front and center. it requires when officers do use force and the responsibilities part of that checklist officers have to

account for if they escalated and deescalated and why not there is deescalation in the center and accountability throughout. when you have language like shall and a way to evaluate afterwards those are components of a good policy. >> the word majority comforts me there are a minority of items that have to been fleshed out here let me just say something -- i'm not sure. was this added the section on 3b on use of force evaluation about the supreme court was that added in. is that the original document or added in by this new document. >> 2a the version you saw last week if you look at what is red

beneath it that has been stricken there is language explaining corner it has been redone some of the language is different. but most certainly gram v conner has been in the policy. >> i like that language a lot better. i thought that was a vast improvement when it comes to the whole institutional standard and community standard around protection of the officer that was something that is much better before we get to what we don't agree on i want to complement you on that. >> 1 thing that is clear is the standard here is greater than the constitutional standard we talked about how we want a higher standard that is stated.

i noi about the policy statement. there is concerns about that word. we worked with language the department safeguarding the life dig nigh knee and liberty of all persons. >> mrs. marian 1 question came up in public comment this commission faefr favors the shall but it is when feedable 3 did not take a departure from that but 3a -- is that a fair statement. >> exactly. >> okay. colleagues i'm going to run through then we're going to take a break. i understand members of the commission need to take a break and make sure they have a chance to review this document completely so we

will do that. 1 thing i wanted to flag for my fellow commissioners i have -- if you go through this document during the break these would not be new issues it would be an insult to your intelligent to metabolize issues you have never heard of but this is issues in multiple hearings you will see on page 7, 9, 11, 12, 13, 17 corroded is dealt with in a number of pages everything in yellow is something i will be able to walk us through what the issues are. we can ask the subject matter expert on both sides we want to hear from lieutenant nevin we will ask the commissioners after break. if you are looking during

the break and people here in the hearing room, there are color copies this is the sausage making of policy making you see the strike out the words are there before somebody said take them out f it's highlighted in yellow that's a cue to this commission we have to make a decision there was not consensus what that also means is everything else you will see what the language change from. that is an agreement between mrs. marian representatives from the poa and bar association is that fair? >> yes it is. >> with that. let's take a 20 minute break and we will endeavor to start 10 minutes to 9. i recess). >> commissioner we're back on the record and back in session can you please take your seats?

>> commissioner items 3? thank you. >> okay colleagues i apologize eendeavors to be back with 10 minutes till we're right here at 9 o'clock commissioner needed more time thank you again for everyone's patiences making sure we had a chance to review number 3 i would like mrs. marianne for number 3 and invite nevin to be available for the commission and walk us through the perspective the value of the version 3. welcome lieutenant nevinevin.

>> thank you. first i would like to say the poa has been in this process this entire time cooperative we have been spent a lot of time looking at the draft that have changed over the months we have met with president loftus with the different community stakeholders groups there are a lot of those folks in the room behind me. you can ask them, i think they would probably tell you while we were participants in this group, we i believe came to that certainly looking at it in the lens of what we feel can be best for our membership that is the police officers working on the street right now, this is written for. but we also came there with the idea we wanted to hear what

others had to say we work on the whole patrol sea you are doing is from 1995. that's when i entered the police department that was a long time ago. there have been a lot of things that happened within the law in the 9th. circuit i'm aware of that as a person taught for some time when i was a sergeant that requires us to have this discussion to see what needs to be improved of the policy. so i just want to make it clear for you folks and the audience watching this, our efforts to this point have been cooperative at the ini have gaegs of commissioner dejesus and commissioner loftus the other day which was a fantastic suggestion is there any way we can meet with stakeholders groups and see if we can try to

at least iron out language we can find agreement on. the reason for that is is when you all are going to look at this and go through the policy if there is areas of agreement, then that should mean later on it's not something the poa is concerned about. the sections we had this agreement it was not -- we agreed to disagree which you will find in yellow which i think dr. marshall asked what is the percentage of that? i think it's close to 80-90% hoensly in terms of what we thought we were able to work with. so i appreciate the meeting last friday we spent a lot of time and hours folks that worked for you director we think we came up

with something that you should considering in version 3. i will say 1 last thing. there is a n sentence here when it talks about safeguarding human life and cig anity -- dignity. i started it -- [reading] who expect them to exercise that authority judiciously and respect for human rights, dignity and life . i believe that to my core. so i'm happy to answer any questions you have regarding this, if i can be of assistance i also have a gentlemen here we did consulting with who was helpful in this process as well and we're available to answer questions if you want to talk

about some of the marks in yellow we can do that if you so desire. >> we can do that now. i want to ask threshold questions. 1 is you heard from nikki callahan we discussed this on friday part of the procedural issue with body cameras, there say distrust or sense that the poa has a clan disdined or ability to change it on the back end the policy. all of the rights are afforded by the state law or charter 1 of the things interesting that came from your discussion as i understand it i wanted to confirm it for you where there is agreement in this policy where you sat with experts and discussed it my understanding is you would be willing tonight to make a representation as a member on the poa board that z

items as adopted in version 3 would not be subject to the meet and confer process then as a result of that aspects of this policy would be able to be implemented immediately there need to be some acceptances of change. change is accepted in the document but the areas of agreement would not be subject to a later process. >> okay. you asked a lot of questions i got a couple thing. >> i blame my law degree. >> if i can correct the record when i might when it came to the body camera meet and confer the poa went many with a different mind set of what came out of that process the agreement that came out of all that is not what our original intention was that has to do specifically with officers watching a body camera then giving a statement. we just for purposes of clarification i

think it's important we came out of that because we're good faith negotiators there can be a brief then subsequent video that is not what we intended to g out of that. in terms of the question of the pages that you see are not in yellow, yes. that language was worked on in the course of i would just to say 22 hours worth of discussions to this point so yes i would caution you though against implement a policy even though it's maybe went % or a percentage of yellow that we would disagree with because i don't know how you would have a use of force policy without having those particular issues ironed out before the policy gets adopted. when you are talking about the engagement

with a threatened vehicle that is a big deal. we see that not just as a -- it's certainly a discipline issue and director callahan followed out we believe it is pertnant to the issue we need to discuss. and corroded? that is just a small example of we quoted we did a survey of the officers i will point out corroded i'm a 5' 4 fee male the moments i have used corroded it saved my life 3 time that is an officer safety issue we want to discuss that. i think it's safe to say if you adopt the language we went through carefully and allow for the process to proceed there is no reason the process can't be lengthier because we

have gone through so much of this policy by the time we meet with director callahan and her staff it's obvious anybody wants to pick up a copy there are certain sections we want to discuss but it it is not the original policy if we had to start from line 1. does that help at all. >> yes i think i have to be precise in what i'm asking. we're talking about 80% of the policy not highlighted in yellow. for the purposes of this record i will go over that by page number we're anytime universe of that 80%, there are aspects of that for example shall deescalate where feasible to do so we need to roll out training plans. how do you train to that? how do you move that forward? what is going to happen at the academy? it seems to me

we should not delay. >> if you wanted to roll out deescalation and agree on the language we looked at i don't know why you wouldn't issue a department bulletin and begin training tomorrow. >> i don't think we have to do that if this is the question that i have for you. as we talked about, there are rights conferred to you guys on the back end it causes a delay in the implementation of a policy that is important. my question is will you support for the 80% of your policy in your capacity as an elected member of a poa 80% of that for the record will you support the department immediately. >> i don't know how you would do that. because the yellow -- blake you want to address that? maybe i don't understand how you

can have a force policy 1 day and not have the corroded for instance or teach and train officers about a bravery prohibited circumstances with vehicle and wait and confer to meet and work out. >> there would be open issues that would still be suggest to meet and confer the items suggests to meet and confer would be limited and the department would not be delayed in implementing areas where there is agreement that is the department's obligation. and i can ask deputy chief sinus to weigh in. >> the policy has 3a, corroded and threat by vehicle it's in your current policy we couldn't be opposed to that because it's there now. >> i don't think that's going to be there by the end of tonight. that is my guess that being said

that's why i'm treating that different there is 80% agreement and 20% not agreement just in that rubric. so the areas there is not agreement i understand you are preserved your right by state law and charter to negotiate. what would be important is there is an issue of the urgency of the moment and if there is agreement to not reopen issues that have already been closed that is 1 thing that is good what would be even better is we not only have to not reopen issues but allow the department and amount of time again to begin rolling out training plans by station, crisis intervention team all of these things happening in real time there is a sense nothing can happen until the meet and confer -- >> there is nothing preventing

the department from rolling out crisis intervention protocol they're working on policy now that's a different issue they will be presenting for instance deescalation we get bulletins and reminders all the time about different force matters. i just i would caution you from rolling out a policy that is incomplete. the questions you have for alicia and director callahan i'm probably not best to answer that we're going to hold our right that is bound by charter regarding meet and confer process regarding the issues in yellow if you -- am i missing something? okay. >> it's clear what she's saying is, if we were to take the 80%

and begin implement 80%. >> i have to understand how you did that. >> assume the yellow doesn't exist. >> yeah right. it's hard for me to do that. >> i know it does consist in the con fekz of meet and confer process we're putting that aside for that purpose to ensure the 80%. >> director callahan can weigh in on this. director callahan come on up. >> should i say here? >> yeah. >> hello. >> can you restate the question? >> there is 2 issues on the table 1 is it sounds we get a

from lieutenant nevin in areas there is 80% agreement they will bring that back up in meet and confer. the next level where i was pushing was would he also represent that the poa would not object to the department moving forward on what would be required to implement that in particular around training an planning so areas where there is no disagreement there would not be unnecessary delay for implementation. >> not for training an planning. >> the question is whether the department could do it with your representation? >> no it's pretty clear. there is only certain items not agreed upon. can the department move upon on the items agreed upon? >> i would say it's the union has it's right to meet and confer on those. >> right. >> what i'm hearing from the

union is saying they don't really understand how you could move forward on the 80% without answering the question of the 20%. >> for allowing us to question of t with the department to meet and confer to see. >> i'm going to jump in here. hold on. 80% we agree on. >> we hope you do. >> let's live in a world we agree. wouldn't that be nice? 80% we agree. 20% we don't agree. this commission is going to march through 12 issues we're going to vote 1 way or the other i believe. that is what i believe we should do. then we will end up with a policy where 80 remains exactly the same where the other 20% regardless

you are preserved your right to meet and confer the 20%. part of what is confusing to the public is what we're bargaining on when it comes back to the public commission we're clear. 80%, 20%. i'm trying to put a finer point on it so it's clear for everybody no tricks this 80% you agree is good. >> i can't say on the fly without labor attorneys without us what his opinion are of the other 20%. i can't do the meet and confer at this moment. >> my question is on it on 100% or 20% of the policy that's what i need to know. >> if adopted it would hopefully be on 20. >> 20 is the problem for me. >> how am i miss stating that?

>> you are the 1 that is going to have to miss bargain -- >> maybe a clarification as i understand it the union is saying the items not in yellow are acceptable to the union they do not feel the need not to request to negotiate about those items and reserves the right to negotiate part in yellow. >> we're fine with that. >> i didn't want to interrupt marte of the police officer association thank you all for your comments i want to extend my thanks to dhr director callahan to the occ the san francisco bar association

secretary nevin and our council blake. they have done a fantastic job putting in 25 hours burning the midnight oil coming to this. the problem i see with this question president loftus is this. the 20% we're in disagreement that we agree to disagree with the stakeholders that 20% if changed either by dhr, by the stakeholders by the commission could have an effect on the 80% we have pretty much agreed on. changes in the 20% can have an effect on the other 80%. also the meet and confer process is not done here in open forum with dhr also outside of our labor council who is unable to be here tonight so we cannot make that agreement here and now. i'm not saying we would not

make that agreement down the road based on what this commission votes for and puts forward to dhr i'm saying legally we cannot make that agreement here and now based on the good faith that has already happened between occ san francisco bar association and doa something can be put forward tonight. and that 80% will not be an issue doub the road with meet and confer with dhr. >> what i hear is you are participated in this process. sir you are out of out i don't want to remove anybody that would be a big disappointment. you are not going to wave in the meet and confer process there is 80% here you are not willing to

say 80% you agree and we can move forward because the 20% is something that could change how we feel about the 80%. >> it could change by this commission if it goes forward as is in the document chances are we would not have problems with the 80% if something changes in the 20% that could have an effect on the other 80% so we can no surrender. >> i'm going to say this. i could not disagree with you more. shall deescalate when feasible is such an important thing to move on. the fact that is held hostage you have those rights and i afford it to you this board needs to move on this change and it's done by department bull 10.

>> that can be done by department bulletin. >> we're not holding anything hostage like the body worn camera we sacrificed language we didn't want in there and some language we did want in there we're working with the stakeholderses we're not holding anything hostage we want this to move this forward as well i as the president of the poa have a responsibility that this policy is the best out there this 20% has an effect on the 80% could make it not a good policy i would not be doing my job to surrender those rights here and now. >> we're using 80 and 20y it's what has been agreed upon and what has not agreed upon. our

suggestion was reserve the right to deal with those things that have not been agreed upon. can we move forward that is your position you want the whole thing done. >> i think that would be best. if the commission and the deputy chief and chief want to put forward bulletins addressing it that is acceptable in the interrum -- go ahead commissioner? >> i want to understand why you think it's connected it's causally related that it's related to the escalation of force if that were not the policy you woeld vote against the entire thing let's say corroded restraint rewe could not vote against the entire policy no. i don't know what

this commission will put forward to dhr what you put forward in a future commission meeting then it would be easier for the poa to make that decision on what we agreed upon, okay that is still all good because the commission didn't change anything or they changed something minimally it won't have an effect on it 80% i can't make that decision here and now. >> my question is your concern in the yellow impacts the stuff you agreed upon or is it just that if we took a certain position on something in yellow you would disagree with the entire policy because it's so important. >> i will not be disagreeing with the entire policy. there is too much in there all ready been agreed upon by the poa with the bar association with the occ.

>> that is the underlying of this document are there parts in yellow agreed upon with the parts yellow those are different concepts . >> it depends on what the commission puts forward in a vote. >> thank you. president howard and nevin. >> can i ask director callahan another question? >> sure. >> earlier we heard from the aclu their belief that the corroded restraint would be a policy decision and not a personnel issue to the meet and confer i'm wondering to the major issues in yellow which is the corroded restraint duty to not raise impact weapon above the head shots fired the issue around shooting and moving vehicles what is your view

whether these are policy issues a meet and confer versus personnel or work place issues that would be suggest to meet and confer. >> as much as i would like to start off without preparing i'm not going to do that at this point i think slay good argument these are policy matters and certainly the decision would not be subject to meet and confer but to the impact or extent it involves safety what will happen is we will be in consultation with our attorneys and case law and standards and take our position. if we believe it is not suggest to meet and confer process because it has no significant impact or funtmental policy issue etcetera we would refuse to engage in the meet and

confer and certainly refuse to go to arbitration i point i tried to make earlier there are sishgsz s something we disagr on we might reach an agreement any way. that i think can happen and we don't agree we have to talk about it or that we would have to go to arbitration and the union maintains if we do settle it we would go. that would be coming back to the commission for approval. i cannot at this point i haven't looked at the case or heard the arguments of the union why they followed this scope. >> labor lawyers i don't understand it. with the corroded restraint i can see this is a work place issue and in terms of

policy we don't want people to use this. i'm trying to figure out if you can make a broad sense how you make that decision. >> what we look at is balancing there is a lot of case law what is within the cope of bargaining and what isn't. in consultation with our city attorneys would make a determination whether it is within scope or obligated to bargain about it if that is the case we will bargain about it if it is not we can make another agreement and discuss with a dispute then we probably refuse to go to arbitrary and the union would go to court and compel arbitration and the judge would decide is that helpful? i can't tell you right now without the city attorney looking at

specific items . >> mr. marshall. >> i understand your line of questioning since that is not upon us i want to figure out where we stand on these things . >> thanks. >> it continues going to go through 12 items starting page 7 follow along in the audience. i'm sorry members of the public i apologize. the area that is in yellow the reference penal code section 835 about officers not having a need to retreat. my sense is there a disagreement with the community and the stakeholders representative i have gone back and forth about this when we use the law on an administrative policy it's confusing and you have to be

thoughtful for the sections we draw on. while it is the state of the law we cannot change that nor are we choosing to include it in here from my perspective sets a course that is counter to my perspective. i don't know if you want to discuss and agree with that. >> i agree with that. the counter intuition and it is the law it doesn't have to be here. >> anybody else on that? second item page 9 on the bottom whether or not to include policy whether or not officers responding in route being safe to do so maintain distance cover, find cover engage in communication without restraint call for proper resources this

came from doj i think it's a hallmark what this policy is ultimately about..s disagreement i commissioner melara you brought this up. i don't think it's a philosophical approach from my understanding but this level of detail is too much in a policy that is a training issue from my perspective because this signals the direction of the policy i'm comfortable leaving it in i don't know if other folks want to discuss this. >> i agree. >> let's move to the next item. which is the corroded restraint. i will reference this is on page 11, 12, 13 and 17 there is pour teen with a reference to corroded. i will mention it once it will be reference to all 4. when i say going first to page 11 colleagues they reference to

canine beats and corroded restraint holds under page 4s corroded restraint hold. on page think13 about corroded control . then on 17 i believe this is suggested by the poa with regard to if corroded survived what the technique and warning and mandatory medical assessment would be. based on our prior conversations about this we go with the language on page 13 and strike any other reference to the corroded and i'm opening to folks have any other discussions or want to discuss that

particular use of force option. okay we're now moving onto page 12 which is on the bottom of page 12 section b this is a religious that came from the united states department of justice having language that explicitly indicates technique and control operations it has a number of them including language proficiency. this has to do with efforts to use force and gain compliance. specifically is designed to caution officers with particular populations is something you should be aware of. given a u.s. doj suggestion i'm comfortable

with the language. i think many san francisco police officers working here now with any amount of time are well aware of the need to interact with the diverse pollulations in a way. if there is an issue of discipline it's clear i'm comfortable leaving in this language. colleagues any discussion on this point? >> leaving it in. >> leaving it in. correct. let's move onto page 15. at the top number 3 restricted uses of force -- 15. (speaking off the mic) page 15 i will give as much information as i can. section on

impact weapons start on 14 goes to 15. under section 3 of restricted uses. [reading] officers shall not raise impact weapon above the head to strike a subject -- can somebody from our staff deal with what the concern is there? >> page 12. >> different page. >> there are 2 versions. ([multiple speakers]. >> (speaking off the mic) it appears there are other versions of this handed out not by our staff hold on guys 1 person can

talk at a time i got this. the font was different -- go ahead sergeant. >> so the commission had a copy. we sent it out to some of the stakeholders. the commission made 25 colored copy another stakeholders made 25 colored copy that is the difference but the language is exactly the same. we're going to endeavor to help with the page difference somebody can help with that. we can follow along there is a2 page difference. the section we're talking about you can follow along with us find impact weapons restricted use. number 3. restricted uses. raise an impact weapon above the head to strike a subject. this is where

it appears as though i might ask for community stakeholders this might have been language recommended by doj the doj believed this is contrary to current training so i'm not sure where the initial language from. sergeant you can clarify for us. >> this language is in the current 1995 version shall not raise an impact weapon above the head to strike. the doj did not make a comment on this. the department suggest matter weighed in and said this is contrary to current training and it is sort of archaic training back 20 years ago . >> this is the department's effort to update. this is an existing policy line. >> from 1995. >> that the department feels a subject expert feels this is

inaccurate since it's in yellow i will ask marianne or julie tran i would like to understand what the disagreement is if there is in fact 1. >> this was an issue as if the community stakeholders weighed in it was experts. there was information as to why it was no longer good training as a stakeholders we didn't weigh in on that provision. >> i'm fine with that. i think we delete a in section b and this will be 1 of the area the commission wants to get update on training for that. any

further discussion on that colleagues? >> let's go to the next item. this is the point i said was new for people at the last public hearing we had a community member concerned that we did not address sufficiently the difference between the male and female anatomy. this would be the chest impact on women in particular. it does not appear we have a suggest matter expert to weigh in. i would suggest -- sergeant kill shaw will weigh in. >> only to tell the public that commission commissioner president loftus is on page 16 and the other section it's 14, 3.

>> if you want to know what the subject matter expert many the department says the training is it's not a vital organ and the training for eriw's which is extended range impact weapons is you aim not specifically for a body part you aim for zone 1 and zone 2. >> what is the difference. >> zone 1 is above the waist and zone 2 is below the waist not including vital organs they train us not to impact a specific body part it's zone they feel it would be difficult to train to this. >> this is made in 1995. >> eriw was not in 1995.

>> when they amended the use of force i don't think they had women in mind i think they would argue breasts are vital. >> if we look at at the definition an issue that can cause death vital organs . >> i understand. >> if you wanted them to come they could give a better much more thorough explanation. >> so i think this is an area where we don't have specific language at this stage we can make it clear to the dhr it would be helpful to us if there is a subject matter expert or any direction to give any clarity if it's vital organs we

should stick with that. if there is no further discussion on that, we can note that is an issue and track that if it comes back but not give additional guidance there. >> there's a reference on page 17 to conduct energy devices. >> and those of you that have it different it's 14g. >> that has to come out. >> my recommendation is given we have had had a conversation to adopt that as a technology for use in the department that would be stricken from this version. any discuss about that colleagues? >> no. >> i think it shows up elsewhere . >> it's abbreviated . >> sergeant kill shaw the only note i have is it showed up on page 17. any other notes it showed up . >> no any other reference to

ced's it's been stricken. >> so its on the page 17. moving onto page 19 we're in the middle where would that be sergeant kill shaw. >> 1914. what is that for the public? >> i'm getting there. sorry. page 16 at the bottom of the page in yellow. >> the language that we have is the above circumstances which include applying a discharge of firearm officers shall reassess the situation when feasible and safe to continue a pose act of threat. there is additional language here officers are not required to reassess the situation between each shot

being fired or the time needed to reassess is not needed to...: [reading]. >> you have to speak into the mic commissioner. >> the definition above the suggestion is fine. i think it's a little bit confusing down here i don't think you need this section. >> i think language that can clarify can be helpful i tend to agree. this language says officers shall reassess the situation when feasible and safe whether they continued to pose an active threat. to me, that allows for the officers to make real time determinations what is

in their best interest in terms of safety i don't want there to be a suggestion it's unsafe to do so that you are required to do that. i don't know if other folks have thoughts on that language and want to add that clarifying language or we have sufficiently covered that in the language that exists. >> my concern is how the officers have been trained at this point you have a vital point putting the officers at risk and their safety and concern. if it's not clear enough maybe this the way they're trained at the range or academy they have a suggest expert why that language is important to them. >> you have a suggestion? >> they walked out. >> the problem is we have critical thinking the common sense part of it we're pretty

clear up above. i don't think we need this. it's a principle. >> can somebody see if there is a representative here to make sure we fully understand for the commissioner. >> approved the first question they left after that. >> i asked them to stay close hopefully they did. >> you asked them to stay close but -- >> they're here. >> lieutenant nevin can you come up? we have a question on page 19 in the middle. commissioner

you want to ask your question. >> you reaffirm what is said in the first 3 lines is there a reason for the way you reaffirmed it is this consistent with the way officer have been trained. explain the reason for this especially from you with officer-involved shooting explain why that is important. >> officers are not required to shoot then reassess hey shoot and reassess. it happens in tandem. it's a simultaneous effort. that's what we're suggesting with that language. it's not shoot then stop then see what is going on. it's happening all at the same time an officer may have a reason to shoot once, twice, and that be it there could be reason to

shoot more than that but they're reassessing that is occurring instead of 1, reassess 2, reassess 3, reassess. >> duh it doesn't say that. that is your common sense and critical thinking . >> in the back of the documents we have our arguments. blake? you want to joint me. >> page 31 at the top it goes into our explain nation to thnt >> this does not say the officer has to stop and reassess. what it implies they have to stop

after every shot you don't want them to have the impression they have to stop. it doesn't say they have to stop. >> it's to get them in a mind set. >> right. >> the point is they do it it's happening at the same time. >> as long as it's safe to do so. deputy chief -- acting chief chaplain do you know if they have a position here? this is something that was a priority at the range and in the department with this idea a big issue that has been a cause of concern or the notion how many bullets are shot and by how many officers and what is the process of reassessing. does this strike the balance of making sure officers understand they do what they need to do based on the

threat currently presented but the idea is when safe to do to, which this languages uncomforts reassess the threat before refiring bullets . >> the question if chief chaplain gave me direction on this i reached out i wasn't able to communicate with them to that point. over the past 6 months implementing the reforms we did reduce the sequence at the range. as lieutenant we said we included that where we required officers to reassess there are they think that the threat is done to stop firing. they have

implemented that training so that the officers do engage in that critical thinking once they're discharging firearms i can see where the confusion applies to each discharge of a firearm offers the impression they have to do that after every single discharge. >> the first line. >> [reading] discharge of a firearm of application of a firearm with deadly force. >> we need to define what each discharge means if they're trained to shoot 2 rounds and reassess or 1 round and reassess. 2 rounds could mean discharge of a firearm we need clarification. >> part of this has to be what

is written in stone as a dgo so the question is from commissioner dejesus's perspective a charge of a firearm and training on the back end would that sufficiently address that concern? >> discharge of a firearm with deadly force when safe and feasible to do so? >> i have an image in my head of shots being fired and something should have been reassessed i don't want that language in there. i want them thinking all the time. >> i agree commissioner that's why we didn't integrate that process in the range training they're reassessing . >> if they're doing that. that is great that got us to here in

the first place. with the insane gun fire at that point and this says -- i don't want this in here. i like it as it stands i don't the addition of being not required to assess the situation i want them to reassess all the time. >> any further discussion on this matter? i know we're not including yellow do you want to change? here's the thing about that there are areas of agreement i don't want to offer them. this is a training issue this is something we have to ongoingly be aware of. it's important to me in particular and i think to machine people in san francisco in this

reassessing of the use of force we're being mindful that officers do put their lives on the line they have to use force to go home is not something we're being light about. we're trying to make sure we're clear keep yourself safe and reassess and rethink. i think we achieved that there. let's move onto page 20. >> is there a parenthesis in the first line? [inaudible] [inaudie mi speaking off the mic) . >> we can note that the

parenthesis can be taken out and there in error on page 19. for some folks it's page 17 moving vehicle. we have talked about this [reading] an officer will not fire a discharge unless the occupier is an immediate threat officers will not move from his or her moving vehicle period. it is from my understanding and washington d.c. this has been the policy gave a lot of exceptions this was i will say a big commitment of chief sir there shall be a strict

prohibition here i feel strongly we keep that language and there's a strict prohibition on shooting at cars and we borrow language from a department that has done this for 30 yearses . >> chief sir put it in the original 1. [inaudible] principle 8 and he believed in that. and departments not only since new york has included it since 72 but chicago denver and washington d.c. all have the same policy. and deputy chief sinus and think chief agreed with that. >> i would leave it in. >> the language as it is. >> vice president turman.

>> there are 2 parts the stakeholders and the following policy. >> i see that. will that part be stricken? >> my recommendation is that part be stricken. >> yeah there is no shooting at a moving vehicle. >> just to be clear, the language we adopted is an officer shall not discharge a firearm unless the operator poses an immediate threat (reading very fast) for example it's shooting a gun but strict prohibition when the threat is just the car i don't want to say just the car as a light thing kit be a dangerous situation but another department had that policy for some time that would be my recommendation we keep

everything in the first paragraph and strike everything in yellow. let's move to page went 1. sergeant that would be section page 19 at the top of the page before the use of force reporting. >> i need more information on this. it says post use of force inserted here. can someone provide me information on what that is? san marianne? >> on page 21 with the large font. >> 19 at the top of the page. >> the police officer association provided a chart that reflects the language of the level of force and this document should have included it because of time and my inability to cut and paste it is not here

it's actually. same language that is tracked it's just a matter of time it wasn't here. >> so the chart just for folks p stands for peace officer stand training. i will say doj made it clear we need definitions and collar pie i'm not opposed to adding this i don't think it's contrary to anything in the policy i don't know what folk thin think. the chart exists here but there are technical difficulties

i will affirm to include the chart. >> the language you see on levels of resistance it comports with that language. >> thank you. that is helpful. >> i have 1 question it's not a continuum of force? >> no. >> it's a chart with description and levels of behavior with force. >> thank you. >> is it okay we're going to add it there right? >> yes we are. >> this is page 23 for the large section i say page 213c -- page 21 at the top, 3 c. what level of force is recorded. if unnecessary force initiate civil i can't complaints and notify offices of complaints if forces

perceived unreasonable regardless whether the citizen think has a compliant. it doesn't appear there is a disagreement over the language but there is language with dgo 2304. >> leave it in. >> dv o. 2.04. >> dg o. 2.04 covers officer conduct if we're changing that if 2.04 needed to be looked at we didn't have time to go over

it we want to recognize that 2.04 does cover director hicks you are familiar with this how complaints are generated . >> i see. this is a drafting question we have gotten from folks there are rules sited to in other dgo's and we incorporate them by reference. whey understand -- >> it cheapi changes it though i'm not mistakes regardless if a citizen makes a complaint. >> we might have to make changes in 2.04. >> got it. >> we can discuss it. >> thank you lieutenant. i would say this is a flag for us and sergeant kill shaw we need to look at 2.04 i don't know colleagues if you are comfortable with this language this is a doj religious it's

consistent it is this officers don't have to wait for a citizen to complain if they think there is an unnecessary use of force in a reporting structure. >> leave it in. >> let's leave it as is. flag the question we got. the last is page 25 . >> page 22 roman numeral 7. officer compliance. >> this is directly in response to many community members here that were concerned it was not explicit in this document f there is not compliance what is the implication. -- as chief said is suggest to discipline in order to make that clear this was added. all officers are responsible [reading] and knowing and complying with this

policy -- (reading very fast) know the contact of this policy? >> content. >> content. look at that. this was late in the night. [reading] any member becomes aware of violation should be in add accordance with the established procedures . there is nothing new with that. it's what we expected of officers it reiterates it we don't do this with every policy to some degree you have accountability it was commissioner mazzucco this is what the doj reminder when possible i'm comfortable with that language colleagues i don't know where you are at >> i agree. it doesn't hurt to state the consequences for not complying. >> that is the 20%. we now have

a full pie. 100% of version 3. yes commissioner melara. >> if appropriate i would like to make a motion that we accept the general order version as revised by you. well no, the revisions she proposed we agreed upon that would be my motion to start the conversation. >> do we have a second? >> second. >> public comment? >> of course we will not vote until we have a public comment. >> we have version 3 the 12 outstanding issues we largely had consensus on where we would leave those things colleagues discussion? we can go to public

comment. >> okay. i'm going to open up public comment on this item. we have a motion on the floor and a second. if you could line up that would be great. public comment on this item. come on up. welcome back. >> david louis mental health trainer. i thank you for going through this. i know it's frustrating and challenging i in agreement with the changes you made not shooting at moving vehicles of course i was not clear on the change with corroded choke holds i'm against

them it's unhelpful. it's out? >> it's out. >> great 2 thumbs up go for it thanks . >> next speaker. welcome back mr. lindo. >> thank you. i have a list. page 5 on mine -- sorry start with page 2 definitions under feasibility [reading] lawful objective without increased risk to officers or other person. the word feasibility is put in there. this is language ugsed when an officer approaches an individual saying, that is a risk to another person but is never talking about the person apprehended or engaging this. i would add language this is

referring to everybody including the language apprehended. if we dealt with moving vehicle we look at page 5 the factor evaluating the use and if we look at m is whether the subject escape could pose a future safety risk . >> your copy is different from ours . >> page 6 [multiple speakers] b b2m. >> got it. >> suggest escapes could pose a future safety risk i that leaves a lot of room in this case for mrs. lopez to where someone is running away it could be cause for excessive or justified excessive use. that is something we should explore if someone

rents out a gun and is running away you would want to deal with the situation if it's a knife running away that would be justified. the poa had an opportunity to meet and confer in the negotiations we had today. no discussion of what policies or what were protocols they had the opportunity then they rescinded their offer to -- micrometeorologic[speaking off sorry. rules apply to everybody.

welcome. >> this is definitely a sausage making exercise. i'm afraid in this case the sausage has fallen on the floor it has gotten stomped on the roaches are all over. the process is up in the air right now the public thought they had an agreement with the poa to with hold their meet and confer on 80% and it turned out we don't. i'm not sure what we have. this is so confusing it looks toe me it may head towards lawsuits which we should all be concerned about. where are we? does anybody know as far as the meet and confer on the whole thing now if it's adopted? what should happen at this point i will reiterate we should go back and do deep thinking about this

and revisit it. community groups are not the same as the stakeholders. the stakeholderses are the aclu, the bar association etcetera. justice mario woods is not involved in the discussion neither are the other discussions these are the grass roots people the people showing up making noise and shut you down once in a while. i feel strongly you should not vote on this because the process has gotten so messy. we should have more thought about it. i'm glad what happened as far as the yellow items they got resolved in a way community members will like this need toss be explained to them in a way that can buy into it. please don't vote tonight. 2 more weeks are not going to kill the whole process we're going to meet and meet and

confer with the poa so let's do this right. thank you. >> next speaker. welcome back. >> thank you. i'm confused as everybody else right now. there are 3 parts to use of force before during and after. the question i have is propertied by the letter to poa from palrant all they have to say is i exhausted all reasonable alternatives the script is written they're trained and coached in that. during is the only time when a good cop has an opportunity to intervene physically is necessary. there is an article i will share with you police intervenes when

police officerses use of unlawful force. in the article groez into everything from a verbal response to a hand on the shoulder to some action not just report after the incident and after the person died after the funeral. in the moment a police officer some of them in the union act like they're not trained to deal with crisis most of us understand the streets we understand that things happen and the training you go into the immediacy of what happens includes the immediacy of intervening and responding and stopping that lethal force so the interpretation when things are reasonable are so subject to prior conditioning they get up have a bad day have an an argument with a spouse the kids got kicked out of school the car is not running well they're

loaded on caffeine and going on patrol what do you expect? officers can be helped to understand that. right now it's useless to report it after the funeral. >> thank you. next speaker. good eveni evening. >> hi. i'm john jones doing it from the comments forgive my remarks if they're unkien the representatives of the police officer is that general order was not severable. in my upon to have a bunch of lawyers like yourselves try 5 different times

to get an un cliernt to waive uncollective bargaining rights. i think there's a breach of trust are you responsible for it i would like to confer what you did tonight i don't know what is up and what is down i presume newspapers will be report on it tomorrow. >> thank you. next speaker. good evening. welcome. >> commissioner loftus commissioners my name is ken. i'm an associate with morgan louis here representing the blue ribbon panel in the community stakeholders in the drafting of previous versions in version 2 and 2 a. the version 3

discussed by the commission have substantial improvements and raise many of the concerns and the blue ribbon panel over the course of this process 1 remaining concern of the panel relates to portable use of force where is a different use of force despite that we believe it represents the substantial improvements and the commission should move forward with 3 amended this evening. we strongly believe there should be no revisiting upon shall and mandatory language dees ka leaking principles and the robust data collection given there is widespread agreement on those issues we hope that leads

to an expa dieted meet and confer but should not be revisited. while the draft of version 3 is new we echo what president loftus said. it's not new and reflects months of discussions. we appreciate the hard work of the occ the various stakeholders on this process looking forward with the commission with the use of force. >> i know you studied different versions at length. and give us different oneses what is the greatest version compromise from stakeholders 2a to 3. >> i think it's done with the bar association with occ they can answer that question more effectively than i could. >> thank you.

>> thank you. public comment? it's closed. >> i want to say to the blue ribbon we have been working on this language for months. a lot of the language has stayed the same the consensus is in terms of the policy is fair to both parties and transparent you ask. >> when you asked the other stakeholders he was not allowed to tell you is that a law you are not aware of. >> i can talk to you about that offline. thank you sir. public

comment is now closed commissioner hwang. this is the last 1. then that is it public comment will be closed after this gentlemen. >> i just wanted to -- >> nothing go i have done that myself go ahead. >> 1 of the issues around the meet and confer is the police officers association won't be able to effect that process the commissioner have effected policy in that process rather than just safety concerns and a think a lot of the community is concerned at the degree to which the police officer association gets to effect policy in the first place. >> thank you for your comments commissioner hwang? >> my question is to mrs. marianne or tran. version three is a compromise. what

issues if any did the stakeholders give up between 2a and 3. >> i don't think we did not give up anything we felt we needed to die on the hill for. what i wanted to say in terms of the process is the poa came to the table with good faith a big part of what i'm doing with the bar association now with chief

chaplain looking at different departments in terms of what is happening 1 of the most important things i have learned with implementation of officer buy in. if you don't have officer buy in at some point you get serious bad reaction we thought it was important to bring them to the table they learned from us. we learned from them. that 80% we agreed upon is still very much there. i'm not sure it can be stated in this form. i'm confident given the conversations in the hallway it's still there and we operated in good faith. we're good with the 80% and so are they. >> i want to thank you for being here for hours and hours it's a fact. you gave us agreement on

-- i almost cursed almost everything and that left us with the ability you see we moved through it. thank you. the fact that you came back got in the room and allowed us to get to where we are tonight. i want to thank all of you . >> it's not just us that worked on it i think it's all of you the community. we started thinking about women and women's anatomy a lot of things that the community raised it's been that process and the patience we have all had it is a process you can't rule these out quickly and i want to make sure the training comes with this policy is the most critical it needs to be communicated all the way down the line 1 of the things the poa was most helpful with is creating language that would be understandable to the officers

and they would reck myself and redably embrace that is a place they educated us that is where we had a lot of good work together. >> just to your point each part of the process led to the next part of the process . >> absolutely. >> there are a lot of folks that thought we were never get to this point. >> we couldn't do this 6 months ago i think we got here. thank you. >> thank you mrs. tran. i feel a sense of responsibility for the process. we started it in december this is a messy way of doing thing the concept of

transparency is something we're endeavoring to enact in every way we can having an open discussion of policy we did it with body camera line by line and people ask questions you find out where folks are at. i want to say to the extent this process is messy i'm happy to explain where we are i will do my best to tell you where we are to take a vote. we have had significant change to the use of force in the past 6 months in the last 2 months doj community feedback comment we had versions that ended up here in version 3. that version reflects i think there is an 80% agreement while the part of me would like to lock everything in. i would like to have gotten that closed out. i understand there is a sense 80% going through the process is

agreed upon the 20% we have clarified tonight this body is going to vote on it. i believe that as much as the result we end up with the process we end up with is as important. the fact that we have folks from various coalition from the bar association and blue ribbon panel the frisco 5 members of the police association if there is anything that is going to make lasting sustained change in this city i have a different perspective from everyone else i look at this and know this is what it's going to take it's messy with that colleagues before we take a vote commissioner hwang. >> a friendly amendment to version 3. the amendment is we

offer in the same process if approved designate the contact person to follow through with the meet and confer process i would nominate san marianne or julie tran or some combination with that. if they're willing to continue to follow through the meet and confer process. >> i think that's a fantastic idea. and i will definitely support season marianne. we have to have discussion with her. >> i wouldn't couple that. if you want to make a recommendation separately . >> would we have to vote on it? >> i think so. >> we have to schedule for the next meeting to vote on it. [multiple speakers] i want to make sure they have 1 of our expert subject matter people

available. >> let's designate mrs. tran and mrs. marianne. >> [speaking off the mic]. >> rehope to follow with director hicks and make it available. >> [inaudible] can you define or vote on the amendment? >> deposition attorney lisa you can rule on your rules of order i don't give an opinion on that. >> i'm okay to with draw it as long as we calendar it for the next meeting. >> any further discussion on

this item? sergeant kill shaw call the vote. >> on the motion to accept the draft dgo501 version 3 commissioner loftus how do you vote? >> yes vice president turman how do you vote? yes. commissioner marshall how do you vote? >> yes. >> commissioner dejesus how do you vote. >> yes commissioner mazzucco how do you vote? >> yes commissioner hwang? >> yes. >> commissioner melara how do you vote? >> yes. >> the motion passes 7-0. [applaus [applause]. >> all right. thank you everyone who stayed so long we're almost done we're not. we still have a whole other item. what do we

have? sergeant please call the next line item. >> firms that are qualified to conduct this type of work for the city and received one proposal (discussion and possible action). >> i would like to welcome back nikki callahan we have an acting chief of police currently this role by charter is to handing the process interviewing candidates for the permanent position and forwarding that onto the mayor and we would offer up to 3 i think it says

candidates the mayor can select from those or say i don't like any of them and it can go back. part of what we have done thus far is i had an initial conversation with director callahan around options with a recruiting firm we have 1 that expressed interest we're here on the commission to discuss that direction in that firm or others might have other suggestions i think we want to do everything we can to do the best we can with that director callahan. >> good evening. i will try to be concise. dh has a role we have a recruitment firms to recruit high level con dates we're is cysting to help the airport and a number of other departments with recruitments

some commissions will decide to handle it without a recruiter. the majority use a recruiter it's the best way to get what we call pass candidates those that are not necessarily looking for work or file of people that are good candidates and encourage them to apply. going from not using a recruiter to the full nuts and bolts proposal where you can have them do almost everything under your direction dhr if you do facilitate the recruiter the contracting process we have the prequalified pool there are a few things we would do that are supportive for example i require my assistant to help with the department head interviews brings them in and sets up the skype all that. we post them on our website. the

solicitation we did i call soup to nuts i want you to source candidates for me and we will decide the ones we want to interview we don't need you to vet them for example. this chart attempts to list the major steps for recruitment. what i tried to show here is that a number of hinges have to happen if they're not done by the police commission staff. they need to be done, somebody's got to do them. dhr is posting the job and working on the job offer aufb we would support the commission however we could. what i neglected to put on the list is the background prosets says that is a piece we need to get set up i started looking at how that could be done. the

solicitation and the company elected not to bid on that portion of it we asked for the resources we talked to we contacted the city and attorney general for obvious reasons we don't have them do their own on their own chief. we do have a bid from the ralph anderson firm from the director they sent me samples i think 2 years ago they did the oakland recruitment and nothing is quite as large. i don't know if you can blame anything that is going on in oakland. >> [inaudible]. >> the last time rehad recruitment i'm aware of that since i have been in this position and we used from

sacramento i think it was mury 10 or 8 years ago george was selected and chief sir is selected it was posted and not a recruiter used depending on whether sending out the solicitation responding to the nationwide search which implies you will do more than post it my recommendation is if the interested in looking far and wide for the best candidate you want to help beyond the commission staff you have. >> our commission staff is awesome. there is 2 of them. if you are here tonight you know how things we have on our agenda and follow up on. to end run this we do not have a staff that can move the reform agendas

forward that will kill them. i would want them to stay alive. i think that we need to get resources and i think this is a fair proposal to do that. i also think i just want to say that part of what people in san francisco want to see is we have a recruiting firm not just people looking for a job but people that might not have thought about this but would be a good fit whatever candidates we say these are the best across the nation and what we're looking for. i would think -- i would recommend -- yeah. i would recommend from the recruiting perspective and the support in the process i would entertain a motion. >> [speaking off the mic].

>> absolutely. recruitment firms there are none that are specifically law enforcement firms we ask them to show experience in law enforcement recruiting whether you think it's sufficient i don't know. the question about using prequalified they have to meet the city's contractor requirements it's a lot faster to use ones that are prequalified. if you found a firm you wanted pho use which is not prequalified they have to use not to use prop cal hardwood and sweatshops and important

things in northern ireland they have to prove benefits equal compliance in my experience that takes 3-4 months to get compliance. >> there is an aspect to this too or wanting to get out there and move and i think the sooner we have permanence around the chief, the better that would be my thought. >> i think you are right. i was surprised we got 1 bid i thought everybody want to recruit a police chief i was wrong. the other option i wanted to point out if the commission is interested in something less than the soup to nuts we can go through the process a second time with a scaled down version or something -- i also believe that in the conversation with

the bidder we could say we want to do it this way instead it would be under the direction of the commission whether you want to have the entire commission that all of the resumes are just the top 10 or all the commission wants to be in all of the interviews that is all your decision. >> i would look at the resumes . >> most commissions usually have a sub committee do some of that work p front. >> i heard that and did that so here's where we are. and everybody is very concerned who the chief of police matters a lot to people we will keep going if there are areas we can move to a sub committee we can do that first. we got to keep moving this would be subject to a vote. i would entertain a motion to approve the bid. second? we got a second. we need

to take public comment before we vote on this. any public comment on this matter? hearing or seeing none, public comment is closed. the only other thing i would say about this colleagues we will have to work with this firm on the community process. and how the areas of the communities can way in. what are we looking for? we have to tell the recruiter what to go find over the next few weeks we have to figure out community conversations to go out and have conversations we can agendize that for next week. >> sergeant -- not next week. next time we're together. and maybe by then we can get a presentation from a recruiter

and start that process. okay. sergeant. call roll. >> yes. on the motion to approve the bid from the ralph anderson firm. commissioner loftus how do you vote? >> yes. >> votes yes. vice president turman how do you vote? >> no. >> vice president turman votes no. commissioner marshall. >> yes commissioner dejesus how do you vote? >> yes. >> votes yet. commissioner mazzucco how do you vote? >> yes commissioner hwang? commissioner hwang votes yes. commissioner melara votes yes. the motion passes 6-1.

>> call item 5. >> public comment.

>> if a poli [reading]. >> he wants to stay alive steer the situation most important he needed to coordinate the situation with a valuable piece of equipment he has called a radio mike. i think 40% of the business is mental illness. this will help. we also need to have a new team the crisis intervention team. equal to the police and in numbers. this is the next step then we need to find the place to put these people again safe homes the hospital safe rooms we need to

coordinate them off the streets. picking police. i believe that 10 year veterans that have not fired a gun should be involved with picking the people that want to recruit. they should have a lunch with them. go to a firing squad with hem. members of the police force with that seniority can say these people are good these are bad we should work with these people. there is a lot we need to do. again, we need to take the guns off the police belts i would like the police to start a training session for that how that works thank you. >> thank you for staying. any further general public comments? welcome back. >> david again. i just want to thank you for reaching the unanimous vote you did on our

5.01 use of force. that is good progress. all of the hard work community meetings all that abuse you had to suffer too with things people yelling and carrying on it worked out you came ut with a good agreement i think meet and confer will go well they have a document handed out. it's implemented i think san has d a fantastic job i have worked with in her capacity on this thank you. >> any further general item. mexico line item. >> adjournment.

>> motion for adjournment. all those in favor, please say >>[gavel] >> good afternoon and welcome to the local agency formation commission. i'm john avalos chair of the commission joined by the right by vice chair commissioner cynthia crews and to my left eric mar. mr. clerk please share with us your announcements >> [inaudible] coffee but from memory, please sounds all cell phones and electronic devices. if you wish sp