goal. our goal was to look at research and look at other departments and literally were on the road starting a year ago with the san jose police department and then making a number of trips to the oakland police department where we found their work to be incredibly helpful, so why data collection is needed? first of all it's the law. when we started this work ab 953 was not on the table nor was the city's ordinance. our goal was to not just help with the data collection but to understand its usefulness, and what we learned is that it can actually be used to improve policing, particularly enforcement strategies and community policing. it can identify problems identify inappropriate uses of force particularly if we can couple it with racial profiling or racial

data, evaluate bias in policing being, provide open dat to increase transparency and community trust and participation and foster innovation so some of the benefits and this chart we got yesterday from the oakland police department and they have been at this far longer than we have because they were forced to be at it and working with the department of justice and a court monitor to implement a number of changes but the use of force complaintses and how it's gone down over the years. i think it starts here in 2007 and down to 2016. we don't yet have this final report but in terms of stops that since they implemented the changes they have over in oakland the stops seem to have dropped by 50% and so i think as we start to engage and what you need to know is that other departments are not collecting data i don't want you

to think that san francisco was unusual. most departments have not and the attorney general's office has enacted a statute as the city and county of san francisco. i don't want you to think we're behind because we're not. other departments are not doing that work either. but our -- we recommend that we need to adopt a platform to collect this data and that -- and the next slide you will see there is an interim platform but before doing that we strongly recommend there be a team. i think what we learned most from oakland there is a strong team in place where everybody owns a piece of this. they meeting regularly. they discuss it. they meet with an outside expert on an ongoing basis. you need to partner. if we took one thing away loud and clear from the departments we visited you need to partner with an outside academic, a data analyst who is expert in this

role. you cannot do it in house. first of all no one will trust it and you need somebody who can interpret this data in a very expertise way. data collection must be purposeful and meanful and useful. there is a current plan with sfpd. the it department has developed a phone app to collect data as required by the law. they can't wait for -- one of the reasons we needed our report before you because it's very timely and starting january 1 with the city they have to start reporting so they created a phone app. that development occurred without the input of an expert analyst. i would encourage the department to seek an outside academic as soon as possible so they can partner with them as they build further data platform. whether this app is going to work? i don't know. it's going to be piloted october 1 which is just

around the corner. i think at ingleside and that's how it's going to get started. as i mentioned before we think it's critical to include outside expertise. as i said that's the number one recommendation of all of the departments. it provides transparency and credibility and consistent with 21st century policing and in the absence of outside experts you only have the data, the raw data. it can be misinterpreted either by the department as it reports it or by others outside the department. so why analysis matters so much? and there's a quote which i won't read and from jennifer everhart's report with oakland and there are two approaches generally to data analysis and collection and the first really makes the case for racial disparities and makes

police departments offense defensive and the point is to incite so much resistance that meaningful reform is difficult if not possible. >> >> the second approach is oh we account for the crime rate and find there are no racial disparities but we know from the work with the communities that is not true. so her approach is a problem solving approach and i think it's the same approach that the bar association took and here are some of the findings. so she did find that there are racial disparities in the op stops, searches, hand handcuffing and arrests even after accounting for crime rates and demographics and other factors that influence policing activity but the department by working with her on an ongoing basis acknowledged the disparities and eager to address them. to this end we have conducted our analysis in a

manner that allows the doesn't to make changes in practices and policies and procedures and it's the beauty of data collection by someone that knows what they're doing. they have isolated conditions under which racial disparities are the greatest and the least and understanding how they're likely to emerge gives it is agency, meaning the police department and direction how to lessen them. this approach yielded new tactics that op d and other law enforcement agencies can under take to reduce racial disparities. in other words their approach acknowledges existing disparities in policing and gives the department the tools to mitigate and perhaps even eliminate these disparities so the impact of good data collection and analysis should inform policy and policing by policing we mean strategies, so that if you understand you're

searching regularly and it's not producing anything the strategy is going to be you're going to stop doing that because it's not productive, so i want to say on behalf of the law enforcement officers that we have met and worked with that we really respect their concerns. i think that any police department is worried and nervous that they're all going to be called racist once we collect this data. anybody working in the bay view working primarily in a black neighborhood feel that once the data is collected they're racist and that's why you need an expert to contextualize the information. it's not enough to collect raw data. you need the expertise to analyze it and to content you'llize it. i'm not going to go through all of this because i know we're short on time and i know you have read it all. data can be also used as we learned in oakland to track

productivity. they in addition to just collecting the data they would link it to who is the sergeant, whether the sergeant was regularly assigned or a sub and look at particular squad and meet with the sergeant on a regular basis and they are responsible and the meetings on a weekly monthly basis that goes on is critical to the work. it's not a matter we can't make the business and produce the data as the state requests. i think we should take advantage of the expertise out there and available to us to analyze this data so it can better inform our policy and our strategy and our early warning system and our risk management and all of those things. can it be linked if you get the expert in at the ground floor to build the platform that you need to collect the data. >> >> because if you wait to

collect the data and expect the expert to come and analyze it and "it would have been helpful if we had this and this and this" . the second step is to create a team to design a single policy and standard reports. even with this the new app rolling out we still don't have, and we included in the materials for you. oakland has created a policy like a general order and an entire manual how to collect the data so that's the next step. this is a lot of work and we're not going away. even though they made him chief and he left the committee he's not too far from us nor are the other police officers representatives that have joined our group since he's left. we need to update all of our incident reports and the field

cards and the citations and forms needs to be updated. this app as i understand it is a separate process and collect the racial data as required by the state but it's not going to be necessarily integrated into all of these other reporting forms so we need to do that and i think that is the next step. the team needs to review the policy and the procedures regularly to assure fidelity to the best of your recollection. sound policy provides. >> >> for the officers and transparency and accountability. i am concerned when we do it a little bit at a time what happens it's confusing to the officers because they get directions that this is how we're going to do it and a few months later we give new directions so i think we would be wise i think we have to collect the data starting january 1 and can't implement all of this by then but wise to create a team and work on this

and approach it holistically with the assistance of outside academic to do it right and i think when we visited oakland it was then commander chaplin and you have been doing the heavy lifting for years and we're grateful from the hard work you have been doing. we can also tie this data to body worn camera footage. we watched a dashboard in oakland where paul figueroa the assistant chief could go through 6,000 hours of body worn camera in a matter of seconds and identify with the assistance of a program that was developed by stanford an algorithm that could identify markers that were useful for training and useful for further investigation regarding bias in policing and we think that's a pretty remarkable state of the

(encoder dropped) but the way that a number of reports have been written for years i think has drawn a conclusion that we need to take a much deeper look at and where there are issues and where there aren't issues and free people who are doing fair and impartial policing and not cast with one brush. thank you for the work. i see another commissioner has

one in terms to the chief and next steps. i know this has been sent to doj and we're looking for feedback but looks like there is resources to support the department and i don't know if there are next steps to share with us. >> being part of the sub-committee and we identified and we started the prolses to implement and identify through the rfp process to hire an academic in that capacity. i know we are looking for that academic and finish that process and do the work that was just talked about which is coming out with the best practices way to look at and what to collect and what to look at and one of the big things with the expert in the field and the body cam footage we're just rolling them out so we have time for that portion because it's helpful to have all the body cams deployed and analyze that to the ooj but

i think that's the next step to get an academic in place because a lot of the things you heard today and in the body of work and hirchlos an director hicks and outside -- academic looking at this and this is what they do. >> we talked about captain connley being here and we wrote in the letter to the mayor we need an academic for the reforms for what the points you made and the independence from the outside and around data we don't know what we need to know and i think we will hear that from u.s. doj too and there is a commitment to getting the outside academic. commissioner mel lara. >> i am so glad to hear we're engaging an academic but more i

suggest you engage an academic institution. i see stanford here and good idea that we actually -- if that person was attached to a major institution it would be really great because it would come with a lot of resources, and so you know it's always good to be attached to something greater than an individual. >> commissioner i think one of the best practices is find an academic with ties and that goes into the credibility and someone that has done the work before with a metropolitan department and has a little bit of experience because this is new ground to be looking at for us but hopefully not for the person doing it. >> i agree and what we found with oakland they had a whole team from stanford that came in and i think you would agree with me you know when i first started reporting out on some of the findings the officers weren't

sure believed it until they actually saw it and analyze today and it was a bit of an epiphany for them and you get used to doing things a certain way until someone shows you this is what is happening and they truly have changed how they do their police work. i know they still have problems but they're different problems. i think they have done a tremendous amount of work in this area. >> i can give an example as an attorney for the occ we received complaints and african-american is riding the like to the store and does that every other day and the officer stops him for no good reason. the officer deny its happens or for a reason. with the technology we saw in oakland the assistant chief can get on the computer and dial up the officer number and dial up

the actual contact from the body camera with the complainant and analyze that at the moment. that would assist the occ tremendously in the evaluation of complaints and departments so you get to it right away at somebody's desk. it was incredible of the precise information can you get in seconds if you have the right analysis and program and the body camera and the data collection. he did that. he dialed up a contact to show somebody he was looking at, whether it was an issue of officer was stopping somebody without as you. >> right. it's very powerful both ways for you know for that officer not to have additional -- a number of complaints even if they're not sustained. i know it's an issue and we have seen a reduction in that and when there is a real issue.

>> it informs and working with the sergeants and teams and present the data and make it useful and measure weekly or daily bulletins and how this is working so it has a far greater usefulness then what the state is looking for. i have no doubt we can comply with the state requirements given my conversation wses the it department recently but that is just little tiny piece of the usefulness of this data, and i think that we can be a state of the art police department, a very profl -- i think every police officer wants to do the best and professional job they're capable on doing and we need to give them the tools to do it so we're not going away. we will remain whether you like it or not -- >> we have a couple more questions and then we will wrap up. >> i have a couple of

questions and when i was reading it and san francisco doesn't have a uniform system for collection data and it's the case but the phone app -- >> the phone app was developed to rectify that. >> but you mention the warehouse from 2012 and the cable system and don't talk to each other and have hand written form and is the phone app going to handle this or have an it person having the two systems collaborate? >> i heard today that as a result of this report the hand written report problem is being rectified and the kainl system needs to be retired. everyone agrees it needs to be retired. whether the crime data warehouse is a perfect system? no one. i think that's one of the reasons you need an outside expert to help you make those decisions. right now the app has been design i think in order to

comply with the state and the city's requirements going forward. >> all right. >> can i throw something out to answer the question more? we met with the california doj today and demonstrated the app and they were dwept away. they looked at other municipality and l.a. was the closest and far behind. they asked what we have right now for a model for the state and i agree on that. the data should be the floor, not the ceiling and we're looking at more robust data collection and analysis than what the state is requiring so we will give the state what they're asking for but going forward we have a lot of things we're going to you know hold and get going and working on the sub-committee gave us advance peek to what other agencies were going doing. we were went to san jose and oakland and oakland had the

best. >> >> so we stuck with that model and internally we were making changes and they're bearing fruit today as evidenced with the meeting with cal doj. >> i have another question and i understand you're doing a full report next month and the phone is developed by the it and two issues and i will throw it out. do we have it in the budget for a full time manager to integrate the data bases and stay on top as well as hiring a consultant. and the second thing all of the information to gather is in department bulletins and scattered all around and there is a mention we need a consolidated policy and sets fort-- in the presentation and sets fortexactly what we expect from the data and how it's supposed to be collected as well as the forms and maybe a task force to start working on that -- >> i would call it a team that

will address this that will map out the data that you want to collect beyond what state is requiring and how it's useful and what are the policies and writing manuals that will accompany that and that will take work. it will take what we call -- the it's person's words and process process owners and you need people that will own the process and the aspects of it and it worked effectively in oakland and had different people assigned to different charts and one in risk management and one how you're rolling it out to the sergeants and stations. >> perhaps next month they can address the budget for the personnel and talk about the next step of putting this -- however you -- >> i think the questions would be directed to chief chaplin and next steps. >> right. >> there's definitely a lot to do. and one of the things is

because we're short on time we're going to come back. we would love an update in a month and under principled policing bureau, is that right? >> yes. >> and where it would be owned and there is tremendous interest as you can see on the commission to get these systems in place and support that work, so thank you for being here. >> thank you. >> i really thank you for doing a great job and paying attention to this and working with us. >> dr. joe. >> this is more of a statement. us taking this seriously -- i just -- let me just say other than officer involved shootings and use of force and communities of color and the next big thing is what what happens at stops. there is no doubt about it and let's take this seriously and i do know and [inaudible] about this and another person you might not

think i am talking to and john burr and what they did in oakland and you know i think it's very good for us to let communities of color -- i will say particularly the black it's something we're really looking at, something we want to do something about. for me it's beyond the analysis. i mean i am just thinking of myself as a young person for a lot of people in the community policing is shaped by the first time with a officer and usually a stop. we don't get the guys that come into school and read to us and it's at a stop and you probably wouldn't be surprised use of force is linked to that stop in our heads. when a young person says i don't want to be a police officer and it's how that stop is handled and analysis of getting you know fair policing and you know not any desperate

handling with minority communities but i see as an attempt to analyze how those stops are handling in the beginning of what i call public relations policing and i don't call it community policing but there's a lot to do here and important that we're looking -- the and high on the list after use of force and what oakland did with it and necessary to begin -- too bad they had the other stuff and they were beginning to rebuild trust because of the stop data and i i know we're enforcement behind this and i see a lot of good things. >> >> one thing we saw looking at patterns of language. they have looked at that and they worked with our officers to identify this is the trigger language for

you. when someone speaks to you this way or says these words you react -- >> i know that. >> and there is information formed by the datd collection so that's the beauty of it -- >> [inaudible] handle all of that if nothing but the whole relationship is established right there from the beginning. >> right, right, yes, so data, data data. we will bring you back for an update on the progress here in a month. i am sure we will be hearing from the policing principle bureau and hopefully under that report and look to the progress that is made. thank you for being here. >> thank you so much. >> thank you chief. is there anything else in the report?y. report? no. that concludes the report. >> sergeant please call the next item. >> item 1c commission reports. commission president's report.

commissioners' report. update on police chief selection process. >> this is an opportunity for our reports. i will report for commissioners' report and the members of the public and the stage for chief is in closed session today and review the 61 applications. we reviewed them individually as which are commissioners. we will discuss them in closed session and decide who will get an interview and after that is scheduled so that's the update for us in terms of that process. anything from imrt commissioners? >> yes thank you and continuing with our reaching out to the officers what they're looking for in a chief and i was invited to the san francisco police academy friday and i addressed the recruits and maybe more than a hundred and i talked to the class what this commission expects from them and treating them with respect and all of

the issues we have been dealing with does receptive and diverse and the proud of the staff and recruiting staff and it's faying off and i talked to every officer and we asked what they're looking for in a chief. they're looking for a leader and somebody willing to make changes. they submitted forms -- it's funny and they stand at attention and ask them to sit they sit and when they get to the station it changes and thank you chief and some of the staff out there and thank you and it was a great experience to talk with them and they would like to meet with all of the commissioners one at a time and our perspective -- >> who wants to meet us one at a time? >> academy, the recruits. >> i think we will figure out how we're going out there to present. i don't know -- yeah, we will work that out. okay.

commissioner malara. >> yes, i met with the ingleside and terraval stations and also with commissioner dejesus met with the officers for justice. a letter has been sent to all of you that outlines the discussion with us because in the interest of time they felt they didn't want to take our time here but the letter is being sent to all of you. >> okay. >> commissioner dejesus. >> letter was eloquent and talked about what they're looking for and thought into that and change and leading the department especially and implementing reforms so it's a well written letter. you got it in your email. i suggest you read it and it's thoughtful and well done and they gave other ideas too. continuing education of the officers. i think

elderly officers and retired officers were there and when you came in and had student loans and worked for the department and were forgiven and continued in the education and put in the letter for the new leader to educate people once they're in the department to incentivize them and come up with ideas and ways to continue their education so the letter is well done. i ask everyone to look at it. thank you. >> vice presidenttur dislt man. >> and my pleasure to work with the office of citizen complaints to what they thought were some of the necessary qualities and things they were looking for in a chief as well and i want to thank the members of the occ that met with me and that information has been tagged up and presented to the search firm but it was ranging from

policy making, assistant to reforms in policies and into creating a stronger deeper partnership between the department and the occ in the work that they do in policing activities, so it was a very thoughtful meeting where i heard some things expressed for the very first time that would make both the department and the occ a better working relationship so i am glad to have had that opportunity as well. thank you rec hicks and members of the occ. >> last night i attended the firstever ingleside barbecue picnic and incredible. they pulled out all the stops and tremendous community support there and the horses and the weird old talking car like the knight 2000 kit thing and there

for the kids and a climbing wall and a barbecue. their point is sometimes at ingleside they feel on the national night out everyone goes to northern and bay view and central and some of the other stations don't get that so they're working on community police scpreaps i really appreciated that and it reminded me and i talked to the chief about that that i think part of the role of the commission is acknowledging a number of the community supporters out there working to continue to build you know community, safety in what has been a really tough time so i think the commission should look at and request the captains to submit for accommodations of individuals working in the community around community safety and justice in the last month and send to the chief and acknowledge the work in the community. anything further colleagues? okay. so sergeant please call the next item.

>> item 1 d and contribution of future items and actions for future. >> sergeant i know we moved over -- we have a number of items on next week's agenda and that item is next week and a host of things in hopper. given the number of items we will we will have next week's meeting in city hall to conduct business. sergeant anything? just the meeting is in city hall beginning at 530. >> anything further on this matter colleagues? okay. we will have public comment and given the length of the agenda tonight it's two minutes and public comment on items 1 a through d. welcome and good evening. >> good evening. in the interest time i will be brief on the bar association report. go get them. that is exciting and

i am thrilled. it will take a while for the data to be perfected and i agree with professor everhart's problem solving approach and next week and you have some data now and far from perfect or comprehensive but there are things to start the problem solving approach even while this is perfected and congratulations and thank you for doing it. on the issue of the occ and the police department agreeing on minor discipline sometimes. i will get into detail here. it's helpful to understand the background. i was involved in the charter amendment for them to file charges. i know the thinking behind it and the practices and apart of paying attention to the individual cases there is how the discipline system is working collectively and understanding the trends and something i talked about and maybe not with an acting chief but later and using admonishments and it's not

discipline under state law under the general order. it requires that you start with discipline and build up and indeed the enpaltsy schedule doesn't mention them at all and mentions reprimand and in the 15 cases that the occ report the you in the last three months no discipline on a sustained case admonishment. especially when you read officers coming back with still repeated behavior after that. this is a topic of discussion and thinking from the global perspective because it's now going on for some time and not contemplated and at some point. thank you very much. >> thank you. next speaker. >> good evening and welcome. >> i am shelby and on this ongoing [inaudible] i got the information for the police but right now i am trying to get a

report and this is for -- [inaudible] which did try and buy -- [inaudible] wrong direction [inaudible] no one gets this -- [inaudible] and carry on, the police department -- [inaudible] make things better and some of the rules we have -- different direction on crime and considerations for the police to you know have a better idea on how some of these ways of laws -- [inaudible] which

the city you know attorneys and this is where -- this is all [inaudible] for reactions for this whole investigation is all been court hearings and done without me and not even the right perspective what the -- [inaudible] art and music and our point has always -- you know in the different direction because of some [inaudible] my brain cells which is not -- [inaudible] for this -- you know -- [inaudible] >> we appreciate your comments. next speaker please.

>> hello. my name is rita lark. i'm over in north beach place. i like to say hello to tony. i write the letters and fax them to you. i the like to thank the north beach police. they have been doing a good job and one request. i would like to see them in foot in the area between the cable car and over by in and out burger. sometimes at night it's hairy because the youngsters have sticky fingers again and also i would like to know if you can start ms. kowrgar to monopoly me with the re-- help me to the relocation to nevada and it happened to me and the lady in prison her family still harasses me. thank you. >> thank you. next speaker

please. >> good evening. i would like to speak so two topics please. the first was academy training and it's great to hear that you met with the class but -- and i think the community would like to see more bias training happening not only at the academy level but also within your continuing education program and not only just that to make sure that there are stages to understand how someone is compliant or is not in compliance and my colleague karen fleshmans offers that training and delivered to the public defenders' office and i encourage to you keep that consistency so within the auspices of government you have the same training. now i want to touch back -- forgive me if i take a little long because this is my profession on cloud services. while i understand you're not an it prsm i would like to point out that transparency during the process

of up dades and access and those things need to be detail the out and made transparent to the community. for example anyone with an iphone knows software upgrades are optional. i want to understand the process that you're getting the upgrades? it would be opted malto have an independent organization with oversight to control access and aws thent aws thentcasion and things that happen and evening if it's in the cloud and the software keep vendor keeps up with it it's hackable and we need to understand who has police access to it and it would be amazing to have an oversight body independent of the police department in order to ensure the integrity of that data so my question for you is that already in the plans? and if you could

share with the community what that would look like. i think i'm out of time. >> thank you. next speaker good evening welcome. >> good evening commissioners. i wanted to address you on a few things tonight. i am concerned about the process for selecting the chief. nothing personal but i believe it should be someone who is an outsider. it's hard that we can promote from within even if it's ideal and we need someone experienced with a tract record on public safety and speaking of public safety the fact that the police chief has to live in the city. we live in a city separated after bridges and after the loma prieta earthquake they couldn't get into the city and they have to live in the city. it's concerning when the poa give

endorsements to somebody and candidates are pun -- running away from it and gives pause they're supporting the interim chief and support this but delaying the use of force opposite and with transparency it bothers me we don't know about the candidates and their qualifications and we want to know who applied with the tract record and for the body worn cameras i want to know will they be worn by the under cover officers as well? those are my questions and comments. thank you. >> thank you. just a couple of clarifications. one is we can't legally -- based on the california constitution on the advice of the city attorney that they reside in san francisco and you can go back and check.

it's not a policy commission by the commission. we said it's highly desirable but not able to say it's a qualification. we had a public process in what we're looking for and in every job process there are reasons it's confidential and we realize it's frustrating. a lot of places they select a chief don't have a commission but a mayor and a board and it's the system and it's frustrating and there are reasons why we're moving in the way we are. >> i have feedback with the transparency. i think we're going to talk about it and let's put it on the agenda next week it and go to plan b and ask them if they're willing to have their names disclosed and it has to go through the commission and we

haven't put it on the agenda yet to do that. >> thank you commissioners. >> next speaker. >> i am karen fleshman and co-founder for san franciscans for police accountability and the mario woods coalition and i am glad to see the civil grand jury report on the agenda and thank you and want just the crime one and thank you for agendizing it. i have a question for you ms. hicks in the blue ribbon panel it says that not a single investigation of an officer resulted in more than ten day suspension since 2012. >> the public comment is not the opportunity to provide comments but go ahead.

>> in the report civil grand jury recommendation eight and the significant recommendation that calls for a joint task of the sheriff's office and da office and occ and da's office and representative of the community that the sequential investigation and you coming in after the fact is not an efficient use of anyone's time and causing a lot of confusion in the community and we can't regard these investigations as being not biased and i noticed you didn't comment in the letter on the grand jury report and the other question i have for you is what is going on with investigating and disciplining the sfpd officers who engaged with sex with the sex worker in

east bay. four oakland police officers have been terminated and eight others disciplined but i haven't heard anything from this commission about our officers involved in it and i encourage transin the -- -- transparency in the chief search. >> next speaker good evening and welcome back. >> commissioners and ladies and gentlemen of the audience good evening. it's interesting the last speaker brought up about the four police officers in san francisco that had sex with a minor. i'm not here to speak about that issue today. i am here to talk about one item. we had a various police reports today about the number of felonies and misdemeanors in the city and county of san francisco and particularly officers

involved in shootings. a lot of the public at large feels this is not just a shooting with a misguided officer but it's murder. anytime you shoot somebody without a gun or you thought he had a gun it's murder. the majority of these police officers are still on the payroll of the sfpd for whatever reason? i don't know. one of the officers that unloaded two 14 pot clips killed someone years ago the same way and on 6th street. i happened to be a block away at that time but briefly i brought today i read both the reports: the occ one -- it makes me laugh my head off and cite officers for technical items but nothing about a

officer choking someone in a cell and it's not worth of adjudication. when you read the report i guess want you to also read the about times on the black and white murder problem in the united states done by police officers that came out here a couple of weeks ago. it also goes into police officer trauma because we know it's a tough job, a very tough job. the suicide rate of police officers is one notch below veterans of the united states army, navy and air force. i leave you with that. >> thank you. >> there's ten copies. you can hand them out. >> thank you. thank you sergeantshaw. next speak. >> thank you for the opportunity to address the commission and the chief as well. i guess as a concerned

citizen i travel around the globe actually working with company it is and clients and teams that i help to actually do some -- >> >> i say discrimination and diversity and awareness training and development and it's not just the training part which is more behavior modification but helping them to additional the actions and processes that need to happen infrastructurely to help people do things differently and this my first time attending was last week and i go around the world doing this stuff and things are happening in my backyard that i haven't paid attention to and that i would like to pay attention and a suggestion to the chief. i know we have the selection process going on and maybe a 90 day process. it may be longer. what is the purpose of waiting to do something now, to do

something in the interim? i mean when a took a cursory glance at the blue ribbon report and the civil grand jury report there were common prevalent common denominators that can be done. you don't have to wait for a new chief or you take the official chief role. why not start now? i believe there were changes cited in the report and the cops report will agree with that and i would like that to start now and in terms of exploring what could be done with the current chief and your leadership team to just start looking at some of the things now before january. thank you. >> thank you. and next week there will be a full report from the policing principle bureau and some you heard tonight and we will get a full r. good

evening ms. brown. are you next? good evening ms. brown. >> >> it is one thing to anticipate a death because of old age and sickness -- can i stop. it is another to experience the violent death of a loved one. since 2004 san

francisco has experienced an unprecedented number of homicides. 60% of the homicide victims are people of color. their loved ones living in neighborhoods of scarcity and neglect must deal with their personal tragedies while at the same time facing the crime and violence of the unsafe neighborhoods that surround them every day.

>> if anyone has any information into the murder of awebrae awecosta there is an anonymous hot line or anyone in

the video. >> good evening commissioner, cheap cheap. chief chaplin. this is a comment on the next chief. because mental health working group and intervention board and member i had a chance to meet with every chief since chief [inaudible] because of the training program. of all the chiefs i met the most approachable chief has been toney chaplin and he was the only one to visit our working group, the only one of all the chiefs in terms get meetings with him and reach out he has been accessible and because of that he has my support. i believe he has the support of many members of our mental health working group in the cit program so i think those are pluses to be considered. i know you have to be a selection process but from my personal

experience working with our chief i have been really impress said and i want to thank him for the support of the problem and accessibility. >> thank you. next speaker. good evening sir and welcome. >> tom gilberty, the acting chief is very close to the new information. not going to fight it. wants to work with it. it's a boone for him and for us especially if what they're saying about data is helpful as it's going to be and the chief's report i wondered would it be impossible to count the number of bullets fired by the police force during the course of a week or in between? i would imagine there are weeks that no

bullets are fired you know. it would be interesting. i think it would be good. again the report and when the police -- there's a victim shot by police i think the coroner's report should be part of this commission meeting. i want to thank oakland. it seems like they have crossed the sea. moses has arrived and many men. i hope the outside expert works with locally grown up kids from our san francisco neighborhood. you have an expert. he should be able to teach what he knows. kids that growing up in this city know the streets better than anybody. let's go into our local recruitment as much as possible. cameras -- i'm going to reopen that again. i believe

-- the public need to see the videos. when you hold back video starting with way back when kennedy was shot the only video we have -- all the other film in that place was confiscated by the fbi and we have seen nothing. whoever controls the media, the visual and right now in south dakota and the pipeline and if they shut down the cameras control the video. >> thank you. any further public comment? hearing none public comment is closed. sergeant please call the next item. >> item 2 and discussion and possible action regards civil grand jury of the fatal sfdd officer involved shootings june 2016.

>> i will refer this item to commissioner mazzucco. >> thank you commissioner loftus. we were asked to meet with go over the grand jury report that you have a copy of and we went through the grand jury report. we look the at the recommendations made by the grand jury to the police commission about what given the testimony they heard, some recommendations they had about how we should handle off involved shootings in terms of publicity and timeliness. >> >> there is a common theme that is transparency and timeliness so we went through the recommendations and we as a commission speak as a whole not one so we haven't had the opportunity to go before the board of supervisors and explain hour position and we need to meet tonight and look at the recommendations and we have ideas similar to what the police department responded to. a lot of the responses are dealing

with -- we will wait to hear from the doj and some things are in place and other it is are not possible based upon laws and we will go through this and look at it and i have draft responses that we put together and we could go through them quickly and what you want to do as a commission but the concern with the grand jury is more about timeliness. there is concerns about town hall meetings, press conferences and it goes towards transparency but there is a strong concern there is not enough information getting out there and more importantly it's taking way too long. we will explain as you can look at this very little has to do with the commission. in fact the timeliness issue goes back towards the agencies involved and candidly the district attorney's office so we could only do so much but before we hear a case the da's has to

send in the final letter and something we dealt with so it's anne issue with the commission since i have been on it it takes a long time for the investigations to close. we have seen circumstances and in san mateo county and something about their office and all options and the grand jury want things to move faster but we have to do things right and let's look at the recommendations and in your packet there is are findings and the first finding is that because the sfpd consistently doesn't meet the time frame in its own general order and the investigations of the incidents are completed and the general order creates false expectations for the citizens of san francisco so we i have draft response here but the key is in the second paragraph. most is outside our control and another

important factor is that when these guidelines were put in place by them there are issues involving -- there's now technology now. it takes time for dna testing and the new technology in place so again this is all outside our control and we are entire dependent what we get back from the police departments. the occ does the independent investigation and hinges how long it takes the district attorney's office to complete their investigation so commissioners take a look at this draft paragraph and if there's any input to what you would like to see added to it please feel free. >> so i think this first -- you know just to put a finer point i think we want to thank the civil grand jury for the amount of work they put into this and you made this point commissioner there were recommendations of the da's office the police department and the occ and a couple relating

to the commission and mostly around public disclosure. this issue seems consistent with more about the police department not meeting time frames and i believe our response is appropriate here. i mean we've gone over this for years and years and unfortunately to close the cases we require the district attorney to make a charging decision that is running at two, three years average so and i think we outline here and it's helpful that one of the determinations when it's ultimately in policy whether it's lawful and that is the decision the district attorney so i don't have corrections to this section. i don't know colleagues if there are any suggestions here. >> may i? >> yeah. >> i think it sounds right but it strikes me need to amend the general orders and the -- [inaudible] (low audio). perhaps we need to correct it to say that the police

investigation should be completed within a certain amount of time and forwarded to the da's office without a final conclusion. >> i actually think you're right that part of the -- it might be looking back and i don't know if there's -- commissioner mazzucco if you discussed this and with those orders did you think there was room for clarification that manages expectations or closely to what we know and the visit investigations on the police side are wrapped up but linger with the district attorney's office. >> >> . the police department is meeting the goal. we haven't had an issue with the san francisco police department where they submitted their reports in a timely fashion so again the false expectation and the public cease this and the police department has to have it done by this time but after that it's out of our control and that

what it boim boils down to. >> >> i think when it's done and submit toed office and it's a version much done but it's not done until the da does the charging and it's confusing for me as a commissioner and for the public too but it's good to see -- i don't know if other commissioners want to weigh in on that and the finding is that the police department -- that's my experience they comply with the timelines but there is an issue with the perception with the office. >> you will see later on one of the recommendations on the website is where the police department is at with the investigations so we request show so we can show one transparency and they should

have a study to streamline the investigation process with the goal of reducing the overall time to conduct the full investigation and the recommendation reviewed by the u.s. department of justice through cops and we met with them -- actually this issue came up. commissioner loftus was there and this is one of the more global where we're looking at best practices and in some jurisdictions for example when there is an officer involved shooting the state agency does the investigation separate from the da and the doj and/or the sheriff's office and we're waiting to hear the best practices from the doj and again everyone wants to streamline the process but keep in mind the only thing we can do as the commission is control how the police department does their part. commissioners do you agree with that?

>> yeah. i actually was wondering -- yeah, it makes sense this is an issue where if there is a revision to a d go that would come from u.s. doj because we have discussed how to address issues around o iss. >> and the next recommendation is what commissioner hwang was talking about and changing d goes to reflect a different timeline and we're meeting our timelines. i don't know if we need to give our department anymore time before they support the report to the district attorney's office or be careful about giving less time because they're crucial investigations. commissioners anything like that. dr. marshall. >> i remember when we got these timelines down. we have improved so much. at times this is history here but getting these timelines -- and again i

-- if you can unravel the issue what happens when it's out of our hands please do so. that's the real issue here. how many times have i said it doesn't have a commission and someone speed them up. they bring it all here. no, i don't know if you can make it tighter -- [inaudible] it's that simple. >> again this is more of a global report from the grand jury and about the occ and the da's office and the police department and i think the grand jury they get these things in a vacuum and they did great work but i think it's very difficult thing for them to separate out who is involved and get our roles and the police department. there was a recommendation for example -- the next one that we support the occ's funding

request for proposed budget for transcription. all said and done. nothing to say here. we have done that so thank you. the next recommendation the police commission should make official policy to hold press conferences as soon as possible after each o is incident. we speak with some of the members of the command staff were present in the meeting when and when not to have a press conference. that is out of the elm of the commission. it's the police department's prerogative to do that and we will talk about town hall meetings later and let's be transparent. obviously the public expects to hear from the chief or a designee and the incident that took place and the worst case scenario is not say anything at all but be careful what we say given the parameters and there is a recommendation with the

current practice and you know it will be implemented when it's warrant reasonable and no two situations are alike and commissioners take a look at that and it's up to the prerogative of the police chief to do what they want. >> my issue whether it's a best practice to do. my thought is why wouldn't say i imagine doj would have a position on this. i think thoi thought san francisco previously was doing a good thing and sharing the information. i know it's controversial and causes other issues and they're prejudging the investigation and maybe they think it's a best practice and commissioner the recommendation has not been -- needs further analysis and then we talk about it reviewed by u.s. doj. >> (encoder dropped)

and we should put in there about the doj and it's a great idea. >> my suggestion is recommendation requires further analysis and use the language -- yeah, include this recommendation is reviewed by u.s. doj and we can include that information because i think it's helpful information to include

in there but maybe under the rubric of requiring further analysis because we certainly don't want to be in a situation and we're not doing something and doj says it's a recommendation and we do that. >> when i met with the doj they said it was the best practice we were doing and the chief had a standing policy to meet and talk after a shooting and i think the community complained that some of the information provided seemed to reach a conclusion. they didn't want a conclusion but just the facts so anyway i think we should change it and it's under investigation. i think we should provide information. the department should provide information. >> [inaudible] [off mic] actually i am less concerned about a press conference being held but what people want out of the press conference and the frustration may be that even if the press conference is held i am not getting what i want to

hear so is that considered at all? or just the fact -- if a press conference is held and this is what i know and what i say -- is that the issue or is the issue the information i get out of the press conference? did that come up? >> yeah this initial issue is just having a press conference. for example i was looking at this last week and watching the news the other day and officer involved shooting in the south bay and we know there is a shooting and helicopter and no one has told us anything and it's been six hours and that's the flip side and lead to speculation and then the issue of what the chief can say. it's not necessarily the content. >> so maybe -- so that was a suggestion for a change on that recommendation. i do want to keep going to recommendation 12b. >> [inaudible]

>> i'm sorry. >> that's okay. >> sorry. >> i apologize. sfpd and the police commission should make policy for them to post updates on the website as soon as possible after each o is incident and we agree with that so the question is what do we put as the update? and that's a policy we will implement in the future. i want to know if there is disagreement to that and the content? seeing none. >> i would include that -- doj because we is not the civil grand jury report to doj so they might weigh in and say we're reviewing best practices of the other agencies. the fact that we have collaborative reform going takes care of that and they can let us know what the best practice is. >> the next prsmses 12.a. sfpd and the commission should hold town meetings a week after the incident and this

recommendation requires further analysis and i think that's my take on. under chief suhr for the last five years there was immediately a town hall meeting in the district or location near by where the shooting occurred and it's been met with mixed results. the chief would make a statement and presentation from someone from the command staff. we as commissioners would show the community we're listening but we heard things and we're there with the staff at the press conference. it look it is like we're -- looks like we're siding with the presentation with the chief or the police department and ultimately we're the body that decides whether or not there should be charges administratively against the officers if in fact it doesn't pan out so this is a work in process and as which ares we like to be there for the town hall meetings and it's good for some communities and incident it is felt comfortable about it and

more information and what can be shared. >> >> and there are restrictions and candidly i think it's within the chief's prerogative whether they want a meeting. they're responsible to the community and there are recommendations here about other methods of doing it by sending out the district captain, dealing with people they know in the community, people in the community and sending the message out that way so this is a work in process and it's going to need some analysis. >> thank you commissioner. can we add doj to this one too and requires further analysis as a reference point. >> i should add them to everything and they're the subject matter experts. >> especially it's somewhere we don't know yet and requires further nal. i think that would be helpful and helpful for the grand grapd to track where it goes and if there is agreement there and action and track it. >> i would be interested to know how the doj feels about this because i want to know if

they think that the town halls have made things better or worse because i have been -- the ones i have been to i definitely think -- if you ask me i think the chief should look at the pums of what is going on before he decides to do. the ones i have seen and i have been at all of them and i don't know if they actually made things better so that's my initial thought and comment and i would want to see that recommendation about that. >> yeah. >> trying to calm things down. you know -- i don't know if it necessarily does that. >> i agree and having attended many of them there are members of the community that want to talk and share and groups from the outside that don't have the same interest and the press loves coming there and even if the chief says five or six things about the event the press covers people outside operating on misinformation and it's dicey

and we need to hear from the doj about that. >> i admire the chief going out into those -- yeah. >> commissioner dejesus. >> you guys go back and forts i want to say something and i think you misspoke and whether we will bring charges. >> >> i don't think you meant to say that. we do discipline and not bring. charges and i would like to know the best practices of community meetings and inquiry into that or maybe the doj will tlts 'll it us. >> yeah, it's an open issue. >> this moves into the next recommendation which is 12.b. the police chief, the supervisor for the district in which the incident occurred and da and occ and the police commission and members of the task force and see the recommendation -- [inaudible] a and b should attend the town hall meetings and acknowledge the seriousness

of the situation so again this is something we just talked about and it's recommendation is requires further analysis but i think that's similar to what we said and it's clear that the commission takes every officer involved shooting seriously and all of the agencies and the occ and the town hall concept needs to be reviewed and curious what the doj has to say. >> [inaudible] >> so we will add doj to this one as well and further analysis in the body of the paragraph. >> the next recommendation 13.a is the sfpd and the police commission made policy to release names of all officers involved within each incident within ten days and that's the policy and implemented and that's been done and gets into the next recommendation you know essentially the only time the

names are not released is -- this is recommendation 13.c. it's been implemented if there is a credible threat to the officers. if there is information that the police department has that says that the officers may be at risk there's a threat from the community or elsewhere and if it's credible then the police department has has the discretion not to release the names and that is a recommendation already implemented. so the grand jury made the recommendation and it's been implemented. recommendation r .15 the police commission or o is investigation oversight task force and in addition to summarizes the findings and conclusions and investigations recommending this all under r 8.a and b and examine the fatal incidents with a view of lessons learned and

answering the following questions. what circumstances contributed to this? and the interactions of the officer and the suspect handled differently so the loss of life didn't occur. what lessons should be tried and lessons and learns and policies revised or reviewed because ofs t incident and the recommendation hasn't been implemented but in the future and reviewed by the department of justice collaborative review team and compared to best practices and that's the recommendation at this point and time but candidly that's what we have been doing and the police department does that in terms of each officer involved shooting. they look at it and like they monday morning quarter backed around it. commissioner dejesus. >> it says publish their finds

and i don't know what they mean and share the highlights in the town hall. we don't do that now that i know of and something that the doj is looking at and instead "maybe implemented for further analysis" because we don't do this. >> yeah, i also think that doj said in the initial with feedback of useful force and pulled things from the president's task force and one was a serious incident review board. i think they're looking at firearms discharge review board and our system with the commissioners being the ultimate decision making about discipline, the trade off not to be a vote be member there and role for community and i agree that we should say that the recommendation maybe implemented in the future and i think the answer is sufficient around doj. >> and they said we should have completely independent investigation and not have the department investigate itself

so i am waiting how they will follow up on that so i think this is up in the air. >> commissioner hwang. >> i thought it was partially done. there was a process and the sergeant makes recommendations out of the firearm discharge review board and had this and take a change in policy -- >> [inaudible] >> (talking over one another). >> after the fatal o is on market street where the suspect was able to take out the officer's gun by using a downward swipe and immediately implemented the placement of the guard over the top of the weapon to stop and defeat that maneuver so there is and during the firearms discharge review board there are recommendations so it's partially done but again this looks to be a request for

formalized process that wraps up everything in the police department and the commission and everyone has done in one report to report out. >> it might be good to include commissioner a couple of lines we have been looking at policy, the process to make sure that policy changes don't linger following an officer involved shooting but i definitely agree that the mechanism missing i think chief you said that and mow how we xeekt with the public and we're doing it but how we we communicating to trust the public. thank you so much for taking the lead on this and doing all this work. as everyone knows following it is agendas there is a tremendous work before us so thank you for taking lead. we will take public comments that maybe some of the changes can be made and is it possible to bring it back next week with a clean copy for action for the commission to vote on it and see the changes? >> [inaudible] [off mic] >> yes, as long as -- we have

a meeting tomorrow with the sub-committee of the board of supervisors. they asked that we bring a draft so i can make those changes tomorrow but let them know it's a draft -- >> final approval for the commission. >> and bring it back on the 21st. >> thank you. >> let's go ahead and take public comment on this item. public comment on item 2. good evening. welcome back. >> [inaudible] [off mic] page three. i don't have a problem saying it requires further analysis but disturbed to hear the discussion about transparency. it's difficult but it's incredibly important and i know the town hall meetings are uncomfortable and anger. they serve a pressure valve purpose and give a place to show their anger. 50 years ago a african-american man was killed in hunters point leaving a scene of a stolen car and shot in the back and riots in hunlt

hunt and national guard was called out and tanks were going down the street. we need to keep going on transparency and to remind you the president's task force says you need transparency and accountability to build public trust and legitimacy and this department responded and we told the town hall meetings and enhance and trust and engagement, even angry engagement and dialogue and conclusion. now four months since jessica williams was killed and there wasn't a town hall meeting then and it got disruptive. i would argue it's related to trust and the accuracy of information and the spin. some is people are going to be angry after the incidents and they have a right. you want them to express it non violently

even if it's yelling and go back to the practice and start releasing information now. just four months after she was killed we won't know how much bullets were fired or where the officer was fired? the report was ree leased and why don't we have that information and transparency is important when it's most difficult and that's what you're talking about here. >> thank you. next speaker. again this is public comment on item 2. >> [inaudible] [off mic] >> [inaudible] johnson and appeal the court hearing that sfpd should be inclined to be sharing information that -- [inaudible] policies changing because that's the main

important thing of dna is one of the reasons for a professional [inaudible]. we should make sure the that the policy -- my policies are even [inaudible] together on this so we don't want [inaudible]. is tht reason why? it is causes a lot of chaos [inaudible] police department not even in the might mind -- [inaudible] police. they have -- not be in there and no way because of the numbers

are the same and oakland and i asked them to change the court hearing and i haven't heard no reply and i tried to talk to -- i had another lawyer i talked to this about this and see if they would work and live again because this is what it's all about and this is really -- [inaudible] try and do sfpd -- mistrust. >> thank you ms. johnson want next speaker. >> welcome back mr. gilbert. >> yes. grand jury needs to be quick in this day and age especially with the police investigating unit, professional investigating unit. they should be able to handle facts and

figures. the coroner's report, the ballistics test should be released immediately to the city and again brought here. and then the question of the videos i believe we're tossing that up in the air for more. they need to be part of the release almost as soon as possible. we're talking confidence. the criminal justice system on the whole needs to be refurbished. thank you. >> thank you want next speaker. >> >> welcome back. >> hi. thank you. i remember this from when we were trying to get chief suhr terminated that one of the main reasons we were seeking his removal was the way he handled officer involved shootings and i remember quoting from the u.s. doj from

president bam's 21st century task force and "when serious incidents occur including those involving alleged police misconduct agencies should communicate with citizens and the media swiftly openly and neutrally respecting areas where the law requires confidentiality" and i know in new york city when a shooting occurs when the mayor and the chief of police conduct a press conference together and that's the stature that such an act is held at and the mayoral level and neutrally describe the facts as they know them to be at that point and don't try to exxon rate the officers involved and i think it's a really important practice in officer involved shootings. i think still recommendation eight in the grand jury report about forming the joint task force in officer

involved shootings i don't think you spoke to that one. >> that's not a recommendation for the commission. >> okay. but i thought the district attorney received enough budget to have now an independent area of the district attorney that will handle these officer involved shootings. that was my understanding. >> we don't really respond to that but yes they received that today. >> okay. i also want to give the fliers. we doing an event on september 24 on the blue ribbon panel and life for the commissioners to come to that event. >> thank you. next speaker. >> good evening again commissioners, chief. i was actually one of the people -- david elliot louis here and interviewed by the civil grand jury and i will make some brief comments and recommendations i

made involved these shootings. i believe there should be a town hall and unfortunate there wasn't one after the jessica williams incident and any video collected from the community either cell phones or surveillance cameras be disclosed to the public and witness statements, civilian witness statements should be disclosed fully and the last town hall that chief suhr held he released witness statements but only selected statements and parts of the statements that were convenient. i think you would build a lot of trust if the full witness statements were released. sometimes the data available and from the discovery process and litigation but why

wait for that? the community commenced through statements or surveillance. if the department has it share it out. i knowledge you will build -- i think you will build trust and show that the shooting is justified, maybe not and build trust. i hope you consider releasing this additional information after any officer involved shootings and hopefully no more and if there are the more you say the better in terms of community trust. thank you for your consideration. >> thank you. any further public comment on this matter? hearing none public comment is closed. sergeant please call the next item. >> item 3 and discussion and action to adopt general order personal use of social media action. >> colleagues this has been subject of decision of the commission for i would say at least a year, the need to give

direction. i know that chief suhr issued a directive a bulletin giving clarity and we have someone here to do this and while it's on for action it's of such significance i think we should think about it and ask questions and put it over if folks need more time and not prepared to vote tonight so with that deputy chief. >> [inaudible] [off mic] commissioners, chief, director hicks. i will give a overview of the personal general order social media. over the years several bulletins were

issued for issues -- discussing issues on emerging social media platforms and instagram and twitter and facebook et cetera and issues officers utilize tg officer them as members of the police department so the department bulletins were issued and started development of the general order on this issue. the department consulted with several stakeholders, the office of citizen complaints, the city attorney's office, poa and developed the draft bulletin. we consulted with the city attorneys to make sure we weren't infringing on first amendment rights with the general order. the intent of this order is prevent members from under mining investigations, from impacting the department's credibility with the conduct they engage in on social media and also to make sure they're not under mieping

or interfering with official police business as they present themselves as police department members on the personal social media so if you look through the order you will see there are specific restrictions regarding members use of posting on social media in uniform, posting logos insignias et cetera and the focus of this general order is the conduct of the member not necessarily the speech. we just want to make sure that's clear because again throughout the development of this general order we want to make sure we weren't infringing on individual members first amendment rights so the department did develop this draft and forward to the police commission for you to consider and it's the department of position we recommend that you do approve this order. with they open it up to any questions. >> deputy chief who has credibilitied to the creation

of -- contributed to the creation of this? >> it was several members within the police department, the city attorney's office, poa and occ. >> okay. so the occ has weighed in on this version and provided recommendations? okay. well great. i see samra coming up. >> yes. we've had opportunity to review and provide feedback on this department general order. >> and any -- in your estimation are there any external stakeholders or folks we would benefit from just making sure we covered everything here? this is an emerging area. >> i didn't consult with outside community based

organizations. what we did internally look at situations that the agency or police department had with problematic behaviors and the social media general order covered those instances and i looked at other jurisdictions and their social media examples they were using and thought what the department had done was in many ways better than some of the other jurisdictions and it was a thoughtful document. >> do you recall which other jurisdictions you reviewed their policies? because that was one of my questions. who else has a policy and what is their policy? >> i apologize off hand i don't have the names but i looked at larger departments as well as some in the midwest who had recently -- i believe i looked at albuquerque and seattle and i believe new york. i'm sorry. i did look at a number of them. >> okay. deputy chief this

document also i believe this went through the traditional way to get policy and at the final stages so has this gone through the meet and confer process with the police officers association. >> yes it had. >> and any changes we make would trigger that process to reopen? >> if it's significant yes but maybe not and have the discussion but not trigger meet and confer. >> okay. i have some questions but commissioner dejesus. >> so i have been hearing about this social media and for some reason i kept tying it with the racist text messages and reading it different. it's not compromising any investigation and things like that and so yeah it makes sense to me so when i go back and the only back about prohibiting discrimination and retaliation and -- [inaudible]

good to attach that 1107 for discrimination and harassment so i can see and i am concerned about the racist texts and i am not sure about that and it's just referenced here. i'm not sure if that 1107 would include posting on social media or private texts information that out right racist and homophobic or interpreted that way. and so i don't know if 1107 covers that so i had a vague -- bigger picture of social media. when i read it i get it now but i am wondering if it addresses the other issues that we had that are prominent and i thought it would be covered in the social media one. >> it

addresses (paused). >> social media that you think is protected that they need to know specifically -- they can be subject to discipline but yeah everything falls under 2.01 and i thought we were going to address that and i guess we're not. >> text messages are not social media. >> i said both. >> i guess for purposes of this -- it's interesting because i don't put the text messages in this rubric and what is going on facebook and twitter and i fine line of balancing someone's first amendment right but with the extension that officers are held to a higher standard on and off the job and that is clarification and i understand

your points. the point is we're trying to make it clear what is expected and to me text messages are a different form of communication that would not be -- this policy wouldn't cover it specifically. commissioner. >> thank you very much. i have been asking for this and watching the process and i have actually spoken to some of the federal agents. this is a really 11. >> >> it's well put together. again the issue that you touched on and the outside group they tauped to chime in is the aclu and when the officer's first amendment rights go into this and conduct unbecoming of an officer and delicate balance and our officers are held on to a higher standard and i thought they would look at it and where it merges and the disciplinary and we didn't hear from them

and i have to thank samra marion and the department and we have agreement on a pretty good document -- >> [inaudible] i'm sorry. members are prohibit the from posting on personal social media photographs of themselves in uniform or display. now, i understand that not to be promotions or ceremonies and citations and the like, but what about the ordinary performance of course of duty? would that be prohibited? [inaudible] >> correct. it is. it's presented. >> [inaudible] [off mic] >> okay. >> yeah. city attorney wants to chime in. >> i just want to make sure i

understood your question because i may have misheard and subsection 3 b the last line says the prohibitions doesn't apply to official ceremonies and some are listed but it's not exhaustive so if it's an official department -- >> i understand that so if a officer is out in the street performing the ordinary course of duty and snaps a picture and give the officer the picture they may not post it themselves. >> the officer may not post a picture with the department's insignia. that's what the department is able to control and our badges and anything that identifies them part of sfpd. >> maybe commissioner it's the limitation of department ceremonies. that sounds like maybe there's a reason -- that seems like pretty specific.

>> correct. during the discussion that came up that some of the officers that want to celebrate a promotion or hired they would give them that limited opportunity if they so choose to post it but if they're engaged on duty activities we don't want them represented as on the personal social media and posting that along with all the other activities they may be engaged in off duty. >> yeah. i have a question. do you have more questions? >> yeah, but i need to read this closer and do research. >> yeah 3a members are prohibited from any personal use of social media on duty except as official duties authorized. "use of social media" is vague to me and i on break and use my personal iphone -- i'm not on

facebook and twitter is social media and i am scrolling and i like the occ was doing something and i like it technically i used it on the job but it's my personal phone and i liked it so i guess use of social som seemed vague to me. so somebody that did that is in violation of the policy. that's the way i read it. i don't know if there is thought to it. >> if it's commission it's not personal use but they're doing the business of the department. >> i guess for me and i am at northern station in my car. i am on a break but maybe sitting there and people in the world look at their phones all the time and i presume officers do that and on the personal phones and i presume the person is on a break using social media most people past time using social media and i just don't want to set up a standard for officers that isn't clear and how do we

define use. sergeant you're shaking your head. do you have insight here? >> the attorney asked me a question whether we get breaks. we're paid for the whole day. i will let the chief answer but -- >> that's correct commissioners. so officers on duty they're on duty throughout the shift and paid and we i have a prohibition conducting personal business on duty and they're prohibited from conducting personal business like facebook while on duty. >> [inaudible] [off mic] >> okay. that is quite a standard to hold but i understand now if you have a personal phone officers -- are

we clear with them at the academy and ongoing and are the captains enforcing that? >> we will make sure that's understood. >> okay. yes commissioner hwang. >> so if you have an officer on duty and somebody comes up to them and says "can i take a picture with you?" is that okay if they're in uniform. >> they don't get to post it. >> what about if the other person posts it tags them and the language should we have members are prohibited from posting or causing to be posted or the at a function and a friend takes a picture and tags them because there are officer safety concerns i am reading into it -- >> i'm sorry. can you repeat that. >> seems part of the philosophy is safety reason and don't want them identified as sfpd so do we want it more

passive and on face you're not posting but others tagging and you in uniform and identified publicly. >> >> it defeats the public safety part -- i think the philosophy of this general order. >> that's part of it. to answer the question if a citizen wants to take a picture and in uniform. i think what we're trying to do officers in the social environment and other officers and tag each other and now during a public records search you can identify who other under cover officers are and for the broader review you have to think of the officers under mining their ability to conduct department business. they're posting their images or themselves in uniform on their social media pages which has a running history of their conduct and then they may be subject to

subpoena or those their social media page is subject to subpoena and in court environment and uses to discredit them on the stand what they post on social media and educated members everything is a matter of public record or available for public review and brought in to under mine anything they do as a police officer when testifying in court or any other type of law enforcement relate the activities. >> >> but to answer the question -- (low audio) ([off mic] once they have possession it's their property and can do what they want. this is directed at the officers in possession of the photographs themselves but when others take them it's completely out of the

realm and control of the officers and the policy -- [inaudible] [off mic] district the conduct -- direct the conduct of the private citizens. >> i think commissioner hwang brings up an interesting point what you can't be responsible for but it's on your page and tagged and other people can comment too. was there thought and case of bias or homophobic comments and not whether or not the officer said it but what is the response was if they found messages to be racist or homophobe ib and especially the their rank and made it clear they're the views that person held and how is it contemerated on facebook. the officer has a facebook page and maybe approved

message at a sergeant or something. offensive. >> >> ceremony and offensive response is given by the uncle and could be offensive. was there any thought given to what if anything the officer should do? is the officer not responsible for what is said on the page? again they're just questions because these things are playing out every day so i don't know if that was contemplated. >> in a scenario like that we want to follow up with and bring the officer in and question and determine if he holds those views, if he is part of that conversation so that would definitely trigger an inquiry or investigation. >> got it. and that's the other question and this didn't specifically indicate what happens as a result and given it's going to be hard to figure out the process for -- how we -- obviously we're -- we're not

staffed to monitor everyone's facebook account nor are we and i don't know if there is anything given here how these are going to be investigated or audited or any process there? >> they come to our attention through various channels, methods, other members, the community, however they come to our attention we will investigate it. >> okay. >> but we won't be actively -- [inaudible] social media's media to look at things [off mic] and just because the text messages are discovered and generally another investigation that allows access entry into these areas through a search warrant, but that's generally -- [inaudible] [off mic] we will want be actively going into -- we will not actively going into people's accounts. >> under the general order the department is prohibited from looking at the facebook accounts

in general. >> has doj reviewed this one? >> no, they have not. >> okay. i don't know if it would be useful to get feedback from them. that would be my suggestion before we finally adopt it, but other comments? questions? colleagues. okay. so my suggestion we be that we advance to next week if possible and for further discussion and possible action. >> [inaudible] [off mic] >> final draft and possible action on that final draft. any concerns, suggestions? no. okay. thank you. we will do public comment. i'm going to do public comment on item 3 and general public comment. come on up. thank you deputy chief and samra. good evening and welcome. >> good evening. my name is joy johnson and the issue of

this investigation was a court hearing that was done in washington, d.c. and this is . in 2006 -- [inaudible] and on that draft is something that is able [inaudible] and the reason why a lot of people are trying to find out -- [inaudible] is because he's done this on purpose. you don't realize this is a court hearing done in washington, d.c.. we need to pay attention to it and ask [inaudible] because this is no laughing matter. and our life and to do this our world

in which i have already since 48 years of frightened and battled every day to retain life in the world and nobody realizes that [inaudible] done on this process and this is why you know something that needs to be [inaudible] real fast and [inaudible] says is not true. they're lies. i'm not going to rat on something like that. [inaudible] taking our freedom is what we need to psychologically [inaudible] with and what we have endured and why you feel like that? because you shouldn't be feeling like that because freedom has lot to do

with our new change of reality and we're going to keep doing this then you got a problem. you need to get with somebody professional that is going to you know really in line with this deal because this is no laughing matter. nothing in the world that we have built on we did real hard working because this extra time for our planets and our -- [inaudible] in our hearts, in our lungings -- lung kidneys and hearts and the police department has a lot of. they don't realize that

that. they need -- [inaudible] what this is about [inaudible] and what goes into -- [inaudible] it has a lot to do how bodies are made and dna and everything -- >> thank you. >> -- and how it's done and that has a lot to do with reality, not something that we want because we babies. we want [inaudible] that goes behind it. [inaudible] nothing like that. an