flexibility. the remaining balance is written off and shows up, the remaining amount goes into that bucket for adjustments. for population where they do not have insurance, those charges eventually end up in that bucket as well. >> commissioner veronese: so, if these numbers are pretty constant? over the years? >> for the most part. in general it doesn't change. in some cases they have been reduced. >> commissioner veronese: are we running that or is that general?

>> it's been between 20-25%. >> commissioner veronese: i'm talking about the losses. is it possible that we have lost a billion dollars over 10 years? >> potentially yes, the amount of write-offs and adjustments to that degree. yeah. you're in that neighborhood. why are we giving out free healthcare to people if we're not looking to get it back. there's probably a huge number of the population a that is homeless and we just started tracking the homeless related calls and should give us more data on what the numbers probably look like. but this is almost a third of the budget.

we have a long wish list of things we would like to have. we wouldn't have to go to the mayor's office and begging for extra things if we actually had this. this is a third of our budget. i'm not saying this is on you, i'm not accusing you of doing this, but there has to be a better way of doing business where we're losing over 10 years, billions of dollars. like give it to them for free because it should be a service we have or actually collect it. i think muni went through that debate as well. that's probably something that we really need to look at the number. it's not a number to ignore because it could be doing other things. we need to dive into the number and figure out how it's

happening and if it's revenue or a big waste of time. if it is a big waste of time, then this should be the number we start negotiations with the mayor's office, hey look, a billion dollars every 10 years we're losing because of the great service we provide to the city that is necessary. >> just a few comments on that, we set our fees as the total cost of providing ems services. we're talking everything from the staff, ambulances, supplies, engine response, i think some of those -- i don't think the number has drastically increased. some of the costs have been associated and absorbed in the general fund. that's been the strategy to provide the services and care. some of that, a big portion of that i don't think you're going to get anything from because they're mainly for medicare and

medical patients. given the state rules, for those $18,000 on an account, we don't have recourse for that. one program ground emergency transport, that allows leverage -- program to leverage federal funds to supplement some of the reimbursement to the tune of $2 million a year for those calls. there are a number of programs that have been vetted or in process at the state level to kind of identify it. i wouldn't say by any means are we alone in this issue. given patient demographics, that various across jurisdictions but they don't reimburs for the total cost of providing

services. >> commissioner veronese: so that 20 million being paid back in the system is a mixture of people who can afford it and insurance companies. so it's 1 or 2% of the state for the number. >> correct. mainly private insurance, state and federal government and people who self-pay on their own. >> commissioner veronese: it gets more and more expensive to live in this city, doesn't it? >> absolutely. >> commissioner veronese: that's something we need to keep our eye on. moving to page 16. line 25, chief i see you have a zero budget for entertainment and promotion. >> yes. >> commissioner veronese: i'd have to say there should be some numbers in that, because i know this department does promote

itself. so we're probably just absorbing that but joking aside, that number is probably less accurate, i know we have a department that does a lot of promotions, for the health department, speaking of those guys with the $3 billion budget. so that number is probably not as realistic, right? >> i would say that's a technical category of expenditures, a lot of it is materials and supply, based on outreach and things like that, 040 materials and supplies line, it doesn't represent the efforts, it's more of a technical explanation of expenditures. >> i would add with public education for fire bureau, where we purchase materials that we use at our public safety fairs

and so forth, we make it work. >> commissioner veronese: online 29 you have maintenance service equipment. is this the amount that we are paying to central shops to fix our rigs? >> no, that's line -- on the next page -- page 17, that represents the work order amount for central shops, including the ladder shop, machine shop over there and then the maintenance and repair on our vehicles. >> commissioner veronese: we're paying $5.5 million every year to fix our rigs. we have put in as part of the budget to try to get this year -- is it right we're trying to get our own employees to fix rigs as well? >> similar to that, in regards to dpw and facility related

expenditures we have, we are requesting to have our own employees related to some of those mechanics, electricians, etc cetera and we have discussed that in previous years as well. we feel that would be a more efficient use of resources and allow the department to prioritize work as needed by the department. >> commissioner veronese: is that ask a part of our wish list not in the budget, an add-on or in this budget? >> we adhere to the instructions on no new net fte's in our budget but they're on the additional items for discussion with the mayor's budget office. >> commissioner veronese: has there been an analysis to how much we could save if we're paying $5.5 million to central shops, if we had our own person doing it? >> not -- i don't think in depth. we have discussed it in the past

and there's been a number of issues through supervision, having those types of personnel allocated to a different department. those are issues we're continuing to work with the mayor's budget on. i think the department's position is it would result overall in savings and efficiencies if there was an employee within the department's responsibility. >> commissioner veronese: we had a truck off line for two or three months at central shops, isn't that right? >> correct. so we're working closely with city administration and central shops to streamline some of the process. this doesn't necessarily represent all central shop employee work. so certain jobs, given the kind of complexities of our apparatus, they will contract out as needed to complete the work with certain certified venders, so ways of streamlining

the process is currently what we're working with the shops on. >> commissioner veronese: got it. so we're asking the city for our own central shops guy, but there are some circumstances where we send our rigs to central shops and they send it to a third party? >> correct. >> commissioner veronese: sounds pretty inefficient to me. >> there are efficiencies to be gained for sure. >> commissioner veronese: i think we need to press hard. i have been on this commission at least a year now, close to a year and this was a topic of discussion last year. i would hate to have it be a topic of discussion again next year, especially since i have been to a number of the stations -- having these things, these rigs are literally a part of the family for a lot of these guys. they live and breathe on these things. having them off line or not fixed or not working is a life safety issue and something we need to press hard on because central shops, if it's not being

as efficient as we could be, then we should just do it. i think that's the attitude we need as far as that particular individual is concerned. page 23, a brief mission of line 0114, the city should be pleased to know they're getting their $6,000 well spent on this commission. there's severe efficiencies going on in that line. there should be more volunteer hours in this department like in this commission. we can get the numbers down to $6,000. job well done commissioners. way to keep the numbers low. >> cheap labor. must be non union. >> for sure.

just one other item. i notice on page 81, you have work at stations for new kitchens, 2, 6, 8, 8, 10, all the way down to 43. is that money that is budgeted for next year. >> i failed to highlight, at the end of the budget book there before you is the capital and it budgets previously vetted at the earlier meeting in january. this is the department's budget request. that portion of funding is part of the 33 and $53 million request through the capital planning committee. that's a bit of a separate process and those requests have been submitted and we'll be meeting with capital planning to

advocate for the department. >> commissioner veronese: chief, did you want to add something? okay. so that money is money we have to get permission for, it's currently not allocated. >> correct. >> commissioner veronese: i had the pleasure of being invited to station 8 and had dinner there last monday. as i mentioned before, this is money well spent, although i think 3 $10,000 for a kitchen, you should get marble tables. >> those are estimates. there's a fuller in depth assessment on all department facility, kitchen is a subcategory they're reviewing. >> commissioner veronese: can we make sure when the department spends that type of money on the

kitchen, we're getting them refrigerators and yutensils so they're not paying for it. >> i believe that funding is for the fixed equipment or furnishing -- not furnishings, the fridges i think are covered but utensils and so forth i don't think are covered. >> so usually the dish washer and stove is supplied by the department. the refrigerators are usually supplied by the members. also when we build a new facility all the appliances are included. that's been our policy for quite a while. >> commissioner veronese: i know what's usually done but if we're going to spend $300,000 in a

kitchen, can we include everything in the kitchen? i mean is there a policy, is there a rumor a law that says we can't buy utensils and refrigerators and washing machines and these types of things that our troops could use in their stations? >> i'm not sure the answer to that, but i will say once the city or the department supplies any item to the firefighters, we're then on the hook to maintain and repair them for the life and even replace them in the future. whereas at this point, we maintain and repair washing machines -- excuse me dish washers and stoves and then at the new stations we give them that in the beginning.

>> commissioner veronese: i hear what's usually done. i hope with the amount of money spent here we can think outside the box and pay for internet and cable, i'm not stopping at kitchen. internet, cable, dishwashers, all these things people use, i don't think firefighters should have to pay for it themselves. >> we'll look at it. cable is not covered and i don't know that that would be something that -- that should be covered by the city personally. internet certainly. i hear what you're saying and we'll see what can be done. >> commissioner veronese: thank you chief. and then one final item i wanted to -- that we did discuss at the budget meeting. i looked at the chart in the document here, has an 1832, has

two under your department. >> 1823 to clarify. >> commissioner veronese: thank you chief. i'm dyslexic over here. are those in your department filled or new positions or are they vacant positions and are we getting a grant writer out of one of those positions, if not, where are we getting a grant writer this year? >> so currently one position is filled. they're not new positions. we had somebody in a long-term leave in one of them that separated. that position is open and we're currently recruiting for it and the idea is that position would work on contracts and grants to assist with those two areas that have been identified as needs for the department. that's currently what we're looking at given current resources. part of the needs assessment as

discussed here and budget committee is the need for additional position for grant writer specifically. there's not a specific for grant writers, it's usually analyst with experience or supply training to fulfill that -- those goals and that job duty. but we're simultaneously looking at current resources, what we can do to fund some type of resources for grant writing as well as at the same time advocate for additional resources. >> commissioner veronese: so what i didn't hear you say, that's going to be a grant writer. is that going to be a grant writer? >> it is anticipated that will be a part of the person's function. >> commissioner veronese: so this time next year we will have a grant writer in the department. >> we hope to expand to other personnel as well through training or through other kinds

of means to have additional grant writing resources. that position we hope to have it filled and part of that responsibility for that position will be grant writing. >> commissioner veronese: what does that mean? are you going to fill it with a grant writer? >> correct. i don't think their sole job duty is writing grants but it would be scope of that person's responsibility. >> commissioner veronese: okay. and what would that position do other than grant writing? >> grant administration as well, the financial end of it, reporting, those duties and in addition to relates to grants as well. contracting. the city has a complex contracting process and we definitely need additional resources in that area. the idea would be that person's duties would be split between grant writing, administration and contracts.

>> commissioner veronese: so most of the duties of that position will be a grant writer. grant-related. >> grant-related yes, and contracts related to grants. >> commissioner veronese: when do you anticipate having them hired? >> we're working with currently an eligibility list open, i have to check with hr but we hope over the next month to be able to solicit resumes and set up interviews and be able to bring somebody on board. >> commissioner veronese: you will ensure they have experience in grant writing and grant -- >> yes. >> commissioner veronese: thank you chief. >> if i may commissioner, i'm going to pass out, i did ask mr. corso -- we could always improve and for a skill set for the grant writing we will, i'm going to pass down -- if commissioner hardeman would

assist -- we can always get better but 33.66 and there's one for commission secretary as well if there's an extra. just to frame the discussion. >> commissioner veronese: do you know how much the police department received last year? >> i don't but there are more grant writing opportunities for police than fire services. i don't know. i'm not sure if you do -- >> commissioner veronese: i don't. i wasn't setting you up. i would guess three or four

times than what we're getting if not more. >> possibly. and again, i know there are more grant opportunities that are out there for law enforcement. >> commissioner veronese: i would say especially since the way we have seen fires in california over the past year, there's probably more out there. that said, what i'm hearing from this department is there's going to be a grant writer in the next three or four months and i'm pleased to hear that. on the issue of just generally on the budget, as i mentioned before -- this is not specifically to you, you can stand there but this is not directed at you. i was not put on this commission to waste my time. none of us are on here to waste our time. i'm not here to go along -- and

get along if i see something that i don't think is right. this budget is an opportunity and this budget comes around once a year. it's an opportunity for this commission to stand up and say this is the direction we want to see this department go because where money flows, things get done. it's not our duty to every year rubber stamp what the department is handing us and say yes, department, you're doing a great job, we're going to do the same thing again next year. i don't believe when someone says playing within the rules or a box, i don't think that this is not about rules, it's about playing within the box. i don't think there is a box. i think our job as commissioners is to deliver a state of the art fire department to the people of

the city. and this is where we do it in this budget. the health department has a $2.5 billion budget and they anticipate they will be $400 million in deficit this year. we have a 300 -- i believe $336 million budget and as we saw, we're losing $100 million, almost a third, $100 million a year because our station 49 is doing an amazing job at providi providing 911 service to people who need it and we're not able to collect it because i imagine a lot of those people who need it also can't afford it. that's fine. that's what we're about, we're the city of st. francis and we do that and this department does an amazing job to do that. but i'm not here to rubber stamp my budget and that's not my job and frankly commissioners, it's not your job either. you should look at the budget and say this is where we need

help. as i look at the wish list that we have come up with, the department has come up with, this is not us, the department has come up with it and some of it is our input, we have things on there that's absolutely necessary for the city. a lot of the stations are rundown. the firefighters who live there love them dearly but a lot of them are run down. a lot of the trucks are breaking down and through the leadership of this commission, you guys did a great job of being the squeaky wheel before i got here to make sure we get more people and more rigs but the reason it happened is because you spoke out, not because you rubber-stamped a budget and that's your job and you guys did a great job of doing that. but there is more to be done for

this department. as we saw from department of emergency management, we play a key role in making sure that this city doesn't fall apart when there's an emergency. a key role, and frankly, we need a lot more money to do that to our absolute best. and that's just my opinion and some of these things in here are absolutely necessary. they're not things that we should be saying let's wait until next year. a dedicated marine unit. we have seen over the past year since i have been on here, i get a text two or three times a week of someone on a cliff or in the water, i imagine 10 years ago that wasn't true. i have seen the state department's marine unit, they have new boats and everything. it's down at the pier. we should be looking at being a part of that, being the als portion of their marine unit, combining marine units or doing

our own. but it's one thing to put it on this list every year and it's another to absolutely demand that it happens because we want to be a state of the art department. there are other things on here, a majority of what's on this list and the reason i speak about a grant writer because a majority of what is on the list could be dealt with with grant writers. we shouldn't have to go to the mayor's office begging for money every year. because we have a grant writer we can get things like mobile air replacements, i mean, why does our department not have a mobile air replacement. we should absolutely have that. and i believe if i'm correct, these are the mobile -- these vehicles that replenish air

tanks when they're in the field. i see our drone program is on here as well. we don't have any drones. we are the center of technology in the world and we don't have drones. i think a grant writer is absolutely necessary. i don't think that's something we should approve the budget without. i will not vote yes for this budget unless i'm assured as i have been that we'll have a grant writer. and there are other things we should stand our ground on, when the time comes you speak to the mayor about this. i don't think budget is finalized because the union is going to request a bunch of things as well. i hope that part of what the union is asking for is an increase in membership of the unit, there is no more important unit than the stress unit in the department. that's my opinion. i see he there is one member of

the stress unit currently there. and in the next two weeks i'm going to be distributing to the commission, the chief and to the unions, a minimum standards for the stress unit. it's a six page document that details exactly the type of stuff that we should be doing as a stress unit in san francisco. it will be a state of the art stress unit, minimum standards, probably doesn't exist anywhere in the united states but what it does do, it says we care about our members at the department, which i know everybody does, but we'll take care of you and make sure you're in peek performance to serve the people of the city, which ultimately is the only reason we're sitting up here as commissioners. we serve the people, the county and city of san francisco through the fire department.

that's our job. that being said, thank you mr. corso. i appreciate your time and god bless you what you do, it's a difficult job to say the least. >> president cleaveland: thank you commissioner for your in depth analysis and comments. commissioner covington. >> commissioner covington: thank you mr. president. i would also like to thank my fellow commissioner veronese for amplifying what i have been saying for years concerning the grant writer. i don't think that it is sufficient for this to be part of someone's job. i think we need a person who is dedicated to grant writing. we have been successful in the past in grant writing as people were doing this as part of their jobs. we need to really, really

understand and take to heart that we cannot depend on general fund money to support our needs. it hasn't happened in many years. i think it's shortsighted to not have dedicated grant writers and i have discussed this with the chief of the department. so to have this 1823 job description include grant administration and contracting and then maybe if there is sufficient time to do some grant writing is not optimum. i don't know what the job

description is that you have now, but that has to be at least 50% grant writing position for me. with someone not just asked if they have experience in grant writing but get the details in what the grant writing is. there's a lot of money to be had from people whose missions -- organizations whose missions are aligned with the fire department. not just federal funds. we've been doing a great job particularly when it comes to homeland security of getting funds, but we have other funding needs that are not going to be met by general fund monies. i also want to point out the 960 positions that some other departments have. so mr. corso, just so we can

have a robust discussion about this, could you tell us about what that 960 position is, what is that designation? >> so that designation is in general it's used by departments mainly i think more frequently used in civilian departments, it would allow for individuals who have retired from the city to come back in a part-time capacity not to exceed the number of hours in a year to bring for people who have expertise in certain areas, subject matter experts to do additional work in a temporary capacity for a respective department in lieu of hiring a full time position. so if someone was specialized in a certain area, after they retire they could come back to the city and work part-time. >> commissioner covington: as we all know, each job, each career

has its own way of doing things, its own way of communicating successes and challenges. to get someone previously in the department, knows the department well and knows the players and chiefs by first name, middle name and nickname, to come in and already be up to speed with what it is that the department does and how it does it will save a lot of time. they're well along on the learning curve. not having at least one 960 person who, i mean, i understand that in years gone past, there were a number of people in the department who were excellent grant writers in addition to the other jobs they had, the titles they had. it is incumbent upon us to tap

into that great reservoir of information and creativity out there. i insist that this be part of the plan, that this be part of the budget. also, i wanted to point out -- i'll come back to my favorite topic, the grant writer, but the homeless services supplied by the san francisco fire department, have we ever put together a figure of what that is? because we're supplying homeless services or services to the homeless population in the city, but we also now have a department of homelessness and we have a department of health.

for commissioner veronese to highlight the amount of money over a 10-year period amounts to a billion dollars, is very key. i think it's important for the mayor, the mayor's budget analyst and the citizens of san francisco to understand that these dollars are not reimbursed to us, they have not been reimbursed to us and will not be in the future reimbursed to us because the homeless population is not going down. it takes time for these units that are on the drawing boards to actually go online and be built so people can live in them. so in the past, i don't think we did it last year, but two years ago we wrote a letter to the

mayor's office and all the commissioners signed a letter, i think this should be at least the second paragraph in the letter pointing out how much money we're spending on homeless services. if we can't get more money from the general fund, maybe funds from the other two departments can be given to us. because we're a big part of that picture. we are a big part of that and not getting the recognition for that. i'm looking at the time, there are a number of other things i want to say and among them are thank you very much for the report. i'm not beating up on you. >> not at all. >> commissioner covington: just

very passionate about us getting what we need to do the job we do. >> i think we understand a lot of your points and concerns. >> president cleaveland: commissioner hardeman. >> commissioner hardeman: thank you for the updated memos this morning and the other day and 100 pages of information detailing everything. it was nice to see you followed up with some of the questions we had about grant writing and that there's no category in san francisco. being on a number of commissions i never knew one even though i heard everybody was supposed to have them. now i have the answer and i appreciate that.

i also appreciate you and the chief putting together this list, especially we were so successful with fema for a number of years in a row. that was spectacular getting those millions of dollars worth of grants and then the hiring that the couple of classes, wonderful. we have done pretty well without having a dedicated grant writer but i concur that we need someone pushing harder because it's getting more difficult because we'll have more fire requests soon due to what's happening in the state. all the areas that have been burnt to a crisp and the follow up problems they're having especially down south with the rain. appreciate your skills and what

you have done. appreciate president and vice president for assisting you and putting together a budget. i also appreciate this enhancement request that you gave out to us detailing out highlights of some of the wish list that we know we're not -- it's not realistic because we're not going to get $27 million worth of the items. but picking out the most important ones, you and the chief and president cleaveland can decide on is very important. and the other thing is on the drones, we discussed that in the budget, too, so there's five departments that have been authorized and we're one of the departments, our only thing,

without the homeland security person, we haven't really detailed out the amount we would dedicate and how it would operate but i too am interested in the drones simply because it could save a firefighter's life and possibly a citizen's life and could be in the long run one of the best things to happen. i look forward to that in the future in spending the budgeted at least the budgeted dollars we have on drones. thank you and you're doing a great job and chief you have to take the brunt of our complaints. the mayor doesn't look at the commission if it's jumping up and down. the supervisors look at you and say get your commissioners under control. they can't have everything they want. anyway, thank you chief. i know you stand up for us the

best you can. thanks. >> president cleaveland: i see our department doctor here, dr. would you like to come down and have a seat please? chief, you had a comment? >> chief hayes-white: a couple of things. commissioner covington i'm a huge proponent of the 960 program. there are layers of complexity i don't think have been brought to your attention on a few things. one thing is we have attempted in the past to endeavor a 960 program capitalizing on the great expertise of members who have retired. it is something subject to at least meet and confer with local 798 and in the past there have been roadblocks and i'm happy to discuss that with you further.

commissioner veronese, i did want to comment, i think what you had to say was very helpful. i don't think since you are the newest commissioner you have had the opportunity to sit down with the mayor's budget office. i know president cleaveland, vice president nakajo and i'm not sure about commissioner covington or hardeman have had the opportunity in the past and i know given quorum and meeting regulations, only two commissioners can be part of that, but i would encourage you to attend the meeting. we'll let you know in early march as director corso let you know the budget committee will be meeting with the mayor's budget director just to have that conversation, i think your passion and your, you know, your candor is very helpful but i also hope that you'll understand sort of the constraints we work under. but would appreciate that if you

were able to attend the meeting. i think it will be a win-win. >> commissioner veronese: i wouldn't expect that to moderate my passion for the issue. >> chief hayes-white: i think you would be hugely helpful. something for you to consider. we'll keep you in the loop on that. and then i think probably a larger discussion and i know we're running tight because we have to be out by noon, the reimbursement and how it works, i want you to know this is not a san francisco fire department issue only. for any urban jurisdiction with fire based ems, those are the returns on the care we provide. i would say in the 20th to 30th percentile. it's a national issue and it has to do with federal reimbursement and standard rate for an ambulance bill. it warrants a further discussion. i'm not the expert on it but i

think it's important to point out. and then just a couple more to point out because i know, again, we could always improve. as you know with the support of the commission, we were able to get fully funded through work orders of d.b.i., two full time people in prevention and community for fire prevention and i know president cleaveland you were very passionate about. and we're completing and waiting for the ink to dry on the work orders coming from mta for a full time person to oversee a lot of the work we have done. mta will fully fund a position for that and another through work order arrangement of economic development to have someone specifically look at and work with the moed on new developments.

those are all things we didn't have that we will have. that's my comment. >> president cleaveland: very helpful. vice president nakajo, you had an additional comment. >> vice president nakajo: thank you mr. president. i wanted to make a few comments because i did open this up and my intention was to move this item and that is my intention. i just wanted to make sure that in terms of what's been discussed, this discussion on ambulance reimbursement and the fee and the charges, i appreciate the evaluation or analysis of a 10-year figure or in terms of the dollar figure of unrecoupable dollars on that. i know the discussion takes us to "the homeless" but there's more than the homeless that takes advantage of our ambulance services.

being director founder of senior center in japantown for 45 years, many of the folks who take advantage of the services are privates or seniors. if they're seniors, depending on their ability of economic status, many of them have a hardship with this particular fee. the fees for the ambulance have risen over the years to a point now mr. corso, do you have off the top of your head what we charge normally. >> about 2,000. >> vice president nakajo: when you get hurt and you need help and want that paramedic or ambulance person to come to you, you want to be taken care of and part of that, there's a whole system of not only care but the evaluation of asking that person, do you want to go to the hospital -- most of us jump into the ambulance.

i don't know if you have insurance or not, but i don't know if you're calculating that i don't want to pay $2,000 to ride in the ambulance but i'm going to tell you, many of my seniors after i educated them and they received the bill and most of the seniors i work with, they want to pay their obligation. they'll do their damnest to pay that fee and the alternative to that is many of them say i don't need to go. and make your judgments in terms of whether that is. but commissioners, it's not just the homeless out there. there are seniors out there, but there's a category of citizens in san francisco that have economic difficulty. we as a fire department, what are we going to do, make a judgment out there while we're out there, can you pay, can you not pay, are you homeless, are you not. we're the fire department.

our obligation is to go out there and take care of it. when i came on to the commission 23 years ago mr. veronese i asked this question from the get-go. what about the reimbursement, but then it got to the nature of these are some of the hardships one has to assume within this service. not saying that isn't the argument to the mayor's office or anybody else in terms of expenditure of what we do. but even in terms of the homeless issue over the past 10, 5 years, it's grown tremendously. and even though the navigation center and department of homeless, in reference to the police department or health department, being a city department it's up to us to coordinate our resources and figure out best how to deal with that. so that's one issue. i don't have any problem with trying to achieve a state of the arts fire department. not at all commissioners. and i totally appreciate your

comments on every aspect from grantsmanship to drone to services, to marine units. i don't have a problem with that. but over the 24 years, it's taken a long time to get to the point we are now. and i agree with you, there's limbingations in terms of general funds or the process by which our responsibility is to submit the budget every year. and i'm not arguing the fact that a grantsmanship person could help us in those areas. i think we have done well, not tremendously well. i'm not going to use that word, we have done well with the given situation we have. this position 1823 is an opportunity. an opportunity for us within this constraints of no new hires to fill the position as a direct or a supervisor, i'm sensitive to what my crew or collaboration in terms of my work force can do under my supervision and direction.

i have confidence this position will be under the guidance and supervision of director corso but i make no elusions there's not a job right now in terms of what we're inspiring to be and there's no argument at what we want to get. i'm looking at an opportunity to fill the position and you have heard the commission and the priorities of where this person or persons can be, in terms of the work that we need, to me is the beginning and realistic request to try to make it. and finally within this, and i'm going to move that we adopt this budget presentation in termings of this budget because it's listed as such, respectfully commissioner, there's no rubber stamp here. i don't know anybody who has a rubber stamp up here. as long as i have been on this commission, rubber stamp means to me, i don't even open the packet.

engagement, participation, this process is part of the process. so with that in mind, and with respect to the colleagues and what we have to do as far as our responsibility, i'm not knocking or criticizing any kind of definition as to what we feel our responsibility is, there's no argument on that. and i'm willing to build toward the future and state of the arts but i need to be able to work within time. if that's laying back, perhaps, but i am concerned with the movement in the mayor's office and what we can achieve within this period of time between now and june, the aftermath of now and june to the new mayor. it's going to be a challenge for all of us in san francisco to go through this process. the last thing i want to see is that this department, this commission do not take responsibility for the duties and responsibilities that we're

addressed with. therefore commissioner, mr. president, commissioners, i would like to submit a motion to adopt this budget. thank you. >> president cleaveland: thank you mr. vice president. do i have a second? commissioner covington. >> commissioner covington: thank you mr. president and thank you for sharing your thoughts on this vice president nakajo. i hope you will accept a friendly amendment to your motion and that is the new position, the 1823, analyst position, mr. corso had said part of is grant administration and contracting, i would like that position to be grant writing. if you accept my friendly amendment, then i would second

the motion. >> vice president nakajo: i appreciate your friendly amendment but may i ask for comment from the director? mr. director. >> yes, i think i would say for that position given we haven't interviewed or had any exposure to the candidates to that position, i think the commitment from the department is to focus large majority of that position's work on grants in general, both writing and administration. i do think given the limited amount of resources we have from a civilian perspective on the administration side, there is currently the need for additional areas where that position can help. and kind of highlighted the contract portion of it. so to have it -- in a perfect world we would have someone to

allocate 100% to contracts and 100% to grant writing. due to the realities we have and given the staffing levels, i think that to fully commit to completely just having that person do grant writing, given things that pop up and the needs of the department as we move forward, it's -- we will have other needs that need to be addressed. i would say if the commission so chooses, i'm happy to amend the budget request to add a request formally in our budget for an additional position to be strictly grant writing outside of the list of enhancements we have. as i mentioned, we adhere to the instructions from the mayor's office but if it's the commission's desire we can include an additional position to be strictly grant writing if that's what the commission so chooses. >> commissioner covington: through the president to mr. corso, that would be in addition

to the 1823 position being at least half grant writing? >> correct. our intention is a combination of grant writing, administration and grant writing, regardless of what happens with the budget. we recognize those are areas of need in the department. that would not change. >> commissioner covington: i'm asking from confirmation that the position would be 50% grant writing? >> it would probably be over 50% grants, they would have a lot of the administration responsibilities but in total, we're looking to do training with other civilian employees as well to provide opportunities for grant writing and expand that. i would say there would be over half a position for grant writing, yes. >> commissioner covington: you just eluded to civilian employees being trained to do grant writing.

this is the first time i heard of that. >> there are a number of classes and opportunities available -- >> commissioner covington: you mean classifications. >> no training courses or classes, whoever we hire would anticipate sending them to some training regardless of their background, be it for refreshing or other opportunities, we would anticipate having that training available to other employees as well. >> chief hayes-white: we have a current civilian who has grant writing experience. she's not currently working on it but we're considering adding it to her profile if you will. >> commissioner covington: thank you. >> vice president nakajo: do i take you sustain the question in percentage of time to satisfy

the commissioner -- >> we'll make every effort to -- >> commissioner covington: and he also mentioned that he would ask for a new position that is totally a grant writing position. >> if that's the direction of the commission, i'm happy to include it in the amendment proposal and i can add it as an additional position >> chief hayes-white: if i can make sure we're clear, we have 1823 vacancy, we sound we would be willing to allot 50% of time to grant writing. if we're hearing, which we can do, we're not going to meet target reduction which i think we have discussed and clearly we'll recommend with president cleaveland's approval to co-sign a letter like we have done in the past, we would then also be

asking for something that we've been told no new fte's. we can do that -- i'm just saying the odds of getting that are pretty slim. but if we're hearing clearly, we can add it. >> vice president nakajo: thank you. commissioner covington, are you amending your amendment? >> commissioner covington: i'm expanding my amendment. >> vice president nakajo: could you articulate your friendly amendment commissioner? >> commissioner covington: thank you for the opportunity to do so. my friendly amendment is that the 1823 position be designated and add ve advertised as a gran writer half time. in addition to that, the letter that i mentioned previously

signed by all of the commissioners asking for additional monies for the department and highlighting our constraints under the current proposed budget and also asking for a designated grant writer 100% of the time. position. >> vice president nakajo: okay. director corso is that acceptable? >> is it the direction to include a designated position not just in the letter but in the budget submittal? >> commissioner covington: yes. >> vice president nakajo: as i understand in term office amendmented friendly amendment, at this point with that kind of acceptance by yourself mr. corso, commissioner covington, i'm open to that amendment. i will still move the motion if i may with the