solutions, short on affordable housing. the only thing we're not short on is divergent opinions, which this has come to light tonight. 365 is not amazon. 365's not whole foods. it's a completely different store, and i'd really like to bring up other neighborhood areas -- noe valley's a perfect example. 24th street cheese company has been thriving for many years, before and after whole foods' existence. there are three liquor and wine and spirits stores that are so closely attached to whole foods, i think they're about to tackle whole foods. noe valley wine and spirits, and others all exist in a healthy ecosystems.

guys, the -- the notion that real foods and cheese plus and other things are going to go by the wayside is not fair. there are 30,000 housing units in the pipeline in terrific right now in various stages of the development, okay? let's see this all get filled in and leased up before we scream panic in the streets. i will tell you, undoubtedly, retail is facing an apocalypse right now, undoubtedly, across the country. so 12 vacancies between 12th street and california street. this is part of a healthy ecosystem for polk street, and with other neighborhood grocery stores like whole foods on fillmore street, new seasons, a neighborhood grocery store that offers affordability to our city, please, i really ask for your full attention. thank you. >> president hillis: thank you, mr. holms.

next speaker, please. >> good evening. i'm dr. dale mortenson. i'm living on polk street. i was vice president of the polk district merchant association for 12 years, so i got to know all my neighbors up and down the street. small merchants are very special as far as a neighborhood, and we all have this fare of increased traffic congestion in the neighborhood which is really going to seriously impact not only businesses but traffic through that area. i'm totally opposed to whole foods amazon coming into our neighborhood, and you see all the small businesses here coming up and saying no to this for good reason. we like our neighborhood. we don't want a big box coming in. we are just fearful of the impact and traffic congestion and taking away businesses in

the neighborhood. and i like real foods. i shop there frequently, and it's a great store, and i totally oppose this, and i'm for mixed housing. thank you. >> president hillis: thank you. next speaker, please. >> i'm stephanie chang, and my husband is dale mortenson who just spoke to you, we've had his chiropractic office on polk street for 30 years. our office is a block away from the corner of jackson and polk street. polk street is a two-lane street, one lane north, one lane south. the impact of having 365 whole foods on our traffic situation is something of grave concern to us. traffic is getting increasingly

more difficult, parking is becoming increasingly scarce. i think steve cornell laid out a lot about the traffic situation on our street, and i think it impacts us, our patients, our neighbors, and i think it's a very serious concern for keeping small businesses on polk street. i hope that you will please vote no on this permit application. thank you. >> president hillis: thank you. next speaker. i'll call some more names. ester, janet, claudia, izzy, john, paul, and jim. welcome. >> good evening. i'm roy chan. i represent chinatown community development center, and we stand with our neighbors at mutt will polk neighborhood association in opposition to this proposal. allowing a stand-alone big box formula retail at the site

would simply disrupt the independent retail ecosphere that has defined this part of polk street and coincidentally chinatown. for over 40 years, chinatown cdc has a history of maintaining quality of life and neighborhood character, and we understand well the negative impact of formula retail moving in to established commercial corridors and we've even put into place zoning that restricts use size as well as formula retail. a 365 store moving into this site would further fuel the gentrifying trends we see, where lower income residents historically contribute tot unique cultural traditions and entities that define this city. specifically with the recent acquisition of whole foods by amazon, a 365 store could pose

an even greater threat to beyond just the impact in nearby retail. it would open the door for(d) tory pricing that would drive out local grocers. chinatown cdc asks that you stand with us in opposition and make neighborhoods like middle polk and chinatown unique for the city of san francisco. thank you. >> president hillis: thank you. next speaker, please. >> hello. i'm greg mc kinney. and i live at 551 jackson street. i'm in 100% support of the project because we do not have -- we do not have shopping within walking distance of our apartment. it's about 15 to 20 minutes away, and i'm an able bodied

person. most of the people in my building are older than 55 or 60 years old, and if they had shopping kitty-corner, they could easily walk to get their shopping instead of jumping in their cars and adding to the congestion of the city. i'm a strong supporter of our local businesses and i've spent thousands of dollars at our local businesses like brownies and cheese plus and the bottle shop, and i will continue to do so, but this would be a great augmentation to our neighborhood and help fill some of the empty storefronts that are a total disaster on polk street. our street is under utilized and so many empty storefronts that have been empty for years and years are just not helping anyone and just driving me crazy, so thank you. >> president hillis: thank you. next speaker, please. >> hello. thank you.

my name is kate chase, and i am here today to oppose the approval of the amazon taking over 1600 jackson street. as a long-time former resident of russian hill and also as wife of ray barrett, cheese plus, i believe the best use of this space is for housing. as someone who has worked and lived here for years, try as i might, envisioning having this big box retailer move in will not help the community but to irrepair rabl dama irrepairable damage to the small businesses that are there today, and based on this belief, i am all in favor of more housing and not more food choices. thank you. >> president hillis: thank you, miss chase. next speaker, please. >> hi. my name is ester fishman. i live at polk and sacramento. i worked on polk street for ten years at a book store. i heard a little bit of truth

about book stores earlier. that book store's no longer there. i used to shop at big apple. big apple's no longer there. i don't any that -- i think we're having a little bit of difficulty with the concept of what 365 is. 365 is not whole foods. it's not whole foods as it was developed originally on franklin. amazon owns whole foods. they have lots of plans. some are public, some are not, and we don't know what 365 is. we know it won't have a parking lot. we know that it won't have -- it may have some neighborhood people working there. they're also not known for their kindness to their employees. i would like to say that i think that san francisco right now is having a little bit of an imagination shortage along

with a housing shortage. i've been to a lot of places: los angeles, philadelphia, paris, florence, italy, places that have indoor markets, farmers -- places that have indoor farmers markets, places that have indoor retail that's divided up into stalls, and it works. let's -- why don't we try something different. thank you. >> president hillis: thank you. >> hi. thank you. my name is janet tarloff, and my husband and i own and operate canyon market in the glen park neighborhood of san francisco. i'm here today in solidarity with the other independent owners and operators of businesses on the polk street corridor opposing the whole foods 365 store in this location. since amazon purchased whole

foods, my husband and i have been watching very closely what will happen in our industry, which between the two of us, we have enjoyed our careers for over 70 years. and we're very concerned about the competition. now, i came up in the business of -- with a strong belief that competition is great for everyone, that strong competition helps us all become better. however when your competitor has nearly unlimited resources, there is no competition involved. so i want to just say that i do believe that housing in general is san francisco is much more needed than formula retail, and certainly in this vibrant neighborhood. our business employs over 90 people, and the primary concern for many of them is housing,

and i believe that we need to provide for the working people in san francisco. thank you very much. >> president hillis: thank you. next speaker, please. >> hello. my name is john. i live in the neighborhood, and i am getting the feeling many of these people don't live in the neighborhood. i urge you to vote yes and support the whole foods 360 -- or 365. i think this is an anchor that will bring additional people to the area. it'll be a positive influence to the other retailers. i know that's a big concern to the local retail, but it seems to me this would actually bring more people to the area, which would again, complement the local retail. i mean, as it stands, the area between -- i mean, i know there's a -- between broadway and california, i think someone

mentioned there's ten vacant spots. i know the coffee place that was on polk and -- it's either polk and play or polk and washington has been vacant for two years. the one down the street, that corner's been vacant. it just -- it belies me to see this -- what should be a pretty thriving area is just kind of a dead zone, and i think this would be a magnet for additional people coming to the area. and i also think a lot -- it would attract others from pac heights and cow hollow. a lot of those people would just come and walk over, so this would be a boom fore the area. i live there, and if i talked to 100 people in my neighborhood, i'm sure 95 would want this. so i urge you to support it and vote yes. thank you. >> president hillis: thank you. next speaker, please.

>> good evening, commissioners. my name is paul coletta. i'm ceo of urban remedy, and i'm here as a small business local business owner. i have four specialty food stores in san francisco, and i'm here to voice my very strong support for this project. i'm not only a small local business owner, i'm also a partner of whole foods. our partnership started with whole foods about three years ago when we realized we had very similar values and very similar customers. we're both very much trying to change the food system with clean local food, and their commitment to us has been absolutely phenomenal. they didn't put us out of business, as i heard earlier,

they actually have lifted us up. i want to give you a couple of quick examples to not only their commitment to us as a local food company, but also how they complement our business. first, they came to us three years ago and asked us to make products. we were a small company, we were struggling, and we've done that now for three years, and it's been a big help to have that -- that extra revenue, that extra boost to our business. we make several products for them and have been doing that for three years. secondly, i think we have another unique position in that we were asked to build a brick and mortar store inside the 365 store in concord, the most recent bay area 365 store. we built a 360 square foot store. we built it, we own and operate it, and it's done phenomenally well, and it's done well

because they pull in a very food focused customer, but offer something much more than we do. we're a much more curated specialty food offering, so you know the ecosystem they created for us was absolutely fundamental. >> clerk: thank you, sir. your time is up. >> thank you. please approve this project. >> president hillis: thank you. next speaker, please. >> hi. my name is izzy boxer, and i want to issue a plea to all of you to really listen to the people who live in the neighborhood. i lived -- i've lived for 35 years on washington and polk, and i'm a very strong supporter of whole foods 365 for three reasons. one is affordability, one is quality, and the third reason is accessibility. on affordability, i want to comment on something that someone said before about well, you can get free delivery from whole foods on franklin.

that's fine if you can afford whole foods on franklin, which i cannot. whole foods 365 will be much less expensive, more like trader joe's. the second issue for me is quality. i want to be able to buy whole foods quality fruits and vegetables, and the only place to do that right now is whole foods on franklin. my experience of real food is that it is much more expensive than whole foods on franklin, and the quality is not as good. and the last thing i wanted to comment on is accessibility. it's becoming increasingly difficult as i get older to walk a quarter mile or more up a hill to do my shopping. having whole foods 365 would be a real god send for me. for people like myself who live on fixed incomes and who want to age in place, i implore you to approve this project. thank you. >> president hillis: thank

you, miss boxer. next speaker, please. >> hi. thank you so much for listening to all of our divergent opinions. my name is claudia bloom. i'm a third generation san franciscan and strongly support -- >> clerk: miss bloom, if i could ask you to speak directly into the microphone. >> oh, like this? kind of scary. i'll start again. my name is claudia bloom. i'm a third generation san franciscan and strongly support the whole foods at polk and jackson, and i feel the whole foods culture does fit in the neighborhood. i live eight blocks away, and i like to shop on foot and shop in a real store, not on-line. there's no other reasonably priced grocery store that offers a large range of high quality, whole some midpriced food convenient to where i live, not to mention organic make up products. i love their lipsticks. i agree that san francisco needs affordable housing, but our neighborhood is in equal

need of a grocery store. i think whole foods would improve, not detract from drawing more foot traffic and a steady flow of customers to the neighborhood. other businesses would prosper and not feel threatened. they would all retain their customer base. additionally, having a long-term vacancy is a detriment to polk street. and i will say one other thing that's a little bit tangential. i'm 66, and a while ago, i was walking up vanness. i was hit over the head and i had to go to the hospital. i just feel safe being in my neighborhood because of the shop. thank you. >> president hillis: thank you, miss bloom. next speaker, please. >> hi. my name's amy burg, and i have lived and worked in the neighborhood for 30 years, and i raised my daughter in the neighborhood. never owned a car, never needed one. i've never gone hungry. it's not -- there's plenty of

inexpensive places to shop in the neighborhood. i am concerned what 365 amazon will do to our neighborhood, and i'm opposed, obviously, to it. that's all i have to say. thank you. >> president hillis: thank you, miss burg. next speaker, please. >> hello. i am a resident and also a young professional trying to survive in san francisco, and what i want more than anything is an affordable grocery store. i think that that's something that's really important that doesn't necessarily exist, and when i go grocery shopping, a lot of times i only buy a couple of things because that's all i can do that day. so i think having an affordable grocery store like 365 is really unique to san francisco, actually. i love cheese plus, i love the jug shop, but a lot of the time, those are for buying gifts or those are kind of a treat. so i keep hearing about you see

see -- housing, but that's not what is proposed at the site. we have a huge retail space sitting vacant, and there probably aren't that many retailers to fill that space. this isn't a housing debait, you have a vacant space and a tenant that wants to lease it, and people that don't live in the argument using an argument that isn't necessarily applicable. so what i understand the site that the jug shop is on is for sailor has sold for a housing project. so there's your housing, there's another stucco mixed use building with ground floor retail that may or may not sit vacant in a city that is proposing to fine landlords for having vacant retail, when again we have a retail space that's sitting vacant and a tenant that wants to lease it.

so i am for 365, and i think all the other people in the neighborhood are, as well. >> president hillis: all right. thank you. next speaker, please. i'll call a couple more names. patricia, greg, cassandra. those are all the cards i have, but others are welcome to speak. lineup on the screen side of the room, please. welcome. >> welcome. good -- good -- >> president hillis: evening. >> good evening, commissioners. i'm lisa fermer with liberty hill neighborhood association. for the past three months, my fellow neighborhood activists and i have been battling the most overreaching and outrageous land grab ever proposed by a state senator, unfortunately, our state senator, and all along, we've been dismissed as old folks who are against all types of new home construction. this can't be farther from the truth, and that's why i'm here

today to urge you to reject the plans for another whole foods/amazon because this site can better be used for housing people, not food courts. it's really not a grocery store. this is a perfect example of how local controls can save the day and add to our housing stock without displacing tenants and without displacing business. this is exactly what we were fighting for, and here's an opportunity for the commission to prove us right. if we need more housing, let's build it where we don't have to displace businesses or tenants, and let's do it within the existing map and scale of the surrounding buildings. and by the way, if 828 passes,

god fore bid, bid, we can add our arena quota. so if the shoe fits, let's put it on. thank you. >> president hillis: thank you. next speaker, please. >> good evening, commissioners. it was only less than ten days ago when senator wieners sb 827 was up for consideration by the state senate. i don't have to remind you, i'm sure all of you know that sb 828 is still making its way through the senate, and there is a good possibility that it could become the law, unfortunately. meanwhile we're here contemplating whether or not we should use this 20,000 square foot lot -- i repeat, 20,000 square foot lot for a food court or some people call it a grocery stores. we respectfully disagree. this is not about whole foods or formula retail, this is about under utilizing a 20,000

square foot lot that could be used to add to san francisco's housing stock. as i was driving up here, i was thinking to myself for the first time, yimby action and us neighborhood activists are going to be on the same page, and we're going to be on the same side. well, surprise, surprise. contrary to what miss clark stated about arduous permitted process, this project could be eligible for fast track processing and buy rite development. i'm sure all of you have heard of sb 35. and that camp is well aware of sb 35 as well, so i don't know why they're misrepresenting the whole thing of arduous task and permitting. frankly, i'm baffled by the building housing claim on this site does not pencil out. sure, housing costs have gone

up in san francisco, but i just looked it up. this site was purchased for a moore $3.5 million, folks. 3.5, 1992. that's what's on the website. and -- well, that's part of the assessor's record, and they have plenty of wiggle room to build mixed use and make more than a few bucks. also, i just want to he hadd a things about people not living in the neighborhood. we all live in san francisco, and we're all going to be impacted. so we should build housing and do it at the right income and the right scale. >> president hillis: thank you, next speaker, please. >> hi, commissioners. unlike a lot of those in opposition, i live right next door at 1650 jackson. i am strongly in favor of the 365. i think it's fascinating that people are talking about how

livly polk street is with el campoand basic. you go one block the other direction, there's five vacant storefronts. as one woman said earlier, they aren't vacant because of amazon or a whole foods, they've been vacant for years. what i don't want to talk about here is frask. -- traffic. i live on the block that would be most heavily impacted, and i am in support of the 365. i think terrific in san francisco is terrible, and i think unfortunately it's just a way of life as we see all of these ride share services come into the city. it's a completely separate issue. i don't want to talk about the small businesses that have very expensive items as one person mentioned, gift specialty items. i'm prosmall business, but this is america, and we have as americans, we are entitled to a choice, and a small grocery store provides us that choice. you know, i also don't want to talk about how there's a whole foodss in nearly every other neighborhood in the city. tell me how haight street is now suffering because of the

whole foods. you can't because it's not. haight street is thriving. what i do want to talk about issis the shoddy condition of the neighborhood. you want to bring up safety? let me paint a picture for you. i recently found out i was pregnant. my husband and i decided to go out on a stroll with our two dogs who happened to be terrible guard dogs. 8:00 a.m., we turn the corner and there's two homeless people lighting their crack pipe. this saturday morning it struck me differently. i saw two cop cars parked in the jug shop parking lot, and i notified them of the situation. you know what they did? they laughed at me. i have a lot more i could say, but that's it. >> president hillis: thank you. next speaker, please. >> hello. my name is patricia bitrick, and i wasn't planning on speaking today, but people have

been saying that -- that everybody in my neighborhood is for this. well, i live a half a block away at 1550 jackson street. i've owned that place since 1992, and i've seen the neighborhood change. and i'm opposed to this. i think that -- i'm not opposed to whole foods necessarily, but i don't think this is the right spot for it. i think between the -- polk street is two lanes. there's a lot of bicycles and car jostling for traffic. i think this is going to bring more traffic, and it'll be backed up getting to the garage down below, and i really think this is a very bad spot. and the bus situation is not good. it's -- i don't think that all the traffic has been addressed properly, so i respectfully ask you to say no.

thank you. >> president hillis: all right. thank you. next speaker, please. and as this gentleman comes up, if there's any other members of the public who would like to speak on this, now is your time. >> hello, commissioners. my name is bob cam, and i'm on the board of directors of 1650 jackson street, and we're right next door. we're a nine story condo, 70 units, we took a vote of our hoa. overwhelmingly in support. some people not, but the vast majority overwhelmingly in support, and i just echo what i've heard is shopping today, i have to go out of the neighborhood. all right, there is no general purpose grocery. we lost the big apple. that's where we used to go, so in my mind, i'm just trying to replace the big apple. thanks very much. >> president hillis: thank you very much. next speaker, please. >> hi. my name is tiffany, and i live on jackson and polk.

i actually live in the neighborhood and like many of those who oppose. for those who take businesses of whole foods putting them out of business, them being there won't affect my decision to buy or not buy. if there was a grocery store i'd actually visit those other stores because it complements it. we are actually one of the densest neighborhoods in san francisco, and if there's more housing, we do need to ad fore services like whole foods. you've heard a lot of opposition from people who own businesses and don't live in the neighborhood such as people from glen park. you should ask yourself what did the people who live in the neighborhood 24/7 want, not

those who work in the neighborhood want. thank you. >> president hillis: thank you. any additional public comment? seeing none, we will close public comment and open it up to commissioner comments as well as director. director em? >> commissioners, i just wanted to remind you there's been a lot of discussion about housing on this site, what's in front much you, just to remind you is only the question of formula retail or not, and that decision is separate from the issue of housing, and i just wanted to remind you that that's the decision in front of you today, and i know you know that, but just as a reminder. >> president hillis: all right. thanks. commissioners? commissioner richards. >> commissioner richards: okay. i'll go first. i didn't want to, but nobody pushed the button. nobody wanted to go first. i guess -- let's take a step back here.

why are we here? and i guess fore t the folks t are up here saying we demand a choice, we're america, why should we be here talking about a 365 because we want it or don't want it. in 2007, the voters of san francisco passed prop g. so think back to that election whether you were in the 48% who said you wanted this type of hearing who wanted formula re-tayl retail or whether you want in the 42% who didn't. if it were a popularity contest, we'd send out votes in the mail. you'd return, and we wouldn't be sitting here, quite frankly, so it's not a popularity contest. i've heard everybody, i've read all the letters. actually been up here highlighting some of them that i'm going to call out as ones that i thought were really

good. i guess we don't have -- we're not -- we don't have a housing project before us, thank you, director rahaim. i think, you know, the question for me is should this retail er er go into this location? what are the good reasons for it? i think there were a lot of reasons people got up and said that they liked it because of convenience and choice and things like that, and there were other people that got up and it reasons that were less obvious like miss harris and talked about the arab grocers association, and how they actually play on retailers and work with each other for buying power, etcetera. i also went back to -- i supported a whole foods in my neighborhood at market and delores probably, i don't know, six, seven years ago before i was on the commission. and we were wholeheartedly in

support of it because we like what the whole foods had to offer. the developer submitted what he called an -- i didn't like the term at the time -- a leakage study, how much buying power is in the neighborhood, how much people have to go outside the neighborhood to get what they want, and how much do they actually shop in the neighborhood at stores that exist, and what would whole foods do? we don't have one of those before us, and i wish we did. whole foods on 24th when we were looking at whether to support whole foods on delores and market, i walked over to 24th street and talked to the cheese shop and the plump jack and the st. claire liquors and all the businesses that everybody was talking about when they referred to whole foods on 24th street, and there was only one business that i know of that actually got put out of business. it was a butcher store.

everybody else said, though, that when whole foods did come in, their business dipped between 20 and 40 %, these smal retailers, and i asked the question why. and they said people would drive into the parking lot -- and i was there literally two days ago, looking at the amount of parking on 24th street. it's jammed. they actually have somebody directing traffic. i said why did your business go down, and they said it was a convenience factor that people would get in their car, and they would drive to whole foods. they'd buy their flowers, their cheese, their wine. everything was under one roof, and it was terribly convenient. they didn't want to actually get caught sneaking across the street to go to the cheese store. you can get a ticket parking in a private parking lot. i've gotten one at safeway, and it was $40. there was this convenience factor. for people that are actually mentioning this issue for people driving in and not really wanting to walk up the street, i think it's a real concern.

the good news is the cheese shop's still there in noe valley, the wine store's still there in noe valley. the florist is still there. they haven't been put out of business, so that's one good thing, right? there's a -- when whole foods went in to my neighborhood, there was a store years before that actually had the chutspah to open across from safeway. it was called golden produce, golden produce and exotic foods. then whole foods open across from safeway, and i don't know, safeway certainly won't tell me what happened to their store, but golden produce folks said their business is down 60% because they actually sell a lot of the same things. so where am i going with all of this? when i walked in the building today, i didn't -- i wasn't sure how i was going to feel about what i was going to vote for here, because clearly to me -- and i met with the

project sponsor, the owner of the business this morning, and he we -- we talked about a housing solution and things like that. at the very end of the conversation, i turned to mr. reuben, the owner and said, the game changer for me is is this just a grocery store, and the answer for me is no. it's a game changer. it's a game changer because of amazon owning whole foods and whole foods owning 365. there's so much innovation going on all over the place, that the implications of the innovations aren't thought through as innovations happening, and that scares me. i think the velocity's increasing, and it's like whatever happens in the end, so be it. and one of the letters sums it up. they said they believe whole foods has kind of a retail manifest destiny, and that really struck a chord with me that yeah, exactly.

it's -- there's limitless resources for amazon to try new things, like the ghost stores up in seattle where you walk in, there's no cashiers. it's an interesting concept. and then i think about those things, and i say hey, you pay great wages with your workers and all that fabulous, but what happens when you don't need them? that's the kind of thing i mean with innovation not understanding what the ramification's going to be. so we're dealing with a global juggernaut of a retail giant coming in after kind of putting -- you know, mr. holms said retail's facing an apocalypse, and the first thing i thought was why. i think amazon had a big role in that, and now they're coming full circle and buying bricks and mortar which scares me to

death, because i don't know where this is going. but having a grocery store or actually wrote down -- mr. carp took the words out of my mouth, is this a trojan horse in the neighborhood. i think this is a trojan horse, and i'm kind of having a hard time -- i would have a hard time supporting this. >> president hillis: can i ask a question of the whole foods representative? can you tell us what the amazon connection is. we all know that amazon owns whole foods, but what's the plan with amazon within this store and what kind of -- what can we expect? >> you can expect the project that's in front of you, which is a 365 store. amazon acquired whole foods about nine months ago, in september, and i can tell you that, you know, relatively little has changed. we still have our same management structure.

my boss, jack mackie is still in place. amazon also owned zappos, and they have maintained the same ceo. and zappos operates independently. i met jeff bezos recently, and he talked about the reason he bought whole foods, he said i look for missionary leaders, not mercenary leaders, and that was powerful to me. because he's interested in the mission of whole foods. i am, too. i've been with this company 25 years ago. i started with this company as a clerk in mil valley, california. now i'm the regional manager. >> president hillis: so go beyond the lockers or who is proposed for the entry to the

building, what is planned, amazon related. >> the way that amazon has helped us is ultimately through their technology in helping us reduce our expenses, so we've looked at some of our back of house management, and how we manage our inventory and things of that nature. whole foods is heavilily decentralized. we'll continue to be that way, but one of the results is we're not always as efficient as we'd like to have been, and frankly being a public company prior to the amazon acquisition, we didn't have the breathing space to be able to do the things we needed to do from an efficiency standpoint because it costs money to do that. >> president hillis: okay. another question, we've been hearing about this for years. what's taken so long? 'cause we have c.u.'s that are before us frequently that are here within months. >> we've been asking the very same question, to be frank, and perhaps i'll have adam smith or

jodi from reuben junius speak to that. >> president hillis: okay. and then, this second floor, you've got a large footprint. there are large footprints to these floors, and you're obviously filling the ground floor with the proposal that that's the grocery store. what are you doing on the second floor? >> so second floor we'll have some mechanical up there. the idea is we would have eating space up there. the reason this is -- it's over i think 40,000 square feet in grand total, and we're developing the down stairs which is roughly 20,000 square feet. >> president hillis: if you take the haight street store, how big is that? [ inaudible ] >> president hillis: and so you could fit it kind of on the first floor almost of what this building is? >> yeah. and -- and i think haight's also got some office space and mechanical's upstairs, as well. and also note, somebody mentioned noe, noe's 17,000 square feet.

with 24 spaces. this space is 20,000 square feet with 70 parking spaces, not an accurate comparison. the reason we took the 20 -- 40,000 square feet, we wanted to have all the parking. >> president hillis: if we conditioned approval on not having an amazon portion to this -- i mean, so if amazon came back and wanted -- and we've faced this in other places where we had -- where starbucks went into a safeway, and they would have to come back to us for a conditional use. if an amazon retail portion wanted to open up, would they need their own conditional use. >> i'm not the zoning administrator. i'm not sure. i think frankly and ironically, it would depend if they have

more than ten brick and mortar stores. i don't know if they do. >> president hillis: do you know that? >> i don't know. do you know how many stores amazon actually has, book stores, and so forth? [ inaudible ] >> okay. so if that's the case, they would. >> president hillis: all right. thank you very much for answering my questions. yeah. i mean, this is an interesting one. you can sit down, but thank you for that. and director rahaim, in getting back to the question about a c.u. for a large for mmat reta, you would normally need a c.u. to have a large retail format of this size. this has been vacant for a while. why don't they need a c.u. for that. >> nick, i think you can answer this probably better than i do, but because it was an existing retailer and it's simply converting. the only reason it's in front of you is because it's the formula retail.

if this was a grocery store that did not have ten stores, you would not have even seen this project. >> president hillis: okay. and they didn't vacate their -- you know, that c.u. or that allowable retail use has not been vacated? >> exactly. so one of the authors of the opposition wrote in about the vari point. bear with me. this is heavy planning jargon. the existing last legal use was a retail self-service use. it's principally permitted in the zoning district. it's not nonconform ng. it's absolutely conforming to the planning code, so the provisions in the planning code do not pertain to legal uses that were permitted within the zoning district. what we do have here is a last legal use that was nonconforming with regard to use size. the current zoning limitations are 4,000 square feet which is the absolute ceiling. you cannot have a use above and beyond that, so clearly, 43,000 square feet grossly exceeds

that by about ten fold. so basically we have a use that is being allowed to carrie any use forward in that same space. we're talking about a single use tenant. if you divide that into multiple tenants, obviously that would be something different. >> president hillis: okay. thank you. like commissioner richards, i didn't necessarily have an opinion as i came into this room. sometimes formula retail votes are some of the hardest we face. i generally, because of prop g, which i think is to give kind of residents as well as merchants kind of a set -- you know, say in how their commercial corridors develop and how they look and how they feel. in this one, oddly, i think the majority of residents, i think a fair, overwhelming majority favor whole foods on this site. certainly, there are residents who don't support it, but my sense in kind of hearing from -- from the folks here as well as reading things on-line and the e-mails we get are

people are generally supportive of whole foods. i would imagine if i walked through that neighborhood, there would be two times the support than their the detractors, and that's different than some of the other formula retailers we have faced and rejected and decided on. starbucks on market street, chipotle on market street. so that's been generally my take on formula retail. i mean this is a little different because we have the housing kind of element thrown in here, but i think -- i think if we had whole foods with housing above, you know, and eight stories of housing or seven stories of housing, we wouldn't be here necessarily. i think a lot of people would be there necessarily supportive of that and what you've done in other neighborhoods, which i would love to see here, too. unfortunately, we're not. that's not what's before us. but like if you came to us with a whole foods that -- that took

on the s and c ford site that used to be on delores and market, that would probably be the same question. i like what's happened at that site with housing. again, i think whole foods is a good use here. i think i go to the one on haight street. i go there once a week as well as trader joe's and other stores. i can't do my family's groshopg at buy rite, because i'd need another job to do it. i go to whole foods. i like whole foods. i think it serves the community. i like this version of it. i think it hasn't done kind of what people were nervous about, what was going to be done on haight street or 24th street. i don't like the fact that there's a parking lot with a one story -- i'm glad the mcdonald's across the street is being redeveloped to be you know more housing in a -- and

retail below. so that's where -- even though the vote before us is for, you know, the retailer whole foods, i'm supportive of that. i'm kind of torn because i think maybe mine -- if i vote no on that, you'll come back to us with a whole foods and housing. i don't know. it's a bit of a crap shoot. we've had those before where we've had a starbucks. starbucks still sits vacant on the corner of 14th and market, but even the pet express there on 14th and lombard, gated. there's nothing there. so mr. isaacson, i want to ask you a question because you say housing is infeasible here. maybe it is, but if it is, it's

infeasible anywhere. i think this would be a great site for it, but i understand construction costs are high. what's that? [ inaudible ] >> president hillis: so i want to ask you, 'cause you've done good housing projects. i told you i often point to the one on franklin and hayes, and so what have we expedited a project with whole foods and you s housing? what if you went and applied for a state density bonus for housing. my point is we're a planning commission. we don't necessarily decide what goes in storefronts commission, and i don't want to look on-site 20 years from now like i do the 24th street in -- the 24th street whole foods and say like this is just a bad planning decision, that we have a whole foods set back from 24th street with a parking lot on it, and where we have a great decision where we made at

the s and c foert site where there's a whole foods site with housing above. >> the only thing i can say in 30 years of doing development in san francisco, i've always been told, try to keep the existing building. i've never been told tear down a 65,000 square foot extremely functional building in good shape and put it to waste. so there's a functional building that we purchased with the intent of releasing it because it's somewhat absurd thinking you would tear down a structure that's in such good shape. >> president hillis: you would agree that tearing down s and c ford was a good decision. >> i don't know the shape of the building and so forth, but i will agree that it's a nice

looking project. >> president hillis: i will agree, this building is better. it works on the whole corridor. >> we're not on market street. we're on polk where there would be as much opposition if we tried to build a 65 foot building, more than there would be i think with the whole foods. to address your specific question, the only thing i can tell you is that for instance, the gentleman todd david from hack, he had written a letter in opposition of our project and in support of housing. and jim reuben said, you know, i know him, and you told me it doesn't work for housing. maybe we should sit down with him. i sat down with him and another director from them, and they listened to me, and they said could you provide me with a proforma so we can take a look at this before we make any sort of decision on this and withdraw or opposition. i said no problem. i gave them a detailed proforma and showed them how housing costs from increased dramatically in san francisco, with the bmr's. we met again and they totally -- i don't want to speak for him, but he understood and said that it

was -- that he had been able to verify it, and that it answered his question as to why housing is basically at a standstill. as a developer, that's primarily in mixed use housing, i can tell you, mr. hillis that there's an abundance of sites for sale right now because no one's building. they just don't make any financial sense. and that's just unfortunately with the state of construction and below market housing. unfortunately, i believe that the board instituted in a rearview mirror affordable housing requirements on developers which is causing a stoppage of building right now. >> president hillis: right. right. how long is your lease with whole foods if this gets approved? >> it has a series of options but it has 15 years. >> president hillis: 15 years,

but with options how far can it go out? >> i don't recall but i think it's another two or three -- >> president hillis: five year term? >> 30 years total. >> president hillis: and that's my other concern. why don't we build housing on the safeway site on market and church? you can't, because safeway is never going to leave that site. i don't think we're going to get housing tomorrow if we deny this, but our choice is i think a good use now in getting a vacant site and things the neighborhood wants versus a good kind oft's a little bit oa crap shoot because next week you could come in with a large format gym. so just another line of question, i'm sorry, and then i'll stop. could you put housing -- could you build a floor of housing or put housing on the second floor of this building and build an additional floor of housing to get some mixed use on this project? >> on the existing structure, are you saying.

>> president hillis: well, there's a nice loft style second floor that they're not utilizing very well. could you build housing on that site or even go up another floor with the existing structure and foundation and build kind of penthouse style above? >> i think it would be extremely difficult to add an additional story to the structure because it's an older building and the -- this compa

formula retail. i have a memory of a couple years back in july during the pride parade, i walked into the whole foods on market and delores. i was absolutely blown away by the colorfulness, the rainbows. they had the la croix canned waters, all in an arrangement saying pride. the magazine rack was there, the flowers were right in front. i thoroughly enjoyed just walking into that store. the same store now is filled with metal shelves and check out counters. there's no greeting when you walk in. there's no magazines, there's no flowers. i look at the employees, and i literally don't think they're as happy as they were a couple years ago before the footprint and the model had changed at this store. and to be honest with you, i don't go in there anymore. i'm just -- i'm not impressed

with the experience. i have a better time going into the safeway and i don't use the automatic checkers, i go talk to somebody because that's a job for them. that's how they're going to eat, that's how they're able to how's themselve house themselves. i even go to the golden produce first. i know the names of the owners. i like to shop, and that's what i like to do. again i'd like to see a better ut will utilization of this project, but i don't like where whole foods is trending. and i don't know how soon they're going to go further and to what extent they're going to go. >> president hillis: commissioner fong? >> commissioner fong: well, thanks everyone for coming out. this is a complex one and i agree with some of the speakers that over time, we've created a

very difficult position, whether it's formula re-taylor bmr minimums and not helped by the cost of construction and labor right now. just a little bit of -- as one speaker mentioned, this used to be ron greenspan's volkswagen service department there. generally, i am in favor of small business and support small business. i think san francisco has long been successful and the unique thing we like about san francisco are all the different small unique businesses. to me, the real question is are we doing enough on this site? and for folks in this room that aren't here for other hearings, i hope you can understand the pressures that san francisco has and that we receive here and the department receives for trying to build more housing on all different levels. and so are we doing enough with this site? is the developer doing enough with th