two graphs. collier's closely monitors retail activity in union square. can you see that? so as you can see, this year, we've only done three transactions. two of them are renewals, only one new tenant's come to the market. the last few years, 2014, 13, we've done, 11, 5, and we're diminishing. and our vacancy rate is 11%. >> thank you, ma'am. time. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> good evening. i'm a native san franciscan, third generation and business owner. i'm old enough to remember my mom taking me to i.magnin in union square. every visitor goes through or two union square. my question is, who does bid

really represent? >> if you want to identify yourself? >> sure. my name is ruth rupino. this case is the epitome of the mindset of certainly entitled, wealthy people, namely that a small business carries less value and contributes less to the character of the neighborhood than a luxury shop. you just heard that, and not one argument has been made this evening that was not already made zp rebutted at the -- and rebutted at the first hearing. under the guise of a nonprofit its true objective is to maximize profit for commercial landlords. this is demonstrated by their outrageous opposition for this permit. the substance of this position is of a special interest group

with a hidden agenda. they do not speak for the people of san francisco. their concerns are not what's in the best interest of the city. i do appreciate bid's work in neighborhood buttefication, and i'm happy when landlord and public interests overlap, but when they do not, it is incumbent on the city to do what's right. commissioners, the decision to grant this permit was the correct one, i strongly urge you, do not overturn this permit. >> thank you. >> thank you. next speaker, please. >> my name is leah shapiro, and i've come to love hometown creamery since it's come to san francisco. i am a jewish individual, and

it's hard for me to find places to eat during passover. i don't know if you're familiar with it, but we have a very restricted diet during that time, so i walked into hometown creamery during passover, thinking that i wasn't going to be able to find anything to eat, assuming that. i saw something on the menu that i was really excited to see. it was a traditional passover food, and i assumed that was also going to be something that i could not eat. i came to the counter, and hadi was standing there. he's always grinning there really big and warm and welcoming. i asked him if it was kosher passoverfood, he said of course it was. he told me he made it himself, which i thought was really wonderful and was very heart warming for me. so i had it? it was delicious? i've been so happy with the

service every single time i've been there. and essentially, what i want to get across is i think that this place has so much heart and it's so kind and welcoming that i think it would only help union square and downtown and only help business there. thank you. >> thank you. next speaker, please. >> good evening, board members. my name is peter dahab. i am a community college teacher, and i've been living in san francisco for almost 30 years. i think the business, what two brothers have put together is great on many levels. i hope the city does what's right and allows the permits to go through, and i thank you. >> thank you.

next speaker, please. >> my name is jennifer busik, and i'm a long-term resident of san francisco. i have the privilege of having friends and family that live all over the state and all over the world. i spend more time in union square than i probably like, but when i'm there, i think it would be such a benefit to the neighborhood to have something that is firmly rooted here that is a small business. pinkberry is a chain. they're based in southern california. ben and jerry's is what, vermont, somewhere back east? i would love to be able to be proud of something there that is rooted in the community, and i think it's a great spot directly in the heart of union square to have this small business and to give -- well, for this board to champion a small business instead of all the national retailers that are there. that's all i have to say.

thank you. >> thank you. next speaker, please. >> good evening. my name is noah belkin. i am a lifelong resident, and i've been a loyal customer to san francisco hometown chromery since they opened. my mom and i used to frequent there almost every weekend, and when she developed terminal cancer two years ago, she lost her taste from most foods, but one of her joys was trying the interesting flavors at hometown creamery. i later learned the owner comes up with these really cool flavors from his travels all around the world. i got to learn more about the owners and their background, they're two brothers, they worked their way to school. they're the epitome of the american dream, start your own business.

even though their fan base was grown, they're still extremely approachable. the work they do in the community is seen with the local charities, the schools, the food they give at the food bank, and they're just really one of the socially and environmentally conscious businesses that i've seen, and they sell one of the happiest, most successful things, ice cream, which everyone loves. that's why i'm supporting them, and i feel a great pride in sharing their story and product with people. when i heard that they spend months restoring this classic v.w. ice cream truck and are planning on opening in union square, i was thrilled at were my colleagues who work downtown, and after aity with aing eagerly -- after awaiting eagerly for them to pop up, i learned they were having to appeal after they were granted their permits.

i was shocked, couldn't imagine who would do such a thing and why, and when i looked into why it was being blocked, it's flat out hypocrisy and flat out abuse of power. it's another way for big business to stiefl competition and try to squash the little guy. >> sir, your time is up. >> sir, your time is up. >> sir, your time is up. okay. next speaker, please. >> my name is adam gold. i live in san francisco. i -- for whatever reason, i have family in about ten or 12 states, i have family abroad. when i want to show them the san francisco that i know and love as a local, i take them to the sunset, i take them to the mission, i take them to the

haight, the richmond. i almost never take them to union square or downtown. even though that's a place where we have a lot of tourists touring. it's a place where there's multinational corporations. it is a really interesting opportunity that we have to allow a local business to move into downtown, bring some of the loving culture that you've heard people talk about, more people will talk about, and share that with tourists that are coming to our city to city what san francisco is all about. and i don't think that san francisco's all about multinational corporations. i think we have a great culture here, and i don't think it's been accurately portrayed by what's in union square today. it's great that this permit was approved the first time, so i

hope you guys will uphold it. as far as macy's, it's interesting that it's ben and jerry's therethere; but ben an jerry's is a multinational corporation. >> thank you. next speaker, please. >> san francisco hometown creamery is a place that i go often, like everyone else is saying, i think it represents the best of san francisco. not only is the ice cream incredible, the ingredients the owners uses are sourced locally. it's the only ice cream store that makes its base from scratch. even the decor speaks to our city as the walls are lined

with stunning artwork representing all the different districts of the city. what's most personal to me, it is a minority owned business and embodies the entrepreneurial success of san francisco. i was thrilled to hear they're opening up a food truck or van. it's such an accessible location, where there aren't any ice cream stores, like really, artistan ice cream stores. i'm disappointed by the opposition. it's precisely in union square, lined with big corporate retail stores where we need the vibrancy of small businesses represented, so i ask that you maintain the support for hometown creamery and deny the appeal today. thank you so much. >> thank you.

next speaker. >> hello. my name's lily salary saldivar. i -- lily saldivar. as a member of the community for eight years, i believe it's an establishment worthy of giving life to san francisco. it's a staple of our district and should be a staple of a center for our tourists to enjoy. i recently moved to the east bay, and i still travel to hometown creamery because it's pretty much the only place he go to get -- i go to get sorbet. i believe that many tourists who visit the downtown area deserve a great experience in excellent ice cream. the statements made by the appellants is selfish and a lack of empathy for hard

working sf residents who have earned a place in our downtown center. they say it's not the right location. i don't -- where would be a right location? it's -- it's a volkswagen. it's not as big as a food truck. honestly, it's a dessert truck more than a food truck. they mention these big corporations, restaurants and caves that have no sf -- cafes that have no s.f. heart, and they shouldn't be allowed because they're not in the right location. they're not asking to be there all the time. it's only friday through sunday, so i think you should take away the -- the thing that you guys gave them, so yeah, there you go, okay. thank you. >> thank you. >> good job. >> hello. my name's kimberly, and i am a bay area native and currently

live in the outer richmond district. i'm here to speak in support of hometown creamery. we are customers there, and eat there often. they have a very fun and very san francisco feel to it. i think having a hometown creamery ice cream truck in union square is a great idea. it supports our local business people and adds a local flavor to union square. i love bringing my two sons and out of town visitors to union square. a family friendly colorfully decorated ice cream truck owned by local business people is just what union square needs more of. thank you. >> thank you. next speaker, please. >> hi. my name is natalie barclay. i'm a san francisco native. when i think of san francisco, i think of local businesses. we don't think of big

corporations. that's not the heart of our city, and i think that we're starting to lose sight of that, and we need to really get back to those local businesses and make sure that they still have a place. san francisco's also an incredible food city. we value high quality product, and we want that experience as well as the community, and that's exactly what hometown creamery gives you. it's not just ice cream at a good quality, but it's also a community that exists in the sunset. but if we could create that community downtown, you not only would have tourists getting a feel of what san francisco is, but you would bring locals. locals don't fiebd that community downtown. downtown is not for locals anymore, and i feel like they create the sense of community that everyone can feel that they belong to. and that's something that i think is very san franciscan. we all just want to be

together. so i think that this would be a very, very positive thing for san francisco, and for the downtown area, i don't see how it can detract at all. thank you. >> thank you. next speaker. >> hi. my name is june jackson, and i've been a resident of the inner sunset for 16 years. i want to thank you in advance for listening to this. san francisco is a city famous for being ahead of its curve. local and tourist -- locals and tourists alike are drawn to a city center that is both vibrant and yes, a little bit quirky. in an age when so many city centers have become interchangeable landscapes of high and middle end chain stores, hotels, and restaurants, san francisco has always distinguished itself by offering something special and

surprising. hometown creamery's ice cream van is exactly what union square needs right now. nobody, tourists or local is going to sclam to friends or post on social -- sclam exclaim or post on social media about visiting macy's, but they will about ice cream. i urge you to uphold the director's decision to allow the creamery van to operate in union square. thank you. >> thank you. >> hello. my name is steven brett. i have a real estate management company in san francisco.

i've had it for 30 years. my company manages the building on the corner of thank you.

>> my name is ismara. i'm a midwife at san francisco general hospital. i'm also a clinical assistant professor at the university of california san francisco. >> i'm sorry. can you speak more into the mic. >> sorry. and i'm a proud latina and african american mother.

for the last seven years my time and energy has been invested in san francisco while pursuing my bachelor's degree at u.s.f. and my nursing degree at ucsf, i went to school during the day and works during the evening. hometown creamery became a study location for me. during my 11 year old's daughter's recent science trip to the creamery, they shared their background with the kids. we learned they were people of color, were raised by a single parent and pursued a higher education despite all odds. they, too, have been working hard to bring their dreams to reality. i sat there with great pride. i was grateful to learn about a business we could identify

with. having gentrification can make many minorities such as myself feel out of place and disconnected. the creamery has been a cultural hub with its unique san francisco vibe. as a woman of color with limited resores for many -- resources for many years i have kwk quite -- many challenges people of color face while over coming institutionalized barriers related to race. hearing the opposition's case and knowing what i know that the structural barriers that this business has over come, i cannot help but feel there is a strong implicit bias existing here. >> i'm sorry, ma'am, your time is up.

you can finish that last -- >> i am passionately in support of breaking down these barriers. let's have a place in union square where people like me can feel proud to support. >> thank you. thank you. >> hi. my name's danielle smith. i am a resident of the inner sunset, and i've been a public schoolteacher for the past 30 years. hometown creamery is an incredibly conscious place in terms of the community. as part of the public schools career and community -- excuse me college and career readiness program, the owners of hometown creamery have offered to either come to the classroom and talk about how to create a small business and even have the kids in. and i know that they also work with public schools in having tours of the creamery, and with the -- excuse me.

it's been a long day. >> and with the korean college readiness program. it would be a shame if -- i work mainly with disen franchised youth from all over, but it would be a shame if they were not able to get this permit and expand their business just because of big business. they're a wonderful -- one more thing i wanted to add it in the regards to the aesthetics, there are places in the inner sunset that's beautiful, and i know that the van would be, as well, so thank you. >> thank you. next speaker, please. >> i am not only a resident, i'm homeowner. i also work downtown. and i am not going to revisit everything that everybody said about how great it is. i am solely just going to sort of say i'm not really sure that i understand the objections to the permit that was issued?

if the planning department has said that the space is okay, then, my question would be to turn to these people and say if the community has come, and waited all evening to hear this, perhaps the better plan of action would be to work with the community to bring people down because it sounds to me like maybe that's the problem? 'cause we'd like to work with you, we'd like to go to union square. i'm sorry to turn my back to. >> please speak into the microphone, ma'am. we need your comments into the report. >> maybe there in is the difficulty, and that's all i have to say, what everyone has said. >> thank you. any other public comment? seeing on, we'll move onto rebuttal. we'll hear from the representatives from the yunio square business improvement

district. >> so i'm responding to all the public comment, is that what i'm responding to? >> you have three minutes to respond to anything. >> anything? yeah. i mean, you know, certainly people love the ice cream. i tried the ice cream last week. it's have very good. the -- it's very good. in fact if that's the truck they're going to use, it's charming. people like it. we're not against food trucks. we tried to work with the applicant. we tried to work with other locations within union square that aren't so busy. we tried to suggest that they work with off the grid to join our lunch in the main lane that's starting up this july. winter walk, and just -- back to the work, we're picking up needles and stuff, and this is what our day looks like. we're challenged with the

central subway. you know, we're just trying to make things easier. i think it would be a good addition to union square, not in this particular location. it's going to be a headache to try to manage it. >> thank you. mr. roth? you have three minutes. >> okay. thank you. well, i'd like to just get back to basics and remember why we're here. this ordinance came about in 2013. the 2010 ordinance was under attack because the state of california had preempted all the pedestrian safety issues and people were threatening to sue the city about the mobile food ordinance because of congestion on sidewalks. so when you read the legislative intent, it outlines

what the ordinance is trying to accomplish. it's trying to accomplish complying with the state of california so the ordinance can't be challenged. so if you look at this picture, this is where you're putting the food truck. i know it probably has some glare, but this area right here, this is exactly where the food truck would be. and miss wilson -- commissioner wilson, we always want to attract people to union square. but -- but to attract people to congest the sidewalk when my fear is this ordinance is going to come at it -- if you grant a food truck in this heavily congested of an area, how will anyone decline another application? we're vulnerable to the state of california where somebody is suing for that to say let's get rid of this whole thing. i've been doing this 44 years. i called and talked to adar, and said let me help you. i'll get you involved in all

the union square events. we'll work together. this is not the right place to be, and there's one last thing to remember. these permits are 100% transferrable. i own some, i know. when i grant this, and if you look at what the d.p.w. said in response, here it is right here. it says, the public works -- sorry. public works does not control the menu, and it does not control the size of the truck. and like a marriage, you cannot assume domestic tranquillity. they can go bankrupt, or they can sell it to something else. if that concept truck they put together is not approved, you can have a wall in front of these businesses and a lot more fo food -- foot traffic, and that makes everybody vulnerable. i've been at that location for 44 years. this is not a bunch of bad

people we're black hats, it's a community of hard working people who put their time and money and their lives into this place. and i really, really hope that you will overturn this and give another chance to work with them so we can all get together and find a place that works for everyone. thank you. >> mr. roth. >> yes. >> does your facility there conform to the current code? >> okay. two things. number one, when i got my permit in 1974, the ordinance said it shall be unlawful to peddle in san francisco without a license to do so. that was the ordinance. we didn't have to deal with this. so i've been grandfathered for 40 years. >> i didn't say that. >> do i comply? yes, i do and the reason i conform is because i'm by the entrance to macy's because i have a 25 foot wide sidewalk. during the holidays, i work

with macy's. i have different sized carts, i come out with different size cart, tents, sometimes i don't come out at all. >> when was that photo? >> this was the weekend of christmas, like, a saturday night at christmas. you bet. yes? >> i have a question, as well. so since you've been there 44 years, there used to be forests that were on the corners, and i know that they -- they didn't voluntarily leave. do you remember why -- i ask can ask the department that after. >> there were two florists. >> there was one in front of i.magnin, and one in front of neiman marcus. >> the one in front of neiman marcus, they died and they went

out of business. but the other one, i don't know if they just picked them up and put them on geary. >> the last thing was for reference, do you remember the old vietnam vet that used to sell nickels for a nickel and he used to be on that cart? >> oh, yeah. >> thank you. you don't look old enough to remember that. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> thanks for your time. we'll now hear from the permit holder. you have six minutes. >> so the appellants brought up congestion. there is a large amount of foot traffic in union square. it's important to point out when the ordinance was amended in 2014, it did not prohibit m.f.f.'s from operating in areas with large amounts of foot traffic. it provides guidance on where they believe m.f.f.'s should

expand. the typical -- but it allows reviews on a case by case b. the typical traffic flows and existing food frask demonstrates -- traffic demonstrates that our presence would not have a negative impact on congestion. on the east side of the block, you have a flower stand whose operation takes up an 8 foot by 20 foot space and is open every day 9:00 a.m. to 7:00 a.m. outside of macy's, you have appellant's hot dog cart who has 10 foot of sidewalk clearance and is open daily.

our location is on the west side of the block, and our operation exists within the confines of a legal parking space, occupying no portion of the sidewalk where the sidewalk in front is 15 feet, not 10 feet. we are a grab and go operation where our offerings are made in advance and ready to be served upon ordering. all the pictures of the appellant's exhibits feature full fledged food trucks that require people to order, wait five to 15 minutes for their order to be prepared, and then receive their order. even in the event that a substantial number of people wanted ice cream, the pace of the people being served would move expeditiously. they've brought up blocking retail storefronts. it is unreasonable to claim our presence would cause harm to retail storefronts. our parking space is designated for six wheel commercial

vehicles five days a week. due to a scale of the local comparison to illustrate the difference of vehicle size. here on the bottom, you've got our vehicle. above that, it's drawn to scale. above that, you've got a standard food truck, and then, beyond that, you have a six-wheel commercial vehicle. the 70 foot distance restriction that the appellant raised, that restriction raised by the appellants only applies to brick and mortar restaurants. it does not apply to other m.f.f.'s. they raised possibly changing the use of the permit. we were very specific in our permit application what the intended use of this permit was. the m.f.f. ordinance gives the d.p.w. director the right to revoke or suspend a permit in cases of fraud,

misrepresentation or false claim in a permit application, and that's located in section 4(c) 2(a) 1. furthermore, the director has the authority to revoke a permit where the permit's operation negatively impacted public health, safety, convenience, or welfare. in section 4(c) 2(a) 4. they also touched on a permit being transferrable. the transfer of a permit requires the explicit consent of the director of public works. in conclusion it is clear that the appellants are frustrated with the m.f.f. legislation. however we should be be penalized for their frustration or the acts committed by others. we complied with what was put before us by the city, and we reasonably relied on following the legislation that has been on the books now for five years. there's been no abuse, error or

fraud in the issuance of this permit. therefore, we respectfully ask that you do not overturn it. it would be an honor and a privilege to participate in the union square business community. we ask that we be evaluated on who we are and the specific proposal we have put forward, not on wild speculation, inaccurate information, and nonsensical hypotheticals. thank you. and i believe my brother would like to say a few words, so i'll let him speak. >> you know, my brother and i put everything we have into building a business that's not only dedicated to the city and community, but one that's dedicated to doing things the right way. dotting all i's, crossing all 2 t, so it's very important to demonstrate out comes when things are done properly and rules are followed. as you've heard from the public, which i'd like to thank

for their dedication, and passion. there are so many reasons why this is important. this is an opportunity for the city to demonstrate that it actually cares about its local citizens and constituents, that it values supporting a disappearing class of business, and that it's vital to not only the identity of the city br the community as well. we ask that the committee respect the decision already made and not bend at the interest of a select few. thank you very much for your time. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> yeah, we all have questions, i think. >> we'll start with you. >> can i see that photo you put up the first time of the bus. >> which -- >> the pink -- hot pink. >> which -- the original bus? >> no, the one that you're planning on. >> using this one? that bus?

>> right. so i guess i'm a little confused. so how many people do you expect to serve? 'cause i look at this -- this size, and it doesn't look like it can hold very much. >> so -- right, so what we did was we limited our offerings. we'll only be offering six flavors, and there'll be a freezer that stretches across the side of it, within the width of the van, so it should be probably able to handle a day's sales. >> a full day's sales. >> right. >> okay. and then, there was a comment that you guys weren't interested in any negotiations or discussions to think about other locations. can you tell me a little bit about that. >> well, that's not entirely accurate. >> okay. >> we are -- you know, we set our sights on this. we had our mind on this, and we want to see it through. so this is our main focus, so that's all i can say in regards to that. there was no particular

discussion about particular locations in other relocations. there was potential offerings, but what we said is, you know, our mind has been set on this, our heart has been set on this. this is more than just about selling ice cream, and we think that this particular landmark location has special value. >> and why is that? tell me why that particular location. why is that important to you? >> well, it is a landmark. people walk by, and that is the spot, and we want to be a part of that. we want to be able to show people that san francisco is more than just chain stores. there's nothing wrong with chain stores, but there's more to san francisco than what's currently being represented there and what's being served there, so we wanted to make a difference within that particular space, within that particular area. >> okay. my question. so the concern here is that the permit is transferrable, and yes, we understand that it's up

to the director. just out of curiosity, would you be willing to have a special deed of restriction saying that there is no other substitution other than the size of that 1978 vanagon there. >> yeah. >> and so there would be no exceptions to that. you couldn't go left, right, up down, that would be the size. >> yeah. we have no plan on deviating from what we're putting forward. i would think that -- >> i think you're saying permit restriction. >> okay. permit restriction because the concern, one of is the blockage, the footprint and the real estate that that takes is relatively small in comparison to 35 feet and 16 feet up in the air, right? and so if -- but if that is -- you're willing to do that, that's a -- you know, a plus on my side. >> commissioners, that does affect transfer? >> you can condition anything.

>> thank you. >> and yeah, i would like to reiterate and be clear that we have no intention of deviating from this and are completely fine in putting things in writing, an extra provision. >> okay. we will now hear from the department. thank you. >> thank you. >> you have six minutes, mr. cohen. >> i'm not sure i have much to add. a lot of the arguments were discussed at length, so if you have any questions. >> i guess i might have one. how often have you had requested to transfer a permit? >> they come -- they come periodically. we've had -- i couldn't say how often, how frequently. >> but you do see them. >> they have -- they do come. >> and are you aware when those have happened as to whether the equipment, if you want to call

it that, has changed dramatically? >> we don't necessarily -- i mean, we started to review or look at the equipment. we'd definitely look at the footprint in terms of push carts, in terms of food trucks, as long as they meet the criteria from the health and fire department -- departments, we don't comment on the look of the truck. >> answer that question, though. do you allow the neighbors or the neighborhood to weigh in on your decision to allow a transfer or do they have no say in the matter? >> the transfers do not require notification, as far as i'm aware. >> and the neighborhood's not alerted. >> not alerted, no. if they wish to, and they wish to appeal, i think they could, but i'm not sure on that. >> so your question that i

asked to the appellant that had been there 40 years, can you elaborate, does the florist require a d.p.w. permit, as well. >> so the florist, i think they're under an ordinance or a special provision. >> so they're not through you or your department. >> i think they're defined in the public works code, but i don't think we allow any new florists. >> so is the permitting -- that's the question i have is, is there used to be florists on all sides, and i've got some definition from the hot dog vendor guy, but i would like clarification from the department as how that went. >> sorry. >> i mean, why did they leave? 'cause just from hearsay, i heard they were no longer allowed to be on those corners. and so the only one that would not allow them to be on the corner would be the department, which would be your department. that's the question i'm asking you. >> i think if -- i'm not too familiar with the flower arts or flower stands, and if it was

in this -- the construction area, the central subway, i believe they'd work with m.t.a. and public works to relocate. i'm sure that's how -- i wasn't part of that, so i can't really speak to that. >> was that a question related to this case? >> yeah, it is related to this case. >> or other interests? >> it is related to this case. and then, i have a question for the ice cream truck. >> no, i have a question for mr. cohen. >> okay. >> how do you determine congestion? >> how do we determine congestion? we -- i think it's hard to make a determination without -- >> it's traffic analysis, right? >> no, we don't do traffic analysis, no. if we were presented one, we would probably present it to m.t.a. as the traffic arm and make a determination. we're not traffic specialists. we don't review transportation in that respect.

>> so the permit is not subject to congestion at all? >> well, there's words. >> well, that's what i'm trying to get at. >> yeah. >> they're qualitative, you know? >> i believe the permit's requirements or the path of travel requirements and the serving requirements, that's captured in the requirement that the sidewalk be 10 feet for food trucks and 15 feet for push trucks. because the push cart is on the sidewalk, so you need that area. the distance from the curb for the push cart, and then, you need the path of travel space. i believe that's how they came up with those widths when they came up with the code. >> okay. >> and the shy distance that they referred to in the brief. >> that's not in the code. >> or in your quantitative analysis, right? >> no. >> okay, and again, i have a question for the permit holder.

so on the vehicle that you're going to use, is that vehicle going to be stripped and be towed into the property or is it going to be driving in in its own power. >> it's going to be driving in on its own. >> i'm going to be amazed how much ice cream you're going to be able to get there. i've been to your shop, as well. >> okay. that was my question. >> okay. commissioners, this matter is submitted. >> comments, commissioners? >> you want to go first, i've been blazing all night long, literally. >> i'm prepared to support the permit. i don't know how i feel about the restriction. >> i'm not supportive of the

permit. i think there's too much congestion there and not just at those special times that they've brought forth, but the entire area's packed. i'm talking about regular days. and the usage of this is different than some of the other streets. when you have streets that are fronted by mainly office buildings, it's come and go, it's a little more permanent for the issue of congestion. here, where you have people that are there with no time frame, and i think therefore, based upon my experience, the congestion is already quite a bit, and i personally wouldn't have wanted to see anything on that sidewalk.

>> i'll start, then, you know, continue. so as a small minority businessperson for a very, very long time, over 30 years, i'm, one, a proponent of small business. i think that san francisco in general was based on that prin principal. you look at all the companies that starts here, levi strauss, esprit, gap, and the list goes on and on. i know that neighborhood really well. i'm down there on a regular basis. that block is -- of all the blocks, that block, it's just extremely, extremely congested. so my concern would be, one,

for pedestrian safety. i mean, i'd love to see a small business succeed and bring some special spark back to -- to the district. but at the same time, it's not that i'm supportive of large business, but big business, if you folks go down to union square, which i was at today, and you see the amount of empty space and storefronts, it's scary. retail is leaving our city at an alarming, alarming rate. and yes, i'm bad. i had three orders of amazon dropped off at my house today, and i'm, you know -- it's tough. i think that retail in the city needs all the help they can get. i'm not super supportive, and the only way that i would be is if a -- a deed of restrictions or some -- some restrictions

regarding keeping the footprint of the 1978 volkswagen vanagon and for it not to increase in size in any shape or form away, and that's the -- any shape or form or way, and that's the only way i would support it. >> well, i have to take some offense to my fellow commissioner. you -- retail, like anything else must adapt. if it doesn't adapt, it dis. it's just -- the market speaks, and i don't think we should prevent small businesses from being somewhere because retail is having a difficult time. the more concern i have -- and i don't frequent that area as much as you do, is that it is congested, but i don't know that this small business should be punished for our perception of congestion when there's been no real studies, and the department has passed on it. and your idea about a

restriction intrigued me enough that i would go commissioner lazarus' way on a yes, but your way on the restriction. but president fong does have some sway on my, so i am a little concerned about the congestion. >> if there's three votes to -- or two votes to deny the appeal, then -- then -- you need three votes minimum -- >> to continue. >> -- to continue in support of the appeal. >> or to continue. >> or to continue. >> correct. >> well, i'll make a motion to grant the appeal and condition the permit on a restriction that the size of the vehicle

never exceeds the proposed one. >> 1978 volkswagen vanagon. >> okay. we have a motion from commissioner lazarus to grant the appeals and issue the permit on the condition that the vehicle under the permit be limited in size to a 1978 v.w. bus. >> can i have the basis. >> on the basis that restricting it that the permit was properly issued and the restriction will address some of the concerns about congestion. >> okay. so on the basis of the permit was properly issued and will address some concerns about congestion. so on that motion -- [roll call]

>> okay. so we have -- do we need to continue this matter? >> no. >> okay. so -- >> that being the appeal. >> motion fails. >> yeah, motion fails. >> yeah. so -- but we have the motion to grant the appeals, we have three yeses, right, so since commissioner swig is -- >> so if the -- if they want to maintain the condition, then, we have to continue this case. >> okay. >> so i would make -- you want to make a motion to continue or i'll make a motion to continue. >> okay. >> make a motion to continue that the missing commissioner -- that we can hear his vote on it. >> sorry. i'm a little confused. >> so -- okay. i just had it.

[inaudible] >> the motion was to grant the appeals and issue the permit under the condition that the the permit -- well, you would grant the appeal and issue the permit -- >> we're not debating this, okay? there's no thing we're going to take from the audience at this point. you don't understand the procedures. if you want a condition, you have to grant the appeal, okay? >> right. i think that's how i did it. >> yeah. yeah. >> you need four votes. >> so we need -- we need four votes to grant the appeal. we have three votes in support of that motion, which means we need to continue the matter. >> that's why i made a motion to continue it for the -- >> to see where the fifth commissioner stands. >> correct. so on commissioner honda's motion to continue the matter, and this would be to the next meeti

meeting -- >> next meeting? >> which is july 11. >> that's fine. [roll call] >> this is on the continuance? >> if we continue it, we will get vice president swig to vote. >> i'm still voting no. >> well, thank you for voting on the record. this matter is continued to july 11 where we will get vice president swig's vote on the motion. thank you. this concludes the hearing. go.

>> shop and dine the 49 promotes local businesses and changes san franciscans to do their shopping and dooipg within the 49 square miles by supporting local services within the neighborhood we help san francisco remain unique, successful and vibrant so where will you shop and dine the 49 hi in my mind a ms. medina

>> self-planning works to

preserve and enhance the city what kind hispanic the environment in a variety of ways overhead plans to fwied other departments to open space and land use an urban design and a variety of other matters related to the physical urban environment planning projects include implementing code change or designing plaza or parks projects can be broad as proipd on overhead neighborhood planning effort typically include public involvement depending on the subject a new lot or effect or be active in the final process lots of people are troubled by they're moving loss of they're

of what we preserve to be they're moving mid block or rear yard open space. >> one way to be involved attend a meeting to go it gives us and the neighbors to learn and participate dribble in future improvements meetings often take the form of open houses or focus groups or other stinks that allows you or your neighbors to provide feedback and ask questions the best way to insure you'll be alerted the community meetings sign up for the notification on the website by signing up using you'll receive the notifications of existing request the specific neighborhood or project type if you're language is a disability accomodation please call us 72 hours before the event over the

events staff will receive the input and publish the results on the website the notifications bans feedback from the public for example, the feedback you provide may change how a street corridors looks at or the web policy the get started in planning for our neighborhood or learner more mr. the upcoming visit the plans and programs package of our we are talking about with our feedback and participation that is important to us not everyone takes this so be proud of taking ann >> president hillis: good afternoon and welcome to the san francisco planning commission regular hearing for thursday,