out of commission without recommendation to land use. >> supervisor safai: on july 16. great. thank you. so moved. thank you, everyone. and thank you for your hard work, to the staff, i meant to start with that. we'll see you again in land use. please call the next item. >> clerk: item 3 to amend the charter of san francisco to adopt a privacy first policy on an election november 6, 2018. >> supervisor safai: maybe we can skip this item -- can we come back to this item? can you call item 4? i want to make sure that supervisor peskin's office has an opportunity to come for this item. >> clerk: item 4 is a motion approving or rejecting the mayor's nomination for the reappointment of joseph marshall to the police commission for a term ending april 30, 2022. >> supervisor safai: thank you. mr. marshall, please come forward.

>> how are you again? >> supervisor safai: good. how are you, sir? >> good. i think i sent everybody some information, once again about my willingness to serve another term on the police commission. i've been calling myself the commissioner in limbo for the last weeks. i'm glad it's before the rules committee again and hopefully it will go to the full board. i think i spoke last time of the culture that needs to change and the things we have done. i've been part of in the last few years to make that culture

change. the things that are still on the table, in particular for me, that i want to contribute and finish. so i'm looking forward to any additional questions that you might have from previous. and i'm ready for them. thank you very much, all of you. >> supervisor safai: checked your head, ready to go, ready to do this? >> yeah. [laughter] >> supervisor safai: just trying to get you to laugh. supervisor yee? >> supervisor yee: just quickly. how many terms have you served? how long have you been on the police commission? remind me. >> 14 years. two, four, four, four -- and anyway, adds up to 14. >> supervisor yee: just so that -- in case there are new listeners, remind us -- in 14 years, what were your biggest accomplishmen

accomplishments. >> say that again? >> supervisor yee: in the 14 years on the commission, what were one or two of your biggest accomplishments? >> i actually sent you a whole -- but to sum up, looking back on it, one of the early things that i think is important, when i got on the commission, there was a tremendous backlog of cases. and maybe early on, completely new body at that time, recommissioned after prop h. i have been off for a couple of months, so i haven't seen the latest figures, but we had it down to about 10 cases that have to be resolved. that was a huge, huge move. it took a lot of work with all the commissioners that i served with and also the chiefs i've been able to work with.

and i consider that a huge, huge boon to getting the cases down to the relatively few we have now. beyond that, the body cameras, these things happened in the last few years. c.i.t., and then probably it is something we've been working on in the last couple of years, is all the policies with d.o.j., recommendations to d.o.j. that have to be put in place. and we moved post-haste to get those things done. you know, things have been trending downward, at least the reports that i have had. use of force is down. complain complaints are down. like i say, it a takes a long time to change a culture. and the big thing is that

progress is being made. progress is being made. it's not perfect, but that's what we're working on, is to get this -- to make it the model department for the united states. yes, sir. >> supervisor yee: i guess 14 years, so you were here in 2008, the police executive research forum? >> perf, yes. >> supervisor yee: they recommended a bunch of things. as of today, i guess, how do you -- explain how the commission really stays on top of all these reports and recommendations and what -- there seems to be some outstanding recommendations that

haven't been addressed. can you say something about that? >> you are talking about the perf report done back in 2008? >> supervisor yee: right. i guess some of the issues that they highlighted have not been dealt with. >> yeah. i would have to specifically see and take a look at the perf report to see what you are referring to. i know -- although the perf report exists -- and i would have to look at it. that has not come back to the commission table. i don't remember it being at commission table for a while other things took precedent, especially around the shootings, the chiefs we've had since 2008, hiring new chiefs, hiring new p.a. person. so i cannot specifically answer that question unless i have a look at some of the recommendations that you are talking about. >> supervisor yee: i guess there

was an overarching one that asked for a blueprint to follow, in other words, a strategy, to improve the police department and that seems not to have been developed. >> you are talking about a strategic plan for the department? is that what you are talking about? i know we worked on that. i have to see the specific thing you are referring to. >> supervisor yee: okay. let me change direction then. a lot of us on the board and the public have been focusing on the police department and i assume the commissioners also. in trying to make changes in the police department, whether it's from the d.o.j. or even inte internally and it's been slow.

what are the factors that actually causes the sort of slow, cultural change, trying to improve the police department? >> that's interesting. i don't think it's been particularly slow. i think it just takes time to have those things done. there's a whole body of general orders that has to be looked at and scrutinized. one of the things that we're fortunate is that the d.o.j. came to us and asked us to do collaborative reform. if we did this, it wouldn't have to be a takeover. the structures we have in san francisco, both the police commission and the city government structure that they said, we can do this collaboratively. we don't have to take over. we gave you a whole list of things to work with. they added more things to the list because they wanted to --

they wanted us to be the model. so i actually think that work has gone as quickly as possible and i think we made some major, major changes in the department just in the past three years particularly around use of force, particularly around body cameras, particularly around c.i.t. training. we are moving to implicit bias training. those all of those things are not quick things. it took us a while to get the discipline. a lot of people don't understand that we do discipline. most police department the chief can fire. our chief cannot fire. he can only recommend discipline. which means all the discipline cases have to come to the commission. so that's why i said, moving that body, that docket, down to the few numbers we have now -- and we have some high-profile

cases that take time. so i think all of those factors, i think the commission, with commissions coming and going, and we've done this under a number of chiefs we've had to hire a couple of directors. and people tell me, we meet a lot and do a lot. so i think that the -- while the pace may not have been as fast as folks like, to have lasting change, i think we've gone as rapidly as we could, and we're making, i think, significant process. it's not perfect, but it takes that long to change the culture. >> supervisor yee: one of the -- actually, one of the regulations that the commission approved was to ban the shooting into moving vehicles. so you created a policy and yet it seems like in the last year or so, there's been several incidents of police officers shooting at moving vehicles.

what are your thoughts about that? >> it took a long time to get. we were pretty nonnegotiable at shooting at moving vehicles. there were a lot of challenges, i guess, from -- particularly from the union that said they did not necessarily like that. but we put a blanket policy in place. as those things arise, and i need to know what specific cases you are talking about, they do go back to the chief. they do go back and we launder them through the policy to see if they're in policy. if they're not in policy, discipline ensues. but i like the rule. i like the zero tolerance rule about shooting into vehicles. i think it has cut down on those incidents, but again, you have to continue the training. we have to continue the selection of officers. and, again, i keep going back

to, you are trying to change a mind-set that's been in place for a lot of folks for a long time. as those things come up, i think the commission deals with them fairly effectively. >> supervisor yee: okay. i appreciate your answers. >> supervisor safai: thank you. mr. marshall, i know that you talked a lot about what you have worked on, but what are some of the outstanding issues that you would like to tackle again, just for the record. i know we talked about it last time. what are some of the reasons that you would like to continue on the commission, some of the outstanding work that you said you would like to continue to work on? >> i work with young people. let's go back to square one. [laughter] i remember when i got appointed, the first thing that mayor newsom asked me, why do you want to be on the commission? i said, my community has enough problems and don't need the police to make them worse, that's what i told him.

and i asked him why he wanted me on the commission. he said, because you're fair. so those guided me in my tenure on the commission. quite frankly, young people are involved with police. i'm not a young black man anymore, but i grew up with those issues myself. and i want to have that relationship. there's been a gap traditionally. it's historical. it's exacerbated by incidents here and around the country. we've seen the incidents pick up in the last few years, everywhere. the cell phone cameras has had a lot to do with that. so it's opened up some raw issues. getting that back, getting that back to a place where, you know, those things are going smoothly as possible. the police are not going anywhere. so we have to make that work.

police violence and community violence are the things that i dedicate my life to. i'm a stop-the-violence person. so when i say i see use of force going down, when i say fewer complaints -- and, again, this is happening through constant change in the department. chief fong was there when i started. now chief scott. so, yeah, that's important to me. in fact, people have asked me, do you really want to do this again? i said, yeah, i do, because it takes a long time. just as it takes time to change the culture of violence in a community, it takes time to change the culture in a police department. so i -- that's what i want to see. there are a couple of things i want to work on, implicit bias was my area. i don't know if they moved it to somebody else in the last few months, but it's my area. that's a new frontier.

that's something that has never really been dealt with, the lens that people bring to policing. i know that is what happens at police stopped. there's a lot of latitude. i don't want bias to be a part of that. if there is bias, i don't want it to affect decision-making. that's a big deal for me. and the other thing that is important to me right now is the -- i think we're well aware that we have cases where there are multiple shots fired. and people don't get that. i don't get that. that's something that i want to hone in on and i don't know if it has to do with weaponry or training, but i want it to be common sense that when there's a shooting that there are not 50 bullets fired. and, thirdly, i understand there's an assembly. i'm hazy on this.

that the constitutional standard for police officers is if he or she feels for her life. and i would like to -- i understand there's a bill in the assembly that more mirrors the policy we have now that an officer would use force when it's necessary, totality of circumstances. i think that would aid greatly if we could get that and get that to be the community standard. i think that would go a long way toward use of force when it comes to officer-involved shootings. >> supervisor safai: thank you. any other questions or comments? thank you, mr. marshall. we'll call you back up if we have any further questions. let's open it up for public comment. any member of the public wish to comment, please come forward. you will have 2 minutes. >> good morning, good afternoon, supervisors. i honestly didn't come to speak on this item here.

i came to get my credentials for the big event happening wednesday. london breed. okay. i'm focused. i have my time. i know how to work my time. i'm good at this, like trump. i know how to work the tv. right now, i'm supporting dr. marshall. i knew him when he first came to the police commission. i go back further than he did, but he's doing a wonderful job. i talked to him in fillmore and said, when will you retire? he said, i ain't going to retire until i change things. i said, you will probably be old and gray. because things won't get changed in my lifetime or your lifetime. we deal with a racist part of the city, the police department. but i admire him for wanting to complete it. i'm ace and i'm on the case and i support him. there are some things that he

talked about that we'll talk about later, but i cannot say it in 50 seconds, but i'm here to say it to the city and county of san francisco by the bay, where they think everything's okay. but this year and the next year, you will hear what i got to say. i'm going to start my own tv show. it's called ace. i have 30 seconds. don't mess with me, supervisor. that's what i'm doing this. i started the government channel. you go back and ask them. and i will regain that. i'm coming back to city hall, back by popular demand. ace on the doggone case, whether you like it or not. people will look at my show and i can talk about you, supervisors, as long as i want. my name is ace and i'm on the case.

>> supervisor safai: thank you. next speaker. >> jackie varshack, san franciscans for police accountability. i want to speak in opposition to the reappointment of joe marshall. since his 2004 appointment and during his tenure, san francisco police department has become a rogue agency. and unaccountable. in 2015, it was rated to be the ace city in the country to have the most officer-involved shootings. the depth of bias that exists in the san francisco police department is great. where has joe marshall been? the reason he could not be held accountable for his record and his accomplishments is because he hasn't accomplished anything on the board. when asked about the cases of

officer-involved text messaging has been resolved, he wasn't able to answer. he doesn't respond to the racism, the implicit bias that is within the san francisco police department. he is coming up for reappointment because he believes that he can be the tool of the mayor on the police department and that is to carry out the will of the police officers' association. that's his reason and purpose for being on the commission. so, lastly, i want to confirm in the many police commission meetings i've attended, he had no courage to speak up against the police officers' association. instead, he is often seen sleeping during meetings.

thank you. >> supervisor safai: next speaker. >> good morning, supervisors. i'm alexander post. co-chair of the justice committee for the democratic socialists of america. i'm here also in opposition to the reappointment of dr. marshall. while i think his commitment to public service is admirable over the past 14 years, i think some of the things we've heard addressed today highlights some problems. i mean, during that time period, you've had sfpd scandals ranging fajita-gate to racist text message scandal and, obviously, the officer-involved shootings including the most recent one with the man who was shot in the back in north beach. you know, i heard dr. marshall address the 2008 perf study and

mention that it became less of a priority because they had crises come up. that's been the problem with his tenure the last 14 years. it's a police commission, and dr. marshall specifically, addressing crisis-by-crisis, without looking at the reforms that need to be undertaken. he mentioned that they made progress the last three years, and that's admirable. we're talking about a 14-year tenure and problems pointing out for a long time and if we're just addressing implicit bias when we have so many examples of explicit bias that need addressing, that's also a problem. so, finally, i think 14 years is a good time to serve. it would be good to have a new voice on the commission and a more proactive commission that is not bouncing crisis to crisis, but leading on the reforms necessary for this department. thank you very much for your

time. >> supervisor safai: thank you. next speaker. >> good morning. my name is demorris evans, chairperson for racial justice committee at the san francisco public defender's office. i'm here to speak out in opposition to the reappointment of joe marshall to the police commission. the racial justice committee has worked tirelessly to try to bring about law enforcement reform here in san francisco. i personally have sat in on a number of executive sponsor working group meetings with the police department in which mr. marshall has been present. i have yet to actually observe mr. marshall speaking out strongly against the rogue behavi behavior and opposition to law enforcement reform on behalf of the police officers' association, which is the main culprit, which prevents this city from moving forward much

more aggressively in law enforcement reform. they're condemning some horrific behaviors on behalf of the police officer association. it's my understanding that dr. marshall or joe marshall receives funding from the police officers' association, which may explain some of his positions in support of tasers, not speaking out against proposition h, and a number of other things that the police officers association has done, which has essentially prevented effective law enforcement reform here in san francisco. i'm here to speak out against joe marshall and the police commission. it's time for the police commission to be more active in ushering in really 21st century

procedures and policies. and his record here is not consistent with that. so i would strongly urge not to support his reappointment. thank you. >> supervisor safai: thank you. any other members wish to comment on this item? seeing none, public comment's closed. any additional comments from colleagues. supervisor yee? >> supervisor yee: dr. marshall? >> supervisor safai: dr. marshall, please come back. thank you. >> supervisor yee: i heard something from the last speaker and i want to give you an opportunity to respond. she mentioned that p.o.a. somehow supports your organization for funding or something? and if that's so, how do you deal with the conflict of interest? >> p.o.a. would support the

organization. i think what people are referring to is there's an organization that has a golf tournament and police officers play in the golf tournament and they -- that organization donates money to a scholarship fund for young people to go to college. when that -- that hasn't happened for a few years. however, when that came about, i actually checked with the city attorney to see if that was a problem. when asked several times, when asked if there's a conflict, they told me no. they told me no. 5 wanted to make sure that it wasn't a problem. police officers want to see young people to go to college. you are invited also to participate and help young people go to college. that's the only thing i can think of. i don't get any money at all.

and let me just say something. i've heard this before and i'm not quite sure why. by the time legislation gets to us, the p.o.a. has weighed in, like everybody else, on every single thing. way get a consensus from the p.o.a., from the aclu. everybody buys into everything. we might get something where 5% has now been agreed upon. at that point anyone -- just like here, public comment can come up and say what, in fact, they want to do. they get 3 minutes. quite frankly, when i good to make the legislation, i look at each thing. i hear from this group. i hear from that group. nobody influences me. let's get that straight. i just want to tell you. nobody influences me. willie brown told me when i got an this thing, he said, the best thing about being on the commission is to be fair and to

be impartial. and all i hear in the end is what this group wants, what this group wants, which has to do with a narrow band of things. after speaking out, you know, people make legislation so that -- and let's talk about the p.o.a., where they're given certain rights it do certain things, like put things on the ballot, like negotiating all that is made by the city and county of san francisco. that's their right. they can do that. if people want police commissioners to stand up and do so and so, then i don't think -- that's not -- maybe other commissions want it do that. that's not what i believe i should do. i believe i should be impartial. look at the facts that they come. i'm in discipline. i'm like a juror. i have to be impartial. that's just what i do, period. >> supervisor yee: okay. i just wanted to give you the

opportunity to -- >> and by the way, i do not sleep in commission meetings. if you look at the kids, dr. marshall is always in thought. i hold my head down. i listen and see everything. believe me, i could not do any work if i was sleeping. that is completely -- that's just my manner. >> supervisor yee: okay. thank you. >> thank you. >> supervisor safai: supervisor stefani? >> supervisor stefani: just one question. >> and can i say one other thing? i think it's important that has people that want to support the chief. >> supervisor stefani: to follow up on the opposition that we did here today. just wondering if you would be willing to sit down with them individually? i don't know if they would be. i haven't had that conversation. but would you be willing to talk to people about their concerns. we learn more from the people that disagree with us than the

people that agree with us. going forward, i think having the one-on-one conversations are helpful. i don't know if they're willing, but if you are willing, i would like to know that. >> a couple things. i could have packed this room easily. in fact, people asked me -- kids want to come, city people want to come. i said, it's not necessary. i don't believe in that. it's not my thing. i will talk to everybody. all i do is talk to people. i did a radio show last night talking to 200,000 people. i talk to people all the time about issues. i don't have a problem talking to anybody. if they want to talk, let's talk. >> supervisor safai: any other questions? okay. seeing none, can we entertain a motion or any further conversation? supervisor yee? >> supervisor yee: i think one of the reasons why the first go-around a month ago, i guess, the full board had a discussion

around the candidates at the time and they didn't -- and the main premise of why we are selecting police commissioners by the mayor at that point and when we know that there will be a new mayor coming in? there are some -- and i think most of us support that notion. and then mayor farrell, again, just resubmitted, and put us in a situation is, is this what a new mayor would want? so i think we should have an opportunity at full board to see if a new mayor would want this or not. and i -- i would like to make a motion to send this out of

committee with no recommendation. >> supervisor safai: we've been joined by supervisor cohen. and i think supervisor cohen wanted to ask some questions. excuse me, president cohen. >> supervisor cohen: all right. good after than, everybody. i thought it was only fair that i come to the rules committee to share some of the knowledge that i have gained in the last couple of years that i've been working on this particular issue when it comes to police reform. i have, as you know, we had a long hearing, four hours, and i think it's only fire that -- fair that i ask some of the same questions. so i would like to ask dr. marshall to come on up. good morning, dr. marshall, just a few preliminary questions, as you probably will know the answers to most of them. welcome. so maybe we could start at the top. and if you said this in your

opening remarks, my apologies. what is your understanding of the role, power and authority of the police commission? >> the police commission is an oversight body. it helps to make policy, procedures. it selects a chief. selects the d.p.a. it deals with discipline. it helps to shape the way the department runs. it's a pretty vast and important job. in a nutshell, that's how i would sum up the role of the police commission in general. >> supervisor cohen: what is your position on the carrotid artery restraint? >> we don't have it. it's not part of the policy of

the department. >> supervisor cohen: if i'm not mistaken, you took a vote on this and i would like for you to state for the record what your vote was. >> at that particular time, i was concerned that we did not have any options for the department less than lethal, less-than-lethal options. i believe what happened when we came through -- and i have to go back to that particular time and i have to remember my particular vote -- i think that i wanted to keep -- oh, i know. we took a lot of testimony about was it legal or not? was it a chokehold? i have to remember my specific vote. it was, yes, to keep it, until something else came in play, or in fact, i ended up voting -- i

don't remember particularly what my particular vote was, but i know as a whole, the commission said no carotid. that's part of the policy. >> supervisor cohen: i'm only interested in what your position is. >> my position is, we shouldn't have it. >> supervisor cohen: correct me if i'm wrong, you voted for it. so we understand, it's close to a chokehold. it's the hold that the new york police department did on eric gardner, infamous police case, who is known to not only cut off oxygen, but potentially to kill people. >> i think what happened was, when we voted on the policy, we voted the carotid out. >> supervisor cohen: that's correct. i'm not interested in the body's position. i'm interested in your position. the series of questions help us to reflect on your votes, on your position.

and the key indicator that will determine what we can expect from you in future votes. so my question again, is very simple -- did you or did you not vote to keep the carotid restraint? >> at that point, because we didn't have any other use of force options, i believe i did vote -- and at that point, there was nothing that we knew about the carotid causing deaths. we had testimony. so i think i did. it may have been because we didn't have anything else. i want to keep in that place until we had something else, so, yes, i think i did vote for it. >> supervisor cohen: okay. thank you. can you speak to the unique san francisco police department struggles within the department? >> the struggles? >> supervisor cohen: struggles. >> i'm not sure what you mean by struggles? >> supervisor cohen: one could

refer to it as racist, homophobic text messages. another struggle could be officers that could be found to do wrongdoing but are still employed. there is bias. there's arrest rates. there's the struggle internally about tasers. there are many struggles. i would like for you to articulate one of them. >> there are many challenges that urban police departments face, period. they're historic. they're not only in the san francisco police department. they've been shown to be national in scope. we have been tackling those one at a time, as they have come up. everything from officer-involved shootings to racist text messages, to just -- all of those things. and we have addressed those things by passing general orders to begin to blunt and stop those things from happening. >> supervisor cohen: i wanted to

know specifically -- not nationally -- what are some of the challenges that you identify that exist in the san francisco police department? >> so i began with the backlog of cases that we had. we had to move forward so that we could address discipline and get those down so that officers would not be on the docket for such a very long time. >> supervisor cohen: how long have you been serving? was it 14 years? >> 14 years. 26 to 27 different commissioners since i started. >> supervisor cohen: that's a long time. sorry. you were speaking to some of the unique struggles. >> that was a newly constituted commission. that was a big deal, getting those down from 80 to i think it's about 10 now. discipline takes a long time. as i said before, the commission can't -- sorry, the chief can't

fire. so adjudicating the cases takes a lot of work and especially now being a lawyer, i'm one of the few commissioners, one of two, sometimes i've been the only lawyer not on there. so becoming very good at running those things, it's a major, major deal. i'm just thinking of everything moving forward. the chiefs we've had. the text messages, those are challenges. being able to deal with them, being able to dismiss officers. we have been able to dismiss a number of officers. officers have retired because they felt they would be dismissed by the department. there are procedural things that

have developed, where some of the cases were taken out of our hands and moved to superior court. we cannot rule on that until they come back to us. the officer-involved shootings were huge. we've never had anything like -- >> supervisor cohen: the use of force policy just passed two years ago. what are some of the accomplishments in the 12 years prior to serving? >> i could have made a list of all of the things. >> supervisor cohen: did you put it in your packet? >> i sent the packet to -- yes, i did. >> supervisor cohen: maybe you can just for my -- >> i did send a packet to them. i didn't know that other supervisors needed to be included. i would have done that. >> supervisor cohen: dr. marshall, i've been working on this issue for years. you, of all people, should have reached out the packet would have been

helpful. >> i was expecting, supervisor, that the folks that needed the information were those on the rules committee. however, i can certainly send you the accomplishments and the things that we've had happen since i've been on the commission. and there's been a number of things, yes. >> supervisor cohen: okay. please list five. >> use of force policy, huge. very huge. change of direction and how the commission uses force. c.i.t. officers, huge. they approach things very differently. that's being phased into all -- eventually, it will be phased in through all the offices in the -- in san francisco unified. in the p.d., approaches they're taking -- that's so important that now we have actually a

ceremony for those trained in c.i.t. body cameras, a big, big deal. getting footage of what is happening. children of incarcerated parents. that's a general order that we put together. i can actually get on my phone and start to read them to you. >> supervisor cohen: when you say children of incarcerated parents, you mean that the police department has made an agreement to not arrest in front of their children. >> yes. if you give me a moment here, i can go to them and start to read them to you. >> supervisor cohen: no. i was interested in what you can recall. i think we should move on. i have a few more questions to go through. just trying to garner your understanding of the commonality of police misconduct. how often does it happen? sitting on the police commission, you probably have

seen and heard some things in open session as well as closed session. i'm not asking for you to comment on anything that's in closed session. above i want to get a feel for how common police misconduct is. >> it depends on how you define it. serious misconduct is what comes to us. we get less than before. and i think that's because we've been working through the chief and what we've put together, we're getting fewer referrals. i can just say -- yeah, i can say that, because i remember it was 80. now we're down to less than 10. and i've been off for a couple of months. i haven't seen the documents. but as far as i know, it's been down. some of the big ones, the racist text messages were huge, but we were not able necessarily -- the ones we were able toage out

adjudicate and got to us, we did. some were in supreme court. again, i've been off for a couple of months, so don't have the latest stats. use of force is down. what you want to see is the things that are beginning to work. use of force is down. complaints to the d.p. are down. things are trending downward. i think the chief has done a great job, as we've gotten working on the d.o.j. recommendations. if i had a graph and i would put it up there and show where things were going, it would be this way. it takes a -- i said it before -- long time to change the culture. you come from the bayview. it takes a long time to change a culture. one of the reasons that i've successful with my young people is i stayed on the coach changing the culture. i know that.

i could have stopped after 5 years, 10 years. this is my 31st year working with young people. i'm only paralleling the time it takes to do it. i've been on the radio for 25 years. i don't get paid, by the way, to do that, and i've seen changes. now the police thing is -- talking about san francisco, but other thing is that what happens when policing is affected by what happens elsewhere. the young people that i talk to tells me, dr. marshall, things are getting better, things are getting better. >> supervisor cohen: let me ask you a question about the young people. they of a articulated a fear of getting shot by police. you have advocated tasers. do young people ask for tasers? >> we had a listening session

around that. and young people wanted information about tasers. a number of them -- and they were all over the map. a lot of them said, it's better than shooting somebody. they said that. another said, i'm skafrd -- scared of the police. i don't know what they will do. they were -- like a lot of the general public, concerned about police operations, period. a lot of them, you know -- what happens with police and young people depends on the contact that they have. that's why the contact is so important. i know a lot of young people that say, yeah, we have problems, but this officer is different, this officer is different. not all officers are like that. that's the state of policing. >> supervisor cohen: what is your professional position on tasers? >> i voted for them twice. >> supervisor cohen: and what is your vision for the future of

the san francisco police department? >> my vision? >> supervisor cohen: yes. >> wow. that it become the best department in the united states. that it reverses -- that it closes the gap between police and community. that use of force is something that is rarely used, that it is -- that people are treated fairly. that traffic stops, those encounters come out well. that we have officers that are into service. that we have a department that serves the public well and citizens feel good about the department. >> supervisor cohen: how do you define successful reform?

>> that's a good question. i think the beginning of successful reform is getting the reform done. that's number one. and number two, you have to see if the reform has an effect. if we bust in a use-of-force policy in and we see use-of-force incidents going down, that defines success. does that mean there will never be an incident involving use of force? i hope not. as those things come up, we deal with it, look at it. one of the things that i mentioned is that there is a bill -- i said this before you came in -- at the assembly. the standard now is the constitutional standard, where a police officer can -- if he feels justified because he fears for his life, can use force. then we would like a community standard that mirrors what we have in our policy, which is --

sanctity of life, all of that, but the community policy, the policy that the bill has to do with, is use force only when necessary given the totality of circumstances. that would mirror what we've put in our use-of-force policy. training, according to the policy, again, bias is a big deal. it means you get a different type of officer that wants to serve and i have to tell you, supervisor, i'm hearing and talk to people all the time -- a lot of it comes from people who come here and they say, i've had different encounters with officers. i expected one thing and i got another. you know as well as i know, it takes a -- it takes time to change the culture. and you can only change the culture if you keep your eyes on the prize. and, frankly, i think i can be of help in doing that. it's something i want to do because i work with young people. but i want it to happen regardless. it has to happen because i

cannot think of any more lightning rod in the communities that we serve than the police. >> supervisor cohen: so two questions. first, one of the things that makes me most concerned about your candidacy and service is that there is a blurry line of support that comes from the p.o.a. and your organization. >> why -- because i'm fair? if i'm fair -- i don't go into anything with bias. that's the worse thing that you do is go in with bias. if you are on a jury and your mind is made up, they're the enemy? you can't do that. you have to be impartial. you have to say, i will listen to you and listen to you and you will make your decision. if somebody -- i got an award one time. this is very difficult.

i got an award one time from dick armey, who is a republican, big-time republican. and i also got an award from maxine waters and from -- the long-time congressman in the east bay. and nancy pelosi. and they all came together and i remember going into -- i know this is an analogy, but i went into the congressman's officer and i said, it was the first time i've been in your office. they all agreed on me. i cannot help it if people think i'm fair. i think it's important that they think i'm fair. why have an ax to grind against anybody. if i did, i think that's the worst thing. the p.o.a. has its rights. they can do that the citizens have their rights.

when it comes to making policy, 95% of that policy is agreed upon by the time it gets to us. the aclu, the p.o.a., all the citizens groups, come together and they give us a document and they agree on 95% of the stuff. there may be 5% that the commission has to sort out and say, okay, okay. we hear 3 minutes of public comment from everybody and we make a decision. nobody is in anybody's ear, certainly not in my ear. nobody pulls me aside and has conversations with me. no one. if you don't believe that, you shouldn't appoint me. that's just the truth. nobody does. the fact that they think i'm fair when it comes to that, is a good thing. i think you would want everybody, anybody, i think they think you should be fair. if they don't, then i believe you are not doing a service. they should say, i'm going to walk in and say something, and

you will give me a fair hearing. that's the most important thing. i work with kids. i teach them to be fair. if i didn't, i have to live what i teach. >> supervisor cohen: you sound a little defensive and i'm accused. i don't know why. your manries -- mannerism, and tone. >> that's passion. >> supervisor cohen: what are some of the facts and circumstances that would trigger a meet and confer? >> meet and confer is a process that has been agreed upon by the city and county of san francisco with -- well, a lot of organizations, but in this case, the p.o.a. remember, i'm not a lawyer.

if there's a question about an issue around meet and confer, i simply ask the city attorney, what are the rules? i go by what the city attorney says we should do. >> supervisor cohen: how has the city attorney advised you in the past? >> it depends on the issue. >> supervisor cohen: right. there are certain criteria that has to be satisfied in order for a meet and confer to be triggered. i want to know -- >> i can tell you the ones i've heard in regards to policy, in regards to, what's the word, training, that's an issue that comes up. that's the reason why you have the city attorney present, so you can be clear about what is necessary?

if you watch, this particular issue, is it meet and confer issue? and then they do research. >> supervisor cohen: okay. well, city attorney is a human being, and also could be subject to -- >> city attorney represents the city and county of san francisco in those areas. >> supervisor cohen: all right. i'm trying to ascertain from you if you have the ability to hear something that the city attorney has to agree or has the own interpretation of the law. >> and disagree? >> supervisor cohen: agree or disagree. >> normally i ask the other attorneys on the board that are really attorneys who are much

more versed in is that kind of law than i am and i ask them, what do they think. in the enened -- in the end, w defer to the opinions of the city attorney because they interpret for us. >> supervisor cohen: that's one interpretation. do you even acknowledge the fact that the city attorney could give an opinion or make a recommendation? >> i always try to understand what they're saying. >> supervisor cohen: so based on what will trigger meet and confer, what are they? what is your process? you pivot and say, what do you think? and then you just go with it? >> a lot of times the questions come up in not necessarily -- they come up not in the public

and since i do come up in closed sessions and that's privileged information, i will try to get as much of an understanding about the legal implications involved in this and why it shouldn't. and obviously, dealing with city attorneys, it comes up in settlements and the things you do with them. yeah, i understand. i get my best information. i ask what's legal, what's not legal, what the process is, what the city has negotiated with and then we as a group decide how to move forward. >> supervisor cohen: what exactly is meet and confer? >> what is it? all right. let me see. with the use of force policy, there were certain provisions, a number of provisions, i believe that the that were subject to

the meet-and-confer process. and, in fact, we have somebody that represented the city in the meet and confer with the union over those. most of them were around training and labor conditions. i would have to look specif specifical specifically. i do believe that it is about the same so we can move forward in putting our general order in police. >> supervisor safai: i think supervisor peskin wanted to ask a question. >> supervisor cohen: i didn't see anything on the screen. meet and confer is something that mr. peskin cares deeply. >> supervisor peskin: i was not trying to interrupt. i put my name up because i am interested in asking some questions as well. >> supervisor safai: do you want to -- why don't you keep going with your line of questioning.

>> supervisor cohen: okay. going to log me in real quick. i'm just going to -- i'm going to move off of might and -- meet and confer. i did not hear what i was looking to hear. i'm going to move to the 14 years you have searched and speak to the different roles. former president of the police commission. i have not looked at your list of accomplishments. maybe you could read into the record how many assignments that you have led on. >> i don't know that we've assigned a lot of things. i've been vice president three times. i've been president. i don't know that i've been assigned -- i know i'm assigned to bias. that's the big thing i'm working on. i've probably been assigned to several committees early on -- we've had several chiefs, so it

came to getting a new chief. i've been assigned to certain things there. if i had known, i would have compiled a dossier of everything. i can't do it from peopmemory. >> supervisor cohen: i thought you would have known. you have been here. been here for 14 years. are you willing to terminate sfpd officers in closed session once satisfactory information has been presented? >> without saying names, we've terminated a number of employees, a number of sfpd officers have terminated themselves, early retirement sorngs that would not happ-- sot would not happen. that's easy. yes, that'