got to this point to where we are today. this tax discussion started in 2016 with the passage of prop 64. and last summer mayor ed lee convened a cannibas tax working group comprised of several members of his staff, including the office of cannibas, and the budget office, and the senior health advisor, my office, and the office of supervisor jeff sheehy and the office of the controller. we examined the rates and structures of our neighbors, neighboring counties, cities and counties, and we determined a few things. first, that we an adjustable rate are -- that adjust annualae rates are essential to have the data-driven approach given to have a data driven approach, give how little reliable information there is out there at this time. and, second, that a dedicated tax would be premature.

given the ambiguity around revenues, around the number of businesses and around prices and around the spending needs of the industry. it's just not enough solid information. we've decided that medicine should not be taxed and that we would go to the extent of our legal ability to keep medical cannibas taxes at a zero percent level. finally, based on the advice of our city attorney and in keeping with most of other jurisdictions in or around the city, we would move forward with a gross receipts tax. now in may my office presented a group -- my office presented to a group of industry stakeholders with a plan that had a rate adjustable up to 10% starting with retail at 5%.

and upstream businesses at 3%. and small business extension. and a super majority required to change the rates. this would go into effect this coming january. the feedback that we received from those meetings was not so much on the actual rates but more on the concern about the black market and the unlicensed operators. and i want to just underscore that because that is a real concern that this body now as well as future bodies will probably have to still grapple with and we don't have a concise answer again to address the black market and the unlicensed operators. the industry has expressed a desire to want more time and space to settle into and to gain their footing. the less that we introduced in june reflected this request. it delayed the start date to 2020 as opposed to january 2019.

and it had a phase-in with a lower rate for the first year. again, a lower rate, a lower tax rate within the first year. this phased in approach would give the industry more time to get into compliance. it would give the city some time to coordinate and implement an enforcement strategy. and after introduction we heard more from cultivators and manufacturers. cultivators had a unique perspective, they pointed out that they were -- that they are price takers in the market and like most other agricultural products and together with -- together with the manufacturers, most of these small businesses represent a union and represent a p.d.r. labor force. unlike retail these businesses are more likely to move outside of the city and i think that it's a goal of ours to want to

keep p.d.r. and union jobs inside san francisco. as such, in committee on july 12th we lowered the introductory rate for all businesses and lowered the tax rate for upstream businesses. and then the next round of industry feedback is that the industry craved normalcy and they pointed to the tax overhaul which will be conducted in partnership with the san francisco chamber of commerce and this overhaul is doing to take place some time during 2020, and the industry has asked that we not put a tax if place until after that point. last week we amended to delay any tax implementation, tax rate impelection, to after that -- implementation until after that process was completed. i believe that we have been very responsive, we've been open and thoughtful about our approach as we continue to move forward. we have worked with the controller's office to

understand the impacts of this on the tax industry and i want to thank again the controller for their thoughtful report, and we have worked with the industry to understand more about the black market, to understand what is necessary to help normalize this industry. and wanted to publicly affirm that we're not going to stop that conversation and we'll continue to move forward. and i want to also indicate that we're committed to working together on a compassion program and a compassion program, some of you may not be familiar with exactly what that is because it's very much of a colloquial term but it's a program that is set aside within the industry where people understand that not everyone has the resources to pay for cannibas. and so a compassionate program discounts the cost of cannibas for those that are in need of this medicine but do not have the resources to pay market price. and the other portion that we are working -- committed to working together on is the workforce development.

supervisor safai had consideration that we continue as we normalize this industry to begin to educate and create programs such as partnering with san francisco city college to educate a workforce that is then going to be poised to jump into the workforce and allow us to have a meaningful equity program. but we need revenue. bottom line is that we're going to need revenue to do all of this work. so what i am doing is asking the industry to come to the table and to help us to figure this all out. and i want us to be good allies but that doesn't mean no taxes. so, colleagues, this week i have received a counter proposal on rates from the industry. i have sir circulated them and u have them before you and i was uncomfortable to make this decision myself so i'm bringing them to the committee so there's a discussion around what the new proposed rates are. the industry has suggested a new

three-year phase-in starting in 2021. and ramping up to 2023. and eventually arriving to 3% for retail and 1.5% for everything outside of retail which is also identified as upstream. as you know our limits to ballot initiatives require a continuance. and i appreciate the industry engaging on this issue but given the two-month public process that we have been working through i believe that it's a little bit too late. as a reminder these are just interim rates that will appear on the ballot and the board can revise the intro rates down at any time after passage before this goes into effect. i want to make sure that we consider the options. however, if any of my colleagues believe that this is inappropriate to do so, please, let me know. the amendments today would require that we have a special meeting on tuesday morning, july 31st. and with that i open up the

discussion to colleagues. supervisor fewer. >> supervisor fewer: yes, so after review of what we have received today and actually i am of the belief that the board has the ability to amend this by ordering it to later on. and that it isn't imperative that we conclude this today. i ask the city attorney for his professional opinion on that and whether the legislation proposed allows the board to have the ability to actually make these changes later on. >> deputy city attorney john gibner. as i understand the roposa proco lower the rates for retail and non-retail and scale them up over the course of three years. between 2021 and 2023. >> chair cohen: that's correct. >> if this ordinance is not

amended and you place it on the ballot and it passes the board of supervisors can legislatively lower the rates by adopting an ordinance in the future without going back to the voters. so effectively you can accomplish what this amendment would do after the measure passes by adopting an ordinance at the board. >> chair cohen: okay, thank you very much. that's helpful. supervisor stefani, you have any thoughts? no. okay. all right, seeing that there are no thoughts -- >> i would like to say that i also believe that because it's actually more prudent to actually do it after this has gone on the ballot because then the board would have more data to choose from and to review and to actually make a sound judgment on this. and, actually, the legislation allows for that as we heard from

our city attorney. >> chair cohen: okay, appreciate that. thank you. so we can go ahead and open up to public comment. i see that we have mr. lazarus here who would like to speak on items 15 and 16? >> i am a licensed cannibas distributor in san francisco. and i want to make sure that everyone is clear on what the impact would be on a gross receipt tax. as a distributor i have three responsibilities -- transport, test and tax. i pick it up from the grower. the lab tests it to make sure that it's safe for consumption and i deliver it to the retailer and i collect excise and i collect cultivation and i give it to the state. my business operates on low margins. anywhere from 3% to 10%.

a 10% tax on gross receipts, if i buy something for $900 and i sell it for $1,000, a gross receipts tax means that i make zero dollars. i have two options -- i can charge more or i can go out of business. or i can work somewhere else. i'm just part of the value chain. every other business that i sell or buy from has to do the same thing. gross receipts tax is bad tax policy and it's a depression era policy. there are other ways to gain tax revenue. i'm very grateful for my permit and i'm hiring through the s.f. jobs portal. i know that it will be a very impactful business. please reconsider how you tax with gross receipts.

>> chair cohen: thank you. colleagues, i want to acknowledge that the distribution is exempt from the tax and that we are not discussing or considering a tax at 10%. >> jim lazarus, san francisco chamber and i appreciate your work on this and certainly supervisor cohen. we urge you to proceed with the amendment, proceed with the special meeting next tuesday and to put a measure on that will have the support of the industry and the broader business community. we believe that a tax rate that is excessive comparing the legal cannibas industry to the underground illegal industry will do nothing to move forward the type of changes that we want in this industry and to bring being it out of the shadow -- bringing it out of the shadows and taxing it and regulating it and having it available to the public in the following way. following state of california and following other communities'

misguided tax policies is not what we should be doing here today. this industry pays taxes today, and the city's gross receipts and payroll taxes apply to this industry today. but the rates that you add to that -- and, remember, these are additive, may hurt the legalization of this industry and i know that is not the intention of the board or the industry. so the chamber urges you to take seriously that proposal put forward for a further year delay for a phase-in during the start-up years of this infant legal industry. allowing the board in the future -- we don't want to appear to lower them -- hopefully this is successful enough that under your provisions you will be able in the future to raise these taxes on an healthy industry. that's what we ask you to do. there's time to do it and we request that. thank you very much. >> chair cohen: thank you, next

speaker. speaker.sfgov, can i have the overhead, please. president cohen and supervisor stefani and supervisor fewer, thank you for hearing my comments. i would like to congratulate jim lazarus and myself for being 3-3 and batting a thousand at the budget and finance sub-committee. i am pleased to hear that you are considering additional amendments. i worked with the california growers association and the chamber of commerce to create rates that this industry could get behind and support. the rates as proposed when you look at the rest of california are, in fact, reasonable for a cannibas tax. but not reasonable from a tax of any other industry. so the rates that we propose up here on the overhead, have no tax for 2019-2020 and then phase-in for retail and non-retail. i point out that retail will pay double the tax of non-retail in

our proposal here. because on retail they have a lot more hurdles than us. so consider the amendments that we've requested, consider the special committee hearing, and thank you to everyone for their very hard work on this very important matter. and if anybody is interested in learning more about the retailer alliance, alliance our website. >> chair cohen: thank you. next speaker. >> hello, my name is brandon brown, the treasurer of the sfcra, and i appreciate the board allowing us to speak on this issue. i don't want to sound like a broken record but i want to just remind the board that the reason that we tax cigarettes and alcohol and other drugs is because they kill people and

cannibas hasn't killed anybody, it's actually curing people. and so i'm not going to say that the tax isn't justified but i would love to know more about why we're getting taxes on top when no other industry has a social equity program. thank you, president cohen, for kind of spearheading that. and so compassion programs and the other industries have that. we already have pretty high tax, state tax. there's already a gross receipts tax for businesses. and so i think we're really just asking to be treated like every other business in san francisco. i guess that also the main difference between cannibas and other businesses is that we cure people, we cure ptsd, and we cure cancer and we cure child leukemia and other various basic pain allmentpain ailments that e

quality of life for a number of our elderly and the military coming back from war with a lot of issues. and pharmaceutical companies as we all know are not a big help in that respect. and so i would like to just bring some of those more emotional facts to the table when we talk about who's going to really be affected by this. it's going to be the consumer, like the distributor here pointed out, it's raising the price and they'll go out of business. so the cost will be handed off. >> chair cohen: thank you. and also i want to say, mr. brown, medicinal is not going to be taxed and recreational is what is taxed. thank you, next speaker. >> hi, i am jolene enns and i'm here as a worker in the industry. for the last 12 years i have been supplementing my income or completely supporting myself in the cannibas industry as a

worker, as a trimmer, just doing labor. and for a long time that was enough. those jobs that you used to pay $25 an hour or the equivalent are now gone. i'm fortunate that i got a job with a small cannibas company in the city. we occupy 4500-square-foot facility in soma and we have a 25,000-square-foot cultivation facility that had to be moved to oakland because we just couldn't afford to do business in the city here. i'm here today because i am worried about my job and the jobs of others like me that are going to be squeezed with more taxes on our industry. it was pretty clear before the regulations came into effect that when prices were low for wholesale product and rents were high, the only way for producers

to make up that difference was to lower the rates that they paid for their workers. so i can toitle totally see that happening in this industry too. there's no margin right now and we're really scrambling to get products on the shelf that are compliant with all of the regulations that are, you know, still shifting. so i'm here to speak for the workers that are trying to make a living in this new industry. thank you. >> chair cohen: thank you. next speaker. >> good morning, supervisors. my name is dr. chris emerson, the c.e.o. of the manufacturing company here in san francisco. we operate at a severe disadvantage already against the illicit market and so we can have runway and the state will start enforcing that, the high tax rates are destroying the companies that are trying to be compliant within this. so not only 15% excise tax but

lease taxes that we have to account for. and so upstream and downstream we have a heavy tax burden. there's also 280-even so as a business in san francisco or federally i pay roughly 30% more for taxes because we're not able to take a lot of writeoffoffs tt other businesses are. and we understand as an industry that we'll pay higher tax rates but the tax rates proposed at 1.5% with the ability it go up to 7% over time is untenable for companies to really survive or that want to remain in san francisco. and i would like to draw also to your attention supervisor cohen that there's a very significant possibility that the medicinal market in california is going to be gone in a few years. the state of california doesn't want a two-tiered system and most retailers and operators in this space, almost everything is going to quote/unquote, a recreational market. and it's just that there's too many barriers for the medicinal market to actually survive. it's something to keep in mind.

so as mr. lazarus suggested we urge you to consider this procedural needs to have one more special session so that amendments we propose could be considered, thank you. >> chair cohen: thank you, next speaker. >> my name is elaine brown and i'm here to really talk about something else. we have been trying to reach you, supervisor cohen, for some time and i have gotten emails from my office putting me off and saying you're in budget hearings and i'm here with a number of delegations from your district in hunter's point who are suffering from cancer and so forth because of the radiated land. you chose to not only expand the reach in hunter's point shipyard but said this is a dream to come true to build on that and then put the big scanners out there. i'm here to ask you can we meet with you to tell you what we want to talk about since you won't come to hunter's point and talk to the people there, that the people had to come here. i can't believe that you called all those police to come here.

i watched you text them, two minutes later they're showing up like we're enemies of the people. you have shown yourself to be an enemy if you don't have a meeting with us and give us a date for a meeting. i would like to introduce you to someone that you know well, danielle carpenter, whose husband lost his life because of that radiated land. that's my time. >> two years ago on march 22n 22nd, you and i spoke and we talked about -- you said that you would reopen the case because another whistleblower had come forth. i have not heard anything and now this is going on. we would like to schedule an appointment with you to sit down and figure out what's going on. plain and simple. >> (indiscernible). >> good morning, my name is william dolan and i'm here to speak on behalf of two applicants right now. i represent and work with two

applicants that have applicants in the office of cannibas for retail licenses and i would like to first say that we support the proposal put forward by the san francisco chapter of the california growers association, the san francisco cannibas retailers alliance, to adjust the rate schedule as proposed earlier by the gentleman that put up the schedule on the screen. and we would also like to speak in support of a cap on the tax at 4% instead of 7%. and specifically i'd like to address the issue of how this is going to impact the equity on businesses and after a two-year extremely challenging process of getting license and trying to open up their doors and dealing with the costs associated with that, securing real estate and renovating the real estate and then opening to a very challenge being competitive environment. so i'd like the board to consider the impacts that this will have on equity owners trying to operate in this small business environment and if

there's a potential for an additional grace period that asupplies to equity owned cannibas businesses. something to exceed two to three years. that would make their tax plan kick in around 2023 or 2024. and any type of additional grace period would be greatly be appreciated and extremely helpful for equity applicants trying to open up a business in san francisco. >> chair cohen: thank you. >> good morning, supervisors, my name is ryan ingo-warren and i work in the cannibas industry and a san francisco native. i thank you for your consideration on this issue and as i came in i heard about possible continuations to continue the amendments and i support that. and i apologize in advance if i repeat myself at all. i want to just offer some context. in october 2016, oregon's issues

came in effect and the supply chain backlog was so severe that it brought their cannibas industry to its knees and resulted in temporary layoffs of 70% of their workforce. and it's not that bad here yet, but there are some similarities that are alarming. and that sort is the broader context of the big part of that problem was poorly written statements that were requiring testing accuracies that the labs themselves were not yet certified to meet. unfortunately, that is identical, that particular factor, is identical to what is happening in california. so given that most of that is beyond your control i hope that you will take action where you're able to by reducing the impact of these new regulations on local san francisco businesses, by mitigating the gross receipts tax. as may have been mentioned earlier the proposed taxes are 5% to 50% higher than those

leveled against other businesses and we're just proposing a little consideration there. also we have seen higher taxes force patients and consumers back into the unregulated market which may raise public safety concerns with untested product and reduces your overall tax revenue. so i close by echoing the recommendations of pie colleagues and i'll leave information for your reference. reducing the cap to 4%. and encouraging the state to lower both the excise and the cultivation tax. and doing something about the unregulated operations. >> chair cohen: thank you. next speaker. yes. next speaker. >> hi. i am a resident of bayviewpoint. and i'm here with... (indiscernible) i really want

appreciate if you give us a time to meet with you. i have been at hunter's point for a very long time and i now have a clot in my left atrium and i have had a heart transplant and i'm waiting on a kidney. and i do believe that it all came from living up there for 50 years. that's all i wanted to say, thank you. >> chair cohen: thank you. all right, public comment is closed. thank you. so, coa colleagues, i'd like to table item 15 and approve item 16 and move that with a positive recommendation and send this to committee and cent i send it asa committee report. supervisor stefani? indicated yes for the record. and if you have any clarification on anything let us know so that we can get to the information that you need as

well as a timeline and answer whatever questions that may persist about the proposed tax measure. and we will take that without objection. thank you. all right. madam clerk, any other business before us. >> clerk: no other business. >> chair cohen: okay. thank you, we're adjourned.

>> when i open up the paper every day, i'm just amazed at how many different environmental issues keep popping up. when i think about what planet i want to leave for my children and other generations, i think about what kind of contribution i can make on a personal level to the environment. >> it was really easy to sign up for the program. i just went online to cleanpowersf.org, i signed up and then started getting pieces in the mail letting me know i was going switch over and poof it happened. now when i want to pay my bill, i go to pg&e and i don't see any difference in paying now. if you're a family on the budget, if you sign up for the regular green program, it's not going to change your bill at

all. you can sign up online or call. you'll have the peace of mind knowing you're doing your part in your household to help the environment. . >> neighborhood in san francisco are also diverse and fascist as the people that inhabitable them we're in north beach about supervisor peskin will give us a tour and introduce is to what think of i i his favorite district 5 e 3 is in the northwest surrounded by the san francisco bay the district is the boosting chinatown oar embarcadero financial district fisherman's wharf exhibit no. north beach telegraph hill and part of union square. >> all of san francisco

districts are remarkable i'm honored and delighted to represent really whereas with an the most intact district got chinatown, north beach fisherman's wharf russian hill and knob hill and the northwest waterfront some of the most wealthier and inning e impoverished people in san francisco obgyn siding it is ethically exists a bunch of tight-knit neighborhoods people know he each other by name a wonderful placed physically and socially to be all of the neighborhoods north beach and chinatown the i try to be out in the community as much as and i think, being a the cafe eating at the neighborhood lunch place people come up and talk to you, you never have time alone but really it is fun

hi, i'm one the owners and is ceo of cafe trespassing in north beach many people refer to cafe trees as a the living room of north beach most of the clients are local and living up the hill come and meet with each other just the way the united states been since 1956 opposed by the grandfather a big people person people had people coming since the day we opened. >> it is of is first place on the west that that exposito 6 years ago but anyone was doing that starbuck's exists and it created a really welcoming pot. it is truly a legacy business but more importantly it really at the take care of their community my father from it was formally

italy a fisherman and that town very rich in culture and music was a big part of it guitars and sank and combart in the evening that tradition they brought this to the cafe so many characters around here everything has incredible stories by famous folks last week the cafe that paul carr tennessee take care from the jefferson starship hung out the cafe are the famous poet lawrence william getty and jack herb man go hung out. >> they work worked at a play with the god fathers and photos he had his typewriter i wish i were here back there it there's a lot of moving parts the meeting spot rich in culture and artists and musicians epic people would talk with you

and you'd get. >> my name is angela wilson and i'm an owner of the market i worked at a butcher for about 10 years and became a butcher you i was a restaurant cook started in sxos and went to uc; isn't that so and opened a cafe we have produce from small farms without small butcher shops hard for small farms to survive we have a

been a butcher shop since 1901 in the heights floor and the case are about from 1955 and it is only been a butcher shot not a lot of businesses if san francisco that have only been one thing. >> i'm all for vegetarians if you eat meat eat meat for quality and if we care of we're in a losing battle we need to support butcher shops eat less we sell the chickens with the head and feet open somebody has to make money when you pay $25 for a chicken i guarantee if you go to save way half of the chicken goes in the enlarge but we started affordable housing depends on it occurred to us this is a male field people said

good job even for a girl the interesting thing it is a women's field in most of world just here in united states it is that pay a man's job i'm an encountered woman and raise a son and teach i am who respect woman i consider all women's who work here to be impoverished and strong in san francisco labor is high our cost of good ideas we seal the best good ideas the profit margin that low but everything that is a laboring and that's a challenge in the town so many people chasing money and not i can guarantee everybody this is their passion. >> i'm the - i've been cooking mile whole life this is a really, really strong presence

of women heading up kitchens in the bay area it is really why i moved out here i think that we are really strong in the destroy and really off the pages kind of thing i feel like women befrp helps us to get back up i'm definitely the only female here i fell in love i love setting up and love knowing were any food comes from i do the lamb and that's how i got here today something special to have a female here a male dominated field so i think that it is very special to have women and

especially like it is going at it you know i'm a tiny girl but makes me feel good for sure. >> the sad thing the building is sold i'm renegotiating my lease the neighborhood wants us to be here with that said, this is a very difficult business it is a constant struggle to maintain freshness and deal with what we have to everyday it is a very high labor of business but something i'm proud of if you want to get a job at affordable housing done nasal you need a good attitude and the jobs on the bottom you take care of all the produce and the fish and computer ferry terminal and work your way up employing people with a passion for this

and empowering them to learn >> when i open up the paper every day i'm just amazed at how many different environmental issues keep popping up. when i think about the planet i want to leave for my children and other generation, i think of what contribution i can make on a personal level to the environment. ♪ clean power sf is san francisco's key way of fighting climate change by renewable energy and offering it to san francisco customers. i'm from the san francisco public utilities commission.

the program came about with state wide legislation in 2002 to enable people to take more control over supplies. i first heard of the program when the organization was advocating to launch clean power sf. what i'm most excited about, it's going to bring 100% renewable energy to my home and reinvest into renewable energy infrastructure and jobs. i had gone to a lot of street fairs and heard from the staff at the san francisco public utilities commission to sign up for clean power sf even before it launched. >> we learned about clean power sf because our sustainability team is always looking for clean operations. linkedin is the largest online

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to go and more convenient in san francisco. >> clean power sf requires two products, green, 40% renewable and competitively priced with pg and e. for those who want to fight climate change more, 100% renewable at $0.02 per kilawatt. >> i decided to go with the super greens, after finding it only to cost about $5 more a month to have super green, that's a no-brainer, i can do that. >> we were pleased that clean power sf offers the super green 100% for commercial entities like ours and residents for the city of san francisco. we were pleased with the package

of services for linkedin and now encouraging our employees who have a residence in san francisco to sign on as well. >> clean power sf buys its power from renewable plants that feed the energy directly into the grid. >> there's a commitment to sustainability throughout the entire organization and this clean power opportunity reflects that. >> one of the wind farms we use is the shilo wind farm and that is large enough to be able to provide energy for up to 200,000 homes. >> our mission is sustainability, even though our bikes are minimal energy use, it still matters where the energy comes from and part of our mission in sustainability is how we run everything -- run our business. having the lights come on with clean energy is very important. >> the sunset reservoir has

solar panels that take up about four city blocks covering the reservoir and the solar power generates energy for city resources and clean power sf for residents participating in the program. >> it was easy to sign up for the program, i went online to cleanpowersf.org and i started getting pieces in the mail letting me know i was going to be switched over and it just happened. when i pay my bill, i still go to pg and e and i don't see any difference between now and a year ago. >> sign up online, just have your account number ready and it takes about two minutes and there's nothing to install. no lines are getting connected to your home. all the power goes through the existed power grid. >> we haven't had any problems with the switch over to clean

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>> hi. welcome to san francisco. stay safe and exploring how you can stay in your home safely after an earthquake. let's look at common earthquake myths. >> we are here at the urban center on mission street in san francisco. we have 3 guest today. we have david constructional engineer and bill harvey. i want to talk about urban myths. what do you think about earthquakes, can you tell if they are coming in advance? >> he's sleeping during those earthquakes? >> have you noticed him take any special? >> no. he sleeps right through them. there is no truth that i'm aware of with harvey that dogs are aware of an impending

earthquake. >> you hear the myth all the time. suppose the dog helps you get up, is it going to help you do something >> i hear they are aware of small vibrations. but yes, i read extensively that dogs cannot realize earthquakes. >> today is a spectacular day in san francisco and sometimes people would say this is earthquake weather. is this earthquake weather? >> no. not that i have heard of. no such thing. >> there is no such thing. >> we are talking about the weather in a daily or weekly cycle. there is no relationship. i have heard it's hot or cold weather or rain. i'm not sure which is the myth.

>> how about time of day? >> yes. it happens when it's least convenient. when it happens people say we were lucky and when they don't. it's terrible timing. it's never a good time for an earthquake. >> but we are going to have one. >> how about the ground swallowing people into the ground? >> like the earth that collapsed? it's not like the tv shows. >> the earth does move and it bumps up and you get a ground fracture but it's not something that opens up and sucks you up into haddes.

>> it's not going anywhere. we are going to have a lot of damage, but this myth that california is going to the ocean is not real. >> southern california is moving north. it's coming up from the south to the north. >> you would have to invest the million year cycle, not weeks or years. maybe millions of years from now, part of los angeles will be in the bay area. >> for better or worse. >> yes. >> this is a tough question. >> those other ones weren't tough. >> this is a really easy challenge. are the smaller ones less stress? >> yes. the amount released in small earthquakes is that they

are so small in you need many of those. >> i think would you probably have to have maybe hundreds of magnitude earthquakes of 4.7. >> so small earthquakes are not making our lives better in the future? >> not anyway that you can count on. >> i have heard that buildings in san francisco are on rollers and isolated? >> it's not true. it's a conventional foundation like almost all the circumstances buildings in san francisco. >> the trans-america was built way before. it's a pretty conventional foundation design. >> i have heard about this thing called the triangle of

life and up you are supposed to go to the edge of your bed to save yourself. is there anything of value to that ? >> yes, if you are in your room. you should drop, cover and hold onto something. if you are in school, same thing, kitchen same thing. if you happen to be in your bed, and you rollover your bed, it's not a bad place to be. >> the reality is when we have a major earthquake the ground shaking so pronounced that you are not going to be able to get up and go anywhere. you are pretty much staying where you are when that earthquake hits. you are not going to be able to stand up and run with gravity. >> you want to get under the door frame but you are not moving to great distances. >> where can i buy a richter

scale? >> mr. richter is selling it. we are going to put a plug in for cold hardware. they are not available. it's a rather complex. >> in fact we don't even use the richter scale anymore. we use a moment magnitude. the richter scale was early technology. >> probably a myth that i hear most often is my building is just fine in the loma prieta earthquake so everything is fine. is that true ? >> loma prieta was different. the ground acceleration here was quite moderate and the duration was moderate. so anyone that believes they survived a big earthquake and their building has been tested

is sadly mistaken. >> we are planning for the bigger earthquake closer to san francisco and a fault totally independent. >> much stronger than the loma prieta earthquake. >> so people who were here in '89 they should say 3 times as strong and twice as long and that will give them more of an occasion of the earthquake we would have. 10 percent isn't really the threshold of damage. when you triple it you cross that line. it's much more damage in earthquake. >> i want to thank you, harvey, thanks pat for

good afternoon, everyone. welcome to our land use committee meeting of monday, july 23 -- sorry, this microphone is crazy here. i'm katy tang, chair of this committee. today i'm joined by vice chair, jane kim, and catherine stephanie joining o