applied to the ambulance deployment facility project. for example, easy to read shapes, but have enough detail to draw in engaged viewers, and bold, graphic forms that are whimsical but graphic enough to engage all ages. it's a sequential narrative, and they're an assemblage of vignettes to suggest a story, which is what will be happening with the ambulance deployment facility, as well. and perhaps most importantly, it seeks to deliver a positive message. it's designed to be entertaining, up lifting, inspiring and inviting. one of the things of working on a project like this is the artwork's ability to cast shadows. these will reach onto the sidewalk, vying with passerbys

for attention. you'll see that this steel -- this one-eighth inch steel is the same material that we'll be deploying to the ambulance deployment facility project. so to show you -- to get into that now. this overview shows you the two proposed art installations. on the right, you see the entry at jerrold avenue, and this is the gait through which vehicles and pedestrians enter the facility. the second location for the artwork is the mckinnon avenue gate, which is the far left, and that's where the ambulances exit the facility. these act as the identifying

markers for this essential civic facility, and they serve to enhance the ambulance driver's duty of entering and exiting the site several times a day. this is the pedestrian entrance gate. this artworks imagery speaks to the history and visual vernacular of the san francisco fire department and the emergency medical services. the pedestrian gate here focuses on firefighter, while you'll see that, in my next slide, the vehicular gate focuses more on e.m.s. there are two kinds of steel being used. there's brushed stainless steel, which is silver in color, which

is shown as gray, and painted black steel on top of that, which is shown in black. so basically, we have a two -- we have a layered -- a layered composition happening. together, they create imagery that represent images, insignia and emblems that generate response and imagery as well as san francisco neighborhood landmarks. okay. this is the vehicular entrance art. the two panels on either side are stationary, while the gait in the middle with the 4 and the 9, signifying station 49 are the gated that actually open for the vehicles. the gate aims to put forward the

mission of the fire department. [inaudible] >> -- personal deep seated sense of pride in their work as well as their teams, history, and the community they serve. if you look closely, you'll see recognizable landmarks such as sutro tower, palace of fine arts, golden gate bridge, and historic victorian townhomes dotting the hills. a quick visualization of what this will look like in real life. this is what the site looks at the present time. here is the a.d.f. when it's -- materializes. and pretty much the last thing

to be installed will be the gate itself, and this is roughly what that will look like. and here, we have the various elements labelled, so you see station 49 in the background. there's a left gate, pedestrian gait at the mckinnon entrance. there's only one gate that will be decorated, and that's the vehicular exit gate. i believe that's it for my overview. if anyone has any questions, please feel free to ask. >> president cleaveland: thank you very much. >> i just want to mention that michael is a local san francisco artist, and also, that our architect team is also local san

francisco, and i want to just thank them for all their work and thank the chiefs for all their assistance throughout the project for so many years. they've been great to work with, and happy to answer any questions. >> president cleaveland: thank you. chief rivera, did you have anything you want to add? >> i did. i forgot to mention chief zanof and his team, who's been working with us from day one, also an integral part of this a.d.f. team. >> president cleaveland: thank you, is there any public comment on this presentation? seeing none, public comment is closed. commissioner covington? >> commissioner covington: thank you very much, mr. president. thank you, chief rivera for your presentation, and thank you, miss o'day. it's a lot of work that's been done, which is very good. it's wonderful to see everything coming along so well.

i appreciated being able to not have to visualize a verbal -- a description of the various offices and other locations on this site. my only questions right now regard the artwork, so if the artist can come up, i think that would be good. and i don't know if you can bring up this particular conn t schematic, the one that is the jerrold avenue pedestrian entrance. i appreciated the icons of the various parts of the city being showned. i just had -- shown.

i just had a couple of questions. some of this will be brushed stainless steel, some of the icons. i'm wondering in the lower left-hand corner, the crown, what is that in reference to? >> so i'm borrowing from infantry and coats of arms. they're supposed to represent courage and commitment and pride, all of which are expressed in coats of arms. because this is playing off of the iconography of the fire department and e.m.s. and various agencies that have to do this work, so it's a creative extension. >> commissioner covington: okay. so i see the coat of arms because i was wondering what the

image was -- can you go back to that? thank you. the one that's top left, so that is the echo of the court of armor? >> yes it is, and it's showing protection. >> commissioner covington: okay. so now, i understand. so this representation of the eagle at the bottom is -- >> if i may interrupt, that won't be the final eagle, and i know exactly what you are thinking. >> commissioner covington: what am i thinking? >> that it perhaps looks a bit militaryistic. >> we all know which one you're referring to. >> commissioner covington: i thought oh, when they present, maybe that particular image won't be there anymore, so

that's a problem. >> absolutely. this work is in progress, and we're still getting feedback. this is not the final artwork, but that will certainly be resolved. the eagle was placed in there because i -- the eagle, first of all, shows up on the fire department's official emblem. >> commissioner covington: well, we have a phoenix, and this is our emblem, and the wings go up, as opposed to straight across, which is a throw back to another time that we would never like to see come again. >> absolutely. absolutely. i'll make that correction. that was meant to be a bullald eagle, which represents the united states of america, but i will correct that. >> commissioner covington: okay. the circles above, is that razor

wire? >> yes it is. >> commissioner covington: oh, okay. is there another artistic deterrent that you can use? >> i'll have to let the artist address that. >> that was outside our scope, commissioner. >> commissioner covington: okay. well, who's chief of razor wire? who's in charge of making the decision about the razor wire? who might that be? >> so basically, the razor wire is to deter people climbing off the fence, but we have not determined whether we could use those arced metal fences. the razor wire -- we're continuing to work with this artist. artist is on board as of july, and i just want to note, the eagle, we have asked him to

change. we asked him that because we realize the perception. and as far as the razor wires, that is currently how we're showing it to defend the site, but we are also open to look at other alternatives that will keep people from climbing over the fence. >> commissioner covington: most certainly. >> it's not as friendly, that's for sure. >> commissioner covington: absolutely and for a new facility that's 50-plus million to build. >> it's effective in what's effective and not effective. because people put cushions on some of those arches, but i want to introduce susan pontius from the art commission, so you know who's standing here. >> commissioner covington: yeah. i think i saw her walk in. >> we'll continue to work

closely with the artists, and we also agree that razor wire is not friendly. we just want to make sure that we put up a defense so that people aren't climbing into the site at night. >> commissioner covington: you'll get no argument from me on that, for sure. i want us to keep in mind that you know this is not out in the country, this is in a neighborhood, and, you know, you have your nice home, and you have -- you know, your planting and front and everything, and then, you have this large facility with razor wire across the street. that's not being a good neighbor on our part. that's what i'm saying, that's not being a good neighbor on our part, so i'm glad you will be looking at that again. >> yes, indeed. >> commissioner covington: okay. i love seeing the 49 displayed prominently, even though we're still calling it

euphemistically, the ambulance deployment center. it is station 49 to those of us who love station 49, so thank you for your presentation. >> thank you. >> president cleaveland: thank you, commissioner covington. commissioner remembveronese? >> commissioner veronese: thank you for your explanation of the rai razor wire. i would love a sculptural solution would be good for that. >> commissioner covington: i think a sculptural solution would be wonderful. >> is that a conconclusion? >> commissioner covington: a conconclusion from me, and you can go onto another commissioner for now. >> president cleaveland: commissioner veronese? >> commissioner veronese: these are just my comments, along with commissioner covington's

concern, i'm a bit concerned with the symbolology of the eagle which to me looks similar to -- and i'm just going to say it, the reich sadler, which is a symbol used in nazi symbology. there's also the runich insignia, which is also used in nazi times, which is the double lightning strikes, and to have those both in the same fence to me should probably be changed. >> yeah. so just to reiterate, this is the artist's proposal when he was in competition with five other artists. he had a different interpretation of the bald eagle, and we immediately, when he was selected, that was one of

the things we already told him to change. i'm sorry when we came to this presentation, we didn't block that out with something else. i'm sorry, we didn't even think to do that. and i'm sorry, i didn't understand the other symbols. >> the ss bolts which are iconic of the nazi era, you have those above the latter. if you do a little research. >> commissioner, again, as director of the public, our program, let me assure you that the design -- actually final design will need to come back to my commission for approval before we start fabrication. we will definitely take these items under consideration. i know the artist is very willing to modify his designs to meet your concerns, so i can guarantee you that will happen. >> commissioner veronese: okay. the third concern i have is -- while i love the fact that it

says station r9 there, if you actually look at where this fence is going to be, it's going to be right alongside station 9 because it's on the gerald side. it's a little confusing to have station 9 here, and then right next door to station 9, you've got station 49 being celebrated in the fence. maybe we could put the 49 -- i don't mean to redesign it. i hate when commissioners do this type of stuff, but i just want to be a little bit considerate at the men and women from station 9 because we already seem to be taking from their parking and some of the other free space that they had in the back of their station, that we would have a 49 there right next to the 9 just, to me, sounds a little bit strange. and then, the question i had

with regards to the space that we're taking from station 9, that they were using some of that back space for parking. are we taking parking space away from station 9 or are we making sure that the ladies and gentlemen of station 9 had the parking that they had before. >> we are making -- we have a new parking lot right behind station 9 with ten spots? and there's also room for when they do their shift change? because there's also up to 20 cars during a shift change. and also during construction, our contractors are making sure at all times there are at least ten spaces and an accessible, safe walking path from their temporary space on-site during construction, and that site will move the temporary parking lot for station 9 will move through construction if the contractors

need to get into one area or another. >> commissioner veronese: so they'll have parking during construction and once it's completed, as well. >> on-site, and we're working very closely with captain mcfarland on that, and station 9, and chief zanof and chief malloy have been working with us throughout the entire project to make sure this moves as smoothly as possible. >> i know that station 9 was using that area to dry their coats after they washed them. is there an area that they're going to have to do that, as well? >> so that is correct. i just want to mechanics that we've been very sensitive to the needs of station 9 to ensure that any response is not hampered by any of this construction that's going on. so we've had meetings with the captain of station 9 to keep them in the loop to ensure that they're aware of all of the different stage of construction.

one of the things we did address was the drying of turn outs, which has been move today another site. >> commissioner veronese: so there will be a spot for the drying of turn outs? >> yes. >> commissioner veronese: and then, there were a couple of historic rigs, and they're no longer in that back lot? >> that's correct. actually, we moved all of the historic rigs to the division of training, which is outside on treasure island, and i believe we have approximately four convertible restored antique rigs inside a building at 260 treasure island. so all of the rigs have been moved out, completely cleared out of that area. >> commissioner veronese: okay. thank you. >> president cleaveland: thank you, commissioner veronese. chief hayes-white? >> commissioner hayes-white: thank you. i just wanted to express my

thanks to everyone. i think we are a good client, but at times probably from their perspective, a demanding client because we've asked over and over for redo's or we're definitely, through chief rivera and chief zanoff, on it, and it's great from both commissioners that we've heard from, but you've been responsive to our requests and needs. also, the artist has been very diligent in responding to our feedback. i also do think there could be other solutions to the fencing or security. security is a number one concern for that. we're fortunate that there are no adjacent residential properties that are on that block that i'm aware of. it's an industrial area. it doesn't necessarily mean it needs to have chicken wire or security fence like that, but it

is something that we're sensitive, too, but also, i know the architect is here today, so thank you. >> president cleaveland: thank you, chief. i appreciate your presentation very much. i have a couple of questions. i think the idea of having a phoenix, san francisco raising from the ashes is a good idea, so having a bird -- the phoenix on the fence would be a good idea in my personal opinion. i had a question on the bidding process. was the bid done with the piling going down 135 feet? >> yes. >> president cleaveland: okay. and is there any penalties for not completing the project on time or any bonus for completing the project ahead of schedule? >> no. i mean, extra bonus to the contractor? >> president cleaveland: right, if they complete the project sooner than expected. >> no bonus other than, you know, they basically would make more money themselves because they wouldn't be out at the job

so long. >> president cleaveland: and there's no annalipenalty if the over? >> oh, penalty? yes, liquidated damages. >> president cleaveland: okay. thank you. excuse me. vice president nakajo had a question or a comment? >> commissioner nakajo: mainly a comment. thank you very much, miss o'day, chief rivera. i appreciate that everyone is here, all of the renditions that are here. by the questions and the commen comments, you can tell this commission is engaged. for myself, in terms of being on the commission, the art commission and the fire department, this is one of those occasions we have a departmental relationship. we have that with other departments, as well.

in my recollection, the art commission is something that is a welcoming relationship. but for me, who was a former art commissioner, it's a new relationship, as well. the other thing is that i think you got the feel of it, this station 49 is a dream. in terms of the chief who's been here and working on this you're chief hayes-white to us, and all of the ambulance, chief zanoff and 1usuch, this dream has been long and coming. we've gone through a lot of cultural adjustments, and to have renditions at this point is very, very exciting. i think the commission is engaged, so i'm just looking forward to the sequence of

relationships that we'll have, and i'm very pleased that we're going to have a check off level on the commission, as well, as we move forward, so i just wanted to comment on that. thank you so much for all of your engagements this mornings. >> president cleaveland: thank you, mr. vice president. commissioner hardeman? >> commissioner hardeman: thank you, mr. president, and thank you, chief rivera and miss o'day and the public works arts commission and to michael bartolis, and the art project. the nice thing about this is the set aside of dollars for art will be actually visible to people that have been displaced from station 49 and 9 for the construction, and the patience that they've shown at station 49 in particular over the years for a very rundown facility. and most of all, to the

taxpayers of san francisco that love their fire department and have shown it, and will have a better-run ambulance system in san francisco because of this, and their brill in voting to support the fire department, like they usually do. so thank you, and this is a fun time, so thank you. >> president cleaveland: thank you for your presentation, and we look forward to the ground breaking on the 28. thank you. madam secretary, call the next item. >> item six, review, the department of human resources timeline and plan for department and recruit candidates of chief for department. discussion and possible action to authorize d.h.r. to authorize the process or to take other action regarding the

recruitment. >> president cleaveland: is there any public comment on this item? seeing none, public comment is closed. welcome. >> thank you, president cleaveland. good morning, commissioners, vice president nakajo, chief hayes-white. mickey callahan, i'm the city's department of human resources director. i'm here with scott wolf who will assist me in facilitating the selection process. our goal is to ensure that the commission has a group of well qualified candidates from whom to select either up to three candidates to send to the mayor for consideration and appointment in light of the announced retirement of chief hayes-white. we have prepared, and i believe you have in your packets, a date and recommended hiring steps, so

i'd like to maybe run through the highlights of that for you and talk a little bit about what we will be doing and how we will be supporting the commission, if that's helpful. >> president cleaveland: we do. please proceed. >> we have prepared a -- first, i will note that the charter provides that the obligation of the require commission is to -- fire commission is to under the charter submit at least three qualified applicants. this is the standard that exists for most of the department head selection processes in the city. there are a few that are different, but should the mayor decide that none of the candidates that the commission has sent are acceptable, the mayor may send it back, and of course, the commission would meet again and determine whether they wanted to expand the process or send three different candidates who had already gone through the process. so if any of those things happens, it will, in fact, delay. additionally -- i don't expect this to happen, but if it should

come about that the commission did not feel there were a sufficient number of qualified candidate, we might repost, we could consider hiring a recruiter, etc. i know there is a strong belief, i know the mayor shares this, that there is good local talent, and the familiarity of the region and the challenges we face is going to be a positive for who ultimately becomes the fire chief. with that in mind, we have prepared a draft brochure, and i hope that you've had an opportunity to review it. it is drawn from a number of sources, including the last time we publicly posted a recruitment which is 2001. my team also reviewed other fire chief announcements from other agencies, and other department announcements that we have done here in san francisco to prepare this one. i will note that there's a list of characteristics under the ideal candidate, challenges that

they may face, and we ask them to complete a supplemental questionnaire, and we ask them questions about how they would be able to meet the characteristics of the ideal candidate, which are listed in the brochure. as soon as the brochure is approved, we would move to post that brochure, including the supplemental questionnaire, and mr. de-wolf would be collecting that and begin the review as soon as the applications come in to determine which have the minimum qualifications. we have planned on a three-week period for posting. people would certainly be able to apply electronically. we will be able to -- will be

working with the commission staff to print some glossy versions of the brochure, but these days, everybody does this sort of thing on-line, so our prime year approach will be to move on-line. we will post the announcement on the d.h.r. website. the commission can have a link on its website, or the fire department can, and also, the fire department will issue a general order advising people of it. we will do some reach out to various associations, for example, the fire association, and regional bodies, and certainly, the commission members are encouraged to forward the announcement to individuals who may want to apply or who may know people who should apply. we have -- if the commission approves the hiring brochure in this hiring process today, including a delegation of the authority to approve the supplemental questionnaire to

president cleaveland, we expect to post-it within the next day or so and start the three-week filing period. many people wait until the day before the period close to see apply for jobs. that may well happen. we will be holding the information about the applicants in the strict confidentiality because we don't want to disadvantage any individual who may ultimately not be successful and be considered as a lame duck in their own current position. so that's a very important element, and i know that the commission is aware of that. we will -- in the period after it closes to december 13, we will be sorting, identifying which meet the minimum qualifications and sorting them as what i think of good, better, best. it's only our judgment, and the commission, when we bring them to the commission, which would be in a closed session on the 19, then, we would anticipate

the commission making a decision as to how many individuals you would like to interview. do you want to interview everybody in the best group, downtown to move some people into that group from any of the other qualified candidates? that is entirely up to the commission. we will -- it's our job simply to facilitate that, and so we will be there to answer questions in your closed session. after that, we will be scheduling those whom you'd like to interview. we'd be scheduling those in the second week of january , and the thinking is those would be identified at the close of the period of two days, and the commission would then deliberate and determine whose names you would like to send to the mayor. in terms of vetting the candidates, once we find out whom you would like to

interview, we're not going to do reference checks on people who you are not interesting in interviewing, obviously, so once you tell us who you'd like to interview, we're going to do some work on background of the individuals to ensure that you have the full information you would need to know. and then, ultimately, those candidates would be moved forward to the mayor. we recommend that you have the interviews at our location, department of human resources, in order to enhance the confidentiality of the process for those candidates, particularly who may be known locally as opposed to the fire department headquarters, and we have done this for a number of department head fire processes. it involves a few secretary processes.

so with that, i am happy to answer any questions about the brochure, the process. >> president cleaveland: thank you. do we have any questions? commissioner hardeman, i see one. >> >> commissioner hardeman: thank you, thank you for the presentation. it answered a lot of my questions, except i do have one. mayor's communication to the commission prior to us submitting three names. there's a history in san francisco of the mayor's choice not being very contested by a commission. so just curiosity, any recommendations we have talking to 798 or mayors -- are we

allowed to communicate with whoever we choose? in that case, there would be a lot of names on the list that will be -- you know, somebody comes up, wants to discuss somebody they think is the best candidate, then, we -- and we're supposed to be keeping the list maybe confidential, just -- how do you want us to deal with that? >> thank you for the question, commissioner hardeman. just in your role, people play reach out to you in public comment, and they're free to share your views with you, what are their opinions of the perfect candidate, whether those would be the best people. i would not make any commitments to them, and i would not disclose whether those individuals have applied. i would simply receive that

information. the mayor, as you can imagine, is very interested in this project. she has seen the brochure and these qualifications, and characteristics of an ideal candidate, she's very comfortable with. i think if the mayor becomes very sure that there's a particular individual she would like to see forward, i would expect that she would notify president cleaveland of that, and she would share that information. but my request, again, because there are many individuals, only one person will be ultimately selected chief, and so we want to are fair to those who may not be successful. and so i'm going to ask that you not disclose who -- who's in the binders or who you're going to be interviewing when they reach out to you. is that acceptable?

>> commissioner hardeman: okay. >> president cleaveland: thank you, commissioner hardeman. commissioner covington? >> commissioner covington: thank you miss callahan. it's good to see you. >> thank you. >> commissioner covington: i had just a few questions and comments. i think the brochure looks really, really good, and i like the way it's laid out, and i think it's very clear. i would like to add, if it's permissible, under the minimum qualifications, it says ten years work experience as a uniformed member of a fire department at the sworn rank of captain or higher. and then, someplace else that you should have been batallion chief. >> there is -- well, the minimum is the -- what it takes to get

qualified. in the desirable, we say batallion chief. it leaves the door open. you could be qualified but not have the desirable characteristics. we would be looking -- the desirable characteristics would elevate an individual in our presentation to you likely, but it doesn't exclude somebody who may not have been a about tallian chief. >> commissioner covington: certainly. well, i was alluding to something i wanted to add, and you can make those distinctions, and you can decide where to add it if it's appropriate. there isn't any mention on the minimum qualifications of having surpris surprise -- supervised the medical end of the fire department. i don't see that mentioned

anywhere under the qualifications. >> we can certainly make that as an addition, although i don't know whether everyone whom you would consider to be qualified has specifically supervised. i guess in a medical house there is that medical over sight when you're a first responder. are you referring to supervision of an ambulance like at station 49. >> commissioner covington: no, not at that level, at a higher level. it would be really helpful for someone to come in with the nomenclature and vocabulary of how to interact with the people who are on the medical side. >> well, we do have -- i think there's an assumption, and we can clarify it, that everybody who has been a captain or higher has had the appropriate interactions with the medical. we do have that in the ideal

candidate that we talk about medical. if you would like a more explicit reference in the minimum qualifications or the desirable, we can do that. >> commissioner covington: i think that would be great if you could, because i did see the ideal candidate, and i saw the paramedic and transport services is listed at number three. but i would like to have the medical side highlights as much as possible to give that, you know, a robust presence in the qualifications that are needed. >> okay. if i can just clarify, reference within the desirable or do you want it in the minimum? >> commissioner covington: no, as i said at the beginning, i will leave that up to you, but i just want it to be -- want it to have more emphasis. >> okay.

we will note that as an addition. >> commissioner covington: okay. thank you. and let's see...how to apply. that section, at the bottom, under the selection process, talks about the management test battery, the m.t.b. can you tell us if this has been taken by a previous chief in the department or is this the first time that a candidate would be taking this test. >> i believe it would be the first time because you have had your chief for a very long time. the management test battery was adopted in the city i would say around the year 2009 or 2010. it is our practice to administer it on an informational basis or to offer it on an informational basis when we're going to processes at a high level or deputy directors or department heads. just a little bit of background on it. sometimes we find that the best technical person is not the best supervisor or manager.

for example, the best engineer is not the chief of engineers, best department head of engineers, and there are skills that we assess for a supervisor or manager that we assess across leadership positions. it's what we require for all silvservice kwms for managers in approximate the city. if there is a posted position, we provide it sort of informationally to the hiring authority. so it's our intention. we do recommend it. i know the mayor has been interested in ensuring that people have the appropriate manageme management skills for this position. our prior director of selection -- recruitment and selection for the city, mr. krauss, had run all the recruitments for the city of new

jersey. we did the work to validate it for san francisco. in fact sometimes we lease it to san mateo county, but it's been a very valuable tool for ensuring not just the technical skills and knowledge, but sometimes people's heard it under the soft skills, but the ability to prioritize those management skills are also assessed, so it's our intention to provide you with that information on the candidates whom you will be interviewing. >> commissioner covington: thank you. thank you for the background on that. i just wanted to know how -- you know, how long the city has employed this as one of the things to be ranked. also under desirable qualifications, previous management is listed.

that's curious to me. >> undesirable -- >> commissioner covington: yes, desirable. >> oh, i think it's a broad description -- it's considered to be business related, but these are people who are involved in businesses that are dealing with facilities and budgets. if you'd like, we can strike that one. >> commissioner covington: i just wondered why it was there. i didn't know if it was there because there are a number of terms of art listed. >> so in deciding on related degrees, it's often -- i'm sorry. good morning, commissioners, as well. it's -- we try to look at it as broad a scope as we can for degree types, so these are things that i had researched, you know, universities and colleges around the country that had these sorts of degrees and they range everything else from

finance to hospitality which would be sort of the whole breadth, with the center focus on sort of that -- sort of your typical m.b.a. or something like that. so it's within that scope. in light of expanding it more, we definitely would be willing to take suggestions on other degrees you could think of we could put in there. >> commissioner covington: all right. this -- thank you. this says a master's degree in fire science is listed. since you did the research, about how many colleges do have a master's degree in fire science available? >> to my knowledge, the fire science degree is fairly limited in scope, but it is out there. >> commissioner covington: at the master's level. >> at the master's level, it would be more something in, like, fire protection, engineering-type things, so again, we're trying to look at the whole universe of someone who was in the fire service,

so -- >> commissioner covington: all right. thank you. miss callahan, i'm wondering if you think there might be value in adding the organizational chart for the department as part of your on-line posting? so that people have a much better idea of all of the different branchs? you know, we've got an airport division and all of these different divisions that other departments may not have. i think it might be helpful to candidates. >> that's a great suggestion. my designer is going to be angry with me if he has to fit it on there. >> commissioner covington: no, i did san on-line. i said on-line. >> okay. i think what we'll do is have a link, and we'll get it from the fire department, so that would be a great suggestion in helping to visualize what the role would

entail. >> commissioner covington: thank you, and i think you're right. we have a deep bench in the department. it will just be a reminder for those members of the department. i would like to see an opportunity for the rank and file of the department to come and talk to the commissioners about what they would like to see in the next chief of the department, not names of potential candidates, but the kind of person that they would like to see. we're on such an accelerated schedule, i'm wondering if you have any suggestions as to how to go about that. i think we would really miss an opportunity to hear from the members of the department about what they would like. >> yes. i think one suggestion would be that when you have a sexupecial

meeting, you always start in open session, and there's the vote, as you know, to go into closed session. i think it's certainly possible to calendar some public comment on that, to accept public comment at the special meeting prior to going into closed session. that might be a good way of doing it. >> commissioner covington: okay. great. well. thank you very much. this is exciting. >> you're welcome. thank you for your excellent suggestions. >> president cleaveland: thank you. thank you, commissioner covington. commissioner veronese? >> commissioner veronese: i had some questions for the chief around some minimum questions that you could answer offline because it's going to require a little bit of research, but i'm wondering of the people in the department that you pull up to batallion chief or above level

or rather captain or above level, i'm wondering how long is typical for someone to stay in that position such that they would be in there for at least ten years? i guess my question is more simple. how deep is the list of people in the san francisco fire department that would qualify under the current list of qualifications? does this captain or higher restrict this to a shorter list because i may be hiring somebody from, you know, a lieutenant level up to the deputy or assistant chief level? i'm wondering maybe some information from the chief as to how deep -- without naming some specific names, how deep that minimum qualification pool would be within the san francisco fire department? >> we can certainly take a look at this, commissioner. i think just guesstimating,

there are a number of talented members in the fire department that have risen through the ranks quickly. for example, there are members in our department -- and i have served for nearly 15 years that i've hired and promoted to lieutenant, captain, and batallion chief all within 15 years. so to your point, there are some people that may not have had a full ten years at captain or hire that you would be excluding. i don't know if it's a huge number, but those are, i believe, three people. i believe one of them's in the audience today that has risen pretty quickly, but i can get those numbers for you to be exact. >> commissioner veronese: i just don't want to exclude those people just because they come up in the ranks quicker, we're shrewding them. that doesn't necessarily speak to their abilities to be the chief of this department, in my opinion. >> absolutely. great question. i will note there is a substitution, so if the person has a degree, if you look

immediately below that, then, they need eight years only. so there may be individuals that i think may be rapidly rising may have a degree, and then, they would be rapidly qualified under the substitution. and certainly, we would broaden it if you want to do that today. >> commissioner veronese: i just would like more information. are we voting on this item today? >> president cleaveland: we will be. >> commissioner hardeman: we will be. >> commissioner veronese: okay. i think that's all i have -- well, miss callahan, i do want to say something about you personally. i have worked with you in random ways since i was on the police commission more than a decade ago, and you have done some of the most hectic negotiations with the police department and i'm sure many of those since

that time, and so your will is absolutely extraordinary. the fact that you're still here, doing this, is a testament of your dedication to the city. >> president cleaveland: vice president nakajo. >> commissioner nakajo: thank you very much, mr. president. thank you very much, director callahan. may i have -- is it john? >> this is scott de-wolf. >> commissioner nakajo: thank you, scott. i feel we'll see a lot of you. i have some questions that i just wanted to get clear. it might be repetitious in some ways, director callahan, but in terms of this recruitment pamphlet, flier, is it called? this is what's on-line and this is what we're adopting today in

concept or close to it, right? >> correct. >> with -- with whatever amendments you make today. >> commissioner nakajo: with whatever amendments, and i want that duly noted with the commissioners because a lot of comments came out. you made some comments in terms of recruitment for this position, and there's been some discussion that our department has sub-stantiveness ak can'ts, and i conkwur with that quote, but departmentally -- [inaudible] >> commissioner nakajo: -- with requirements on of years? is that what i'm hearing? >> with this, i believe the recruitment itself would be went out in a general order to the

entire department. >> commissioner nakajo: okay. i guess that's what answers my question, is that a general order will go out so that all the members of the department see this, can peruse the requirements and such, and then, if they meet the minimum requirements, can apply, all right? and you answered my questions in some ways and it's reinforced that. the minimum requirements is a number of years and it's a captain rank. what was it again? >> it's ten years of captain or above. you can go to eight if you have a bachelor's degree. >> commissioner nakajo: okay. and just for my classification, did you make some reference that the mayor is sufficient with the regard that the recruitment will come intentionally rather than externally or nationally?

>> let me try to say this perfectly correctly, which is the mayor believes there is a lot of local talent, which includes the members of the san francisco fire department. it is an open recruitment. we'll be notifying the fire chief's organization, and there'll be national organizations. we may draw amazing candidates from across the city, but our focus is not going to florida or new york or anywhere else. if we were going to do that, with he would probably have hired a recruiter and start beating the bushes. we agree and the mayor concurred that there's a lot of talent in the region, and that a lot of qualified candidates will be interested in the position and apply. >> commissioner nakajo: okay. i just wanted to be clear that that doesn't say that a person nationally can't apply for this.

>> they certainly can, bay area, as well. >> commissioner nakajo: i notice on this, the back page has desirable qualifications. i'm glad that you went through the differentiation of that, because i had a hard time with that, trying to differentiate that, again, on the bottom -- on the main page, the minimum qualifications jumps out at you. you turn the page, and then, there's desirable qualifications. i think i heard you say, director callahan that there's some desirables that you were looking for. >> well, when people apply, they will not just fill a job application out, but they will answer questions, designed to elicit their experience in the items which will actually listed in the judgedial candidate. describe your experience in fire prevention and investigation,

and then the candidates will expound on that, so that's going to provide you more information on their kfgss in the various areas. >> and all of this is with a due date of december 13? >> i believe it's the 7th. >> commissioner nakajo: the due date is december 7? >> yes. >> commissioner nakajo: that's a pretty quick turnaround time. >> i believe they'll apply, and scott will start looking at them as soon as they come in. he's not going to look at them on the 8th. [please stand by].

>> strictly on the minimum qualification to see if they've met that requirement of the level of hire for ten years. >> commissioner nakajo: okay. so those who don't qualify, you'll eliminate them. those who qualify, you'll accept them, but you're going to put them in a categorical? could you describe the callical. >> based on the questions, and the answers they provided, we'll be putting them into the categories as director callahan mentioned, good, better, best. you'll see all the candidates that we'll screen through the minimum qualification. i just want to make that distinction. >> commissioner nakajo: okay. so say 300 200 -- 200

applicants, and we would see all 200? >> if a person says, not applicable on the supplement al questions, that person's not going to rise to the best group. you may disagree with our characterization, with our assessment. you may pull people up, i want this one in the pool, etc. >> commissioner nakajo: okay. again, i wanted clarification on that because i have no expectation that we'll be looking at 200 applications. but in that question of who's