did alternative sites. >> vice president swig: so you're telling me you like verizon to at&t. >> commissioner lazarus: buildings -- these do not go on buildings, they go on poles because it's a completely different facility. >> it's not required under article 25. >> commissioner honda: thank you. >> vice president swig: and one more short one, to follow up on commissioner honda's question -- i think it was commissioner honda. it's late, and my short-term memory is going to heck. it wouldn't be the first time that a third party vendor made a boo boo, and that we have had several occasions where there has been bad noticing. they just -- bad noticing. it's a mistake, but in my past experience at least, again, i'll

rely on the panel to support or deny my position, public works really was on the case and said no, we looked at the -- you know, we validated that this -- you know, the mailing list was done correctly, and so i'm finding a different story from any -- you are new to us, in front of us, but i'm finding a new story from this person and less reconciliation of what did or did not happen, which i'm finding a dangerous precedent or a dangerous direction because we really don't know if they made a boo boo or they made it right. so -- >> is that a question? >> vice president swig: yeah. >> can i have a question? >> vice president swig: yeah. so what happened to follow up? what happened to -- i mean, your predecessors, both who have tangled with us all with these types of questions, why -- why the change -- why the change in

position with the change in position, that you don't look after and follow up on was the mailing done correctly? >> well, so i will rebut your comment, i guess, or in partial answer to your question, i think, for one thing, for us to follow up, we would -- how do we do that? we're not -- we would have to go to every single homeowner. >> vice president swig: no, it's as simple as can you provide us a list of those you went to and you eyeballed that at least they were in the right citizensh zip code? >> so that, we do as a matter of practice. all of us do that in all of the mailings and look at the mailings, and make sure that they're in the radius area. i will say that an additional item that we mention in our brief on page six is that in this instance, we looked at the -- we looked at the mailing, and we felt that we agreed that

mobility should add the haight-ashbury neighborhood association, and so they did, which is -- let's see...in exhibit k. we added that -- we added the haight-ashbury neighborhood groups to the -- both sets of the mailings. >> vice president swig: thank you. >> to try to partially address that issue. >> vice president swig: thank you. >> president fung: did planning want to say anything? >> commissioner honda: we'd like to get our money's worth here. >> thank you. i will be quick. it's late. marselle boudreaux, planning department. so quickly, i'll just read our determination. the planning department determined that the proposed personal wireless facility would not significantly detract from

the irk ka of the adjacent residential district or potential or known historic buildings, and we approved this with conditions. i think there were a few points maybe i could just quickly reference. this facility is generally a facility that you have seen pretty frequently. it's the consistent design that the city approves on our city owned poles, so it is the most stream lined design that we have approved. it's what we have determined to be one of the more minimally visible root kind of pole top appendages that the city departments have come to an agreement on. they are a stream lined design. they are painted to match the pole. in addition to the antenna, there's also the equipment. so this particular site as was pointed out by the appellant in different photographs has a

different -- a type of equipment. they showed another carrier that had maybe two pieces of equipment on the pole. this particular carrier chooses to shroud theirs into one particular component. overall, we've seen that this particular equipment is about 1 inch larger than kind of the other carriers on average. so we feel that's pretty minimal as far as comparison, and as a perception, we feel that's deminimous. so overall, we feel the pole itself is pretty distinct from the residential feelings. it's close to 14 feet, 15 feet from the actual building itself. so if something is done about the six to 8 foot distance from

the building, residential windows, we do tart sto look at those dimensions. they are -- we do start to look at those dimensions. this far exceeding that distance, we determined that the equipment would not significantly detract. in addition, in looking at the actual plans, the placement of the equipment on the pole is actually kind of directly in between the two floors, so it's kind of at that floor level, so not directly -- kind of outside of one of the residential windows? so lastly in closing, as i think we often note, we are not reviewing these for impacts to, you know -- or otherwise not reviewing these for impacts to private property owners? we will look at impacts to public views on significant streets. this street was designated as a

significant street, however, we felt that, you know, this very minimal design would not impede any views. >> commissioner honda: so -- are you finished? >> i am. thank you. >> commissioner honda: very info informative. [inaudible] >> president fung: with one on top. >> the antenna? >> commissioner honda: the antenna. >> oh . >> commissioner honda: is it the box? well, she said it's only 1 inch more because they decided to combine two units into one, right? [inaudible] >> commissioner honda: sorry. sorry.

>> sorry. so just pointing here. so this -- kind of the radio equipment and -- sorry, radio equipment, and then, further up, the antenna? the top equipment is what's larger. the bottom equipment is about the same size. >> commissioner honda: so it's not four times larger. >> i don't believe so. i don't have the other carrier specifications with me? but we have been poling the equipment on city owned poles to be pretty consistent. >> commissioner honda: thank you very much. >> vice president swig: question. the subject of excellent view and notable street, you know, we -- i think about a year ago or so, we bounced one of these because it had a gorgeous view of golden gate park, which i would consider this view

significantly better than the one that we bounced. so how do you qualify significant street and excellent view and validate that because clearly, you know, the views from the streets are -- they're pretty nice. we saw nice, pretty pictures, and you've already said this is a significant street. so where's the -- where's the convenience factor or the justification factor? the convenience factor is my sarcastic way of dealing with it, but the justification factor is probably the more convenient way of saying that it is a significant street and it does have excellent views. >> sure. thank you for the question. if i could have the projector, please. sorry. let me just adjust this. so -- thank you on providing the example that the carrier provided that we were able to review. and so, you know, what i would

have everyone keep in mind is that -- keep in mind is that this is one snapshot along the street, and so this street has other views along the public right-of-way? and so we are taking that in mind, as well. >> vice president swig: you know what i said about convenient versus -- i'll now go back to convenient. i think it's very convenient what you are putting up there, and kind of insulting, actually, when there's an alternative which was presented by the appellant, but i'll let it go. >>clerk: okay. any other questions? >> okay. thank you. >>clerk: thank you. is there any public comment on this item? okay. how many people? okay. if you can lineup against the wall. two minutes, right? and given the volume of, public comment will be limit toded to

minutes. someone can start speaking right now. yes, the woman with the baby can go forward. there's no question. >> commissioner honda: thank you again for being so patient with us. first person please come up and speak. thank you, sorry. >>clerk: two minutes, every -- thank you. >> thank you very much. good evening, board members -- sort of -- sorry. board of appeals. i just wanted to clarify one quick thing, which is about the second notice. so the second notice is only e-mailed to those who protested, so other people did not receive information then about the cell site. >>clerk: is it possible for you to speak into that microphone? it's difficult to hear you. >> i am disturbed and upset about the handling and lack of public information about the proposed wireless facility in front of 1509 shrader which will be located 45 feet from the

bedroom of my four-year-old girl and six month old girl. it has been clear there has been a concerted effort to conceal and hide information about the installation of this tower because it is now an even taller tower housing an obnoxious equipment box. in early summer, i walked every adjacent street regularly with my then newborn for exercise, and i did not find a sings will notice about this potential cell site. i finally documented this on june 13 with both photos and a video of the entire 1500 block of shrader. and i have submitted this for your evidence. in addition, not a single cole valley organization was notified, not even the three schools that were located within three blocks of this potential cell site. instead, mobility notified a bunch of organizations in soma, miles from cole valley. i'm absolutely appalled by the failure to follow process and

the deceit. furthermore, some of the most upsetting errors include first, it was stated that there was to be only one antenna. that is absolutely clear, second paragraph, i believe. now i fund out there were two. there was no mention of the new, taller pole. the equipment box as we've discussed is pretty significant in size and the antenna is almost my height. >>clerk: thank you, ma'am. >> commissioner honda: i'm sorry. did you receive the original notice by mail? >> i did. >> commissioner honda: thank you. >>clerk: thank you. next speaker, please. >> my name is kirsten patterson, and i don't have anything prepared, but i'm a neighbor of them. i live about a block away on the 1400 block of shrader street? it's like the picture that the woman showed you that looks up the street with no view, i can

basically view the pole that's there. i -- i'm here in support of my neighbors and against the -- the installation of this new cell tower because it's so huge, it's almost -- it's basically -- it's 2 inches shorter than me, and i've lived there for ten years. i've never had any problem with cell service or anything like that? i don't really see any need to put, like, obstruct our views and make this more of a unhealthy environment? and, yeah, that's basically what i have to say about it. i'm very against it. but yeah. thank you for your time and everything. >>clerk: thank you. next speaker, please. [inaudible] >>clerk: okay. >> there's obviously

two separate devices on the tower. and also just a health risk of putting cell towers right next to people's bedrooms, especially children that are right there in that bedroom. we don't live there, but we know that if they plan to leave there because of the health or because of diminished value of the house, and they try to sell their house, what potential homeowner is not going to come in and say rk hey, that's my potential kid's room and walk right out, so i want to mention

the diminishment of the price of the house and any surrounding houses because of the cell tower. >>clerk: okay. thank you. [inaudible] >>clerk: okay. next speaker, please. >> hello. my name's elizabeth mcdonald. i'm a long time resident of cole valley. i live at 1516 shrader across the street from 1509 and 1515. i'm hear to ask that you support the appeal and deny the permit to install a wireless communication facility on top of a new pole in the 1500 block of shrader. the block of shrader is an underground utility district. my primary objection is that the proposed communication facility would include construction of a new taller utility pole within our underground utility district. the initial notice from public works dated may 25 described the project as equipment to be

installed at this location: one antenna, one equipment enclosure, and the permit conditions from public works stated no new poles shall be erected or placed in underground districts. our neighborhood appealed the decision to approve the permit, and in mobility's letter dated november 5, responding to the appeal, they said that the approved location is ideal because it allows the use of an existing steel street light pole owned by the sfpuc, avoiding the visual impact of a new utilities pole. however, mobility's project plans supplied with their response letter specify in a call out in the drawing for mobility's contractor to remove

existing streetlight pole and foundation contractor to place new 28'6" light pole. additionally, on top of the new 28.5 foot pole, there is to be a new enclosure, so the new structure will be over 7 feet taller than the existing pole. >>clerk: thank you. next speaker, please. >> commissioner honda: and just f.y.i. recording notification, it's -- regarding notification, it's 150 feet, so that's six houses from where the pole is being installed. >> good evening. my name is sean foley. i live at 4903 17th street. i live above my neighbor, bridget, who was the first person to speak. i live approximately 30 to 40 feet away from where this pole is. i purchased my unit in 2004, and a big reason why i bought where i did was because of the

underground utilities and the views and the aesthetics. i'm very concerned that this pole is going up. it will impact the aesthetics. i know that wasn't clear from the upward looking view, but it is clear when you look from the downward looking view. i'm concerned that this is being positioned as a replacement pole. there is nothing wrong with the existing pole that would require it to be replaced. it's clearly a new pole that's being inserted for a new utility in an underground utilities district. so i have concerns about that. the second issue is around notification. i did receive a first notification through the mail, but it was not clear to the level of all the things we talked about, this new height of the pole, there was going to be two pieces of equipment on this. it mentioned one. generally, i feel mobility has not respected us as neighbors by ensuring that the right people are getting communication in the first place, number one, and

number two, we're getting accurate information. the gentleman here tonight wasn't even clear himself how tall this pole was going to be, and he's representing the company, so i just feel very disrespected on top of that, for what that's worth. thanks. >>clerk: thank you. >> good evening, and thank you for your endurance. my name is burt shen, certainly no enemy of technology. i've worked for at&t, intel, qualcomm. i think my objections are three. number one, due process. mobility was -- and sprint were fined $11.6 million in april of this year for very similar issue, going ahead with putting up poles without first checking for impact, and then, we've noted other problems with their mailing and other procedures. number two is risk to property and to property values. and then, number three is risk to health. i know that it may not be the

primary purview of this board to think about health issues. to first approximation, the risk is proportional to the dose and the duration of the exposure so that even if it's a one time measurement is fairly low, if somebody's actually sleeping there for eight hours a night for ten or 15 years, the cumulative health risks may be quite high. in finally, because we've been talking about poles, if the equipment is to unobtrusive, what's the need for a bigger pole with a deeper foundation? thank you. >>clerk: thank you. next speaker, please. >> thank you. my name's randall swanson. i live about 30 feet uphill from the pole, and i did realize that you guys have heard 100 much

these case -- of these cases before. >> commissioner honda: thousands. >> you've heard that long-term expoufr to electromagnetic radiation effects are still under known. but i would like to show this photo. when they first noticed, they highlight the little bulb thing here up in the pole, but the equipment they make it look like it's part of the house at 1509, so this is kind of deceptive in their presentation to us. so thank you very much for your time, and for sending me this postcard, inviting me over here. really appreciate it. >>clerk: thank you. >> commissioner honda: thank you. >>clerk: i'm sorry. next speaker, please. okay. we'll get it later.

>> good evening. >>clerk: if that works for you as long as we can hear you. >> i'm toshina redmon young. we just got up a box near us that i wish i had paid more attention to. i'm here in support of my neighbor who has a baby and a small girl. on a side note, i know we're not supposed to talk about health, but i have two children and they're four houses away from the box near 17th and stan i don't know -- stannion, and i'm very concerned about it. i'm going to share some of the concerns of my friend. from everything that i've heard, it does sound like there's been negligence in terms of the third party provider and that some of the homeowners indeed were not notified properly. she says that over 100 of us

were clearly misled and informed by mobility. this does not comply with the very clear conditions of the permit. mobility must follow the city's process and permit process or we would have no public process or protection. this is why we're here asking you this please. >>clerk: next speaker, please. >> hello. my name is mali patterson, and i'm the homeowner on the block before 1400. and i never received mail from public works or anything about this, only last night, this gentleman put it in my door. and so i told my daughter and her boyfriend to come here tonight because that is a lie.

we never received any notice about, you know, they probably send it to market street or somewhere else. and it looks -- it looks to ugly. i mean here, yes, it's -- it's -- it's going to look ugly. if you have a nice view, it looks ugly. they denied it in the middle valley -- no, midvalley, they denied to put up the cell towers because it has issue, and so -- and everywhere, they put it up, and i can't believe it that -- you should deny it because it's ugly and it's a health issue.

and also, besides, we never got any notice. that's the first one, last night. and nobody really discussed it, but i discuss it that -- that was a lie that they said they mailed out anything. and i'm there, i'm looking every day at the mail. and also, my daughter didn't get it, and nobody, no. and we wouldn't have noticed it if we hadn't have gotten it last night. and that's why i'm here, and i'm here for six years, otherwise, i wouldn't be here. >>clerk: thank you. >> thank you. >> commissioner honda: ma'am, do you live -- how many houses away do you live from the proposed pole? >> i live 1426 shrader street? >> commissioner honda: so more than six houses away. >> yeah, but also, we have the view. [inaudible] >>clerk: okay.

thank you. okay. next speaker. >> i'm going to take advantage of this mic here, too. my name is tate cedar. this is actually a box size of part of the actual apparatus just to bring up and compare. and if you do look, you know at the diagram -- >>clerk: overhead, please. >> -- you'll see. okay. you'll see that it does come in contact with the bedroom, and that's my sister's room. she's not able to be here right now, but also, they did replace the bulb with a much brighter light, and it has been harder for her to sleep with that pole. i'm not going to lie, her bed's kind of comfy, and when she's out of town, she's like sure, you can sleep in there. the light is really bright, and i can't imagine what it's going to be like when the apparatus is

added. i work in marketing and i give fliers and posters to retail. when it comes to notice for the city, we have to check the rules about what poles you can post, and whatnot. if not, seeking a comment to you, v.p. swig, i do check the alternatives, if i can check what poles to post, and this large corporation and organization can't, then i wonder. >>clerk: thank you. is there any other public comment? seeing none, we'll move onto rebuttal. we'll hear from the appellant. you have three minutes. >> all right. thank you folks see that? i can't see it on the screen. >>clerk: overhead. thank you. >> i'm really surprised at the misinformation that we got from

the three other agencies tonight. i'm disappointed by it. i expected more honest answers for you and complete answers. you were told a number of things that were just flat out incorrect or they didn't have the information for you. both organizations didn't know that the pole was taller. it's 2'3" taller. you can see that. the planning has told you how big the equipment is. there were 34 sites on the homt and edison mobility list for sprint. i have it, and got it through discovery, as well. it was just information through information here. this notion that these are one-inch different in size, i have the dimensions here. i hope you can see them. i'll read them out to you.

the box on the lower left, 15.5 inches wide, the at&t mobility box, 8 inches wide. the box on the lower left is the -- i'm sorry, the box on the left is the sprint box. it is 11 inches deep. the box on the right from mobility is 5.5 inches deep. the box itself is more than twice the size in that dimension, and it is 32 inches tall. vice president swig, you were correct, it is a big box. to not be marking it out for following the planning guidelines to do that is another -- was another, you know, misleading by these organizations. i think i've got most of them. i just want to recap. mobility did not comply with noticing. they did not notice any of the neighborhood organizations in the first mailing. i don't know what they did in the second mailing because there was no second mailing.

it came by e-mailing only to people who had protested. i have the list from their contractor. it does not have any haight-ashbury or any organization in our area on it. they're all south of market. you can see the heading on it. mobility failed to notify the residents forth rightly of the works plan, the new plan, the pole, the size of the pole. the application does not comply with public works conditions number two, no installation of new poles in underground utility district. thank you very much for considering this. >>clerk: thank you. we'll now hear from the attorney for the permit holder. >> to circle back to the new pole replacement pole issue, the replacement pole that is going in is a 28'6" city standard pole. this is the pole that your sfpuc has as a standard pole across the city. this is what they have asked us

to put there. when it comes to replacing a pole with sfpuc, that decision lies with them, whether they want us to use the existing one or replacement one. part of the condition of working with them is to put in new foundation with them, any way. so if sfpuc would rather have us use the existing pole, which my understanding it conforms to the replacement pole, but this is what sfpuc is asking, and we're following the contract. planning guidelines, theis is t be in conformance with other carriers. the midpole equipment enclosure is already deployed elsewhere in the city. it's an industry standard type enclosure by the manufacturing ltec.

why other carriers don't use it, again, every carrier uses different equipment. i believe the photo the appellant was showing, there's another piece of equipment stacked on top of it, but he's just highlighting the lower piece of equipment compared to our midpole enclosure thatten compo -- that encompasses midpole intersections. the nearest utility poles can't support additional infrastructure on them, and until this summer, telephone corporations such as mobility didn't even have access rights to the pole tops of those utility poles which is a requirement for installing these kinds of things with sprint. so those weren't even on the table until recently, and even now, you know, the poles -- pg&e's utility poles are already

overloaded and where you want these things undergrounded, i don't think you would want more on those utility poles when we can do the planning approved, you know, conform design that the city has asked for, you know. so again, in noticing, commissioner honda, as you pointed out, 150 feet, the radius is very large. i don't know everyone's address here offhand, whether they call in 150 feet. it's not going to be a large group that's going to get the mailing notice, but we did comply. we did send out to an address list that our third party vendor developed. we in good faith complied with the noticing requirements. thank you. >>clerk: thank you. >> commissioner honda: counselor, are you familiar with senate bill 649 that originally passed through the senate?

>> i am. >> commissioner honda: okay. can you give us a light description of what that would have allowed prior to govern i don't remember -- governor brown vetoing that? >> it would have removed a lot of the city processes in place -- >> commissioner honda: basically, in short, it allowed the telecommunication companies to put anything they want on top of our poles. >> it certainly wasn't carte blanche. >> there was no size requirement, there was only a noise requirement. >> yes, i believe. >> commissioner honda: okay. thank you. >>clerk: is there anything else from the department of public works or planning? planning? okay. thank you. so commissioners, this matter is submitted. >> commissioner honda: i'll start off. so one, i really appreciate every spending -- i know that you really wanted to spend six hours down at city hall this

evening, and trust me, i'm very sympathetic to this. but again, as i've said, we've heard literally thousands of these particular cases. the state has pretty much tide or arms with article 25 that health is not to be mentioned. there's very, very few things that we have the ability -- and usually even when we deny it, we just are continuing it, we're punting it, and at which point, it will get approved later on. as i mentioned earlier, there was a bill that is passed by our local senate that allowed the telecommunications to put anything on the pole, and our governor actually vetoed it. no one in this room probably knew about it. the concern is you should probably talk to your local supervisor, senator and assembly person. unfortunately in this particular case, the only question i had was regarding notification, which we had a right, and particularly in regards to whether it's a new pole or old

pole. i think i personally have enough information that it is a replacement pole, and they do have a right to replace it with that. regarding notification, there was no one here that was within the required notification area that said that they did not receive notification. so unfortunately, my opinion is that to uphold the permit, that it was properly issued. >> president fung: i guess i'll disagree with you. >>clerk: there's no comments from the audience. >> president fung: you know, the situation in a -- [inaudible] >> president fung: excuse me. there's no more comments. everybody had their chance. now it's our turn. there aren't very many districts that have undergrounded. we faced one before, and unfortunately, the appeal lost

on a split vote, but i'll take the same position. theirs was a little bit different in the sense that i went against the planning determination. this time, i'm going to go against the d.p.w. determination that this -- that they can word smith it all they want, but this is a new pole, and undergrounded, it's not allowed. >> commissioner honda: i'll support that. without further comment, is that your motion? >> president fung: in a -- in an undergrounded utility district. i don't know. somebody -- >> commissioner honda: it's late. it was said. >>clerk: you going to make a motion? >> president fung: yeah, condition number two on the permit. >> commissioner lazarus: i'll make a motion. >>clerk: okay.

>> commissioner lazarus: for further discussion. >>clerk: can you speak into the microphone. >> commissioner lazarus: yes. i'm going to move to deny the appeal and grant the permit on the basis that it was properly issued. >>clerk: okay. we have a motion from commissioner lazarus to deny the appeal and grant the permit on the basis that it was properly issued. on that motion -- [roll call] >>clerk: okay. so that motion fails. >> president fung: i'm going to request -- >> commissioner honda: a continuance? >> president fung: -- that we continue this case so that we can have the department resolve this issue on notice. >> commissioner honda: how about clarifying the new pole, and the definition on the new pole. >> president fung: well, there's already been a motion that lost. have to be a continuance. >> commissioner honda: i agree. >>clerk: okay. so we have a motion from

president fung, and to what date did you want to continue this? >> president fung: i think it should be d.p.w. looking at this. how long do you need to verify results? couple of weeks? >> commissioner honda: will we need p.u.c. or no? >> president fung: they weren't involved in the notice. >> commissioner honda: okay, but if it's the pole -- >> commissioner tanner: that's not d.p.w.'s pole. >> commissioner honda: so we would need p.u.c. to give the definition. >>clerk: president fung wants to verify the noticing for the permit. that's what the continuance is for. >> commissioner honda: okay. >> commissioner lazarus: and how are you proposing that they do that? >> president fung: i think they all need to delve into it and determine what was sent out and whether it was accurate or not. >> commissioner lazarus: not sure how they're going to do that.

>> you want more than the list of addresses? >> president fung: look, i'm making the motion. if you want to amend it, you're welcome to do that. >> commissioner lazarus: no. >>clerk: okay. so we have a motion from president fung to continue this matter and -- >> president fung: let's continue to december 12. >>clerk: -- to december 12 so that the department of public works can verify that noticing of this matter was properly performed. >> president fung: yes. >>clerk: on that motion -- [roll call] >>clerk: okay. so that motion carries with three votes, and the matter's continued. so this concludes the hearing.