example, batallion chief, deputy chief, etc., so i'm asking that right now, but you do have ten captains with at the point years. and then, you'll have presumably most of the people above that. >> president cleaveland: okay. commissioner veronese, does that satisfy you? >> commissioner veronese: no, i -- i mean, i don't mean -- this is important, right? whi we're deciding to limit our pool of applicants to so far, i'm hearing the number is ten on the lowest. from what i understand, there are not many more people that are actually eligible. so our question -- the question to us is are we comfortable with a pool of just ten people? >> president cleaveland: are you wishing to change the minimum qualifications, commissioner veronese? if so, to what? >> commissioner veronese: well, it's a good question.

it's a very good question. i want to make sure that we have a deep enough pool of people to choose from, and if these captain's lists, and that's the standard, and we only do them every ten years, then we're limiting ourselves to a very small pool of people. like, i'm wondering on the command staff actually qualify for this list? i would bet you it's probably not more than one or two. >> you're right. >> commissioner veronese: so we are basically saying that all those people on the command staff are not eligible for to apply for this job, with the exception of one or two, and i'm not comfortable making that decision. so what is that standard? i don't know, but i want to be able to choose for the chief that i think is the most qualified, not because they've got some sort of degree, which the degrees these days, you can be extremely successful without

having a degree. >> president cleaveland: thank you. miss callahan, is it customary that these kinds of department heads require ten years? >> i think there was a discussion -- the mayor shared a concern that a person has to have a lot of on the ground experience. however, i'm sure that she would accept the concern of the commission, and really, we want to make sure that there's a deep enough pool from whom to choose. and eefven with the substitutio one option would be to have more credit with a bachelor's degree. it's who gets in the door. it's a little more work for scott, but that's fine. >> commissioner veronese, do you have a minimum? would you want to reduce it to

eight as miss callahan as recommended or are you opposed? >> commission >> commissioner veronese: . >> i do want to note that we, under the chief's leadership have had regular exams, and we're now on a cycle of every four years or so. >> yeah, i want to be very mindful that i'm not involved in this process, nor do i want to insert myself, but i think i have some knowledge that is -- would be worthwhile to share. so having said that, i'm planning on retiring in the springtime. ideally would be may 5.

there is some time because it does seem like there's a lot of uncertainty right now, and i appreciate the thoughtfulness of the discussion. i think commissioner veronese brings a very valid point. we have a talented department at all levels, and i'm proud that i've been able to hired about 1200 of the 1800 members of the of the ten year requirement -- and again, i don't want to be part of the process because i think d.h.r. does an incredible job, but to your point, commissioner veronese, there are ten people that have that rank of ten years or more. there's a total of 69 captains, so theoretically, there are 59 people at the rank of captain that are not eligible at the rank they are now. so i'm saying with a little more time and discussion, it would be more inclusive. that's all i had to say.

>> commissioner veronese: certainly, commissioners, we know if you had been at station one or station three for the last five years, you have more experience. there's different levels of experience in this department, and so i just don't want to exclude people because i think we have an extremely talented department. and especially, i don't want to exclude people that are on the command staff that want to apply to be chief. and by these qualifications, we're excluding all but two. so we're hearing the only solid number of pool of people we can choose from is 12 of the department. and the people that we could choose from outside of the department could be hundreds. yes, miss callahan. >> could i make a suggestion? an option could say, you could keep ten years at captain or you could have a lower number at a higher level, also? for example, an existing -- and

you could qualify anybody who's currently on the command staff. that's another option. >> yes. >> i mean, it's your call. we're just providing a professional recommendation. >> commissioner veronese: then i would qualify anybody at batallion chief or higher. >> perhaps if they've passed probation. >> commissioner veronese: well, you would have had to have passed probation to be at that level. >> president cleaveland: so you want to erase captain? >> commissioner veronese: no, you add batallion chief, and. >> president cleaveland: i think we're wasting our time on this, i would say. i think i wouldn't vote for somebody who's a captain.

>> commissioner hardeman: i brought up the rank and file through the chair because there are some great people that would make a great chief, but that's not the point. the point is we have captains, and we have a limited number of captains because we don't have openings for captains, so we can't just have everybody just because they haven't been able to be a captain for ten years or a captain. there's only so many possibilities for captains. we had one retirement last year -- and i don't think that was a captain -- or one retirement last month. so to the best of my knowledge, chief, we're meeting the needs of enough captains. regardless of the fact we might not have the test for a while, do we have any acting captains working now or are they all permanent status? >> all our positions are filled.

>> commissioner hardeman: so all the positions are filled -- yes, it was bad we didn't have tests for captains that was over those years. that was for a variety of reasons. but now, i think to try and backtrack for that happening, we're sort of wasting our time. that's sort of my personal opinion. >> commissioner veronese: commissioner, just a point of clarification. i don't think we're saying anything different. i think we're saying the same thing. what i would like to amend this to say is keep a requirement of minimum work experience of ten years to the rank of captain or higher, including anyone who's served as a batallion chief or hire. so that would include everybody who's been here ten years or more at captain, and including everyone who's batallion chief or higher. so i would move to amendment

that provision at such. >> president cleaveland: is that an amendment? all in favor. >> commissioner covington: i'm in favor of that. [voting] >> so basically, we're looking at it there's alternate tiff ways to qualify. one is to be a captain ten years or more, one is to have been appointed batallion chief or captain and above, ten years or more. we're adding a new, different way to qualify to what's already here, and that would be a batallion chief, and that would be anywhere, or only in the san francisco fire department? >> i think in the san francisco fire department. >> and also, no time requirement on batallion chief? need not have been a batallion chief for any particular period of time.

>> commissioner veronese: because presumably, if you're a batallion chief, you've had that experience at captain. no. it's ultimately up to us who we want to choose for. this increases the pool that we can choose from. >> all right. i think we're agreed. >> batallion chief and above? >> yes. >> thank you. >> with that change, then, may we approve the posting for the position? do i have a motion? >> commissioner covington: so moved. >> president cleaveland: so moved by commissioner covington. second? >> commissioner hardeman: second. >> president cleaveland: discussion, vice president nakajo? >> commissioner nakajo: we spent a lot of time on this, and i hate to have you walk away without something being accomplished, department callahan. i appreciate the formalization and concepts of commissioner veronese. i know it's better than

off-the-cuff, but i still need to process this, as well. if the commission in its flavor and its wisdom wishes to accept this, i know that we as a commission can't abstain on a vote, am i correct? am i correct on that, commissioner cal -- >> we only need a positive vote, so i believe people don't have to vote if they don't want to, as long as you have a quorum. >> commissioner nakajo: yeah. conceptually, i think i'm trying to follow it. i think it's just a little quick, but we spent some time on it. i have a lot of confidence in you, commissioner veronese. i understand your intention, so i just wanted to say that, as well. i guess somewhere along the line, does it change things if we take it back and get it a little more refined or

colleagues, if you wish to vote for it, i can support it, i guess. thank you. >> president cleaveland: thank you, mr. vice president. commissioner covington? >> commissioner covington: thank you, mr. president. i think we've gone over it and made the decisions that need to be made. i see that the commission attorney is present, so may i ask mr. russey to come up regarding abextensions? >> commissioners are required to vote on every matter that comes before the commission unless you have a legal conflict of interest. i also mention that you should take public comment before you vote on this matter. >> commissioner covington: thank you, mr. russey. >> president cleaveland: okay. given that, do we have -- chief,

would you like to add something -- >> sure. so it's been brought to my attention, and i think it's valid. when you're looking at being inclusive, there are members of the command staff that have not achieved the rank of batallion chief, so they're not captains. some of them may be interested in applying for the position, but they've not held the position for ten years or more. >> commissioner covington: we've already discussed that. [please stand by]

. >> all in favor of accepting the brochure as amended, say aye.

[voting] >> president cleaveland: any opposed? it's unanimous, and thank you, miss callahan. >> thank you. so we have, just to clarify, then, the hiring plan and -- as modified, and the brochure. >> president cleaveland: and the brochure. >> thank you. >> president cleaveland: we did add the date november 28, so we'll take public comment as well as input from the department on the additional qualifications that would be supplemental. >> excellent. so when we redraft that today, we'll send it to you and to your fire commission secretary to make sure we captured it correctly. we changed it to january 5 -- >> president cleaveland: it was january 4. >> that's why i have scott here. thank you. >> president cleaveland: thank you very much for your time and your talent. madam secretary, would you call the next item.

>> item seven, discussion and possible action to adopt changes to the procedural rules governing trial of disciplinary cases added under section 4, procedures for setting a disciplinary case for hearing. >> president cleaveland: mr. russey, please come up. >> good morning again, commissioners. brad russey from the city attorney's office. as you all know for sometime now, the commission has been offering in disciplinary cases, the possibility of an early case resolution conference to members to try to move along the process and see if the department and the member can come to some sort of resolution short of an expensive and sort of trial that would have to occur. so that's been offered for sometime, but the rules haven't reflected that procedure. at your request, i've proposed

some amendments to the rules to codify that procedure form ely. it's on page does 6 and 7 and 8 and 9 on the draft that's before you. first in all cases there'll be an initial case management conference by telephone for the missioner -- commissioner that's sitting as a hearing officer to come to an agreement on dates and also to discuss the possibility of an early case resolution conference. such conferences would be voluntary. the department and the member would have to agree, and they wouldn't be available in termination cases because that is the decision that the commission has made over time in this -- in these conferences. and i'm available to answer any questions. >> president cleaveland: thank you, counsel. do we have any public comment on this item? seeing none, public comment is

closed. commissioner coughing tocvingto. >> commissioner covington: thank you, mr. president. i'm glad there's been an amendment of this process because many members aren't aware that this process is available to them, and i would like to move this item. >> president cleaveland: thank you. any other commissioners wish to add anything? we have a motion on the floor to adopt these changes which are voluntary, obviously. do i have a second? >> commissioner hardeman: second. >> president cleaveland: second, commissioner hardeman. all in favor? [voting] >> president cleaveland: it is unanimous. thank you, mr. russey. madam secretary, would you call the next item. >>clerk: item 8, chief's report. report from chief of department, joanne hayes-white, reports on happenings in the department since the last meeting, and report from operations, deputy chief mark gonzales, report on

overall field operations including greater alarm fires, emergency medical services, bureau of fire prevention and investigation and airport division. and this is also a reminder, we need to be out of this room by 12:15. >> president cleaveland: so make it snappy. >> will do. thank you. message received. good morning, president cleaveland and commissioners. this is my report as the commission secretary said since our last meeting on october 24. first and foremost, i did want to say thank you, commissioner cleaveland for having a moment of silence at the top of the meeting for those that are suffering great losses from what's happening in northern california as well as southern california and including the tragedy of what happened in thousand oaks last week. not a natural disaster but man made terrorism. so i want to -- and i think you'll hear from cd-2 given the

time we'll move things along, but really proud of the members that we've deployed both to the catc campfire and butte county. we did have 40 members out there. everyone is doing very well. they're fatigued. they were deployed a week ago, and we had a strike team, which is five engines, and that's led by the strike team leader, captain siguenza, and there's a total of 40 engines. we deployed our o.e.s. 4061 rig. and then, we were asked because resources are very limited, another asset, another strike team of which we weren't able to fulfill five, but we sent three

more engines, and they sent two more engines to makeup another strike team. they're on a rest day today and will be back working. they're assigned in paradise, so more to follow, but they're all safe and accounted for and really appreciate their hard work. it's even more challenging, i think, and more draining, not only the physical work, but the emotional toll in terms of being on scene and identifying remains and working in conjunction with the local authorities as it relates to finding remains. so that's been a particular challenge, and we really are proud of their efforts. we also -- so they were deployed last week, 11-8, at about 1500 hours, and then, on november 10 at about noontime, we deployed three more engines to the hill fire down in southern california. the officers are lieutenant

anthony mark net, mark macias and gary altenberg. they joined us with engines from mountain view and alameda county, and the captain is from mountain view. these are typically two week deployments. the o.e.s. rig, i'm looking at chief gonzales. the o.e.s. rig is up to 21 days? it's up to 15 days. okay. very good. so i wanted to make note about that. just in terms of the events since the last meeting, appreciate all the efforts of the staff, command staff, as well as operations. it was a safe halloween enjoyed by many and it was uneventful for the most part in terms of any major incidents or injuries on the night of halloween. on the night of the 1st, chief

sanof and i attended a committee related to some of the street behavior that we experienced. on the 5th, assistant deputy chief ali and assistant chief gonzales and i had a tone call with san mateo county. he -- phone call with san mateo county. they will get together with chief ali with regard to the assistance they provide to us at the airport. there's a new hotel that's coming on-line later this summer -- or in the summertime, so they will talk about operations and strategies and tactics. two events, one which supports the san francisco firefighters toy program. it's a program called project glimmer, and they provide

funding to our toy program and many other worthy causes. attended that program on the 7th, and then, a number of us, chief zanoff, rivera, zano, and others attended a phoenix society dinner of what's called the old timers. there were five former members of our department acknowledged and received awards at that dinner. so wanted to thank the staff for attending that and recognizing some of our highly regarded retired members. i know i saw him on t.v. commissioner hardeman and i both had the privilege of attending the celebration of live for willie mccoffee -- life for willie mccovey.

and then, i wanted to thank all the entire command staff for participating in the meeting with orange county where we exchanged information. they were interested particularly in our recruitment and retention efforts as well as in conjunction with the diversity of the department. unfortunately, the chief and the deputy chief could not come up because they are dealing with the fires. that evening, chief nicholson, chief ali and i attended a graduation ceremony. noteworthy that mayor breed showed up and really inspired these young people. it's a really great evening and so have her present, very accommodating taking pictures and was very well received. all of us in the command staff, and i appreciate each and every one of them, attended the veterans day parade on sunday.

i know commissioner covington joined us, as well, and i appreciate that. that should be one of the most highly regarded parades, and we had good participation. later that evening at the war memorial, i attended the world war one armistice centennial. did want to acknowledge, and i'll pass it around -- i did want to acknowledge jesus buchon, you can't go wrong, write it up. she wasn't sure if we'd qualify or be worthy, but the fire department received a bronze award for the healthy mothers

workplace for some of our initiatives as it relates to some of our members returning to work after they've had a baby. so thank you for writing that up, and also in the work we do in conjunction with our own d.h.r., not just for mothers, but fathers, as well, because they take leave. so we're very proud of that. commissioner president cleaveland for consideration of adjournment, in addition to what we've experienced in terms of tragedies this last week, we did have three retired members pass away, and i'd ask that you adjourn in their memoriy. first one was firefighter lynette dryer. she left the department in 2000.

second one -- and i had the pleasure of working with all three. sid taylor, who passed away on may 30. and finally, on november 5, retired captain matt pleschia passed away on october 23. that concludes my report. >> president cleaveland: thank you, chief. is there any public comment on the chief's report? seeing none, public comment is closed. commissioner hardeman? >> commissioner hardeman: yes, real quick, mr. president, i want there as the chief said for the willie mccovey memorial. willie mays, never at a loss for

words. but he couldn't say anything, he was so sad. great loss, but the reason i bring this up is the san francisco fire department, with the tribute with the fireboat, to me, that's one of the hingth. i know that whenever i've been out in the fireboat, they seem to enjoy it, and they encourage you to come back. hopefully, it's not a burden on them. i was thinking, there was three times that i was out on the fireboat that we responded to problems. so each time, actually, it was good the fireboat was out because it was closer to the

problem. so any way, i hope that we keep that up with the new fire chief, getting that fireboat out and getting it on the bay and celebrating the events and different things like that. thank you. thanks for your work, chief. >> president cleaveland: thank you, commissioner hardeman. chief, who was the last person you mentioned? captain mark? >> captain matt plescia. >> commissioner hardeman: mr. president, i hate to do this again. >> president cleaveland: you have something else? >> commissioner hardeman: captain plescia, he typefies what many of us do, coaching. he had coached for many years, little league kids baseball. that's just another firefighter

being a good american and helping the community. thank you. >> president cleaveland: thank you, commissioner hardeman. i see no additional commissioners' questions. chief gonzales, please come up and give us a quick report. >> good morning, president, commissioners, chief, maureen. department chief mark gonzales, operations report for the month of october. within this operations period, we had one greater alarm, third alarm. it was on 405 david court, cross street, jackson. i just want to say that i'm very proud of the job that bob did at that fire as well as the rest of the chiefs. he led it with a very calm demeanor in a precise, methodical manner. i recommend you all listen to the tactical channel of that fire. they did a good job. overall, i mean, i'm cut for time, so what i will say is

this: he made sure that they cleared those stairwells before the tire tac happened. they used inch and three quarter line to put most of these floor does out -- 12, 13, 14, 15, 16. they utilized lines that were nearby the building. there were no sprinklers in this building, but the fire alarms did work. they made a stop on the 14th floor with a house line. they jumped up and down to other floors with the inch and three-quarters lines. the person on the interior stairwell made sure that the residents got out in an efficient manner. so overall, they just did a fantastic job. he also did a great call to get

the 2.5 line ready, our attack line, larger line. he recognized that it could be a win driven event. as most of you know in 1993, we had a high-rise fire, where an eventual fatality died. we went and visited the building later, and inspector -- investigator engler, one of our arson investigators, he surmised, he could see by the burn pattern, that it blew in from the windows, it burned off a wall and made a little bit of a turn out to a window on another corner -- opposite corner of the building. that window was also a hazard to our members. it went from ceiling to floor. that window popped out, and some of that heat was going out that way, so there was a lot of things that happened at that fire that were great.

what was most amazing, they put that fire out in 45 minutes. that's unheard of it. i'd like to go into this more in depth at a later meeting when we have more time, and maybe have the chief present this with the rao at the meeting. >> president cleaveland: do we know what the cause was? >> it's still out, but i can get you for you. >> out of 620 high-rises, 130 that are not residential are not sprinklered. that's where we had our most challenging fires in the '90's up until the early 2000's. i'm very happy -- i couldn't be prouder, and i'm sure we couldn't be prouder of the people on scene that put that

fire out that day. just amazing work. onto the strike teams. i want to thank c.d. 1, a.d.c. fellow, c.d. 3, a.d.c. rivera for working with our wild land strike teams to get that out in an efficient manner. as we've told you before, i've told you before, the strike team that went out, that's strike team leader pablo siguenza. sometimes we're ask for as many engines as we can give. we made sure those company officers were experienced. the strike team leaders that they went from around here, the three yellows that went up north, yellow meaning the yellow rigs that we have. we have eight yellow rigs that we can send. they have a pump and roll

feature, and the red rigs do not. they went with the oakland strike leader, and the three engines that went down to the hill fire went down with mountain view. i'd like to read a text from pablo what they've been doing up north. sffd personnel have been working multiaim operational perioded in the town of paradise to make it safe for residents to repopulate. they'll do anything they're asked to do, and it's a rough assignment. extinguishing hot spots, performing animal pick ups. as you know, you've read about that fire. when it was first spreading, those unfortunate residents did not have a chance.

80 football fields perminute, it was burning, so very tragic, but i'm very proud of the members up there, as well. just to abbreviate my report, i'll give you a couple of the e.m.s. saves we made. -- our crews did c.p.r. gave high flow oxygen immediately. patient has been reported discharged and in hospital -- from the hospital and is healthy and thriving. on october 22, 47-year-old patient was found not 1307bssive by co-workers. the patient was found to be in defib. our crews performed c.p.r. and administered other treatment. the patient regained pulses following treatment and was breathing on his own and moving upper extremities upon arrival at the emergency department. >> president cleaveland: deputy chief gonzales, i'm just going to interrupt you here and ask if

any commissioners have any questions on the report. very extensive and well prepared report, and we've had it in advance. i'd like to ask our commissioners in deference to the time if any of our commissioners have questions for chief gonzales ha, have the questions now and dispense with any presentation. so any commissioners have any questions? i don't see any names up there. good job. >> nice talking to you. thanks. >> president cleaveland: thank you very much. is there any public comment on chief gonzales's report? seeing none, public comment is closed. commission -- madam second, call the next item. >>clerk: item nine, commission report. report on commission activity since last meeting on october 24, 2018. >> president cleaveland: commissioner hardeman? >> commissioner hardeman: well, this is not on part meetings. my son, nick hardeman, is going to be honored december 13 by the

laborer's union as a way to raise dollars and items for the san francisco firefighters tow program so i'm very happy that my son -- that he has the benefits of that evening will go to the toy program, so december 13. >> president cleaveland: congratulations to your son, nick hardeman. commissioner veronese? >> commissioner veronese: this is a report on -- since the last meeting, reporting to the commission that i had presided over two disciplinary hearings yesterday. and i also appeared at one of the fires started at golden gate park. i believe we had six fires in a 24 hour period.

i was at a fire downtown. and also had the privilege of going out to butte county, i don't i didn't see the firefighters, i didn't get close enough to see those guys, they were up in paradise doing rescue and recovery, but i was able to go up there and bring food and stuff for the residents. it was a pretty extraordinary scene, and what those guys and girls are going through, to the chief's point, the emotional toll that i'm sure that's taking on them, i'm happy that we are in the process of putting together a state of the art peer support unit that will be able to help those guys and girls. thank you. >> president cleaveland: very commendable, commissioner veronese. seeing none, is there any public comment on this issue? seeing none, public comment is

closed. madam secretary, would you please call the next item. >>clerk: item 10, commissioner nakajo and commissioner covington to discuss action taken on the special meeting retreat. >> president cleaveland: commissioner covington, i'll defer to you. >> commissioner covington: thank you, mr. president. just as a follow up to the retreat that we had about a month ago, i think it would be prudent of us to have a subcommittee to go over a number of the items that were put forth to prioritize the items going forward and to also, you know, present to the commission those items to be voted on. i did ask the president -- or suggested to the president that we have a subcommittee of the entire body of the commission,

and he has fined commissioner nakajo, so commissioner nakajo served on the public safety transition team, so he has that knowledge base. also, i suggested to the president that the two deputies who are there the entire day, that they also be included, and i think -- i think that, you know, having them as a brain trust would be great. the two commissioners will be making the decision about presenting anything to the entire commission, but two deputies would be wonderful. then, a suggestion came in recently regarding the people who worked on the public safety

team with commissioner nakajo, that they might also be invited if their schedules permit. that would be a former member of the deputy, chief columbini, that would be -- [inaudible] >> commissioner covington: yes, tom o'connor, and who else, commissioner nakajo? oh, i thought there were four, including you. so that's what we will be doing, if that's -- if this is approved by the entire commission, then we will get started, and you'll be hearing more. >> president cleaveland: thank you, commissioner covington. mr. vice president.

chief i see your name up there, do you have a comment? >> i do. i'm trying to move things along, and keep on the agenda, but i didn't comment on the agenda. i didn't hit on the items that my report suggested i talk about. academies, as you know, we have an h-3 level one class. i think november 30, invitations go out. it's going to be at city college, diego rivera theater. we also are beginning the selection process for the 125th class. we do anticipate some interviews and further background to prepare for that class. there have been 14 conditional offers made at this time, and those are the items that i did not mention that i just wanted to bring to your attention. >> president cleaveland: thank

you, chief. mr. vice president? >> commissioner nakajo: thank you very much, mr. president. on this item of the commission retreat action plan, i wanted to have some comments in terms of this request by the president upon his suggestion because i haven't accepted that assignment yet because i wanted to do some contemplation. part of it was what i mentioned before, and i'll try to make this concise because we know we have to be out of here by 12:15, and we do have a closed session, but i do have some items that i want to talk about. number one, i'm reluctant in terms of this commission to form formalize a committee because in my opinion we're formalizing

another committee that was formalized around a retreat that was supposed to have findings from our commissioners. sometimes when i make my remarks, someone thinks or it sounds like i'm criticizing the process, but i'm voicing my opinions and concerns, but that doesn't mean that i'm not supportive of conceptuals. it wasn't that i was keen on this retreat. quite frankly, i wasn't. i thought a concept of a special meeting or some kind of dialogue, i was convinced by the dialogue of the commissioners, that we haven't -- the commission had an opportunity to digest, the findings of the wish list that we submitted. i don't want to go over rehashed business, but the wish list was put together by a committee of -- made by the public safety

for the public safety of the mayor's office. it was made up of some past officers, but also some administration of local 798. i participated by a phone conference call, and i thought by in terms of the charge, which was very challenging, of trying to come up with, a wish list, what we came up with that day was pretty much a list of what we could live with. i thought that in terms of the charge, what the summit committee was charged to do by coming to the summit meeting and giving a two-minute presentation to present those findings pretty much would suffice in terms of what our charge was. what occurred after that, as well, a summit meeting, tom

o'connor was one of the presenters, and he presented materials. the mayor's office asked the chief of the department with administration to respond to those wish list findings, which he did. i thought particularly that all of that was then accomplished. we submitted a wish list, the chief of the deputy submitted the response. again, when the concept of conference came along for the dialogue of the commissioners to be able to dialogue it, to be able to be on the same page, so to speak, i could support that. i personally thought that we, the commissioners -- i'm speaking for myself -- would have some priorities in terms of budget priorities or in terms of program priorities, but i began to realize with the discussion

that it wouldn't hurt us to have a session by which we're discussing all of this. so i basically cooperated, attended, participated. part of one of the concerns that i had was we would do that tweshlly, use some of our facilities, our resources. what happened was it was discussed that we hire a consultant. i verbalized against that. we'd have to come up with $3,000 for administration for this alterna consultant. again, not saying that the consultant can't do good things, but i thought that a fee of $3,000 for the retreat, and we had that in september would at least produce a written product. unfortunately, there wasn't a written product produced one way or another.

we know, i know that we, the commission secretary, has a recording of those minutes, and traditionally, when we adopt findings, we, the commission, adopt minutes. at this particular point, i thought that we had all of this in play until the president informed me that he wants to formalize a committee that's charged to put together the findings and the summaries in my opinion that the consultant could have done, should have done. i'm not criticizing the consultant. maybe it wasn't a clear directive, but that $3,000, if we're going to do something that was supposed to be paid for, i can find other uses, like i verbalized, for other uses. 1500 for the cancer fund, 1500 for the tori fund. so now that we have permission from the president to ask myself

and commissioner covington, to create a subcommittee to refer the submission, the suggestion was that we ask the two chiefs to attend this meeting to be part of and to invite other members. to me, respectfully, it's a repetition. i believe both chiefs were at the retreat. i believe both commissioner covington and i will at the retreat. we did participation, we did remarks. i believe i was there, and i witnessed the consultant putting it on butcher paper, which i believe was sitting at the commission secretary's office. for me to have another session based with the two deputy chiefs, and one of the concerns i had with the first retreat with the deputy chiefs and everybody else was cost effective concepts. like perhaps the deputy chiefs

and the rest of the chiefs, not saying that we're not -- the commission not adhering to information, have other priorities. so for me to call you to another meeting is a repetition on the same finding that we kind of hashed over again. i understand there's supposed to be a budget maybe scenario attached with the findings. again, if the bottom line is it's good for us, the commissioners to recommend, i don't have a problem with recommendations, but i do have a little problem with once we start to tinker of what i consider in my definitions micromanagement. we went through the definitions, we went through the findings. the chief's office responded. we're adding to the budget, and i don't have a problem with that but mr. president, i'm going to ask you to maybe reconsider your request to formalizing the

committee, and simplistically, so i'd like to put this item or this person it bed, perhaps we can have a session by which we can adopt the secretary's minutes that would reflect the findings of the retreat, special meeting, and those priorities, recommendations can then be applied to the finance director and administration, and we can contemplate that all as we prepare it. i say this because i feel a lot of pressure as you, commissioners, on the timeline that's coming up with the recent announcement of the chief's retirement, with the charge that we have as a commission to go through the process of instructions, to interview. again, i think it is a timely concept of all of us to reflect what our concepts are appropriately to the new administration once we get there. but i, mr. president, need a little time to think about this

a little bit more about spending time in terms of this task. i again would recommend that you rethink your recommendation and simply adopt the minutes of the retreat so we can have that on paper and refer the matter of priorities to the finance director. perhaps if the commission wants numbers associated with that, you can do that, but i don't want to be repetitious in terms of -- i think it's good timing with the concept of a new chief coming on board, whoever he or she is, within the dialogue that we had, but i think we had more time. last finding, the president wanted these findings adopted in the last meeting we had in december -- there's only one meeting in december, mr. president, december the 12, and that's right around the corner.

sometimes i'm not good on deadlines, particularly if there's pressure that's there, and i'm not seeing the pressure that's due on the first meeting of december to be adopted. i think the timing is flexible enough to take this into the new year. not only do we have a new chief that's going to be on board, but colleagues, i want to remind you that we have elections of the commission on the first meeting in january . thank you very much for your time. >> president cleaveland: thank you very much, mr. vice president, and you're relieved of your duties on the subcommittee. i'm going to ask commissioner veronese to serve with commissioner covington and come back with a report when they are ready to come back to the commission with a report on their retreat's recommendations. do you accept that, commissioner veronese? >> commissioner veronese: mr. president, i do accept that, and as long as there's no deadline in early december because i will be out of town for the first week at least.

so i do accept that. i think it is important, especially in this transition to a new chief, that there is some information that is being handed off that is the -- speaking to the priorities of this new administration, this mayor, which is really where this information is coming for the transition. so i think this is an important time, and an important task. and one final item, i do have to be in court in five minutes, across the street. >> president cleaveland: you are here by excused so you can run across the street to your court. >> commissioner covington: thank you, commissioners. >> president cleaveland: commissioner nakajo, you had other comments? >> commissioner nakajo: yes. all of these comments are made in the spirit of working together with the department. so in terms of it, i just feel it's my responsibility to lay comment as well, but in terms of the spirit of working together, i've always been part of that, so i just wanted to make clear that i'm not trying to be a

rabble rouser on the sidelines. >> president cleaveland: thank you, mr. vice president, for your comments. is there any public comment on this item? seeing none, public comment is closed. madam second, next item. [agenda item read] >> president cleaveland: i believe you have a list of things, madam secretary, but i don't think unite to reiterate -- you need to reiterate those items unless there's commissioners that have any comments -- yes, commissioner covington? >> commissioner covington: okay. thank you. we have quite a volume here on the predesign planning study for

the training facility. i'd definitely like that to be on the agenda for our very next meeting. thank you. >> president cleaveland: okay. we can add that to the december -- november 28 meeting, right? so add it to the november 28 meeting. >>clerk: november 28? >> president cleaveland: yeah, that's our next meeting now. >>clerk: closed session? >> president cleaveland: no, that's not going to be a closed session. okay. item -- >>clerk: item 12, public comment on item 13. public comment on all matters pertaining to item 13-b below, including public comment on whether to hold items 13-b in closed session. >> president cleaveland: is there any public comment on this item? seeing none, public comment is closed. commissioners, what is your pleasure? >> commissioner covington: closed session, please. >> president cleaveland: commissioner covington made a motion to go into closed

session. do i have a second? >> president cleaveland: we will now go back into open session. we're back in open session on the fire commission meeting, and we did decide on the personnel matter and have upheld counsel's recommendations. do i have a motion to keep the conversations that we had confidential? >> commissioner covington: so moved. >> president cleaveland: do i have a second? all in favor. [voting] >> president cleaveland: thank you, and do i have a motion for adjournment? and i'm going to adjourn -- once i have the motion, motion from commissioner hardeman, second by commissioner covington, that we

will adjourn, and i'd like to adjourn this meeting in honor of three deceased firefighters: lynette breyer, sid diamond, and matt plescia. this meeting is adjourned in their honor. thank you.