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>> good morning and welcome to the committee meeting of the treasure island mobility management agency. our clerk today is here. let's take a moment to recognize

san francisco government t.v. and ensuring they are available to the public. >> item one, rollcall. [roll call] >> we have a quorum. >> can you please call the next item class. >> item 20 --dash item two --dash item two, approve the meeting minutes. >> are there any questions or comments from colleagues on the minutes for october 4th, 2018 costing none, we will open up for public comment on this item. public comment is now closed. colleagues, scene there are no questions or comments, do we have a motion to approve these minutes? we have a motion, and can we do this without objection, mr clerk , what do we have to call the roll? >> called a role. >> and we have a rollcall on the minutes?

>> [roll call] >> we have final approval. >> the minutes are now approved. mr clerk class. >> item three is recommended approval of the treasure island transit toll policy and affordability program. this is an action item. >> i do see that our director for the treasure island development authority, linda richardson, is here. thank you so much for attending. i also want to recognize bob beck who is the director of the treasure island developing authority. at this time, we have a presentation from the transportation authority on the new treasure island transit pass to a policy affordability program. >> , using -- there we go.

this is on, right? on the principal transportation planner. i want to present to you on a proposed toll policies along with the proposed affordability program and transit pass concept for treasure island. treasure island, as you know, is growing significantly into san francisco's newest neighborhood. from 600 households today, to 800 households in the future. a significant growth, and along with that growth, from the very beginning of planning for treasure island when the city decided to undertake this about 20 years ago now, transportation was the key challenge. several challenges, but one key challenge identified. those challenges include treasure island. it is only accessible by road off of the currently congested oakland bay bridge. there needs to be other alternatives to getting on and

off the island to support this neighborhood. especially transit services. we also need to be able to pay for those transit services and have a committed, permanent source of operating funding to support them. >> thank you. then affordability. we need to support, do all of this and support affordability for the low income families currently on the island and he will move onto the island in the future. the transportation plan that the city adopted to address these challenges challenges include a few key strategies that have been there from the beginning. first is to make walking and biking on island safe and to provide a significant amount of new transit services, expanded transit services on and off the island. the transit services will be paid for by sources including parking fees and fines, transit

fares and revenues at a congestion toll. it has two purposes. it is to be a committed permanent revenue source for the new transit, as well as the mechanism to discourage driving on the bridge during peak periods. with these strategies, we need to make two performance targets. one is a transportation performance target set out in the e.i.r. of half the trips on on the doors on the island being made by transit. the others we need to raise the revenues to cover the costs of the program. the legislature of california, the california state legislature , tooth -- in 2008, authorized this program. when they did that, the rationale was concerned about congestion and traffic impacts on the bay bridge. treasure island being a unique neighborhood in san francisco, in that it is uniquely situated, it is the only neighborhood that can be reached via the san

francisco oakland bay bridge, the city also acknowledged this when they adopted, in 2011, full development agreement, transportation plan and development agreement that laid out the transportation requirements and also obligations of the developer and of the transportation program. this board, treasure island mobility management agency, is a board designated to oversee this program, adjust it as it faces in, correct it, continuously improve it, and to you last took action in 2016. we are on a track, on a schedule to launch the program in 2021. this is the year that the first new homes are expected to be available for occupancy on the island. 2021. so we intend to launch the program, offer new services, be there from good -- day one. the other support of programs like the transit pass program,

affordability program from day one, and we need the revenues to pay for them correspondingly. along with these revenues that we will start with in 2021, the developer has a subsidy obligation as well. the capital contributions that the developer is making to build the infrastructure, capital infrastructure, is also an operating subsidy obligation from the developer of up to $30 million in installation to 4 million per year. the program depends on that subsidy in the early years to meet the revenue needs as the island phases and before build out. this is a timeline of some of the key milestones in the transportation plan development and adoption. the first plan was adopted in 2006. all the way back in 2006, and the goals and strategies you see here due date back to that plan.

a key here was 2011 when the development agreement was adopted with these obligations and performance requirements. today, we bring to you additional policies for your consideration. again, time to help us launch the program and its components in 2021 with the first new housing units. the build out of all 8,000 units is expected to happen over the course of 15 years. i mentioned the last action by this body was in 2016. at that time, the board adopted some policies regarding how the program would work. who pays, that is making sure that not just residence are subject to the congestion management toll. the toll rate structure, being a peak off peak structure, which direction, and he also called for the development of an affordability program. we have been working on that, as

well as the pieces that were not -- the rate themselves. and the hours of operation. there were also policy areas that you asked us to look into supplemental program funding. we have updates for you on that front as well today. i will go through and the deputy director will also discuss some implementation and other funding and aspects after i get through the transit pass program and other policies. in 2021, the transit services will start. we are pleased to say all three transit services will be able to start in 2021 under the concept that we proposed here. it includes the ferry. using a water taxi style service during the peak periods. a.c. transit services directly from the east bay at an hourly

headway, and of course, munimobile service which already exist today, the munimobile service will ramp off just ramp up as build up happens leading to a combined time of less than five minutes. it is a level of transit service called for in the 2011 plan that does make treasure island have that transit service level matching the most transit rich neighborhood. we want to achieve that. we have been conducting conditional outreach these are the dates. we have revised the policies that we presented in november, or he presented in october accordingly. some of the things that we have heard packed some businesses, developed a more specific

affordability provision targeted to the needs of businesses, so we do here recruiting low-wage workers, or any workers to work on treasure island, or in san francisco in general is a challenge. it is a challenge at treasure island has perceived as difficult to access and it's hard to recruit and retain workers. also current residence have costs that are unaffordable. transportation costs and the cost of a toll could increase the cost that i'm already facing living in san francisco. normal san francisco neighborhood destinations are not available on island. we do not yet have a school on treasure island though there will be, but not yet there will be a grocery store. those land uses are foreseen and planned for the future are not currently present on treasure island. what we all started we also

heard concern of wanting to make sure that developers and other people who are involved are contributing their fair share. some of the things that we have proposed to respond to those concerns, we have expanded the value of the affordability provision from what we proposed in october, and we have also sought to make it really flexible as possible to accommodate all of the different types of needs that we heard. so what we are proposing to you today is a stipend approach, which is intended to serve as cash for people. it is cash, both for businesses and residents to use to offset their expenses, whichever expenses are most important to them. so for residents, this would be of value of $300 per month with each current household. we are talking about current households. to leaseholders of 2018 or prior

that can be used to purchase transit passes, multiple transit passes, you could be used to pay your toll. so that affords multiple peak period toll trips per day. businesses could use that to further compensate employees for transportation cost, or for deliveries to account for increased delivery costs. we also did ask for input on another alternative which would be a zero mid-day told mac right that would simply be having no toll for any driver during the mid-day period between 10:00 am and 3:00 pm. some other things that we changed in the proposal since the last time around, in response to the concern our visitors contributing their fair share with swaps on the rates proposed for the weekend versus the weekday. and to respond to that.

two dollars on the weekend versus one dollar. we also change the weekend toll hours to make sure we are capturing the visitor trips and we reduce the thresholds required to earn additional total credits. there is a program whereby drivers can earn additional toll credits for transit use. each transit trip taken under this program, you earn credit towards a toll trip and it would take ten trips this time to earn the total credit versus 20, which is what we had proposed back in october. this is the rate schedule reflecting the current proposals of course, similar to the october proposal, there is no toll proposed during the evening period after 7:00 pm overnight, until the am am.

the peak periods match the peaks of the san francisco oakland bay bridge. another thing that we did present in october and still want to preserve, is the discount for drivers coming from the east bay, from oakland, to treasure island. they are paying a toll at the san francisco oakland bay bridge we retain that 50% discount for those travellers. this graphic illustrates the vision for the stipend program to be flexible means to offset the most important transportation expenses for households or business. $300 per month. over a five-year period for a current households and current island serving businesses. we need to do -- we acknowledged we need to do more work with businesses to refine the program and the offer for them.

what this would do -- what it would amount to for folks in terms of the offset expenses that it could offset is ten dollars a day. 300 on your average month. so more then two peak period trips a day. it is -- or more than two monthly transit passes at the full market rate, of course, the folks of low market rate units will be eligible for a discounted transit pass. in their case, the money goes farther and to peak period trips in off-peak trips dirt -- per day for a below market rate household plus more than one transit pass at the 50% off rate there is a resource cost to this expanded affordability program. it would be about 3 million per year for these five years that it's in place. we need to identify the resources to provide that.

but we will talk about that in the next parts of the presentation. we did ask for feedback on this alternative stipend alternative and the zero midday toll alternative. we did here feedback that folks would rather not pay the toll at all, and that perhaps current residence shouldn't be subject to that. along -- among those two choices , the preferred choice was the stipend approach versus the midday. the last component of the affordability program, there are some other pieces. one is the transit pass, which provides unlimited access to all of the transit operators serving the island. this would be available at a 50% discount to households in the below market rate unit, also available to employees. workers on the island through an employer program, at a discount.

additionally, folks can earn more toll credits through their transit use. workers would be eligible for this program as well. and the workers would also be eligible for this transit pass. i think i mentioned that we would work with employers to make that available at a bulk discount. residents are not obligated to purchase this pass but we would judge or they could continue using lifeline passes and any of the munimobile products they may use today. with this, i will handed over to cordova, deputy director for capital projects. >> great. thank you. i just wanted to touch on two items. one which is funding, not unlike what we have received to date, but also what we plan to pursue aggressively, and talk about the implementation schedule. that is an important item here. we are at a point where we need

to have decisions made in order to institute the transit service that we are looking for by 2021. the graphic that's in front of you shows program funding contributions to date. we have been successful in terms of receive and get allocated over $200 million of state and federal funding and money from the bay area toll authority. most of that is going to the island on and off ramps that we completed. the other portion are going to the southgate realignment and the reestablishment of the iat eastbound offramp on islands, and finally, the westside bridges component which is the retrofitting of the existing bridges that are seismically efficient. all of that is part not only of the larger transportation program, but includes a tolling infrastructure that we have to go ahead and provide for which is the underground conduits, the foundations, and what they call the tolling equipment and

cameras that we will have on the island that will need to be suspended from. you also can't discount the fact that the treasure island community development corporation is going ahead and improving the island to the tune of over $260 million in that regard. when you talk about that, you are close to half a billion dollars of the transportation improvements here that we are moving forward with on the island. i also want to make sure that you recognize that we are not done pursuing additional funds. what you have here is a list of the various programs that we will actively pursue funding from for the transit vehicles with very vessel purchases, the bicycle and pedestrian improvements, we also have the ability and we need to do further analysis regarding the potential to bond against future toll revenues. as mentioned at the transportation authority board meeting, we will look to ways to go ahead and see if we can tap

into the s.p. one funds that continue to be in play. so the next steps financially is to update and continue to work on the cash flow analysis here, to move forward with the toll system construction, the transit vehicle purchase and replacement , all of these have leadtime items associated with them that are important for the committee members to recognize. since we are approximately just about three years away from starting a tolling -- starting the transit work, which at the same time we will want to go ahead and start the tolling. we are three years away to go ahead and purchase vehicles and to enter into the appropriate agreements that we need to for all of the listed services. it is important that we make a decision now in terms of having a financially viable program that we can move forward with, which is what we presented to you today. the implementation schedule, some of the key items here, let's not forget that this right now is the policy approval.

we still have to work through the business rules associated with tolling. the operational standards, what's most important for us is the executing of operating agreements, in particular with a.c. transit, and with our ferry service provider. we have to go ahead and enter into a contract in the near future with what we are calling a tolling system integrator contract where they come in and take the physical equipment that's been installed underground and go ahead and put in the aboveground network and all of the computer systems associated with it. the reading just the readers, the cameras, et cetera. that is critical infrastructure here that we need to move forward with in that regard. we are targeting that three years from today. that is really our target. that is our work in close scheduling coordination with the treasure island development authority for all the construction that is currently ongoing right now in the island.

finally, we wanted to indicate our desires and our intent to continue to outreach to the community. rachel indicated that we continue to have our homework to do as it relates to the business community, and we will continue to do that and move forward to. i anticipate here in the next six months, by the summer of 2019, that we will be in front of the same committee as it relates to the business community and the stipend for them and what you see on your screen is us going back to that board. we visited with them last month and heard from the residence and heard from the board members. in particular, commissioner richardson who said go get more funding wherever you can. so we hear you loud and clear in that regard and that is our intent. finally, our recommendation is as stated in the memo, to approve the toll policies as they are outlined in the memo and in this presentation and the

affordability program as well as the transit pass program. so we are available for any questions that the committee may have. >> thank you, so much. i do have a number of questions and may be i will start with mr cordova since you are already at the podium. but i understand you went through the $203.45 million state and federal funding one-time contribution. it primarily went to the construction of the on and off ramp. to -- could you break down the $262.6 million t.i. c.d. contribution? >> let me go ahead and do that. as listed on the screen, there are multimodal improvements. the on island shuttles, the ferry terminal and the breakwaters which are major parts of the infrastructure. other transit improvements, the actual ferry terminal, the

terminal itself, the multimodal terminal, i will turn to bob if he has any other additional points that he wants to make in that regard. they are leading the effort to. do you want to add anything in that regard? >> i see. it is colour-coded. i did not notice that. the colours indicate the developer contribution to each of the transit improvements. it doesn't list the total amount i'm sorry. i thought this was originally the total amount cost. i thought the $30 million was the cost of building the ferry terminal and breakwaters. that is just a developer contribution. >> that is the total amount from what i understand and bob, correct me if i'm wrong in that regard. >> the developers are responsible for the total cost of developing the ferry terminal and breakwaters and that is what it represents. >> all of the numbers we are seeing here is the total and the contribution. there is no gap needed to be provided?

for example, on island shuttles, at 75,000. >> in that regard, they are obligated to not only purchase vessels, say for example, not vessels, but buses for a.c. transit, but they are obligated to make the contribution. we are working with them to make sure that we have the appropriate funding lined up and as listed on the slides they are , we will pursue other funding sources as we move forward. >> what would we be pursuing the other funding sources for? >> in particular, the transit vehicles themselves. the ones that are going to be purchasing from a.c. transit. there are pots of money there as listed that are ones that we will aggressively pursue which would help offset the developer contribution, which as a whole helps the entire program from a financial feasibility standpoint >> i think what would be most helpful for me to understand the

value of the tolling program, is to understand the total cost of each of these programs. and then what financing has already been secured. and then what the gap is and how we potentially plan on filling the gap and where the toll is considered part of that gap. >> the toll goes to pay for the operations and maintenance of the on island shuttle, a.c. transit service, as well as the ferry service. those are the three main drivers as it relates to the height or the level of the toll. there are other costs as it relates to administration, and the affordability program now does have a financial impact that we are proposing. it has a financial impact as stated in one of the slides of approximately $3 million a year for the $300 a month stipend

that we are proposing. >> i look at it a little differently. i look at it as we will be raising less for the operational cost for the shuttle and we will have to find other revenue sources to cover that gap if it is not coming through the toll. i don't see it as an expense. i view it as less revenue for these three options. so then the rest of the capital infrastructure is fully funded. >> yes. the capital construction for what you see on this chart here, we have the southgate realignment, the westside bridges and major ones they are. they are funded by the developer or by state and federal funds which some match from the developer and other others. >> i know that the plan is to work towards 2019 to put together a budget. but is it hard to approve a policy without understanding what the budget cost would be four the on island shuttle, a.c.

transit ferry, what would be most helpful for me is to view the total cost of operating. what we expect the tolling program to generate with these discounts and then what the gap would be and where we would search for the revenue to fund the gap. so that would be one. because the tolling program, you really want to understand the funding and what is critical and what the gap would be if the tolling program did not raise as much. i know in past presentations, you've also showed us the headway for the ferry and the shuttle and a.c. transit and it would be good to get that again. i think one of the difficulty is that i'm struggling with with the tolling program is that if we are going to have this program and we are going to

convince the one neighborhood that we need to generate revenue to fund all of this new transit, than the transit has to be incredible. it has to be above and beyond what the city currently gets and other neighborhoods and the ferry headway was not that impressive to me at the last presentation. i didn't think it would be so much better to choose the ferry over driving. i want to understand all of these options. again, i really am kind of being a broken record on this issue. i support mobility management and generating revenue from private vehicle transportation. i just continue to struggle with the fact that this is the only neighborhood that is paying for its transit. if it is, than it has to be completely above and beyond what every other neighborhood is getting. it is not clear that they will get that either via the a.c. transit or the ferry.

so that, i feel like i'm still struggling with that on a want to understand that. >> okay. i understand peer comments noted our intent or thought process has been that in order to not to have such a high toll in the early years and to have incremental service that works in conjunction with the development, we have established 30 minutes peak ferry service in that 2021 year. we've also established with a.c. transit our intent to have a 60 minutes peak service, and go ahead and increase the munimobile service to approximately 10-15 minutes in terms of turnaround. and so those are the initial operating years. we will call those first five years. as shown on the screen that we showed you, the intent from a build up perspective is some

very high and robust service with a.c. transit and with the ferry running all day, 15 minutes back and forth. we have tested that in terms of the ability to move quickly between the ferry terminal and the ferry building itself. we believe that we can go ahead and accomplish that. board folks, get them across the bay to san francisco within a 15 minute turnaround. we need to work with mooney in terms of establishing the buildout scenario, which would be 5-7 and half minute headways. definitely, those are very aggressive in that regard. we do have all of that information in our model. i have some more details of what the operating costs are for example, on the average for the first five years. i just need to get on my notes right now. >> could you remind me what we consider buildout to be quiet is it the full buildout? >> 8,000 units. approximately 2035, if i have my years correct.

>> at what point will we start to get to the quicker headways. i think 8,000 units is too late. >> understood. >> at approximately 2500 units is when we will really start to inscape -- increase the transit service. that is the critical mass in that regard. and then looking forward, increasing that incrementally as you get to a certain threshold of units. we have all of that information in our travel demand and financial model. >> for a.c. transit every hour, every 60 minutes, how was this determined. wasn't based on the survey of native residents going to the east bay from treasure island? it wasn't. but we are following up with a.c. transit to establish that 60 minute headway. the thought process was that when we looked at the development itself and the homes that would be sold in those first five years, the thought process was that when we looked

at that and ridership, we felt that 60 minutes would work. that is something that we need to continue to refine as you move forward. when he mentioned updating the cash flow model and taking a look at that in particular that service. >> it would be good to evaluate, and me beat their is not very many residents will be going to the east bay but it is good to know. i feel like once you are going every hour, you start to lose any ridership at all because it starts to feel like there's no option. i know that is not exactly the case but i mean mentally, unless you have a certain headway, residents will view it as unreliable. even if it is an option, they will not show up to use it because it is so infrequent. we just have to evaluate if it's worthwhile to even find something that is not coming every 60 minutes. i think it will be good to offer --dash to look at that. i am still very sceptical of the

munimobile headway. it has been so inconsistent on the islands today. i just want to express -- dose that is not on sfcta, but hearing from the residents, one of the big issues is the inconsistency --dash inconsistency of the headway on treasure island. i just wonder how we will guarantee our residents that it will improve with this new revenue. >> what we have done from a staff level, and we know that we need to continue to engage with sfmta to not only be ready for three years from now, but to go ahead and look at how we can improve the service starting now i know we have heard from the residence that there is some reliability issues and i that is something that our intention dose we will move from here and improve the service to the island even as it sits today. >> i know i mentioned this at another committee meeting or perhaps at a staff meeting, but our youth commissioner lifts on treasure island, and has a

scholarship to attend a catholic school in the sunset. she sets aside an hour and 45 minutes to get to the sunset. she does this every single day because she never knows if she will make it to school on time or if she doesn't provide that minimum amount of time to get to school. she would rather get there early than ever be late. she says that it's about 5050 about her being on time with an hour and 45 minutes which means half the time it takes her an hour and 45 minutes to get to the sunset. that just seems extraordinary for someone who lives in the city and is attending school in the city, and again, i'm not putting this on sfcta, but it feeds into the mistrust that you are hearing from the residents about wanting -- about paying an additional toll for improved services when they don't even trust the service that currently exists. so that's part of the mental

challenge of getting our residents to support a tolling system. >> understood. we heard it loud and clear first-hand. >> i'm sure you have. >> my reaction is we sympathize and we want to make sure that we follow up with sfmta. we have had that type of follow-up and we need to really go ahead and work through that. i understand the issue of trust and making sure -- we have frankly heard comments all year. ultimately, that is our job to get it done and implement it. that is why we are here today. we know it is challenging. i want to reiterate the schedule the schedule for us is critical that we get at least some type, that we get a policy approved now. i understand that there are some unknowns as it relates to moving forward, but once we have an approval capital put us in a much better position to clarify those unknowns and really move forward with the implantation of the transit service.

>> i guess its not clear to me why, his policy makers, we should put forward a policy when we have so many unknowns and why the agency can't move forward to provide us answers without approving a policy today. it feels very early to be approving something for 2021. so much is going to change. including how we transport ourselves. i think four or five years ago, we will -- we would have not been able to predict the impact of rideshare pic post --dash both positive and negative piggy feels very difficult for me to approve policies for something that may be implemented two years from now. with so much changing in terms of the development and transit options in san francisco. when you say it may be implemented, our charge is to implement it. within a three year period, we know we need to meet that deadline so we can have transit

services with the simultaneous and first housing units in the redevelopment. is going to be very difficult for us to enter into agreements with some of the agencies without some type of financial backing. >> how do you know that housing will be built by 2021? i have been on the board for eight years. i approve the entitlement for treasure island in june of 2011. not a single unit of housing has opened. i'm curious as to why we are expressing so much confidence about 2021. >> i understand your concern, and and frankly your frustration there had been delays with the development and getting the approvals and actually getting the work started. if you visit, and i know you have, commissioner the islands today is definitely an island under construction. the major infrastructure is being constructed as we speak today. the infrastructure being the new water line, sewer line, power

lines, et cetera, at all of the actual housing and preparing for the housing. i will ask bob back, if he doesn't mind to help address that. he has a lot more details in that regard. >> that would be great. the infrastructure construction i see. i just don't see the vertical construction. i'm not saying the vertical construction has to start today, but it seems very difficult to plan for something when we don't know when the vertical construction will begin. >> the first of vertical projects, the developer is working in the planning approval process. the program is entitled. it is a staff level approval. they are going through review of the first four projects on buena island. the projects that treasure island his developed authority will be developing with source to power shares on treasure island, we are also in communication with the planning department doing design review

of that project right now. the first project on the island is slated to break ground spring of next year. so those projects are very much in the pipeline and will be coming forward very shortly. >> how many units of housing? >> the first building on the island is 124 units. there are 280 units total on the island. our first project with source to the shares is 105 units. and we expect to break ground on that in 2020. >> what is the number of units that triggers the investment in the ferry terminal? >> the ferry terminal, that project they plan to bid it next

spring and start construction this coming summer. we will have to do construction over two construction windows so the project should be -- the ferry terminal should be completed by the fall of 2020. >> when does the ferry service need to begin? >> as. was describing, the current plan is to begin ferry service with the commencement of tolling, and a.c. transit service in 2021. >> regardless of the number of units built? >> it is expected we will have first occupancy at that time. everything is being sinker might just synchronized to first occupancy. >> let's say only 100 units are built by 2021. will be still open the ferry terminal? >> it is so we can still start with the peak hour services. >> regardless of the number of units.

>> regardless of the number of units occupied. >> okay. it just feels like there are too many unknowns. 200 units, it is great but it is not significant. not enough for me to start a tolling program on treasure island. it does not feel like there will be a mobility issue at that point. we will not start clogging the bridge with the opening of 200 units. i understand that the goal of the mobility management program is to raise revenue for the increased public transit program the general fund should pay for it. just like we do for every neighborhood we build out. i understand that once we hit in the thousands, is important for us to have a mobility program, have the increased transit, but when we are talking about 229 units, it just feels really

difficult to think about a program of this magnitude for the residents of treasure island >> the one thing i would point out, the tolling program is part of the defined project. it is not a mitigation measure for the project but it is part of the baseline assumptions for the development of the island. so it is an essential element for us to implement at a point in time. in terms of the services that are described, the a.c. transit service is an obligation to start service with first new occupancy as well. and so we will need to have revenue to help subsidize that a.c. transit service. also, as new residents come to the island, we want to have a framework in place that this is understood to be part -- the toll is understood to be part of

life on the island. to start bringing a large number of new residents to the island without a toll would make it much more difficult to implement >> that is a good point for new residents. have we done any surveying on when visitors come to this island during the weekdays and how they support our small businesses like the wineries and cafés quality we have a sense of what time these visitors come that support businesses and how many per our? -- how many per our class. >> my concern is small businesses on the island that we worked so hard to attract. whether they are cafés, wineries , and of course, they need visitors to support those businesses, as well as a development of a community on the island. we are wondering if we start to do some survey work in terms of seeing when cars come on the island and how many per hour and

when they generally come. >> we have issued out a survey in november to ask those questions and to learn. there is a pretty diverse range of businesses out. there are visitors serving uses like the restaurants. is a few restaurants. there are production and client serving businesses who do deliveries and to ship supplies and things like that. there are these destination uses like the flea market. we have issued out a survey asking, what types of travel does your business attract most closet employees, is a visitors, as is a customers? what times of day? what transportation expenses does your business feel the most and we are summarizing those results now. we do acknowledge that we need to do more work with the businesses. that is why although we propose a stipend level on the resident

side, we have learned a lot more from the resident so far and we need to understand those survey results and refine them with the businesses to propose a stipend level. >> is just difficult for me to approve these proposed total hours and rates when i don't have that information. >> commissioner, you did had one question related to the cost side, at i want to answer that right now. my apologies for not having this in front of me. the first year, and i want to be create -- correct, the first year we are anticipating $10.4 million of costs related to a.c. transit, related to the ferry service being established. the staff cost associated with that and the affordability program is now included in that cost because that cost is approximately 3 million per year as we indicated. about 10.4. then it ramps up with any five-year period to approximately $60 million a year at that time, the thought process as they will be

approximately 1500 units that will be built in that five-year period and then, depending on the development and the pace of development, for example, our projections show within another five years, our costs will be approximately $30 million a year for all of the transit services. so i wanted to give you some information in that regard. we can give you much more detailed information in terms of our cost model and the corresponding revenue associated with the tolling in that regard. okay? >> okay. that is helpful. i just still come back to the same point that i struggle over. this is the only neighborhood that we are making the residents pay for their own increased services. we are not doing this to shipyards, we are not doing this to others. we are somehow paying for the increased transit to this neighbor -- these neighborhoods,

despite the tremendous growth. i know the ferry is a completely different animal, at absolutely want to support the development of the ferry services. again, you come back to this philosophical question of how do we raise revenue for public services? who pays for it? is it through our property taxes , developer impact fees, general fund dollars which come through a range of different sources? or do we specifically tax our residents to pay for this increased service? if we do, we provide them service far above and beyond what any of our san francisco residents, who currently don't pay any tolling fee to come downtown, i would feel so much more comfort if the state passed a mobility management permit for san francisco so we can start to explore a downtown congestion management fee so everyone is paying and coming to the downtown area. this is another unknown.

i keep harping on the same point i apologize for being so repetitive. at that point, i would feel very comfortable with this program. but it's another unknown for us as policymakers. i just don't feel comfortable supporting and approval of a policy today, that this is helpful. i don't see why we can't continue to move forward with flushing out a budget so we can have a better understanding of the cost benefits of this program and what we will lose if we don't have it, and continue to explore other revenue sources to pay for some of the service. again, i continue to think there should be no off-peak toll between 10:00 am and 3:00 pm. should be completely free. i still want to see a subsidy for existing residents and i have to understand how it will impact how it will be coming on the island to make their

businesses viable on treasure island. finally, i will say, i think the 50% discount on the transit pass is not enough. i think $75 is still a burden to low income households and i'm not sure what we can do about that dollar amount. i know the ferries are significantly more expensive and that's why that cost exists, but i just don't know how someone is going to come up with $75 unless it's broken out week by week, which i'm not sure if that's an option. and then my final question is for you, we have a free meeting for youth program. will this extend to treasure island residents, and will ferries be included in that? i see you shaking your head. >> i think that has to be -- >> i'm sorry. i think that has to be part of the program. >> the free munimobile for youth extensive treasure island but it is munimobile only. we are right now, we don't have

an agreement with the ferry operator that the free for youth would extend to ferries but that is something we can include in our discussions with them. we haven't so far, but we could. >> i would like to see that be part of the free munimobile for youth discount past. i think we need to be providing our youth every opportunity to get to their afterschool programs, and to their schools. that should be no barriers for young people going to the programs and schools that we want them to go to. seeing no other questions -- oh. commissioner yi? my apologies, commissioner. >> thank you. you raise some good points and in fact, some of the points you raised, i was a little uneasy with in thinking about this in

terms of why we are doing a special toll for an area of san francisco when we don't toll anywhere else. although i would say that we are doing some extensions that we are not actually getting any new services. it is the same strain. does train. it is always full anyways. i am also on the golden gate bridge board and one of the things that i realize is that the toll from the bridge supplements the other transit to alleviate the traffic going to the bridge, and so much of the funding from the toll helps pay for the ferries, and also the

golden gate transit. so i kind of get that part, but the question that you raised, chair kim, is probably the money that we collect from munimobile, for instance, from passengers, does not pay for the real cost. so that raises a question for me then why are we asking the residents on treasure island to pay extra, and why are we not asking the city to also supplement some of this? i kind of get what this plan is trying to do. yes, we are trying to get fewer people off of their vehicles, and it makes sense in certain areas. i don't know if treasure island makes sense right now.

we are facing the same situation with city college. the thinking is let's get the students off their cars because this is coming from mort university his east -- university students. they go to school and they don't work. and most kids are working and they need to get from one place to another real quickly. so one of the things i was concerned about is i believe that the plan, what do you call it cost. >> stipend. >> stipend for five years. >> and after that it ends. >> yes. i call it a winning period of one year. a total of six years. it is in reaction to some of the comments we heard. >> if we do this policy and this

plan, i really would like to see some action taken to extend forever, may be not the $300 stipend to, but certainly free passes. because right now, the way we are trying to get off the vehicles, let's punish these people in treasure island. i'm really concerned about the people living in the affordable units. rather than do that, can we reverse our thinking a little bit in terms of what is the incentive we could give them? and to get them off the vehicles for some people. i think the incentive would be to give them free passes in terms of transportation. they can make a choice. they could either take public transportation for free with a low income, or if