in a more suburban location there is an old rule of thumb a grocery store requires a population of 10,000 to 30,000 people within a one to three mile area to support the grocery. that is a different scale. we found that in san francisco in our denser neighborhoods about a half-mile usually covers it. that is why we have the circle at a half mile. there are a few more factors of why we consider this a challenging retail location then i will go more to the demographics. this is a largely unproven retail location. we talked to brokers earlier this year for a different progress. they reported the lack of foot traffic, lack of location with a

critical malice every tail, unwelcoming pedestrian environment, congestion, construction, ongoing construction all relate to this being a challenging location. in addition. the rents in the area are relatively high compared to other places in the city. all of that together makes it challenging for any type every tail. with that i will go to the demographic to illustrate why we did agree that the current and projected population does not support an additional grocery store at this location. what you see on this slide is the current and projected population and job in the transbay area. the most significant source of demand in this area is

office-based employment. for a couple different jobs we talked to retailers and brokers. this is an office-based employment neighborhood. that drives the retail that is currently available which is largely convenient space with serving those employment uses. the area i is -- dominated by te workers. they might pick up food to take home. they are unlikely to do major shop and get on bart or transbay bus to go home. [please stand by] squires as you.

[please stand by]

>> i want to go into the households. the types of households that are predominent. this compares the market areas. the majority of households of people living alone. there are few people with children in the area. 50% of the people living alone in the neighbourhood. moving on to 8. we also have about 60% of the residents are between the ages of 25 and 44 years old. that is 60% of the residents in the category. and again, there are few

children. there are 20% of houses without children. it is likely the households are made up with couples without kids. we have an area that is made of young adult single and young couples. the demographic is more likely to eat out a lot. they are more likely to get takeout and they are less likely to do a lot of grocery shopping and cooking at home than other groups like families with children. so i have the slide on demographics and then we will finish up.

this one shows median household income in the areas we talk about. it is $179,000 in the area. it is double that of san francisco as a whole. so the prevalent household type is young, living alone or a couple without kids. and very affluent. the demographic we will look at when they think of relocation. and again, this is a demographic that is relatively doing more shopping online than other demographics. there is evidence of this in the area. the buildings have lockers or rooms for delivery. they have services for packages and delivery. and that is to accommodate all the online shopping that people

are doing and the delivery that is happening. so just to wrap it up, in summary, we do not believe that the retail conditions in this area support a second grocery store at this time. and this is because the most significant source of demand or retail is dominated for office workers. for the residents there, the demographic is a high income, single or couple demographic, and that number is growing with the influx of new high income households, there would be increased buying power in the area. that does not necessarily translate into increased demand

for retail space or for groceries because of changes in shopping habits. the group that is doing more of online shopping than other groups including groceries. the other part of that is also that all americans, but particularly younger adults and high income individuals are increasingly eating out rather than shopping and cooking at home. i think with that, i am done. >> okay. thank you. and we can answer any questions. before we answer questions.

>> madam chair. >> good afternoon. i am a long time member. and i did not support the motion that was approved. i oppose the recommendation. it is clear from the presentations we heard and the material that the developer had obligations. the developer had no obligations under the terms of the

agreement. a at the meeting, the members of influence in attendance, the need for a grocery store in this neighbourhood, and i was thinking that maybe the way forward with this issue would be to change the focus on it. i think the problem with the current situation is that the grocery store search we have been talking about here today was very restricted. it was restricted in terms of time and scope. in terms of time, basically they have been looking for a grocery tenant during the construction period in just the last couple of years.

i moved into my place in 1990. it was over ten years after i moved in that we saw a full service grocery store anywhere in the neighbourhood. and now there are several. and it is wonderful. but it took time to develop. and i think this as the neighbourhood develops as i heard from the speakers, this neighbourhood will become more attractive to a grocer. the other way that it was restricted was -- just to one storefront. if we expand to the entire neighbourhood, i think it will permit more properties that could be considered by a grocery tenant. my suggestion is if they wanted to take this on to have the staff prepare marketing, they

would engage a retail consultant. all the vacant properties, the future properties -- and maybe in conjunction with the community. and work a property outside the project area within the neighbourhood itself. that is my suggestion. thank you. >> i will be quick. i have three minutes. i would like to make a statement. before there was an oci, before there was a redevelopment agency, going way back. i am sick and tired of being sick and tired of the agencies, the workers -- you don't know the real history. the real history going way back.

[indiscernible] th [indiscernible] i am sick and tired of all the newcomers coming here and talking and spending all the money. you should talk about the trends of the population? no. none of that is in the demographics. you go back and tell all the developers that ace is back and on the case. i looked at the rules way back.

i am bringing back and what do you think about that. i will say this, even to the mayor and the whole community, if we don't go way back and see what happened, [indiscernible] you are all developers. we will have to pitch money. bring it back to where it was. if you don't... nobody wants to talk about

issues. it gets emotional sometimes. what about us? okay. i get excited sometimes. i have to go back to my peers. my grandchildren. nobody is worried about them. you go back in the day. let's go way back. >> hi. i am a homeowner in the district in the east. and i am talking today because i think most of us in the neighbour, the people who have been in the neighbourhood for a

while, new residents too, feel as if we have been abandoned by the development in the area. that no matter what the data is and how it is characterized, we are one of the most dense if not the most dense districts in san francisco. we are a new district. we are not a community. there is no way we can build community if we do not offer the kind of retail that we need to service our community. not everybody is ordering online. we are not going out to eat. there are no places to eat after 4:00 because of the neighbourhood is seen as this -- it caters only to employees. it is difficult to tell the retail. it is frustrating to see the designs, get excited about a supermarket that will go in. i was following the development of this going from 25,000 square

feet to 13,000 square feet. and people saying that they can't fill the vacancy. i don't understand, after market closed, 10,000 retail space goes. there is no parking in the space. they are opening up. i don't understand why in my neighbourhood which is a wonderful place to live, a place that has -- there are people who are very high income and there are people of low income housing. i am proud of that. we are the neighbourhood who stepped up out of all the neighbourhoods in san francisco to provide housing. for all people. of all kinds. and i would like to know how people in housing will go shopping. my neighbour who owns a property over $3 million can't even shop there. he complains. we joke about it. you have to take a mortgage out.

and that's is just not right. in order to build community, we need store fronts. we need people to make a commitment to us. the commitments they make and the design to bring retail here instead of throwing up their hands and saying -- people are staying online and are not going into the community. we don't go into the community because we don't have retail. and we are a desert. there is no way we should be a desert. we should be a vibrant community that we see in all those plans and dreams that we were waiting to be fulfilled. thank you very much. >> hi. i am a member of the ociicuc and i was part of the selection committee. the landscape has changed since the original bid in 2014. hopefully the profile brought

out -- i would like to point out that the original offer on the table was for whole foods at 25,000 square feet. 10 parking spaces two blocks from the grocery store. that is an easy offer to turn down. so aside from that, i have two major concerns. one is that this is the last best chance we have to get a full grocery store. and the remaining properties, blocks 2, 4, and 12 are not viable. it is a high end grocery store and it is expensive. it does not meet the needs of the residents, particularly the 35% of those who are in units. regardless of your household income, everyone needs to buy paper towel, toilet tissue. it doesn't really matter. some of the arguments made here today are exactly ones that are

made nine years ago when i moved into the neighbourhood. to get a grocery store. more housing is wonderful. adding housing doesn't mean you have a neighbourhood. we need the basics and that starts with a grocery store. i would ask the commission to think about the mandate and its responsibility to the neighbourhood. if there is anything within the oci power to help build a neighbourhood, whether finding a new location for a grocer, or susidizing rent for a short time, i would strongly encourage you all to do so. thank you. >> commissioners, thank you for the opportunity to speak. i am the vice-chair. at a meeting last thursday evening, we voted to oppose the leasing to pursue a grocery store in this space. there are three reasons why.

one, we disagree with the need for a store -- the fact that retail has changed so much is -- these are not just convenience items we can do without. i want to advocate for a store. there are no other options. sometimes we can't live things to the free market. the free market can't just make a space. we need to look at the only few viable spaces that we have and work with those in order to provide a grocery store for the community. we are as a community really bought into the long-term vision of building a pedestrian friendly neighbourhood. it has been a long-term vision. almost all of the committee

members have been serving 10 years. two of us are 4 years. we have a long-term commitment to create a community and it is a slow process. we are getting near the end. we cannot start to abandon core elements now that we are getting near the end. i have two recommendations. one is related to the obligation. they take the financial statements get the investors to invest. it is a risk. things change. it is reasonable, they could go back to the investors and say sorry, the retail market changed dramatically. we are have to pay $400 per square foot to get a grocery space. sorry about that. something worked out much better than the per for ma stated. some things were worse. i would recommend that the

commission just hold related to the obligation and have them say that to the investors. the other option is that the city says we have an obligation, particularly to the people in affordable units, many of which will be families, the units that are not built, many of them are more than one bedroom units. and job development dollars could be applied to grocery stores to create a very, very important amenity for people of all income levels moving into this high density neighbourhood. i encourage you not [indiscernible] thank you. >> good afternoon. i am the executive director of

the east benefit district. i just wanted to step up because i think the district works tirelessly to listen to the neighbourhood and represent the neighbourhood. i can also say there are several board members standing behind -- or sitting behind me. and the cbd has not taken a position on block 8 or related to the grocery store. what i can say is that they have been a partner in the neighbourhood. they have been very engaged. they have been a supporter of the street team, a work experience program for homeless folks to get a new start and change lives. we want what is best for the neighbourhood. we will work with other property owners to see a district that helps strengthen the economic base that currently exists. we, through our work in tracking vacancies and activating retail spaces understand the complex challenges and costs of doing

business in san francisco. some of the ideas this afternoon, we are committed to see the ground floor be active. we do have a high density of office workers, but pushing 15,000 residents right now that have little happening on weekends and evenings. it is a tremendous challenges and forces people to make the very decisions, we are compounding the online isolation we are talking about. i genuinely would ask to trust the commission and the process and the staff. we will work to bring something to the neighbourhood something will serve the neighbourhood that is growing rapidly. i would encourage you to look at the median and not the mean income. there are super high value

properties, i would say a fair number of people, even people in housing do not make anything near. thank you. >> no more speakers? >> okay. i will refer for questions. commissioner? >> thank you. i would like to thank everyone who participated in presenting to the commission. i thought they were very thoughtful presentations. i have received some of them previously and had a chance to think about this. i do have some questions, but i want to say at the outset, i am inclined to vote no on the staff

recommendation. i can repeat a lot of what has been stated here, for members of the public, for folks who have written. but suffice it to say that these are the words that i will express, i don't live in the area. i live in the closest commercial corridor is heartland. the area is not the same as it is today. it has changed a lot over the years. the grocery store is the heart and anchor of a lot of what happens on the street. and which grows around the grocery store is exciting.

everything from retail to, you know, a wine shop. there are a lot of different varieties. i have a vision as a commissioner that transbay would be as vibrant as the heights. it would be a fun place for a san francisco person would want to go to eat. based on all of that and because we have a growing population of affordable households coming in, we want to creation. i don't want the area to be a financial district south of... there has been a fabulous job of what i consider -- one would consider the normal good faith efforts. not the good faith efforts that i think, i tried to impart

directly. not in the complexity that i would envision -- that i would see as a commissioner when we came to this place. the approval or disproval, the release of the condition of the commission item, it is precisely because i was chair of the commission and i would foresee that we would have the conversation at the staff level and i wanted it at the commission level so i could have the members public speak to us, the way that they are. i do have perhaps an option, if you will. not an option but an alternative. i want to ask some series of questions. what i heard in the presentation is that the space was anticipated to be split level

initially. did i hear that correctly? >> that is correct. >> was that designed -- was that design vision based on something that the developer came up with? or was it as a result of model? >> the transbay -- the city design. it is to better activate the ground floor space. we took our experience and observation of the market that split level with one space, one floor, and an option for the design -- >> okay, was there thought given to the challenges that you felt along the way with the long list of grocers to think about it a

little differently? have an experimenting view. the concept of a pop-up or a testing of the market. i agree in my experience having worked as we mentioned at the airport and understanding how retail is thought about, beverage opportunities, there is a question of what comes first. i understand that grocers could be conservative, if you will, but there has to be incentive, i think to draw them to the area. did you consider other creative alternatives? >> we have considered creative alternatives as well. we will consider it going forward. we will give updates.

we are considering concepts that offer a different type of offerings within a larger concept. an example of this would be the -- the market. they would account for the space. they realize the business model was not feasible. they pulled out of the space and with the concept. the original proposal in 2014, it was also -- they envision a proposal that it would be innovative concept. we continue to explore because

we really feel that the offerings, it is beneficial to the neighbourhood as well as the residents that are coming. >> can you tell if you know what prompted -- in an area that had so many concerns? >> i don't know the answer to this. i can't comment on this location. i do know that [indiscernible] in 2014, we had conversations with the representatives. and you know, despite what is going on in the market, they

repeatedly said the space was not adequate and there was not enough parking. specifically, they had requested 75 parking spaces. again, in 2014, and subsequently, this was a comment i kept repeating. >> thank you. i have a question. the staff, did the consultants talked about the grocers? >> i believe our consultant talked to some. what we did is we talked to the broker. and we got a lot of feedback. >> hi.

we did not speak with the grocers. except we on one location. we did speak to the grocers who are in the area. we spoke with the other grocers about the parking availability. specifically about the location dynamics for them. and again we spoke with the location specialist who had previously working with trader joes about what they look for in their location. >> okay. thank you commissioner. >> so just in listening, reading the articles, in an effort of

taking the job of a full grocery store, i do commend you for that. i also think about of what we know, all we know is never all there is to know. and personally as a native of the city for over 70 years and coming up before the redevelopment, coming up before the renewal and all of this wonderful work that is going on and creating housing which is to me just great. it is wonderful. however, we don't want to create a shelter that leads people into despair when you don't have

affordable groceries. and what i am also wondering if there is a possibility to even speak to the store and ask them to lower some of their costs. how do we do this with having people in our community that would not consider the residents around them. it is a little bit disappointing that the footage is as small as it is. not needing what is needed. and so with all the redevelopment that is coming forward in that we are doing, if we don't try as was suggested to seek a wider way of searching to meet the needs of a full grocery

store, what is going to happen to all of the other areas that are being redeveloped? i believe you have done your work. is there something that you missed? and that is my question. that is my question. is there something that you missed? is there someone out there that knows exactly what could happen to satisfy the needs? that's my comment. >> i have a couple of questions to traders joes. i will put them in two parts. the store is about 28,000 square

feet. which falls into the category to talk about the size of most traditional. we are looking at three categories for groceries. the traditional format. all of which have a minimum square footage of about 25-30,000 on the minimum basis. to the maximum of about 70,000 square feet. in san francisco, specifically, the trader joes is close to 28,000. the whole foods is close to 40,000. the safeway on jackson is the smallest of those. closer to 25,000. and the safeway on king street is closer to 35,000. so from the onset, the exact square footage here is under the square footage that would be terribly looked at for a -- for

the normal format grocer. there would be a transition into the next category which is under a specialty grocer. we covered that with the conclusion that it was the need in the particular area. the last category is the european market. we addressed that. we need to add the scope. the residents of the neighbourhood do travel down to the ferry building to shop on the weekends. there are a couple of components how people are walking 10-15 minutes to get their needs. coming back to your question, as it relates to creating our neighbourhood synergy and addressing more -- addressing the community aspect, there is a need in the neighbourhood as

well for food and beverage operators and services. so that can be served by dinner. you can venture from anywhere to experience this. >> thank you. and just at the end, one of the things i think about when creating something we look at some of the problems, the things we tried to move away from, and that's crime, despair. and when you have low income affordable housing and you have those that can afford it, everything, it is no problem, the food, everything, they have

the quality of life. we want everyone to enjoy that same quality of life. and when it doesn't happen, it goes to crime. to avoid that, we would do everything we could to look for that full service grocery store where we can put it. and perhaps, someone said that consider -- just looking somewhere else -- instead of the small space would be a two storey building. maybe there is something else that could happen. >> making reference, again our

initial proposal included the grocer. we thought the grocer we had proposed [indiscernible] we thought it would be a great amenity. it would be a comprehensive effort. the property owner has made similar efforts. [indiscernible] they have not been able to secure one as well. it is not just our property. it is other properties as well that have experienced this.

>> thank you. commissioner? >> some of them did not do their homework. you came to us with a plan. you were chair and i remember this conversation and this is what we fear is that people come in and they tell us what they think we want to hear and the homework is not done. later they come back and they say, oh, we can't do this. when we have already told a community what to believe in. there was going to be a grocery store. let's not forget when i was a kid, it was empty at 5:00. but it grew. now, we have places like

woodlands coming into an area where there wasn't anybody. there are people who will be growing the area. i think what we have not done and i don't think is a good faith effort is what type of grocery stores. i see the list of high end grocery stores. i don't see -- where is grocery outlet? where is rainbow groceries? where are the other co-ops that can provide products at reasonable prices. even if you have $175,000 that is stated here, it is so high that you can't, you know, you have to save money. it is good quality food. i don't see those particular places outreached to.

and then we have the price. i mean if the rent is, you know, you can get the places to come in. they will show up. you have to make it appealing for them. so i think you need to go back to the drawing board and take a look at the pricing is for the rent and the tenants improvements. and look at some of these other co-op type of grocery stores. if you make it appealing for them, rent wise, it is going to grow. and i don't want us to be here five years from now when you have 400,000 people living there and you have whole foods coming banging on the door. it is too late.

you had your chance. you weren't there for the community when they needed you the most. and now you want to come back. it is abo i would suggest go back and talk and be more creative and talk to some of the other grocery stores that are not as high end as the list that you have presented to us. and take a look because you came to us with an idea and we voted on the idea. and now that the idea has change changed,. why should the community suffer? and why should we be part of the situation where -- i don't like the language. the commission shall approve -- i'm sorry, we have a voice.

and there is a process. and we don't believe the process has been complete, then we could vote no. so the fact that it is even in here bothers me. it is a threat to us. i am not threatened by anybody. so, you know, i want you to do well. i want the community to do well. i want people to be happy. but i just think we have done enough homework. it was not done in the front end. it provided a space that now is said to be too small. we have to look at other creative options. think about lowering the price. and the rents we offered for the space are significantly lower than the rest of the market. i mentioned in my presentation, it is 75 per square foot. the market is $75 and above.

they are $90 to $100 a foot. there is a reduced rate. we do care about this. so we have been creative. in addition to that, in the market, we are offering the additional improvements. >> i think related it is a resourceful company. i think you can find some options. and i think businesses, grocery stores that come in, you know, understand there is a lot of people who work there -- even if you are a grocery store, do a happy hour special.

you are going through the east bay between this hour and that hour. you get a 10%, 15% off. whatever. there are options. i don't think they have been played out. i would not support this. >> thank you. okay. you know where we are going here. my question or statement is that we as a commission have the commitment to the community. the commission of community investment and infrastructure, if you look at our name. we are offering the low market homes. we as a commission, what are the developers doing to support

affordable market tenants or homeowners? we need to provide for the community. it may not be a full service grocery store. we are building the affordable homes, where will they go? they don't have cars because there is no parking. some of the units are a lease. i am concerned about where we are going and our commitment to the community. and our commitment to the neighbourhood. the community that we want to create. that's one. and then, we have a responsibility and fellow commissioner have indicated that maybe we need to go back and look for more creative ways.

people want an experience. they want dining experience or whatever it is. they don't cook at home, i guess. because they can go out and eat. essentially they would want to cook at home. there are no groceries around, so maybe they are going out. maybe the delivery is popular because there are no grocers that you can walk. i feel like there is a trend coming up here that grocery stores and developers need to look at where is this going. it is almo people -- [indiscernible] it is because there is a need right now in the transbay. what kind of community are we

doing if all we have is the woodlands. i can affo't afford to shop the. i am more concerned about the homeowners. what are we doing for them? we have a responsibility. so i would think that, you know, those who do the research on trends, there could be maybe a greater grocery shopping experience. the population will grow. and we need to look at the trends of the population that is growing five years from now. ten years from now. so i right now, i am at a point of either suspending with the

resolution right now. you know what the vote is going to be. it sounds like, right from my fellow commissioners and perhaps come back with alternatives. and i don't know, just from 25,000 square feet to 12,500. and so that's what i would suggest. what we can do for a resolution on the table. and what is the appropriate way of handling this. >> well, the commission has a

number of options. i think you are suggesting by referring to suspension, a continuation of the matter, and asking for the developer to present additional information. so that is one option. you have the option to disapprove the staff proposed resolution which is based upon the contractual obligation that the agency has with the developer. and presumably the commission disagrees with the staff conclusion that there was good faith made despite the comments of the commission made. or of course you could approve because you find that there was adequate good faith efforts made

under the circumstances. so i think in particular, with regard to the suspension -- we will have a continuation of the matter to a future date which you should set if that is your inclination. >> so our motion would be to continue this matter to either the next meeting -- next meeting is january 15th. i don't know if we have time. a future meeting that is appropriate for the time. we need to have a motion to continue. >> yes. >> i need a motion to continue this matter. i would like to make a motion to

continue the matter for 60 days. and during the period of time, the executive director to work with the developer following up with not all of the grocers that are listed, but a sampling. i would like to hear more directly from them on what gets them to a yes. i would invite -- rather than invite, i would recommend or direct that staff also think of reaching out to rainbow groceries and other grocers. i am sure i could come up with a list of others eventually. and the grocery industry. think about entrepreneurs, think

about it creatively where you can give individuals business who may want to create a new or different grocer-type experience that envisions the online components -- a courtesy component as well as the traditional bread and butter and egg and milk, grab and go necessities of everybody's needs. >> this is a long motion. >> would the 60 days start january 1st? between now and the end of the year? it will be hard. january 1st? >> okay. i am wondering even if 60 days is enough. that there be 90 days.

unless you think 60 is better? >> from a staff perspective, more is better. if we can get 90 days, that would be great. >> could we say 60 days -- 90 days with a report in 60 days? >> wonderful. >> sure. >> an amendment to the 60. >> we propose to postpone or suspend it until 90 days starting january 1st. with a report 60 days starting from january 1st, it is acceptable. >> okay.