>> into the republic for which it stands to, one nation under god, indivisible god with and justice for all. >> commissioner, i would like to call role. >> please do. [roll call]

>> commissioner, you have a coram, also with us tonight is the chief of police, william scott appeared to be have a representative -- >> he just stepped out. >> director henderson is here, but temporarily mr hawkins was -- will be presenting the department of police accountability. >> ones -- welcome to the wednesday, february six, 2019 police commission meeting. we have a very full agenda tonight, especially in closed session, dealing with disciplinary matters, and litigation matters. we will be limiting public comment to two minutes. without further ado, please move into line item number 1 pick adoption of mutant -- of minutes. >> actions for the meeting of january ninth and 16, 2019. >> so moved.

>> second. >> a public comment regarding our minutes? hearing on, public comment is closed. please call the next time. >> i22 his consent calendar. receive and file action. police commission report of disciplinary action, fourth quarter, 2018. >> commissioners, you have this in your pocket. this is a consent item. are there any questions or concerns? do i have a motion class. >> so moved. >> do i have a second class. >> second. >> any public comment? hearing none, please call the next line item. >> reports to the commission discussion -- discussion. chief's report. crime trends, provide an overview will fences occurring in san francisco, significant incidents, chief dr report will be limited for a brief description of the significant incidents, commission discussion will be limited to determining whether to calendar any of the incidents the chief describes for future commission meetings. major events provide a summary of planned activities and events occurring since a previous

meeting. this will include a brief overview of any unplanned events or activities occurring in san francisco, having an impact on public safety. commission discussion on unplanned events, and activities the chief describes will be limited to determining whether to calendar for a future meeting. community engagement division highlights provide an overview of recent activities coordinated by the commission -- by the community engagement commission. >> before we go into the report, we had a request that takes a portion of that off the calendar because the documents weren't ready. is that correct class. >> yes. >> great. ♪ good evening, chief. i know you just came back from the fire scene so you have a lot to report. >> good evening, vice president, commissioners and director henderson. i will start. and there was a three alarm fire today, and the san francisco department assists the fire department with controlling and evacuations. it was on gary.

it was about a one block radius that is still being cordoned off. so we have a number of people displaced from their homes, the fire department got it under control after a couple of hours. a gas line got disrupted by third-party. that caused the fire to go off, as far as we know. luckily no one was injured. a lot of personnel out there to get things,, as much as we could get it back to normal with other city partners and city families. mayor breed went out and did a press conference to update the public. i have just returned from that. it was good collaboration as always with city families and fortunately no one was injured. >> as far as crime, good news to report, again, overall, we are down 20 7%. i know it is still early in the year, and i always say that, but it is still good where we are. violent crime is down 18%, and

homicides are down 33%. we had six this time of year last year, and we have four currently year to date. our gun violence is down 60 3% from where it was this time last year, although it is still early in the year, that is a significant decrease. we are down from 19 this time last year, we had seven shootings year to date. overall, our robberies are down 14%, assaults are down 26%, and as far as property crime, there is a total of 28% reduction in property crime, which includes a 32% reduction in car break-ins at this time of year to date. good news to report. we will keep working with the community to hopefully keep it going in the right direction. we have had to fatal shootings year to date, and 50% of our

homicides are firearm related. again, we hope to do some really good work. we couldn't do this without the community. i will keep emphasizing how important it is to have those partnerships with the community to keep crime going in the right direction. we have a one traffic fatality over the past week, and it happened on saturday, february 2nd, at six in the evening, at folsom and 22nd street in the richmond district. it involved a pedestrian, 38 years old, was walking outside of the crosswalk, attempting to cross the street. she was struck by a vehicle going eastbound, and unfortunately, succumbs to her injuries. so this was not a hit and run. all parties stayed at the scene and tight -- tried to render aid to, what and fortunately she did

not survive her injuries. as far as major events, we have had several conventions this week, large conventions, highlighted by the ibm convention, which goes from the seventh to the tenth. we also have a tech convict -- convention that is happening right now. it ends on the seventh. and the adobe convention, also is happening this week. so it has caused some traffic back up, but we have support for those events, and no problems anticipated. the san francisco giants will have a fan festival, which is really the start of the beginning for baseball season. that will be this saturday, february 9th. from ten a.m. until three p.m. in the afternoon. we will be staffed and deployed to there peerk no concerns or issues at this time. it is usually a good family event. i also want to highlight a black history month celebration that will happen at the fillmore

heritage centre this saturday, february 9th, from 12 bm until two p.m., and through our community engagement division, actually the sfpd has taken the lead to, and we have a san francisco human rights commission and others that are helping us host this first annual celebration at the fillmore heritage centre. it will begin at 12 p.m. mayor breed will speak, as well as supervisor vallie brown, the gathering will highlight african-american people for an african-american achievements. we will have musical performances, spoken word, food, and more. we are inviting the public to attend that event. community engagement division highlights for the week include the presidio day hike with an elementary school. this was on february 7th. we had our officers from the bayview were taking youth from

bayview to a college and career fair in oakland this weekend as well. for the month of january, highlight on some of our community engagement events included our police activity award that happened on january 11th where youth that participated in the 40 niners football, and cheer team were awarded certificates and trophies for participating in the program. that, by the way, there are officers and coaches for that program, and it is a good community police endeavoured art -- endeavoured to get kids involved in sports and cheering. on general 28, our cadets had an exercise program. officers are training cadets on proper use of exercise equipment and how to stay injury free during their workouts. also, education, the youth were taught the benefits of healthy dieting and living a healthy

lifestyle. we also participated into martin luther king events, including the annual martin luther king freedom march on january 21st, and on january 15th, i and other members of the police department attended the recreation and park annual martin luther king launch. on january 5th, i attended, along with captain hart and other ingleside district officers, a resiliency visitation valley resiliency neighborhood meeting. it was the first one. captain hart did a good job on this, we had a number of high-profile incidents in the valley, including the assault on the 88-year-old grandmother, and basically, there captain hart and other community members' leadership, the community got together to try and come up with ways that the community can be more resilient, which improves organizing the community, making

sure people are aware of what is going on, and it is a really good efforts. it is coming together. captain hart did a really good job on that. january 19th, we had a public safety forum, also in visitation valley. that was after the incident with the attack of the grandmother that i just mentioned big over 200 community members attended that event. generate 24th, was a community safety walk in the urban neighborhood, and the captain and supervisor gordon mar conducted a safety walk with the merchants' association. there were over 90 merchants that participated and were engaged in this event. on general 25th, the mission dolores academy symposium took place, in partnership with the human rights commission, there was a panel discussion at mission dolores academy, and over 156 seventh and eighth graders attended the discussion. it focused on topics such as

bullying, sexual assault and hate speech. those are the highlights. in addition, we kicked off the chinese lunar new year yesterday , at an event in chinatown. the mayor attended as well as a lot of city officials, and many members of the chinese community. a good kick off to chinese lunar new year. those are the highlights. i'm here if anyone has any questions. >> i just want to say, and want to thank the officers who put together and solve the case involving the elderly woman that was beaten in visitation valley. i know there was good police work that led to the arrest for that offence and others, and i want to thank those officers for their hard work. they are the ones who got it done, and it shows the skill and the effort ends the concern that the officers that throughout the city had, and the command staff. thank you. >> anything for the chief? no, please call the next time.

>> this is item three b., the director's report, report on recent activities and announcements. the report will be limited to a brief description of activities and announcements. the commission discussion will be limited to determining whether to calendar any of the issues raised for a future commission meeting, the d.b.a.'s presentation for november and december month is a fiscal report and will be put over until next meeting. >> thank you. that evening, director henderson. >> good evening. i have a few things to share with you guys today. i will start off with the statistics that i typically read off so people know about our caseloads and what we are working on in the office. so far this year, we have had 55 new cases come in. we were at 49 the same time last year. we have close 48 cases so far this year versus 51 last year. currently we have 286 cases that we are in the process of working

on. that number is up from 24 g last year this time. this year, in 2019, there are ten cases we have sustained, versus three cases we sustained this time last year, we are still at the same number as last week for cases that have passed the 270 day point. that is 25 cases. of this 25 cases, 17 of them are being told for legal reasons. in terms of cases mediated, we have up to three so far. we were out one at this time last year. new in the office we have a new staff members. we have offloaded for new investigators, and one new administrative analyst, which started earlier this month, and i will introduce them to really get both of them, if not all of them are paid here in the audience today if i do have

something that i want to talk a little bit about created our new sustained case report. we got around to that have changed that. the highlights of the meeting, now in the sustained reports that the chief receives and the commission receives, it will have a broader and deeper legal analysis associated with it. we reduced the time to prepare the reports, so all of you will have more time to review and make disciplinary decisions. basically, what will happen is the new reports will be co-authored by the investigators and the attorneys who will be working on the cases from the very beginning, and not just at the end, providing supplementals and often duplicate if information, facts, and analysis we estimate it is about 30% of the time that it takes to get to all of you to put the cases in

front of you. the problem we are trying to solve for where there were repetitive summaries and long summaries of interviews that were repetitive, and necessary work in those reports. the difference that you will see is that the legal analysis for each case will be in context and concise, quicker and easier for all of you to see the big picture, and to make the decisions you make regarding the discipline. we have already started to. you should start seeing those soon, what i wanted to explain it to you as you start seeing them. you will be getting them faster and more concise moving forward to. in terms of the mediation, as you know, we have expanded the staff that is involved in mediation in my office, and both the director, in addition to our outreach director, met with the chief and his command staff on

the 17th to talk about mediation and outreach. i just want to thank the chief for that meeting, and let folks know that the mediation team is going to present -- make a presentation at the meeting with the department on the 21st. that is coming up, we are excited about unable to articulate and answer the questions about how the office works, what the mediation project does, in context to the cases, and the other work we do to the department. we have a lot of outreach during this month. folks from the staff, d.b.a., went to the district stations' community meeting scott both to answer questions and receive information throughout the city. this month, we have been to ingleside, central, tenderloin, and mission appeared on the 17th, the outreach, my outreach manager met with chief scott and the rest of his command staff to start making

more of the rounds, and the police stations confirming that our forms and brochures are visible and accessible to the public, similar to the forms that we have here for people to understand what d.p.a. does, and how to contact us and share information with us. i just want to confirm that five of the stations have actually taken the steps to ensure the accessibility, and a thank you to richmond station, northern station, taraval, park, and central stations so far. saturday, on january 19th, one of our attorneys attended and gave remarks at the visitation valley public safety meeting. this is the group that was here over the past few weeks talking about the incidents that are taking place in visitation valley. i wanted to make sure our folks were there and able to answer questions. also we participated in advancing the career fair, hosted by the hrc. we are collaborating with hrc this year, and we are sharing the willie brown fellow.

we are working on race disparities and inclusion for public safety. january 26th, i spoke with youth advocates about race to parent -- disparities in the justice system at the social justice teaching. this is a consortium of the bay area schools. it was hosted at bishop o'dowd, included saint ignatius college preparatory. i would like to share that because they were there. also, on the 30th of january, we participated in the human trafficking presentation with the district attorney about public safety for inclusive communities. that is my report for the past few weeks. i will stay in the audience. i don't want to forget my folks in the audience.

here is alexandra, roberts, christian, kelly, who is our new investigators, you guys are all here and ready. >> are these new hires cost. >> these are all new hires. >> welcome. >> thank you, guys for coming. >> good luck. >> and joyce is here, she is our new administrative analyst will be helping us with our budget and bookkeeping. and also present is our senior investigator, steve ball and my chief of staff. if issues come up during the meeting, or people have issues or need to talk to anyone on the staff from d.b.a., they are available and here to answer questions. as i said, i try and encourage all of the new employees to participate and come to police commission during the first three months just to get context about how the work translates in this form, in addition to the work we are doing in the community. thank you for hosting us.

>> thank you -- thank you for joining the office of d.b.a., and the commission expects professionalism, that is what we ask of you, go to, professional investigation. a strong d.p.a. builds a strong police department. thank you. any thing -- commissioner taylor? >> director henderson, i know -- i know that you had talked before about not only providing us with the results of your audit, but the analysis behind it. what is the schedule for that? >> i would love to schedule something to come and make a presentation for all of you, both on what we are doing with the audit, where we are, and what it will look like, i would love to get that on the calendar. we are ready, i just need a date and a time to make it part of the agenda. i've already spoken with that whole team, and they are ready to make the presentation. that is ongoing, i believe we should have the results in may, but i would love to get it on the record before then to answer

questions, and to make inclusions if the council wants more stuff presented in a way that is more palatable to a broader audience. >> anything further for director henderson? hearing none, please call the next item. >> item three c., reports to the commission commit. commission reports will be limited to a brief description of activities and announcements. commission discussion will be limited to determining whether to calendar any of the issues raised for a future commission meeting. commission president's report, commissioner's reports. update on dg l3 .16, there working group meeting held on general 28, 2019. >> thank you very much. basically we have been busy in the weeks that we have been off, working on assembly bill 1421. and other issues, whether it is staffing, and how we will handle it, there have been several meetings on that front, but that is what i have reported to commissioners.

is there anything else you would like to report? >> i met with some members of the youth commission, and they would like to come to this body and report on their concerns regarding the youth commission and police activity, as well as their budget. they asked for us to schedule i think, march 13th, a short presentation -- february 13th, a short presentation. i did speak to commissioners, and i think that will work out for them to do that. i also want to remind this commission that i have probably resolution so that we have a rotating youth commissioner to sit with us, and make presentations on a weekly basis. and you get to choose from that person will be. the youth commission will take that up and look at the resolution. and hopefully it is something we can bring in march or april to this commission, and have them participate in some fashion with this body. >> great. anything further?

>> gotcha. so, i was looking back in my phone so i could remember what i was doing over at the headquarters, we had dg '03 16, that meeting there last week. myself and commissioner taylor. i think, i don't think there's too much substantive to report right now, just that we are making progress. i think the last meeting was very productive and that we narrowed the issues and through a combination of the community, the commissioners, and the department, it is my opinion we are on a pretty good track, and i think that hopefully the next meeting maybe able to move forward and report something more substantive. >> i should also add, i met with

the d.p.a. and the p.o.a., and the police department on this pic i have to tell you, it was very productive, commissioners, to have everyone in the room, we all sat in the room and we hash it out. i want to thank the director, and i want to think p.o.a. and staff are doing it. it was a very effective way of handling it. >> it is the medal of valour his. commissioner taylor? >> i want to echo what the commissioner said about the 3.16 working group. and i want to commend the department, both the community groups -- especially to the department, i was pleasantly surprised by folks really coming up with creative solutions, and in the spirit of compromise, i think we are very close to hopefully a resolution that will be good for everyone. >> no worries. >> i also want to report that commissioner taylor and i and

the chief had a black history month 2019 celebration kickoff. black migrations moving forward where we heard from the barge commissioner who gave the keynote, but it was an exciting event that took place here at city hall. mayor breed to give me phenomenal speech as she declared it black history month pickett was an excellent event, encouraging folks and community to come out for the entire month. >> i forgot, i have asked this body to put on the agenda of the letter we got from a cat remember -- >> that is next. >> okay, thank you. >> please call the next line item. >> item 3d is commission announcements and scheduling of items identified for consideration of fridge -- future commission meetings. >> and snap the next commission meeting will be on the 13th at

530 p.m. here at city hall in room 400. >> so i think we got the letter saying we had violated the brown act, i think it was, from the task force. i thought we could -- i thought i had asked if we could agenda eyes that so we can talk about it. >> i would ask that that letter be distributed to all the commissioners so we have a look at it, and if there are some authorities, whether or not it's binding -- i understand some of the conversations we've had about bringing that forward, but again, i think we should put that off down the work -- road until we get a firm handle on that. that would be my opinion. but if that is what the whole commission wants, we could take a vote on it. it is something we can actually vote on right now. >> can we at least put it on the agenda? >> i think that the deterrents

for putting it on its because of the substantive issue, and i don't think that's what the commissioner is asking for. she is asking for -- so i think procedurally, we should at least put this on the agenda to talk about that, not the substantive portion of the letter. >> for those who were there at the seat -- that evening, we had firm legal advice from our city attorney that we had done everything legally and procedurally correct. >> we can't talk about it right now so i want to put it on the agenda. >> i would just follow up on that point, we have talked about this before, and we keep talking about it every meeting. nobody here has a desire to go back and relive those glorious days that you had here. i have heard about them, but i do think two points, one, it is

a criticism of the well-founded because i think it is not -- it is probably sometime task force which is a city body or agency of some sort, my apologies for not knowing the exact -- how it is formed, and then to, you know, i think we are all, for the most part, equal commissioners, and the rules allow us to put things on, so according to our rules of order, the president and secretary can decide one time not to put it on, and then it has to be on within the second meeting after it's been requested. to me, i just don't -- i don't think this should be a point of disagreement.

we are here to have the nice conversations, the inspirational conversations, with tough conversations. i don't think this is a tough conversation, and i would just like to put it to rest so we don't have to keep talking about it. >> do i have a motion to put it on for the next meeting? >> we don't need a motion. >> a commissioner can request it. >> madame city attorney?

>> i have been watching a lot of legal research. [laughter] >> so i will read the whole part so everybody is aware of the rule of order. rule to .13, any agenda item submitted to the secretary for inclusion of the agenda on a regular or special meeting must be approved by the commission deputy assistant chief or the chief chief of police item submitted by d.b.a., must be approved by the d.p.a. director, all items must be submitted before the close of business on the thursday preceding a regular commission meeting. the secretary shall promptly inform the president of all such prohibited agenda items. if the president determines an interest of maintaining a meeting of a reasonable length for such item should not be included on the agenda for the meeting for which the item was submitted, such item maybe omitted, which shall be included on the agenda for the next regular meeting or of a special meeting, except as provided by the brown act.

the key shall not act upon our discuss any meat item at the meeting unless the description of the agent appears on an agenda for the meeting. if an item arises after the agenda has been distributed, the commission may add it to the agenda and consider the item in accordance with procedures set forth under the brown act. >> that was the d.p.a. and the chief. isn't there one for commissioners? >> i favor having that discussion. i didn't at first, but it has come up so many times, it is clearly an issue for some of the commissioners. it is an issue from some members of the public. i think we should put it on the agenda with a couple caveats. i would encourage every commissioner who was not present at that meeting to go back and -- i think it was november 3rd when the meeting happened. go back. is a six and a half hour tape. i would not suggest you look at all of that, but at one hour and

51 minutes, because i went back and i reviewed it recently, one hour and 51 minutes, that is when it became impossible for the commission to meet, and it is important for you to look at the initial stages of the meeting, then look at what happens between one hour and 50 minutes, and about two hours. the commission was basically locked up for over an hour and a small room behind room 200 downstairs. i suggest after that our, and i think it is somewhere around three hours plus, we reconvene, and there were two hours of testimony. i think a little more than two hours pick some from experts, mostly from the public who came in, five people at a time, they gave their two minutes, and some of them sat down, some of them left. i think it is important for you

to understand what that meeting was like so that when we go through the sunshine letter, and i will have a fair amount to say when we do that, you will at least know as best you can what actually happened at that time. i would support its. by the way, the rules that we have don't say that any time a commissioner wants to put something on the agenda, it gets on, and if it can't get on the next meeting, he gets on the following meeting. it says, if there's no room on the calendar back then it has to be calendared. but there are other reasons why matters won't come on the calendar. sometimes the commission is not ready to discuss a matter because they are not fully educated, or they don't have documents, where they haven't heard from experts. it may mean that matters -- this does not happen to be one of those examples, but there are times where it may take months to put something on a calendar because we are not ready to discuss it, and i would hope we don't have to wrestle over that, and i agree with commissioners that we ought to work as a collaborative body. if there are things in need to be discussed -- i would support

putting it on. >> commissioner taylor. >> i wanted to ask the city attorney's office if she doesn't mind, the first part of that provision. if you could reread that for us. it got lost. something must be approved by? it is just at the very beginning. >> absolutely. agenda items get any agenda submitted to the secretary for inclusion on the agenda as a regular or special meeting must be approved by a commissioner, deputy chief, assistant chief or the chief of police. item submitted by d.p.a. must be approved by the d.p.a. director. all items submitted before the close of business on the thursday preceding a regular commission meeting, the secretary shall probably inform the president president of submitted agenda items back if just president determines in the interest of maintaining and beating of a reasonable length, such item shall not be included on the agenda for the meeting for which the agenda -- item was submitted. it maybe omitted but shall be included on the agenda of the

next regular or of a special meeting. >> there is that old shall we learned about in law school. that is mandatory, it is not discretionary. >> but did you hear what the words say? if the president determines a calendar is too full, essentially. >> it goes over one meeting. >> but if that is not the reason why it is not being calendared, suppose it is not being calendared because we are waiting to get documents i will take another two months, it is not being delayed because of the length of the meeting calendar, is being delayed for some other reason. >> with that is a decision for the commissioner, we are not a monarchy here, we are coequal commissioners, and while the president has the ability to set committees, a few other things,

we all have the same voice and vote up here. that is why it is written like that because we get to decide whether or not something is ready. there is not a threshold that we must show to our wise leader in order to have an item on the agenda, and to discuss it. i think that is why it is written in language that is mandatory. if i want to bring something on and i realize, like you said, it is not ready, i just pull it off. but you can imagine that, right? if there is somebody -- satan eva leader takes over the commission and tries to prevent us from doing the good work we are doing here, which i'm certain will not happen, then that person could control everything, could stop the process of reform, stop all the good work that we have been doing, and that has been done on this commission before i joined. that is not how commissions are generally run, and that is not how the rules of order requires to conduct our meetings. >> commissioner taylor?

>> most of us are lawyers here, and most of us are able to read a legal document and provision, and we all know that even smart and legal minds can disagree on what a provision means. i think it would be helpful if perhaps, not today, but we could have the city attorney's office, or we could each do our own research on this, because on a plain reading of this, it says, if the calendar is too long. i would like more time to look at this and think about it, and do research of my own. if you are able to advise us, that would be welcome and helpful. with this alone does not answer the question, so i would like to be educated on what we are permitted and not permitted to do. [laughter]

>> thank you. there is no reading here. it is plain, black letter, i don't think we have to decide this tonight, i guess we do as far as putting it on the agenda, but it doesn't matter how much help we cry for from the city attorney. we still have to do our job. the letter, the word of the rules states that you are no more powerful than i, i am no more powerful than you, we are all coequal commissioners. i think that we should, you know, i have had talks with a number of you about that, about how we treat each other with respect, with dignity, because as to be has told me many times, that was not always the case on this commission, so in order to have that in a positive way, we have to respect each other, but

also respect the rules kick. >> commissioner taylor? and then i will end this. >> absolutely. i think that we all work very well together, and we do respect each other. i'm asking to be educated because i can read black letter law just as well as anyone else on this day us, and i have questions. if i have questions, i imagine i'm not the only person who has questions. i am asking to be educated, as a lawyer myself, as to what this means. but this shalt refers to is not clear to me in reading this. so that is my only request. >> thank you. >> i just wanted to get clarification. things are getting taken off because they aren't ready. if a commissioner asks to put an item on the agenda, who decides when it is not ready? it has been the president's decision to say, i don't think it is ready, therefore i am taking it off even though

another commissioner asked to put it on. >> i don't have an answer to that. i don't know. >> that raises my point. we have questions. >> we have been told by the city's attorney representative that we have the ability to vote as to whether an item goes on the calendar. am i right about that? >> that is correct. as a body, the commission can vote to place an item on the agenda. >> if i bring something up, and the president decides, let's call for a vote, and a majority does not want to put the item on the agenda, it doesn't go on the agenda? >> that is correct. >> i've never had us vote like that. >> yeah,. [laughter] >> where does it say that in the rules? >> can i make a suggestion? >> i can send you the caselaw if you would like on how the commission can make -- >> twelve years on this commission, we have never voted.

>> we all have questions. >> can i make a suggestion? i think that from what i gather, people want to address this issue. and commissioner say it is not about revisiting tasers. it is about whether or not we should discuss the sentient ordinance task force, their decision, as opposed to the information we got. what i suggest, as we put this on until next week and we schedule after that. it looks like we have enough votes to put it on for discussion. >> again, i think that is what we should do. and it brings up a lot if you motion, you weren't here when this took place, you have to understand, some of the considerations are the stress of everything that brings us upon. >> if you want, we can schedule for next week, or we can put it over so commissioners have further briefing and schedule for the following week.

>> whatever, i just wanted on the agenda. >> like you said, i don't think that anybody is trying to get to the underlying vote. >> let's put it on for february 20th so we have some time. okay, we are good. february 20th. >> in the meantime, if i could have that further briefing about how agenda items are voted upon, that would be very helpful. >> absolutely. might -- may i suggest the bylaws be rewritten, given that there are so many questions. these are outdated. >> says who? >> since 2005 on the top. >> but what about it? do you feel that we should not have individual commissioner rights? >> i have no personal feelings. my suggestion is to revise the bilo to read as this commission would like them to read. >> please call for public comment on these items. >> we have public comment on items 38 through 3d kick.

>> any public comment? public comment is now closed. >> item four, discussion and possible action to propose the draft of penalty guidelines for the sworn members of the san francisco police department for purposes engaging in the meet and confer process with the police officers association as required by law for discussion and possible action. >> i will turn this over to commissioner hirsch who has been working on this. >> i will start off. this project was started a long time ago. president determine started it. when he left the commission, i took up the mantle. i worked with brian jones. we went through several -- >> sorry about that. >> we went through several other police departments disciplinary

matrixes, and sergeant jones started working based on the los angeles disciplinary set of guidelines. what we did is we try to create guidelines that would provide better notice, be better organized, and they are clear to both the department and the public, and to the d.p.a. what happens for a certain misconduct the department, for a landing and there are several capital for the conduct, and several of those levels of discipline that we adjust for what it really does is it acknowledges the serious offences. when there are serious offences, you can expect, as an officer, to be terminated or seriously disciplined. we think it is fair that there are less that officers are given the opportunity to know what they did wrong, and to correct their behavior. that is part of that progressive discipline that is built in to

bargaining agreement to this matrix as well if there is a felony conviction that an officer is able to perform his or her job functions, if there is theft, if there is a material misstatement in the scope of employment, if there is a serious use of force, illegal use of possession of drugs, serious sexual misconduct captives are all terminable offences, it is important for people to know that in the public, is important for the department members to know that they are also far less significant offences, and we have a matrix which really has a guideline. my hope is that we will go through this and adopt it.

it then goes to meet and confer, because the union has a right to sit down and negotiate over this matrix because it goes to the heart of the terms and conditions of employment for officers. that process will then have to take place before it finally comes back and is finalized. we do get to approve the final draft. i also hope that members of the department, the officers, will look at this before they ever are disciplined for a matter. most officers look at this only when they have a problem, that is when they find out what these rules are, and what the punishment is. i would hope that people take the time to look at this, so they understand what it is the department is trying to do, what behavior they are trying to prevent, and how penalties play out here i don't know if my commissioner has anything to say. >> i thank you summed it up pretty well. i think it would be helpful to open it up for discussion to give other commissioners their views. there were questions in respect to the time period in which the commission can look back on the

officer's records. i know the chief is very thick on progressive discipline, and that was one of the issues we had when we were redrafting the guidelines, because we wanted to make it fair, and to make it as transparent as possible. and so, i'm sure will be helpful ... [indiscernible] >> i appreciate you saying that. there was a disagreement initially by the department and to the d.p.a. as to how far back you could look at and offences in order to use it for progressive discipline. i was told yesterday that the d.p.a. and the department has reached a compromise agreement on that of seven years. >> that is correct. >> so the department and the d.p.a. is recommending seven years. there was a five and ten year split at the time.

>> thank you. >> director henderson, you are next up. what was that -- was that what you are about to say? >> no. i was going to talk about the transparency stuff in context, just in terms of people who are following this issue to explain why this is a big deal in terms of the transparency. one of the things we have done in the past from the d.p.a. is we have seven different categories describing the disciplinary action the department had for. it was really hard to capture what specific behavior we were talking about. internally, you had to do a little bit more work beyond just what was being disciplined to try and figure out what this behavior was, and now this new matrix, which includes over 100 different descriptions about behavior. it will be really helpful. not just internally, but even speaking internally, enter agency from the d.p.a., with the do police department, it will be helpful. but certainly more so for the broader public to understand

better about what we do, how we do it, and how it specifically triangulate his to specific instances, in specific behaviors. i think that is a really big thing, no one has talked about that context or that part of it so i wanted to make sure that wasn't lost as we were talking about why this matrix is a bigger deal in improving transparency. >> thank you. >> i will let them go first. >> i just want to get some clarification. i think i know what this is about, but i want to make sure i understand it fully pick my understanding is when we charge an officer, whether it is also the d.t.a., we have to put what the actual recommendation is for punishment, like five days, 20 days, termination, we have to put what we think, and they can't get any more than that. we are bound by whatever the charging documents say, that is my understanding. >> so, this is a guideline to

determine, you know, what we will put on these charging documents, the first one, on page 6, says the unintentional discharge of a firearm on or off duty with or without injury determined to be out of policy, it lists all eight. the person has a discretion within all eight. goes through a and tee. it means admonishment to, all the way through termination. i guess, i'm looking at this, and it tells me individual charging officers can select whether they think the first offences a reprimand or 1-10 days or termination. it is wide. it is wide-ranging. i don't think it is consistent. i am concerned. i have seen documents that have appalled me on what the recommendation is, and i also, this swings the pendulum all the way the other way that each individual charging officer, depending on what they think, between eight different punishments.

i thank you for doing this, i just need clarification how this is working in person. >> the thinking is this. there are no two cases that are identical. and the range is enormous. if you can imagine, in an unintentional discharge of a firearm, an officer can trip on the pavement, and a gun goes off that is one extreme. the other extreme is something much more egregious, where let's say the officer is intoxicated, and takes out his gun and is playing with it, and fires a shot and hurts somebody. >> that would be intentional. >> no, it wasn't intentional, he didn't mean for it to go off, and you can have -- what i am saying is there is a broad range. some of these categories have very narrow ranges of discipline some have a broad range, we tried to go through scenarios depending on how wide that door is.

>> i have seen unintentional his where they take it off and they put it on their dresser, and it goes off just by pushing it down. that is, it kind of happens. pulling it out and it discharges by accident at the locker room, or things like that. i am saying, there are age variations. it makes me nervous. >> thank you. i think one of the other reasons is because the model is a progressive discipline and model. the chief is very big on that. it goes to my point which is on section three. reviews of misconduct. >> page 2 of 18. >> i'm sorry, i don't have your copy. >> is page 2 at the bottom where it talks about, it starts at the paragraph, and offences. >> okay. is that bachelor?

thank you. it talks about the progressive discipline, and how -- is that better? thank you. >> it talks about the progressive discipline and when it can be a second or third offence when it is the same general major -- general nature of the first misconduct. it does not tell us what the officer is facing, because what does a general nature of the misconduct mean? does that mean if the offences is the use of force a one-time, of them next time he doesn't have his 40 -- body worn camera? are those categories that would be considered by the chief or the other charging agency when determining what discipline would it be? because according to this language, one could argue that it is not the same general nature of the offence, and therefore it would be subject to progressive discipline. i know that the chief and the model is to follow that idea. i think that language is a little problematic and confusing , and may need to be

clarified. and then the other portion of the language that i think i had to raise, and i think is also a little ambiguous is on page 4. the last item is for factors in aggravation. when it talks about the misconduct, reasonably and negatively impacting the department charged at reputation, credibility, mission, or reasonably diminished public confidence in the department. i know the chief is very big on policing with respect and respecting the community, and so the assertion of the word reasonably is very -- it seems very subjective, because reasonable to whom? if it is reasonable to one person, you may not be reasonable to another, and i think that language is problematic because it, i would want it in line with what the chief has said that the mission

of the police department is, to police with respect and dignity. so those were my two points with respect to the disciplinary matrix that we worked on. >> thank you. >> i know you guys have done a ton of work on this, so thank you. for those of us who didn't work on this, this is an area i have not thought about. for me, the process generally when we are looking at policies, we are looking at fast tracking, did you find this style -- when i say style, i am referring to the wide variations in the ranges to be consistent with other departments, or best practices, i don't know if there are best practices for these. how did you determine that this

is the best way to go? >> this is consistent with what we have seen around other departments, and it is consistent with other industries also. it is actually not unusual to find this outside of law enforcement where there are grids,. this is more detailed then you find most labor agreements. they are much more ambiguous. >> the trouble is, language is on precise. by eliminating the word reasonable, for example, i don't thank you will help us interpret west this -- what this means. the real control the commission has, as we hire and fire the chief. we make recommendations to the mayor. the chief has to comply with the intent of the commission in adopting this. and the chief knows that, and every chief from now on will know that, and the chiefs in the past have known that. they are at the will of the city

if we see something that we don't like, if we think people are being under charged, and it is an issue, that i think we have an obligation to raise it with the chief and the chief judge office. [please stand by] it strikes me that my

background perhaps is for me, but i don't see anything about sexual contact with a minor and i don't know where that fits in this scheme. but that would be incredibly serious offense that would be on the same level as the other more serious offense. >> the commission of a felony is automatic termination. so if you're describing a felony and there is a conviction, then it's automatic termination. >> not all sexual contact with minor is felony. i don't want to arm chair quarterback, but it was raised for me. >> i don't know who would be retained under those circumstances. >> i forgot to add one more thing. with rudeness, harassment, on page 17.

supposed to add 11.07 which adds discrimination as well. our dgo regarding discrimination, which we're working on, 11.07, should have been added because that's part of the bias policing subcategory and we had talked about that, but that wasn't added in the final that i'm seeing now. it was also supposed to be added to -- never mind. i see it was added where it was supposed to. >> chief scott? >> thank you. in response to commissioner