air back. we have officers -- arabic. we are trying to get dhr to certify. they want to rule out the language line on all patrol officers phones so they can video conference with american sign language interpreters. that needed added. it is not added assert fiction. they want to expand the human resources certification to include bilingual translation. we have interpreters. if the person writes out a statement in their own language our officers have to translate that document before they write their reports. there is no certification for translating documents. we need dhr to provide

certification and interpretation only and translation of witness victim statements at the scene. that is something they are working on. that is important. before they decide who to charge, they need to understand what the victim or witnesses are saying in their own language if they write it out. they want to improve services at the stations to provide more information about the availability of bilingual officer police service aids. someone brought in a picture of roll it in electronic messages machine hooked to a computer. you can program in and then people can read it. then last one is deaf and hard-of-hearing. this is concerns from domestic violence survivor. they had a terrific relationship with the department to move this

forward. those are some of the things they are working on. if they have those boards they would also make information more available for the bilingual officers and police service aids at the station house. >> thank you, vice president taylor. >> commissioner taylor: it was an exciting week. we had the job of trying to replace the irreplaceable. we are still working on that. i want to just note a couple things. black history month celebration that sfpd put on was fantastic. it was really moving. i was shocked it was the first. it should not be the last. it was very powerful. i was happy and proud to attend the class graduation for the 251st academy class from sfpd. i was struck by the class representative elected to speak

gave the most amazing speech. i think really, really recognizing it and holding themselves accountable and to high standard, it made me proud to be on the commission and hopeful for the future of sfpd. these new graduates were really impressive. they took the burden that every officer carries very seriously and took it upon themselves in a way that made everyone proud. i have been working on the stack force. i have reached out to the chief about the staffing needs of the police department and the recommendation and pursuant to the legislation that he passed

and his desire to see that through. >> i want to say thank you for stepping in and taking your leadership. i am looking forward to working with director henderson to meet bi-weekly on wednesdays. working closely. i want to report. >> was the mayor rather young for lifetime achievement. >> she stated that she was younger than the general manager kelly and was receiving the award but it was all in good fun. the general manager they want to make sure they can keep that

going. >> thank you. next item on the agenda. >> item 1d commission announcements and scheduling of items for consideration at future commission meetings action. >> any items? moving on then. >> can i just announce for the members of the public next commission meeting on february 20, 2019 at city hall in room 400 at 5:30 p.m. >> okay. are we now taking an item out of order? >> yes my apologies. public comment on 1a through d. >> anybody for public comment? seeing none, public comment is closed. next item. >> my apologies i forgot to mention item 7 will be taken out of order after item 2. >> okay.

>> this is item 2 presentation by the youth commission regarding the youth commission budget priority discussion. >> before that director henderson has a comment. >> we talked about it before in previous hearings about scheduling a time for the audit, hearing for the audit at some point in march. >> we have that. we know that. thank you. ready for the youth commission. >> good evening. >> i have a flash drive. >> i am nora hilton on the youth commission and the chair of the

transformative justice committee on the commission. okay. >> speak into the microphone. >> i have a transformative justice committee. we are finding alternative also for incarceration and resources to give youth access to education and community hearing and sustainable housing for vulnerable communities. what is the san francisco youth commission? >> the youth commission is a body of 17 youth or transitional age used that collect information from the youth of san francisco about needs and report to the board of supervisors and mayor what the children and youth in san

francisco need. at the end of the year on july 1st we create an annual report for the activities and goals for the entire area. what i present this year is we decided to make a budget priority resolution that allows youth organizations to influence the budget process through the youth commission. it also allows the youth commission to advocate for specific programs. our budget priorities are things we are advocating for funding in the departments or organizations or partners. in addition to the budget priorities the transformative justice committee is working on extending the miranda rights to 17 and under, implementing the training and closing to support community partners working to

close the 850 jail. it is made of three separate committees. first civic engagement committee. this priority is engaging youth in the democratic process and focus this year is 16. i am the chair of the transformative justice committee. our priority is community investment and finding alternative also to youth. the third is the housing and land use finding permanent supportive housing and creating a navigational center. to develop the budget we have talked with community partners. coleman advocates and lawyer representing one of the youth at the log cabin ranch. we have also met with the chiefs and visited the youth

development trainings like policing the teenage police trainings that happened this year. our first budget priority is investment in reentry programs and service for youth. supportive housing and giving youth that have exited th the criminal systematic sessto help them readjust to coming back to society. we really encourage the investment in young adult court which is community assessment and resource center, and our main goal is to reform the juvenile justice system and the probation system so they truly benefit the youth of san francisco. statistics which you already know. transitional age youth from the ages 18 to 25 who might have

exited youth but are still transitioning to fully adulthood. they make up 2 25% of the jail population. 56% of the population of jails in san francisco is black. black people make up 3% of the population in san francisco. 30% of the people incarcerated are . >> what was that. >> 30% are house less. next budget priority is the instruction for law enforcement officers on youth cognitive development and interactive with youth. it is necessary to be instructed on how the teenage brain differs from the adult brain. as a transformative justice committee we visited the last training that happened.

we met with some of the strategy for youth people who de saned the trainings. -- designed the trainings. we encourage the officers to take the trainings. this was implemented in the last fiscal year, it was not consistently implemented, and although this was like a priority only two trainings of police and the teenage brain actually happened. less than 100 officers were originally trained in this. why are we here to talk to you? budget cuts. the mayor requested to cut up to 6% from the departments over the next two years. youth commission is concerned about vulnerable youth disadvantaged if programs are scaled down or cut. the commission strongly urges

the programs are not cut and invested more. our specific asks of you are that you element a training that is comprehensive and culturally comprehensive for youth and police and probation officers, regarding rights of youth, biases and systematic oppression. in addition, we request transparency with the community after incidents such as the incident at the high school. you work with the community or sfpd works to build solutions, community oriented solutions and creates a dialogue between sfpd and community. the transformative justice community is holding the police round table on march 12 where youth and community partners are invited to share stories of

interactions with police, and we can all learn and build a dialogue between sfpd and directly to community partners. >> thank you. are you inviting us to the marc? >> it is open to the public. we would appreciate if some members connected to sfpd would come. >> where and when? >> at the main library in what room? >> it will be in the heritage room a. >> what time of the day? 5:00 to 6:30 p.m. >> okay. march 12th. vice president taylor. >> commissioner taylor: great presentation. can you talk about policing the teenage brain training? >> in i believe it was march, 25 officers were brought in for training for the workshop called

policing the teenage brain. these officers were to get trained to become trainers and go off and teach their own units how the teenage brain differs from adult brain and changes interactions with youth. we think this is great, but we also think i it is important moe officers are trained. we are encouraging all officers take this course. i personally went to one of the trainings, i visited, not the whole day. it was powerful. there was a few students who were paid to come there. there were scenarios where the students were the officers and the students were told by the facilitators, come up to the officers as you see officers coming up to you. how do you see the officers coming up to you. the students were aggressive and able to share. even if the officers didn't necessarily see themselves coming to the students greg i

feel the students intern spread that way because of the cognitive development. that is how the teenage brain works. that is the little part i saw. there was a whole day training. that was powerful to me, and it is like showing differences between the teenage brain and youth brain in a youth oriented way. >> do you know about this? >> i have heard of the program and took notes to find the status on the program. we will report back. >> commissioner. >> commissioner hamasaki: do you have other members of your committee with you today? >> not present in the room. >> commissioner hamasaki: what is it look like what you would like the commission to do regarding is it developing a policy for the officers or just

the training aspect? >> for the mandated cognitive development training. >> is this something you took from another department? how did you come across this program or this training? >> it is already implemented. we are encouraging it to be implemented further. it was a priority in the last fiscal year. we feel it should be more. we encourage all officers to go through the training 134 officers are going there. we think it is important all officers are educated on youth development. >> commissioner hamasaki: thank you for the presentation. i think for those who worked with juveniles in the criminal justice system, you know we understand the particular challenges that exist at the intersection of young people and law enforcement. i want to say i really

appreciate the work you folks have done. i know that this came up sometime last year because there was something about policing the teenage brain that was an article or some sort of other program, but i know the chief was interested in this as well. >> the chief had a few officers attend the training on the add do less sent brain. a few officers went to the training and they reported back to the chief and the chief was looking into expanding the program to have more officers go to the training or have the training come to the department. >> i think speaking for myself i am strongly supportive of this. this is a wonderful thing that you folks have done. >> can i add some contact goes to this. as staff person for the commission. the youth commission for a decade strategy for youth, this

develop alley working and understand -- developmentally working has been demanded for a decade. this came from lisa duro who offers there. there is strategy money for policing the teenage brain. training for the trainers there, is a process. 25 police officers can get this and report back to the department. however there was not a lot of follow up which is where we are coming through. there is only two sessions when they were to go to trainings every three months. it was march. then the next session was in december. there is a huge gap with that. >> could you introduce yourself. >> i am caroline. i use data and pronounces.

i am the specialist. >> director henderson. >> thank you so much for being here today. i spent a lot of time doing juvenile stuff. i appreciate you guys referenced the important work that we did with the district attorney's office and the police department that has been around for a couple decades now. not to age myself. i am glad you guys mentioned the significance when we started it in the 1990s. i want be to say to articulate this in the presentation that the dpa has been working could lawiththe youth commission for o decades and revising 7.01 including a couple milestones. the commission including the knowing your right for youth and brochure, drafting of the

children of arrested parents to minimize trauma to youth and children when parents are arrested. and from 2015 the recommendations about the youth brain for all sfpd officers. we have stayed connected with the commission to commence the training which took place last year, and we also are in contact with youth educationalist for the implementation of the free training. we would urge the sfpd to expand the officers participating in the cognitive training especially you were referencing earlier we have an out said training source and it is free. there is no cost. one of the issues is having those to affirm the standards of implementation. one of the challenges we have

been dealing with and they were talking about was having the captains come get the training and then they rotate out. unless we institutionalize the training with the specific captains in the specific area, you have to start all over again and new captains may or may not have that training. >> i noticed on the last page of your presentation your ask is not in the printed part that we got. >> it was updated today. >> it would be nice if you can e-mail that to us. that was the bullet point what you are asking for. i do notice on the presentation there is a resolution that is lengthy in the back. it talkers about money for the mandatory infraction for law enforcement on interactions with youth and to work with the youth

commission department of dpa and community organizations like frisco and cop watch for curriculum on interactions. we have the budget presentation coming up. if i understand it right, you are asking different agencies to include in their budget a portion that would help with the youth commission goals and objectives and in particular to meet this mandatory instruction. we have a free class. do i read this right? is that what you are asking for? >> fully implementation. as we talked about in the past what you are talking about and what they are alluding to. >> it is on the back of the presentation. you are asking the different department heads to include in the -- include in the bunk it funding to meet the goals.

three paragraphs. the one in particular you are talking about right now, is that right? >> that is correct. the strategy for youth right now is funding for the sfpd. we would like to expand to student resource officers and multiple settings in the public library and with traffic court. how do we address things that come up there? that is the big goal. >> is this resolution pending or something you are working on in the future? >> omnibus preliminary budget priorities. >> this resolution has already passed. that is what we are presenting now. these are our budget priorities. we are now presenting them to different departments. >> has anyone met with the departments, department to ask whether or not they would be able to include any of the

funding specifically for this particular topic? >> thithis is the first time the youth commission is doing the budget pen betation to the -- presentation. it is usually in the priorities in may. right now it is february. we are looking through all of our budget priorities. this is a lesson learned moment. hopefully, this will allow for room. hold up, maybe we shouldn't appear for the budget just yet. >> the reason we are doing this. in the past we would give the budget priorities long after these would happen like in may we would be doing this thing now. like everything we would say we wanted as budget priority wouldn't have an effect on the actual budget.

this year we are doing it earlier. >> to ask if there is money to help implement this, is that right. >> like today we met with budget and finance committee with the board of supervisors and had a presentation with the police commission. >> what are you doing after this? commissioner brookter. >> i want to commend the two of you. it is not easy to be here on a wednesday night at 7:00 p.m. i want to thank you for your service, especially serving on the youth commission. i got the opportunity to spend time with a former commissioner zack, who is a good friend and the great work he did on the youth commission. i have a quick division as we talk about budget cuts and transitional ags and homelessness. what are you doing with the rising up campaign the mayor has to cut transitional age youth

homelessness in half by 2022. are you familiar with the campaign. >> this would be more for our housing and land-use committee. i can connect you with them. >> please. >> thank you very much. >> next item. >> is there any public comment on item two? public comment on item two? >> come on up. you are it. >> thank you kindly. good evening. i am jessie stout, an tropical storm in san francisco. i -- an attorney in san francisco. i think the transcommittee is doing great work. i think this is how san

francisco is going. these are our voters coming up, and i think in particular the subject they presented about the play of the san francisco police and sheriff's department are going to be important over the next couple months. hearing that the jail population is primarily african-american and 30% of people incarcerated are homeless at the time of their arrest is deplorable. we can do so much better to provide service. it is fantastic the youth commission is providing mental health services and housing instead of incarcerating people. to have people faced with incentives to commit crimes to be provided with a place to sleep, place to live so they can stay free.

it would be so much better. i ask you to take seriously the youth commission presentation and consider all of the priorities in this resolution. thank you. >> i would say the participants are not just future voters. i think they are future leaders in the city. i thank you all. >> public comment. >> good evening. >> i am not as prepared as i want to be. i want them to know i stand here in support of them. we have to make sure the budget cuts are far away from services and cut from the top, i always say. i am so very concerned about the incident at balboa, that was my friend's son affected. there is movement. i want to support that our youth have the dew process they need

-- the dew due process. thank you. >> thank you. no further comment i see. next item, please. >> this is item 7 out of order. discussion and possible action to adopt rules for administrative appeals, discussion and possible action. >> good evening. i am carol ison. employee relations for employee city. this is the deputy city attorney who advised the negotiations that led to the proposed rule pending before you tonight. we are here to urge adoption. i want to make some brief comments and look forward to hearing the discussion. to give you background. in june of 2017, the first district court of appeal ruled the police commission's discipline rules did not provide

the opportunity for administrative appeal i have disciplinary actions as required by the public safety officer procedural bill of acts right. they adopted the rules and you posted them for meet and confer process with the san francisco police officers. i will comment about the process. i want to tell you the key features of the rules pending before you tonight. when the commission imposes major discipline on a police officer, that is defined as greater than 10 days up to including termination whether it is from the accountability or from the police chief commission then rules and then under pro bar the employee, police

officers is entitled to an appeal of your decision. that is what we believe is in front of you today. we are urging your adoption. key features are as follows first administrative law judge from the california office of administrative hearing would conduct and decide the appeal. the record on appeal would consist of police commission's decision and findings of fact and full record of the proceedings before the commission. that record can only be augmented for three reasons. one, on showing of good cause as determined by the alj. the record can be augmented with any record that was inadvertently admitted or excusedded and, finally, any newly discovered evidence that could not have been known at the time of the original trial. the alj would conduct a full

independent review, paper review of the entire record. the parties would fight briefs and could make appeal appear for oral arguments. finally and most important the alj would review your decision under two standards. legal error or abuse of discretion. again, as we explained earlier, the appellant, disciplined officer would where the burden of proving that the commission committed an illegal error. if they find they did abuse discretion, a very high standard, alj can reduce to lesser penalty or vacate altogether. we have been in negotiations over a year. we went through a fact finding process required under state law. the neutral panel in the fact finding process was preeminent

professor of law at the university. william gold was the chairperson of the labor relations board during the clinton administration for over 50 years. it was an honor to work with him both ourselves and the union. sy is want to draw your attention to an important statement in the record. he stated the alj will provide the parties with career impartial expert civil servants disinterested in the outcome of the disciplinary matter. we are here to recommend. we feel comfortable we covered every issue and we recommend your adoption. thank you. >> anything you want to add at

this point? >> she covered it. >> i want to clarify. the rules you are asking us to adopt are they also in william gold's decision? it looks like the language tracks. >> yes, it does. >> we are really. this is agreed to buy the dpa as well, i'm or repoa. >> yes and dpa as i understand it. >> it came about after professor gold issued his recommendation. >> >> commissioner hamasaki: just briefly remind me. is this for the short term processor the long-term process? >> this is for as long as the rule is in effect. >> what we call the short term process. >> commissioner hamasaki: if the commission adopts this appeal

procedure it would remain in effect until the commission changes it or there is some other change in the law to make it inapplicable for example a charter amendment could accomplish that. >> thank you for your regard ha. stand stanthe . [please stand by]

finally, i'll talk through the next steps in the budget process and answer any questions you may have at that time. so generally, the budget process is -- begins today. but it doesn't really begin today. it started in december and even before that. so i'll come back to that, but today, what we're working with here, with you, is presenting for your input and approval the proposed preliminary budget submission and that goes to the mayor's office and the controller's office on february 21, which is a charter mandated deadline. and then march through may, we're working with the mayor's office on any initiatives that she may want to include or cut from our budget. and then we are also at the same time working with the capital planning committee, the committee on information technology and the mayor's

office on funding capital i.t. and vehicles. if we are so lucky, any positions that need to be added or new project funds requested by the department also get added in that phase as well. and then come june 1, the mayor submits her budget to the board of supervisors and then in june, we work furiously with the budget analyst office to talk about the details of our budget and what is in there, and what is not. and then the budget and finance committee hears that budget in late june, with a final adoption at the end of july. of the full budget. city-wide budget. so as the youth commission mentioned, the mayor's budget instructions included a 2% cut target in each of the fiscal years proposed, so it's a

two-year budget cycle. but we're in a rolling two-year budget, so we submit a new budget every year. and the cut target is the 2% in each of those years with a 1% contingency. and we at the department will not be submitting any cuts because, as you see, as we get into the details, those cuts would constitute cuts to position. so because 87% of our budget is people. in addition to those instructions, the positions added to the mayor requested no new positions added to the budget and required to find goals for programs and initiatives if we're submitting something, which as you know, we're not. the submission should be reflective of achieving equitable outcomes, long-term savings and cost avoidance. for us, that would include the

doj recommendations and other independent evaluations. so, to move into our proposed departmental phase budget, the 19-20 budget continues and sustains the work of the fiscal year 18-19 budget. the current year budget. really, it does that to address specific public safety priorities of san franciscans and it also uses and builds on the framework of the strategic plan through staffing, modernizing, through the collaborative forum initiative and with equipment. so i'm going to spend a little bit of time on this slide. you have an 11 by 17 handout that gives you a sense of in fiscal year, 18-19, we aligned all of our budget proposals as

we were discussing with the mayor's office with our strategic plan. so the slide itself is hard to read. i recommend you read the 11 by 17 document and those are available for the public as well. so the slide really demonstrates the methodology and thinking that went into prioritizing specific initiatives and those initiatives align both with our strategic plan and with the chief and mayor's priorities. so for example, you'll see that as we moved into budget conversations, we knew that we needed additional personnel to sustain h-sock as an operational model. so it's reflected in that gray box. you'll see two initiatives in the big gray box. it supports -- this is the second one where it says,

homelessness officer teams deployed by hsco in partnership with other agencies respond to 911. that not only speaks to the collaborate initiative, but the response initiative and alliance with the mayor's priority of homelessness and harm reduction. that's an example of the kind of work we did to align our budget with our strategic plan. so as we move into budget details, i'm going to talk about the revenue side and then i'll come back and talk about the expenditure side. the vast majority of our budget of revenue is general fund money to the tune of almost $523 million. the state revenues include public safety sales tax and that is almost the entirety of our state revenue, but that public

safety sales tax is $52 million. and then we also have a small amount of federal revenues and those go to dna testing and enforcement and that kind of work we've been doing for a long time. the other -- we also provide police services to other departments and they pay for those services. we collect fines, fees and charges which are a variety of find, fees and charges including a $1 surcharge on vehicle registration and our administrative fee as well. the other largest source of revenue for us is the police services we provide at the airport, so it's its own bureau, as you know, but the airport pays for the entirety of that bureau with their passenger fee

revenue. then moving onto the expenditure side, as i mentioned, 87% of the budget is people. it's salaries and benefits. and then we also have professional services, materials and supplies and capital expenditures as well as services paid to other departments. so in the same way that we perform services for other departments and they pay for the services, we also receive services from other departments and pay for those services. so in the professional services world, about half of that $15.5 million, it goes to rent, utilities and maintenance and litigation costs and judgment claims. so half of that budget is not even at our discretion. and then on top of that, for materials and supplies, the $6 million that we have available

to us, a million of that is really dedicated to crime lab supplies and testing kits. and then another $3 million, half of that budget, is uniforms and safety equipment. our capital expenditures, the capital outlay includes, this year, our furniture, fixtures and equipment for the crime lab. so we have to purchase in advance a lot of equipment in advance of moving into the new crime lab building. and so that money is in our budget starting in this -- in the 19-20 budget. this also includes $3 million for our body camera program. and then finally, just so you get a sense of the kind of order of magnitude that we are paying other agencies for their services, workers compensation

represents $18 million of our $53 million budget. our department of technology work order and telephone services is $13 million. and then rent and utilities is another $14 million and we have vehicle maintenance. again, vehicle maintenance is way down the list, only $5.8 million, and it's fuel charges, but compared to these other expenses, it's pretty small. okay. so back to the 87% of our budget. this slide shows our general fund and non-general fund budgeted ftes. you'll see the sworn budget is 2500 officers in the current year, increasing to 2621 sworn ftes in 19-20. you see the increase there stems

at the airport, a small -- another increase of 50 officers in the general fund. and then the additional academy recruits both for the airport and for the general fund that are budgeted there. and then civilian ftes are increasing in both the airport and in our department. in the general fund. i won't go into too much detail because i think i talked about this a little bit. our airport police bureau represents the biggest -- this is the slide that details the services that we provide to other agencies that they pay for. and so the vast, vast, vast majority of that is really the airport work order that we have with them. and their academy. so they pay for an entire academy class or two. and that is represented in

separate work order from the actual operations of the airport bureau. so in addition to those ongoing operational budget items that sustain and the work that we have put into -- sorry the budget that is 19-20 that sustains the proposed 18-19 increases, the departments, includes three kinds of requests that are zeroed out. we then have to ask anew each year. so for positions, and work orders and those sort of things, they flatline it, or give you an increase depending on the situation, but for these types of request, they give you a big zero and you have to start anew each year. first and foremost is cars. or equipment.

so, just to give you a sense again of our -- the condition of our fleet. still we have 143 marked patrol cars that crown victorias and ford stopped making these vehicles in 2011. so our goal is really to replace all marked crown vicks over the next two years. additionally, so equipment really is categorized as vehicles and anything that is $5,000 per item or more. so those in this -- we're making a variety of requests that total about $1.1 million and those include things like bomb suit replacements and replace -- and dogs. our dogs are slowly retiring. and so we need to start increasing those personnel as well.

another zero-based budget item are the i.t. projects. so we're requesting four projects in from the committee on information technology to finalize our crime data foundational project. so the idea here is really making sure we have redoundancy in all three of the environments we need in order to have a system that is highly functioning, highly available system. that is $1.1 million. we would like to make enhancements to our e citations system or app and that project would allow us to take a citation, even if there is no

cell service, and even if there is no cell service it still goes through. but able to submit the information once they're back online. for collisions, this is another request that we -- our collision system is in bad shape and this is really aligned with vision zero. so we're hoping to get $800,000 in each of the next two fiscal years in order to fully upgrade and implement and roll out a new collision system. and then finally, our evidence management system. so our property room doesn't -- we don't have a very robust method to track all of the evidence that we are in control of. and so this would modernize our property room and our ability to track evidence and make sure that we are monitoring it and

well aware of where everything is at a moment's notice. and then finally, the capital side of the world. that's the last zero-based budget item. our ten-year -- of course there is multiple ways that capital enhancements are funded. the biggest and pressing needs as you all may know are in the major seismic upgrades at several of our district station and then additional stations that need to be renovated or expanded to accommodate population growth and personnel growth. these projects are funded through the eitherer program and we have more than $100 million identified immediately in the 2019 bond that we're in need of. this does not go through the departmental submission, this goes through a separate process

discussed with the capital planning committee. we work with the planning capital group on that submission as well. and then finally, the capital projects that we're requesting this year are -- we talked about this a little bit already, this is also the other projects or supports that are leaving the hall of justice, whether we need technological improvements or otherwise to move into our new facilities. we want to take a look at our training facilities' needs and do a fuller assessment of what the needs are, so we can properly scope and plan for new facility down the road. and then annual facility maintenance for -- that are just ongoing needs for roofs and hvac

and security and sealing our building. finally, that concludes my presentation. our next steps are ongoing discussions with the mayor's office about any zero-based items that i've already talked about and any other initiatives or information the mayor's office is really looking for as we move that that march to may time frame. >> thank you. i want to tell the other commissioners that i saw this on the calendar friday when it was first posted and on monday i contacted the commission office and ultimately spoke to executive director maguire. i felt that the commission needs more time to study these budgets. that we really don't -- well we don't have the ability to dig behind the numbers you're giving us. we don't have the time to think through this and it's a complicated issue. i know you told me -- you're right, the charter is specific

about dates where things have to be completed and i know you have a february 21 date. so your pushback was -- we don't have the time right now. i understand and accept it for this year, but if i'm still around next year, i'm going to push hard and make sure we get this well in advance. i don't want to appear to be and i don't want to be a rubber stamp. we need to understand this. i'm not blaming, not questioning the validity of the budget itself, but it's not appropriate to present it to the commission where we have, i don't know, 20 minutes to think about it. so i really am going to urge the department to do whatever you have do so schedule this so we can get this a week or two weeks in advance, paper copy, so we can go through it and be prepared to ask questions. i'm not criticizing you for that. >> so you know, we go through

this every year. i see you every year. but there isn't any budget for the commission. she came to us on a grant, but you know, we really do need to have an independent policy analyst. we take the dpas and we rely heavily on ali-samra and a lot of our illumination comes when she comes before us, but we don't have an opportunity to look into these policies and give us what the best practice. so we've asked over and over again to have a position that works with the commission themselves. also, you know, we never talk about what this commission wants in terms -- >> i'm sorry. can i interject quickly? the position that she was on, we did make permanent in the budget. i believe, not last year, but the year before. so that position that you're hiring now is actually in the

commission's budget. >> we're hiring -- but is she a policy analyst? >> yes, exact same qualifications. >> okay, that's good to know. the other thing, though, in terms of this commission, in terms of any seminars, aid tending trainings -- attending trainings, anything in our area, working groups, in terms of recruitment of police officers, how to maintain police officers, the use of force and things like that, there is nothing in there for the commission. we never talk about what we need. we get all these reports and stuff, but in terms of furthering our own education and working with our own people, we don't do that. there is never -- again, before you do the budget, there is never any -- how do you say that -- never time set aside so the commission be included. there should be a portion included in the budget for the commission. that is something else we need to talk about. >> i'm just going to echo the

two previous comments of president hirsch. first, sitting here as you're going through it, i thank you for thoughtful and competent presentation, but you know, you're asking us to sign off on a $600 million budget with a very nice power point and -- is there a way we can do this where perhaps a group of commissioners can be part of the process before the meeting so they can have real input and feedback? and we can, as you -- the same exact thought came to my mind. i thought we're put in the position, we don't have a choice because of deadlines, but to rubber stamp something and i don't believe we're doing our duty as commissioners if we're acting simply as rubber stamps. is there a way do that next year? >>