that are causing concerns either through city agencies or neighborhoods and have gotten multiple citations -- not official citations but multiple notifications about them. most of those go through hsac and then gets consolidated. >> supervisor walton: and then having 33 individuals on the high priority list. now what are we doing with these 33 individuals. >> so it's very dependant on each case, what are the needs of each case and it's a care coordination plan and what services they're willing to receive right now and how we could get them to a point where they get more care and get into our system. >> supervisor walton: and then, when we set the care plan, and

let's say 20 of them decide to go with the plan that's in place but 13 don't accept services, or aren't looking to accept services, what happens then? >> we continue outreach and engagement. this is all about relationship building with the individual, so that never goes away. so we're going out there on a regular basis to check in and to make sure that the person is okay and hopefully develop a relationship over time where they will be willing to accept. >> supervisor walton: so also, if you can -- because i did hear something that i was definitely pleased about in the prevention early -- presentation earlier in the other room because i did hear director kozinski say sometimes we made assessments or we addressed some of the concerns not just based on 311 calls but on what we are seeing or what's

happening. and that definitely tells me that these are the -- these are the times where data is not always your friend. and i always talk about that because one, data has to be reliable. but two, there is something when you have people that see things going on consistently every single day that they feel should be addressed and somehow it doesn't show up in the data but it's definitely very real. so walk me through how, let's say you see something like i see every single day or when i walk out of my -- i either have just dropped off my youngest or i'm on my way to city hall and i'm going to meet -- my wife is texting me these photos of what she sees, and i'm like, are you my wife or are you a constituent right now? this is happening consistently. walk me through what do you do

when you see eight r.v.s parked on carroll street and they've been parked there -- maybe not the same eight, but walk me through how that experience works. >> sorry. do you want to take that? yeah. so -- all right. i guess i'm taking it. so yeah, the r.v. issue is a challenging one, and -- but it is also -- although it was characterized before we are not working on it, with you absolutely are working on it in earnest since october or november. we've deployed or encampment resolution team that are dealing with large tents to start dealing with people in vehicles. we are going to areas based on our eyeball tests or e-mails

from constituents or some of you. we are going to those vehicles and talking to the people and finding out what their needs are. if we find families, they are immediately offered shelter. if we see people that are medically compromised, and we have, we contact d. ph, and they have literally taken people from their r.v.s to san francisco general to get care. we have helped people. we ran into a family that was trying to get out of town, and we helped them get their vehicle fixed and we confirmed that they had somewhere they could go and stay in the northern part of california and helped them get a gas card and get them on their way. with others, we offered and they have accepted a place in navigation centers. the ones we're most concerned

about are people that don't own those vehicles but are squatting in them. they're often very unhealthily in there. for -- unhealthy. however, for folks that own their vehicles, for their desire to keep the vehicle, we're trying to problem solve with them. there's no one size fits all solution, but we have been very successful in getting a lot of people assistance. one gentleman i know just moved into housing two weeks ago that we started out working in your district, supervisor, who had been living in his vehicle for 10 or 15 years and was very ill and is now placed in permanent housing. it's a person by person approach. we have about 40 to 500 vehicles on -- 4 to 500 vehicles on the street.

it's not something that's so overwhelming that we can't approach this on a person to person basis. >> supervisor walton: it is a struggle when we talk about the levels of success when we talk about the levels of approaches, and then, we see similar issues and concerns from day-to-day. and so it is -- it is very frustrating when we are in crisis mode and there is a level of urgency to address issues, and it's not felt that the same level of urgency we see in our communities, the same level of urgency our constituents have is not being provided by the leadership of the city. and in this case, i'm talking

strictly about department heads because supervisor peskin is right. from my administrative lens, i definitely feel that there is so much happening operational in this city to where leadership of our departments has to push and push and push so things can be resolved and continue to work hard and be innovative. i'm definitely not saying that that's not happening, but i definite li definitely am saying that there's a balance between what the bureaucracy and departments see as success and what's actually happening out in the communities that we all live in. 528 -- i see the number of behavioral health beds. what's the need? does the number of beds we have match the need? i know the answer to that question, but i have to ask it.

>> so in terms of -- these are the beds that we added in 27 -- 18. we are working towards -- it's a good question, especially in this population in terms of how many of them can we capture and get into care? that is really where we want to develop the need? and i think we're still working on how best to measure that. collecting data on individuals, there's a lot of distrust with government. so again, it's like i said, developing those relationships on a one-to-one basis and working with that individual at that point in time. so a lot of it is trying to estimate what we're saying and estimating potential wait times and then trying to add. >> supervisor walton: and so also, when supervisor peskin was in the chamber, director kozinski, there was a question

that was asked about one of the sites in district three. i do have to drill down on the fact that, you know, we have colleagues, particularly in the districts that are most affected by navigation centers and shelters. we push our colleagues to help focus finding sites to work with their constituents to make things happen. so i definitely don't like hearing that there are sites that my colleagues have tried to work with your department onto try to activate as a navigation shelter, etc., and it hasn't been able to happen. and one of your responses was that the investment we put in, sometimes, the duration is not necessarily worth it if we know it's going to be short time. but i do know for a fact that

we have brought navigation centers into communities knowing or at least the impression that they wouldn't be there very long. we have been fortunate enough -- i'll give the example for the dogpatch site, there was only a guarantee for a small number of years, but after the residents in the surrounding community saw how successful things were working, they were supportive. i know everything about building and activating a navigation center is not just on h.s.h., but i do know if we're all fighting for the same things and working hard to make things happen that it sends a message to everyone. so if we have sites, and if they are temporary, it's

probably a better response to make it happen, not leaving people out on the streets and out of beds. i'm excited about any time i can see a space that we can activate. i had a few more questions, too, but i will yield time. i guess the one thing that i am trying to say here is we are all looking for you and all departments involved to say this is how we are going to address everything. not -- these are all the constraints. not these are all the obstacles in front of us, which we are all aware of. i know your job is hard. me and you talk about this often, about the complexity of your role and everything that you and your team have to deal with. i would not want your job, and i can say that publicly.

but i can also say that i'm more excited to hear about all the innovative things that your district is going to -- department is going to do. i don't care how innovative it is, if the city attorney is upset, i want to hear things that are going to help us solve the problem. are we talking to our school district and asking them, you've got a pilot program. how is that working? we should ask if the school district wants to expand that. that should be happening every single day with the school district and your department. are we really assessing every single vacant space that we have in san francisco, pushing department of real estate,

pushing mohcd -- our mayor always used to talk about public housing vacancies and what we're doing with those. i heard every excuse how it would not work, now i want to hear the excuse how it will work every time we hear the answer about something that might make sense because we have to be working from that standpoint in this crisis. so we're all frustrated. i do have faith in your team and your department, and i want you to start saying this is how we're going to do it, this is what we're going to do, and get us excited about rather talk about all the obstacles. if we focus on half empty, then none of us will be in this room, and i have high

expectations of all of you sitting over there. >> supervisor mandelman: you don't have to respond, but you can. >> yes, i would like to respond. first, about this issue around urgency, i will tell you, and this unfortunately feels like it's becoming personal, so i will just say personally, you know, i've been doing this work for 32 years, two years, seven months, and 28 days working for the government. most of my work has been starting out as a case manager and working in the nonprofit sector. this is what i do, this is why i wake up in the morning, and that our sense of urgency, and i'm sorry if we're not j projecting that, but i go into the hospital on the weekend and visit with client, and i go into the office and see my staff working on sunday afternoon. not management staff, staff coming in on their own because they care so much. we have opened up more shelter

beds and more permanent supportive housing since our department forms. if you go back and look historically at the rate at which shelter beds and housing and navigation centered confirmed, you will see a spike. putting prevention and diversion as front and center in the system, this is not as simple as just let's open up more shelter beds or let's open up something. as i said earlier between 2005 and 2015, we nearly doubled the amount of money we invested in homelessness. we have more money in permanent housing in san francisco than any other city in the united states. we invested a great deal of money but we never built a system that made sense. we are struggling to add more housing but building a system that works for people experiencing homelessness but

that works for people living in this community and experiencing homelessness. so when we work at a site and say, this is going to work or not, we're evaluating against what else can we do with that money? and then, the last thing i just want to point out is that mayor breed, who talks to me every day and has the same sense of urgency that we have on this issue is the move toward something called safe centers, is taking this idea of navigation centers, but they also need to be cost effective, scaleable, and sustainable. so the safe center model is a little bit different from the navigation center model, but we are doing work that will lead

to a solution of homelessness and help as many people as we possibly can. rest assured we have expanded a great deal. the problem is incredibly urgent. 150 newly homeless people a week coming into the city with 50 people that we're able to help house every week, including shelters, but also including shelters, data and supervision, and new supportive housing. i'm sorry that we haven't been able to educate people or showing how hard they're working. if it anybody ever questions that, i suggest you stop by on sunday or late at night and look at all the workers there at h.s.h. i think the urgency is there,

and i think what -- what would be helpful is that we could identify sites. we -- you know, and i think supervisor ronen and i disagree on a lot of things, but having your support or any supervisor's support on a site, we are more than willing to go and make that happen. 1515 vanness was an already built box, so it was cheap to make that happen. taking a parking lot and bringing in utilities that would cost millions of dollars to do is a completely different thing. we need to make sure we use our resources as effectively as we possibly can. >> supervisor walton: i justify want to go back to -- just want to go back to the glass as

always half full. this is not an attack personally on you, but i've said a lot, and my colleagues have said a lot. focus on the positive thing i said. i have my faith in your team and you having the ability to do this. we just want to push you to do that. >> supervisor mandelman: thank you, supervisor walton. i am aware of the fact that director kozinski was going to need to leave at 12:30. i do have some questions for him myself, but if supervisor haney and stefani have questions for director kozinski, maybe ask those, and i'll try to get off before the end. sorry. it's going to be ten minutes of more of the jeff show. >> supervisor haney: through the chair, i'll defer to you and then i'll continue. a lot of my questions are about hsac. >> supervisor mandelman: all right. okay. well -- and i will have

questions for some of the other folks later on and particularly about some of the obstacles. we haven't talked about my constituents contact 311 and they report things and maybe it clears up for a while, but then, the tents go and the people stay. there are some philosophical statements about shelter and how much shelter the city should have that i want to explore with director kozinski because the city has changed its mind a lot about this. we significantly reduced our shelter bed capacity in the previous administration based on the concept that we should be promoting permanent housing.

if we shelter somebody overnight, it doesn't solve the problem. and that what you want to do is reduce shelter bed capacity, shift those dollars into creating supportsive housing units -- supportive housing units. my sense is that what the city did, and we got undersheltered for what the need is in the city, that there was a strong reaction against that from this board, primarily led by -- not this board because they're new, but from the board of supervisors saying no, they need to be off ramps, and the offramps folks started working on were navigation centers. is we're not -- there are 100 new people who say on any given

night, if you give them a shelter bed, they'll come in. it seems like much of our ability to enforce or reasons we'll -- for reasons we'll explore later are also related to our ability to real shelter. i know the mayor has committed to another -- to building out 1,000 more shelter beds. is -- should we -- i think most san franciscans believe we should have shelter for everyone who's willing to come off the streets. is that a goal and talk about anything in there that seems worthy of discussion to you? >> yeah. i'm not sure about the dramatic shelter reduction under the new administration, but i grie, i think you're implying that wasn't the right move.

the answer is we need to do both. it cannot be either/or, or we're going to end up with a shelter system full of people that we cannot find housing for. when the department started, one of the things we did was data modelling with how many more shelter beds we needed, and we came up with the figure of 1100 more shelter beds. i think the 1,000 beds that -- sorry, and we have opens 450 now shelter beds. we need another 800 beds. i think that gets us close to where we need to be, but i also believe that that could change, and that's why we have this new

data system in place where we need to be tracking on a regular basis demands for things. we've got a much better handle on the demand for family shelter than we did, and we need to do that same thing -- i think we also need to figure out how to be flexible about the use of space, about shelters that serve the needs of adults need to be flexible. there's shelters in other places where there's movable walls. if there's a large family demand, you can move a wall and you've got more spaces for families, etc. i agree we're on the right path, and that we need more shelter beds, but we should have seen that back in the day. i was here then, and i think the belief was this was going to solve problems, and it ourned out that it -- turned out that it solved many for many people, but it did not

solve the issue of street homelessness, and we're seeing that all over the state and the west coast. >> supervisor mandelman: thank you. and i realize you've got about three minutes. this morning, we've heard some of the challenges that you and your department have faced in trying to get these things setup. even with budget, as supervisor ronen has said, the navigation center has been hard. i want to thank you for working with me on looking at whether there might be options for nav centers or other options for folks with navigation centers in d.h., but there is a question if we are going to be able to reach a point in the immediate foreseeable future or soon future of having the shelter bed capacity that we need. meanwhile, there are these impacts in our neighborhoods,

and one thought that some have talked about that the coalition has partially embraced is the idea that during periods of wet weather -- i know we're going to have a wet weather hearing coming down in a few weeks, but either in wet weather or at all times, if we don't have shelter for people. we should at least have a place where they can be where they're going to be asked to keep moving block to block to block, doorway to doorway. supervisor peskin suggested various large public facilities that we might be able to use for large public response that would be cheap relative to a shelter bed but would give people a place to be for some period of time. the question to me, given the humanitarian crisis that we have on our streets and the existential crisis that we have is whether we shouldn't be exploring that kind of triage

approach in some way. >> i'm sorry. can you define a little bit more of a triage approach. >> supervisor mandelman: well, it could be sanctioned encampments. it could be something in the period where we do not have shelter beds, we do not have places to direct you to go. the city, we can't solve this problem. should we be offering a lesser level of safety where you can go someplace that will be safe. maybe you can pitch your tent there. maybe we give your tent there. maybe there's bathrooms, maybe there's showers. that is not -- that does not cost as much -- nearly as much as a shelter. it doesn't offer the same kinds of services, but is that something -- and i know some other cities have explored this. what are your thoughts on -- whether we call them sanctioned encampments or whatever we want to call them, that lower model of care and the interim solution until we have the shelter beds that we need? >> i think shelter beds are

sort of the lower level care and interim solution in people getting into housing. how do you make them bigger, how do we do it faster and for less money? i think that is the preferred approach. i think h.u.d. -- i was speaking to some of my colleagues at h.u.d. about this. i was just curious, if we have folks at encampments, are they sheltered or unsheltered? they said no, they're unsheltered because you need to be giving people electricity, heat, an indoor place to be and running water and not have people outdoors and call it, you know, interim level of care. i think there are some challenges around it. in my discussions with the city attorney, there's currently no -- we would have to go to the planning department. i was unable to talk to them before this hearing. i mean, there's a lot of challenges with doing a sanctioned encampment.

i personally feel we can do better with that. we can provide people and should provide people with an indoor place to be, so i'd rather see interim, you know, solutions which is what we're doing, opening up more shelters in a way that's more cost effective. >> i agree with that. it's just that the pace is slow, and the reality is -- and the reality for people that are being moved who sort of are having these sort of daily engagements with police, outreach workers, angry neighbors is involved. >> i know we have also put forward an ordinance that will allow us to greatly speed up the process through which we're able to open new facilities. mayor breed's been working with us for quite sometime on a new emergency ordinance that i think will make things go faster and i think that's very important.

many departments feel like that's important and that will help with our sense of urgency. i can probably wind it out for a little bit more, but i just -- i probably will have to jet out of here, i want you to know, first of all, the public, i will go back and watch all public comment. i apologize deeply for not being able to stay and hear it, but some of our staff is here, as well. we will absolutely listen to and, thank you for hearing it. i have to go to another emergency hearing on this ordinance before the planning commission, which is why i'm needing to exit this. if it ends quickly, i certainly will come back to join you. so again, my apologies to the public and to all of you. >> supervisor mandelman: thank you, director kozinski for coming in here today. >> thank you. [please stand by]

. >> >> supervisor stefani: and ask more of our other hospitals to get to what i think is a public health crisis with those

who are experiencing psychiatric conditions every day on our streets. so again, thank you for your time that you've given me last year. >> thank you for the question, and i'll just give an answer. i'm sure dr. bob will want to answer, as well. never, when we encounter a client, will we throw up our hands and point the finger at another department, but our department does not provide machine tall health and public health services. what we do is work closely with the department of public health. one of the things that i really love about hsac is there are three components. there's responding to hot spots, and also, it's about working with the hardest to serve population and we have had some, like, unbelievable successes, that i've been trying people long before i got this job into housing and were able to make it happen because

of the dramatically improved situation. it was barbara garcia and i haven't to be on the telephone. i enjoyed working with her, but that's not a sustainable model trying to work with these people with incredible needs. we've institutionalized that desire with hsac, and yes, we need more access to beds, but mayor breed has been pushing that, as well, to make more treatment for folks. ideally, we would have substance abuse treatment on demand for individuals, but what we're doing is using what we have as effectively as possible. and yes, the department of public health used to have 800 direct access to housing beds that are now part of the h.s.h. portfolio, but i think the part that's missing in that is that the other thing that's different about the h.s.h. portfolio is we are now prioritizing the sickest and longest term homeless people into housing, many of whom are

d. ph patients or on their hums list. not only do we have 800 beds that are available for those parents, we have the whole 7700 units in the portfolio which are being prioritized for the sickest individuals and individuals with the greatest needs. thank you. >> supervisor mandelman: that's it, vice chair stefani? >> supervisor stefani: yes. >> supervisor mandelman: supervisor haney? >> supervisor haney: thank you, director kozinski, i know you have to go. and thank you to all the folks who presented every day, and both the folks that are here and out here in the field. this is both the most urgent and devastating crisis that we face here in the city.

in many ways, it's a human rights crisis, and i want to appreciate all of my colleagues who spoke so eloquently about the need for urgency as a city, and the willingness to step up in your own neighborhoods, your own districts, to do what we possibly can. i hope you heard that this department is wants to be -- board is wanting to be a partner, whether that's opening new points, allocating new money. i think we really feel the urgency from our constituents and make sure that all of us are stepping up and making sure we're building housing and shelter in our city. i have some questions about the presentations and about hsac. i do want to say because i think it's important, when i read the title for the hearing, city policies to reduce

homelessness in residential neighborhoods, i want to underscore on behalf of the people i represent that district six, especially the neighborhood, the tenderloin and soma, are incredibly dense residential neighbor. sometimes when we talk about residential neighborhoods, we are not talking about the tenderloin and soma. tenderloin has -- is the most dense neighborhood in san francisco in terms of the number of people that live there. what i don't want to see is solutions that sort of push people out of some neighborhoods into district six, look the other way and say that we solved the problem. i want to see the same level of urgency for the people that are on the streets in the tenderloin and soma as we see every where else, and i think that's critical as we think about this problem. in some cases, some of the

approaches around encampment resolutions are sweeps that move people to some neighborhoods where there may be more 311 calls, there may be more neighbors that are calling, etc., that that can lead to more folks coming into the tenderloin where they're not getting continued outreach and support. so i just wanted to underscore there, as well, as we talk about what a residential neighborhood is. when it comes to hsac, there's a couple of things that i really want to drill down on. one is how we are measuring our success. i'm a little surprised to see so many slides here that say hsac's success tents reduction. i'm wondering why tent reduction is the main way why we're describing what our success is. one, i don't even understand how we're measuring the number of tents on the street.

can you take someone's tent and say we've reduced a tent? that's one question i have here, but in addition to that, you could get rid of a tent and still have somebody who's on the street, still have somebody who is potentially in an even more desperate situation. i can tell you where i live in the tenderloin, we see a lot of people who have a piece of card board over them who are with a blanket at best. i don't think any understanding of success that we would look to that and say we're doing a good job. in many ways, we may be putting people in a more dangerous situation in that case. i'm wondering why we're looking at tents as opposed to placing human beings in shelter or services as a sign of our success. just as a general point, what

sort of data are we actually collecting? on page 18, we're talking about the healthy streets intervention program, the thing i would want to know is how many people are we interacting with, who is interacting with them, because our goal is to actually have folks who are from public health or social workers out there, are they the ones actually doing this, what are they being officered -- wh are the rates of placement on those offers, and are we giving folks citations? there's a whole section of questions i have about citations here. but the overall set of data that should say programs are

successful should say we are getting folks into shelter services and actually having some more permanent solution to their situation, which is one that we all agree is unacceptable. so those questions i don't see addressed here, and that comprehensive data. what i see is a lot of data will reduction in tents -- about reduction in tents. could mean because somebody got into a better situation. could actually be a bad thing if we are reducing tents without actual shelter being provided. and i have a couple more questions but if maybe you could address that first. >> supervisors, the most important part of our

presentation because we really can't do our work as you so eloquently put, supervisor haney, without a viable alternative that is going to work for them. this is not the kind of system that can kidnap people. we are not out there, making arrests first. in fact to make a difference on the street, we need to open up new navigation centers, we have to create pathways to housing, we have to transform lives. that's how we reduce tents. as all of us know, a tent is $20 at target. it's not something that's a solution or an obstacle to acquiring a new one. we have to work with the person in that tent, and that's what we are doing together at hsac. you know this -- the other stuff that we've been over is not simple, but it's necessary

to open up new facilities and to design good programs that meet with the needs of people experiencing homelessness. so the behavioral health and other kinds of interventions that are -- are listed here, i can give to my colleagues from the public health to talk about. >> sure. so the behavioral health beds that have been added over this last year include hummingbird beds, which is our navigation center that is low barrier for people that are experiencing mental health or substance use disorders. this is on the campus of san francisco general and it's been so successful that we've expanded it for this fiscal year. we've also added beds at the healing center, which is located at st. mary's, and that was a clx through multiple different health service systems, so ucsf, st. mary's,

as well as a team of providers that provide care at the healing center for some of the most highly complex issues around this that have mental health issues. those were the main beds that were added this year. and those expansions will continue this year. the other expansions is a step down from substance use. we are adding 72 beds for step down which will add a little bit more flow to the system. >> supervisor haney: i appreciate everything that's being added and obviously as folks have talked about, we feed to add a lot more. maybe this information isn't immediately available right now. i think this is critical to know if you're collecting this data. if you are collecting data for hsoc, who did you interact with, what were they offered?

what did they accept if they were offered something, were they placed? that to me is the fundamental question of success or not success, whether tents are disappearing from our streets can be for a variety of reasons. it doesn't tell me -- i think our residents, people who are living on the streets, people in our neighborhoods, everybody deserves these type of of answers, particularly if we're saying this is a successful approach to getting people help. this is about getting people services, except i'm not seeing anything that actually tells me that the support and help that people are getting, where they're going, who's offering it to me. that to me is a fund amountal question if we're assessing a program, and it's important not just to understand whether this is working, but it's also to understand where the gaps are, we heard a lot of things about people who aren't sepg stuff and all this. if we're not identifying as policy makers where the need

it, i can't just be told with what is happening with tents or what beds are being added, i need to know what's actually happening on the streets and what people need and what we're able to deliver them because it's not there, and i'm unable to do that based on what you've shown us today. >> my name is sigh mmon payne. i'm a captain with the san francisco fire department. i'm part of a team that works with frequent 911 utilizers. it's a small team, a high performance team. we are that team that we're an action oriented team. we started working with hsoc in january at the invitation of commander lozar. your question is who are the people that are actually doing the work. so let me just say, we -- we

work side by side with the homeless outreach team, so first, the homeless outreach team, let me just say they work very hard, they're dedicated, they're having trouble retaining their members. it's hard work. they're very poorly paid. in addition, i know that there's a felton outreach team led by d. ph, and there's us, the fire department team. let me just say we've been measuring of all the people transported by ambulance and by the fire department who has an identifiable home address. and in 2018, there were over 42,000 individual people who utilized 911. over 30% of those people did not have an identifiable home address, so we're talking close

to 15,000 people that the san francisco fire department emergency services transports to hospitals that are homeless. that's why we exist. now of those people we have identified. of those 42,000 people that are transported to hospitals, 2.5% of them are frequent 911 utilizers. what we mean by that is are people that use 911 over ten times a year. so that 2.5% of the population of 911 utilizers. they account for 19.75% of the total resources of the san francisco fire department. that's an incredible disproportionate number. now e.m.s. 6, what we do is we essentially do ad hoc case management. we go meet people at the hospital on the scene of an emergency, we get to know them, we build up a relationship with them, then, we go find them on

the street, and we -- we asset them daily if they want to go to alcohol or substance detox. we find them case management. it's very, very difficult work. now, we've had very good success, and every month in 2018, on average, the top 209 # #-the top 20911 utilizers -- we're talking about people that use 911 more than ten times a year, we're going out to them, and those are the people that are actually meeting the people. >> supervisor haney: thank you. and i definitely appreciate the work that your department does and the e.m.t.'s and

firefighters. i see you all out, and i know that you are the front line responders in any case. i have -- do you want to, before i -- commander lozar? >> yeah. supervisor haney. in terms of the data, i know we've talked about tend encampments here today, but what are we doing -- what are the numbers on how many people we're connect is? every day, we're working to connect folks to our services, navigation centers. i know we're going to talk more about the policing aspect, but whether we're getting people connected with shelter, but our every day outreach workers and shelters are trying to get people to the resources that are available. i talked earlier about the training. the more training our officers are receiving, the more they're able to connect people with services. the hsip that we presented on, officers every day are asking people to go to the casc and get connected with drug

treatment. once a week, we have an eight-hour operation where we're working very hard to get people in lieu of taking them to the county jail, taking them to the casc and getting them connected with an outreach worker. so that is evolving, and you're absolutely right. the controller's office has done an incredible job of tracking the data. but as you're talking, i'm agreeing, we need to present that data. it's more than just cleaning up encampment, and i look forward to the encampment conversation, but we're doing a lot to help people. that's what we're doing every day. >> supervisor haney: thank you. and i know that we're also going to have another hearing next thursday where we'll be able to continue this conversation and maybe some of those details can be brought to that hearing. i just want to say a couple

more things that i'll leave out there, and then i'm sure that other people have things to say. i do think that this data -- particularly if we're bringing all this under one roof, and there's a coordination in that situation, one of the benefits that we should have is added benefits and analysis of who's doing what, etc., there's other pieces to this, though, which you identified, which is it seems that hsoc is mainly focused on the larger encampments, and one thing that was striking to me is what about the smaller one or two people, certainly in a lot of parts of my district and soma, who is doing the direct outreach to folk nz that situation, to individuals in that situation? what are they being offered, the type of training, all of the things that come with the more likely interaction that

we're seeing? as a part of that, and that's part of why i'm wondering who's doing that. i know law enforcement's playing a really central role in this, but i want to know how we can get people whose job it is to get them to lead the response? i think are -- i want to make sure we've got the other folks that are out there, trained clinical professional outreach workers that are leading the response. i think that's likely to get the more effective outcomes. i can't tell from what i'm looking at here what the balance is in terms of who's doing it, and i appreciate the fire department putting that out there and what type of training that go -- that is

needed around that. two other things, but i would like to know more about the property confiscation. under what circumstances is property confiscated. we haven't heard that. and then, also strategies around the barricades. in my neighborhood along hyde street, we pretty much have barricades everywhere. it looks like you're kind of in a war zone. is that a permanent solution to some of the these issues? i'm wondering how that fits into this and whether that's sending the right message in terms of our commitment to lead with services and support and really the fundamental long-term solutions for people rather than pushing them from one area to another area to another area. i recognize this is very complicated work, but one of the most important things we

can do is have all the information and data so that we can understand what's happening and then fight for the resources and policy changes to make sure that we're more effective. >> supervisor mandelman: thank you, supervisor haney. i should say for those of you who may be here for the second item on our agenda, coordination of homeless services across multiple departments, in lieu of -- or in view of the time, i think when we get to that point, supervisor vice chair stefani is going to suggest that we continue it until the 14th. so that second hearing is likely to be on the 14th, if there's anyone here who's here for that hearing, and i apologize, but just given how long this is taking, we probably -- to give that one its due, that'll be a separate date. >> clerk: mr. chair, to address that, we will still call that item, and we will

still have public comment as it was agendaized. >> supervisor mandelman: so people, if they want to speak on it, will still be able to speak on that. >> supervisor ronen: i just likely wanted to follow up on supervisor haney's line of questioning. i do want to recognize because i've been really tough today how difficult this is. on the one hand i know that you really want to help people that are in dire straits. on the other hand, there is not only so much pressure on us as elected officials, but on you, the neighbors and owners of small businesses that are impacted by this crisis, so you're having to balance responses. i do want to recognize how

challenging that is, and i think that the way that this hearing was framed, you know, would have led to believing it was more about responding to the housed residents, and so we got some of the data that, like, sort of kind of shows that, how many -- you know, how 311 calls climb and things loolike that. but i think to solve the problem, we need the data that supervisor haney is asking for, so i just wanted to recognize that. but i do want to drill in because hsoc is leading the efforts in the city, a little bit of the nuts and bolts about what happens. what's so important here is the way that we designed sort of the precursor to hsoc because i was very smofd in the mission district, when we were offering someone services to move into the nav gas station center, we weren't offering them a day or

seven days or 30 days, we were offering them a spot in the navigation center until we could find housing for them. so i at the time was saying this is a safe, dignified really person-centered place where we're offering really robust services and help, so if a person chooses not to accept those services, then -- then we can say it's not okay to camp on the streets. but it was because we were offering something real and genuine on the back end. what i'm afraid has happened is that what we've now done is taken that model, and we've said, if we offer you a night or seven nights in a navigation center, then, we're going to take your tent, and we're not going to allow you to sleep on

the streets -- or sleep in this spot. we're going to push you to a different neighborhood, which is not the same thing as the model that we were trying to create. i don't think you can short shift this. because if i was sleeping in a tent on the street and i was offered seven days in a navigation center, and i was going to give up my security system and my belongings, and the spot that i feel comfortable in for the moment, the rational choice is not to accept that. the rational choice is if i'm going to be back out on the street in seven days, then i'm not going to accept this to begin with. so that's my question, how we're doing things now and what we're really offering people as an alternative on the streets. [please stand by]

. >> there's debates about whether we should be doing this work or not, but in the meantime, we are, and there is a need to get things done in the city and get people connected to the best of our ability. our procedures are pretty straightforward. when officers encounter individuals in