we are proposing. if we would make that change, we would like to make it to 2018 when the last mural was installed. that wouldn't be reflected in the ordinance, that would be a change in the designation report. we can discussion that after my presentation or after public comment, if you'd like, but the department has determined that the subject building meets establishment eligibility requirements and landmark status is warranted. the department recommends that the h.p.c. recommend landmark designation to the board of supervisors including any amendments it deems necessary. should the h.p.c. choose to recommend landmark designation today, the nomination would be forwarded to the board of supervisors for final consideration. this concludes my presentation. i'm happy to answer any questions. in addition, we have a representative from supervisor ronen's office who would like to say a few words.

>> thank you. did the city attorney's office already review this -- the amendments and has approved it? >> yes, president matsuda. austin yang, deputy city attorney. we've reviewed the proposed amendments. >> thank you. can we ask the commission to wait for comments, and we'd like to ask if supervisor ronen's office, miss morales, would like to say a few words. >> good afternoon, commissioners, carolina morales, legislative director for supervisor ronen. we were here when this first was introduced. thank you for hearing this item today. the supervisor remains supportive of landmarking galeria de la raza and

designating this institution and its long history in the neighborhood. it is very important that this building is landmarked because it has housed a very important space for the latino community not only in the neighborhood but also in the whole city, in the city of san francisco. i believe this will be the first latino landmark in the neighborhood, is that correct, desiree? so i think that's of very particular significance, and especially protecting that rotating mural would be very important because it provides a space for latino voices and latino needs to be constantly updated and displayed in the middle of the cultural district and in the middle of the neighborhood, so i hope that you can move this item forward, and i look forward to hearing your comments and questions and learning more about this very important building. thank you. >> thank you, miss morales. i'm going to bring it back to

the commission. >> i have a question, actually. my question is about that section you just read on page five, which i think was 31-h, where it says sign measuring the dimensions which will determine, i'm just wondering about that word, sign, is this meeting the planning code definition of a sign or should it say sign frame? i just seems to me -- it just seems to me, the definition in the planning code is different than what we're encompassing. >> yeah. i think that's a question for the city attorney so we can get clarification. >> sure. deputy city attorney austin yang.

really, i think it -- the zoning administrator is the one to interpret the code. i don't believe what's been presented would meet the definition of a sign, but i would defer to the zoning administrator on that. but a text amendment is along the lines of what commissioner pearlman mentioned about a structure or something otherwise would also be fine. all right. thank you. >> thank you. commissioner johns? >> is the purpose and intention of c-1-h to require the building owner to allow changing posters or murals on that sign frame? that calls for a yes or a no

answer. >> well, it's a little more complicated because currently the galeria de la raza and the property owner -- it's potential there might be an opportunity to engage in a situation where the mural is rotated out, as it has been historically, but that's not been decided yes either way. >> what if a galeria de la raza wants to put up a mural, and the property owner doesn't want that mural put up? >> well, it's the property owner -- they own the building, so there's no -- the galeria or the city or anyone else cannot force any changes to that -- to the mural, so it would really be, like, a private agreement that would need to take place? >> i take it the answer would be in that case the property owner could prevent the poster or mural from being posted.

>> yes. >> all right. could other people in the community post or ask the property owner for permission to post murals? >> sure, my understanding. >> do you, mr. yang, concur with that? >> i'm sorry. question was whether other individuals in the neighborhood could ask the property owner to put up a new mural? >> yes. >> i don't see why they wouldn't, but they would still have to comply with the landmarking designation if this were to go through. >> in other words, they need a certificate of appropriateness, which is our entitlement. >> does that mean that every time there is to be a new mural

there must be a certificate of appropriateness? >> that is correct. >> that is -- i thought it was just the opposite. >> well, it -- to specify, though, it -- and i believe this is the section 5 on the last page of the ordinance, and deputy city attorney, please correct me if i am wrong, but my interpretation is it's clarifying that the city's purview over the frame is -- is not related to content, it is related to the -- the existing mural when whether it's alternated, obscured, etc. that would trigger the c of a, but the staff would not be reviewing the content on the site. >> so if the proposal's to remove the canvas, that would require the c of a.

a c of a does last three yea years -- two years. >> but i take it on what you have -- based on what you have said, if the property owner wished to have a blank canvas in that space, the property owner could do that. >> that is correct. >> well, i think that this c-1-h raises very important issues, and which is why i went into this in such detail, and i think that we ought to be very careful to -- so that not just those present today but those who will deal with this in the

future are aware that we are landmarking an object and we are not attempting to require, we are not attempting to impinge on free speech rights or to require the landlord to post murals to which the landlord objects. since that is what this addition means, i am supportive of it. but if it doesn't mean that, i wouldn't be. >> yeah, and we've been working with the city attorney's office on the language that we proposed, and it's basically for those reasons that you brought up. >> this is city attorney.

-- does the city attorney want to make further comment on that? >> no, i think staff has made appropriate inquiry on that. >> okay. commissioner johns, do you want to make further comment? >> yes. on that particular issue. that same paragraph that's added such as the maze digital mural just installed -- you just said something about a painted mural on canvas. a digital -- >> digitally printed on canvas. >> digitally printed. okay. so if i'm understanding this, and it's still, i think,

confusing, does that mean to say it can be commercial advertising? i'm just wondering why we're adding this because it sounds like it has to be this. >> no. the intent is to clarify the preceding language and what we mean by the bill board location and the mural. >> as an example. >> as an example. >> okay. so it is clear when this mural is taken down, no one has to get a c of a because we're replacing the maze because that's just an example. i mean, it seems so specific to put into legislation. >> actually, it's the opposite. we're saying it's a canvas right now which has a maze on it which could change. but if the canvas comes down, that would require a c of a. >> okay. well, that's definitely not

clear. that's definitely not clear because we're talking about clips and a frame, and now, we're talking about canvas, you know, what -- i just -- you know -- >> commissioner, if i can -- sure. if i can -- >> -- you know, change that. they have to go to the owner, say, i want to paste that on there. >> commissioner, if i may, the intent is to clarify that the city is not interested in regulating content in speech within that frame. >> sure. >> so that's why we were trying to give an example of what -- you know, what's existing there now. however, because this canvas is

still a tableau or canvas we were existing to clarify what the commission's purview or what the city's purview would be which would mean if there's an alteration to this bill board structure, whether that's covering it up, changing it in any way, the commission are not -- >> i understand that. i asked the same question. if someone comes in and wants to paint over what's there now, that's okay, and you're saying no, it's not. >> no, we're saying a c of a is required, but it's up to this commission in its deliberations to determine if that meets the character and the intent of the features of the building. >> to paint over the new mural requires a -- >> so a paint doesn't trigger a building permit. so permit -- it was what

triggers the c of a process. >> okay. so if somebody wanted to come -- if the property owner wants to come in and remove this bill board structure, you would need a c of a. >> okay. so i just wanted to be very, very clear here. >> it might be that it would be useful to explain that in h, that there is no attempt here to control the content of murals in that location. >> that's a very good point. if the commission is willing, we would be willing to work with the city attorney to clarify that intent. >> well, it would make me more comfortable. >> so clarifying language to not cover content. >> i think in section 5, when i

read sign containing the mural, i think oh, if you're saying sign containing the mural, that's not -- >> does that make sense, miss smith? >> yeah. i think it's not a sign, this is a sign structure that we're protecting. >> okay. >> city attorney's office, is that okay, to provide that clarifying point? >> yes, it sounds fine. we'll have to see the language, but -- >> okay. commissioner johnck? >> i'd like to also clarify that the only -- what we would be doing -- i think what we're

doing here is to ad clarification to sign structure. >> okay. any other comments by the commission before we open -- open it up to public comment? okay. opening it up to public comment, you have a few speaker cards -- i have a few speaker cards. brook oliver, and then, helena c cardona, and then, elizabeth blancas. >> my name is brook,

b-r-o-o-k-e, oliver, o-l-i-v-e-r. i'm appearing as counsel for galeria de la raza gli think tt everybody knows what is being protected here from a historic standpoint is this is a community mural. we're not protecting a sign or a bill board, what we're trying to protect is the historical status of that being an expression of latino culture that is incredibly important in that community and has been there for 50 years so that i would suggest that the nomenclature, rather than sign, be rotating mural, and that the frame be referred to as a mural frame. in fact, historically, when the company that owned that bill board turned that and dedicate it had to public -- turned it

over to public art at the request of citizens and artists, it's always been for public purposes, and that is in great part what is being protected. what's being protected isn't a bill board frame, and it isn't a sign, it's a mural and a mural frame. it's a frame of a piece of art, and galeria de la raza created that frame and made that frame and installed it and has maintained the lighting at its own expense. we're in negotiations with the building owner through their attorney -- we invited them to a meeting but unfortunately they chose not to attend that meeting -- about how that space to be curated collaboratively, and we hope very much that we'll be able conclude those negotiations so that the content can be curated and protected by an appropriate arts collaboration to fit into

the latino cultural district, but we agree that that's not necessarily part of what needs to be legislated here, that that is a private designation, and the landmark designation will address that. we hope the certificate of appropriateness will take into account the fact that this is in the latino cultural district and that we can continue that historical legacy. thank you very much. >> thank you. helena cardona? >> hello. my name is helena cardona.

i attend the california college of the arts since 2017. [inaudible] >> and has instilled in me a sense of sensibility for socially committed work that affects the society of the mission district. they gave me the opportunity to work on real, tangible projects that actually heal and build our community. i learned to build up ownership of not only my creativity but of my values and voice. galeria has taught me what it means to breach my voice and urbanism.

they have be it is now my duty to advocate for galeria, for the space that has fought and experienced firsthand the effects of gentrification and displacement. we need to stop incentivizing and celebrating the tech group and stop providing them with economic entitlement that puts out the disadvantaged, the poor, and the minorities. again, i urge you to support the historical landmark designation in the mission district. thank you. >> thank you. elizabeth blancas? >> hello, everyone. my name is elizabeth blancas. i am an ethnic studies major, i

am a muralist, and i am also a volunteer and interim coordinator at galeria de la raza. i first walked through the doors in the summer of 2014 as a young chicana fresh out of high school with a passion for my art and finding my community. galeria de la raza was the first space where i saw the first possibilities where my identities and passion could quickly intersect. i began commuting from my home in hayward to the mission district because i deeply needed a space that not only affirmed my place in the world but was a space to gather with artisted, activists, and others in the community. i urge you to vote in favor of the historical landmark designation to ensure that the corner of 24th and bryant

continues to be a site where people can find their home. it's been a beacon of light for young people to find their place in the home to find a space to gather and celebrate the rich heritage that galeria de la raza suffered. thank you. >> thank you. annie rivera, and then, after annie rivera, victor castro. >> good afternoon, commissioners. thank you. it's great to sue you all again. i just want to sort of reiterate a couple pieces and read from a letter that i submitted, and on behalf of galeria, i just want to express support for historical designation. this historical designation would celebrate the accomplishments of over 600-plus visual and recording

artists whose work has helped create galeria de la raza and to the thousands of patrons that have researched and were influenced influenced by the community that it's been in for the last 48 years. both the interior and exterior is a place for materially cultural significance. it would allow us the honor of memory to have ceremony to celebrate the iconograph rethat has been created in that space. so we're requesting respectfully and kindly that the strongest historical designation move forward so that we can honor this historical treasure. i also want to take sometime to address just briefly some of the arguments that we saw that were submitted in opposition to the designation a.

and i just want to say for the record, galeria de la raza has made several win-win attempts to bring designation situations to the building. we have been working to the family, and we urge the family to please reach out, to please listen to our proposal. we want to allow and make this space continue to be in public use, to be a space of public memory, of celebration? and so i want to outline what galeria de la raza's willing to do forward. this might not be of interest to you, but i want the family to hear it on record? galeria de la raza's willing to assume the obligation of the mural curation moving forward to choosing the artist, doing the installing, deinstallation and following on the educational programs associated with the digital mural project. we are willing to continue management of the lighting,

providing safety in that corner and making sure that the lighting systems are maintained on an ongoing basis? we are willing to provide the mural insurance for the piece, making sure that it's, you know, taken care of as the families' and our needs and protecting everyone involved? and we feel that this designation is a necessary step that will guarantee that future generations will have this platform and this piece of history will be celebrated, where it will be preserved, and that it's a win-win situation for all parties involved. so again, we urge the families to talk to us, meet us, and that we can continue to preserve this magical space that we have on 24th and mission. thank you. >> thank you. vickie castro? >> hi there. good afternoon. i want to talk a little about the importance of preserving the open space at the two sites.

the open space at the former galeria de la raza is intrinsically connected to the other in body and soul. you cannot have one without the other. i would like to point out some reasons why it's an extremely significant component. open spaces connected to our latino philosophy, energy, and art is part of our development. open space is a part of our tradition and heritage. open space is connected to our past, present and future. the founders of galeria knew this and built it for this reason. the idea of a fifth direction is a center, which is an open center, for movement. it's about fluidity. it's key to the aztec religious

philosophy. it was considered to be the center of the world. the founders of galeria made sure they infused it with this energy since its inception. they knew it was going to be a place to honor our ancestors. open space captures our uniqueness of the chicano latinos and relations to this world. it informs and educates the world about the latino experience. a great example would be town squares that are unique in latin america. it's a commonplace center in latin america, a large open space in the center of a town where traditionally people come to buy or sell, meet things,

and be entertained. it is a central place for engagement. galeria was this type of place. the dia de los muertos was held in that space. it was a place where every full moon we gathered as residents and artists. galeria is our front porch on calle 24. it mimics our traditional outdoor spaces. it's also connected community development. from its inception, it focused being a beacon of art, but it was a place where people took

action to improve their social and cultural conditions. and lastly, the thing that ties us together is energy. we're connect it is our fusion of energy that is very specific and unique. specifically at this place, it holds our energetic legacy. taking that out, it decimates it. openness to this is really important to preserve. thank you. >> thank you. is there anybody else who would like to make public comment? >> hi. my name is jordan davis, j-o-r-d-a-n d-a-v-i-s. i'm just very much in support of this. i always appreciate galeria de la raza. it's where i've gone for a lost of reasons.

i've -- a lot of reasons. i enjoyed the exhibits, but we've got to preserve the neighborhood. i don't want people like me to determine the future of the neighborhood. there's always been a latinx neighborhood, and we should do everything to keep it that way. thank you. >> thank you. >> hello. my name's anthony moore, and i don't have a fancy speech or anything written, but i wanted to give just my own testimony as a private citizen. my whole life, i've worked in culture, international relations, and very simply, without culture, we are nothing. and you know, coming from a really small town in southern california, from mexican american parents, coming to this city, living here for 14 years and raising funds for big corporations and foundations, it can take a lot out of you,

and i remember one day going into galeria, and it was the most healing experience i can -- i can't even describe it. i connected so much with the art pieces, with the people, and it makes me emotional right now jucht thinkist thinking ab. i have to vouch for them because there's such a huge mental healing capacity that comes from this experience that gives me the energy to continue my work. knowing that the city is very expensive, and knowing that i play a huge role. since that experience, i've gone onto continue my work in culture, continue my work in raising funds not only for corporations but mostly for my latinx community, especially the queer community. and now, i work in one of the most amazing offices, which is that in the protocol office

here at city hall. now i play a major role in terms of being a latino neo-san franciscan, and for me, it's really important to know that i can come here from a different place, and i can feel a connection to my community. i know there's no culture that's better than any of them. it's all, it's culture, it's history. knowing that, i've always wondered how do we get into history where we have to fight and save something? and i guess i have the privilege of being here today and finding the courage to speak to all of you. it's just my own small testimony, but i hope you will consider them, and i thank you for your time. >> thank you. is there anybody else in the public that wishes to speak?

>> christian sanders, reuben, junius and rose, on behalf of the owners, the ying family. you'll be hearing from them in a second. i'm here with a very specific mission. i want to convince you to reconsider the interior designation. this is an extraordinarily practical question that's before you today on this one piece. unfortunately, the galeria is not there anymore. it's an empty space, and an interior designation would mean that any partition, any wall, any demising structure that a tenant would need as part of a typical tenant improvement to take this space and use it in some way would require a certificate of appropriateness. now i think we're reading in the papers about how difficult

corridors and retail spaces are having difficulty getting tenants. this will not help. if the community would like to see a use here, if the planning department would like to see a use here, this is an issue. and then, there's a real simple legal point. there was some testimony -- new testimony about these spaces in community centers, but there's nothing in the report, i mean nothing. the bullet on page 23 of the designation report simply says a character defining feature is the volume of the interior defining storefront. you'll read the report, there's nothing about that volume being in any way special to this building or any other cultural issue. and again, the space is vacant, so i really, really encourage you to discuss that, consider it. we kind of see the direction this is going. we know we're probably not going to be able to stop the

landmark, notwithstanding the fact that the owners are going to need to release the property, but we need to reverse this in terms of renovating the interior. thank you so much. >> thank you. >> good afternoon, commissioners. rose wen, r-o-s-e w-e-n. i echo the comments by mr. junius. i respectfully ask the commissions to limit the restrictions on the interior space of the building. it was unfortunate that negotiations broke down which propelled the galeria to exit the storefronts. the storefronts have remained vacant since the end of last year. new renters are needed to bring

vibrancy and life to the current storefronts and neighborhoods. the current vacant storefronts has invited almost daily graffiti. not just any prospective business can be in the storefront as this is in the calle 24 corridor. the next renter will have to be special to the community. until that renter is find, the city impose does fines on the own -- imposes fines on the owner for vacant storefront, and there will be additional fines for additional penalty for any vacant storefront. again, the mills act is not beneficial to the owner because the property has been owned since the 1960's. the storefronts need to be occupied so the owners can keep an eye on any graffiti on the

property. the unnecessary vandalism has been very costly. the owner has very constrained financial resources. the empty storefronts generate no income. the owner has had to pay many graffiti fines. acid etchings cannot be removed or at least easily removed. today, the acid etched windows make the corner property look like blight and decline. continued vacant storefronts will be a detriment to not only the owner but to the entire neighborhood. i ask the commission to not impose restrictions on the interior space should you move forward with the landmark decision. thank you. >> thank you. >> now for the next presentation, i will need your help to turn it on.

>> good afternoon, commissioners. >> can you speak into the microphone? thank you. >> oh, i'm debbie fong, d-e-b-b-i-e f-o-n-g. [inaudible] >> it may take years before another similar organization comes forward to rent the space. as a result, besides loss of potential income, the owner will have to pay the new city annual fee on vacant storefront. in addition, if supervisor peskin's proposed empty vacancy ordinance passes, the owner

will have to pay a vacant storefront fee of $500 a day. since the galeria departure, the storefronts remain empty and have been attacked nearly every day by graffiti and acid etching. it reached such a stage that neighboring businesses launched formal complaints. acid etchings are not removal, and the costs are really, really high, and no sooner is it cleaned up than the vandals return. the owner does not have the financial resources to continue the cleanup. the storefronts may have to be boarded up to protect the windows and tiles from further damage. constant graffiti declines a neighborhood in fighting crime and harm to the public safety.

graffiti brings down property value. it makes a neighborhood depressing to look at. businesses in the neighborhood suffer and graffiti may repel new customers from going into the neighborhood. if businesses see less revenues, those businesses may close up, depressing the neighborhood further. jobs will be lost, less taxes will be collected. i kindly ask that the restrictions on the landmark decisions be limited, especially to the interior spaces. what is needed are active tenants who would create a physical presence in the storefronts to mitigate the constant graffiti attacks.

tenants need flexibility in case modifications were required. this would be the best solution for the community, the owner, and the city. thank you for your consideration. >> thank you. >> good afternoon, president and commissioners. the owner, and i, mary wong impose any restrictions or limitations to the interior spaces for our two stores at 2851 to 2861 24th street.

we recognize the contributions of the galeria de la raza to the latino community in san francisco but the landmark designation as proposed will require preservation of all claimed interior features which would prevent the owner's ability to accommodate future lessee's ability to make future changes or improvements. in other words, the stores will remain vacant. a vacant storefront invites graffiti and vandalism as we have experienced after the galeria's departure. it made front page news in the february 14, 2019 edition of the locate the newsletter. there was public -- the local newsletter. there was public outcry. we called the city for cleanup

service and spent enormous amounts of money which the owner cannot afford to pay. he was fined by the city for blight over and over again. secondly, there is a recently passed ordinary nance that requires the owner to -- ordinance that requires the owner to pay an annual registration fee of $711 annually for vacant properties. secondly, supervisor aaron peskin is pushing for a tax on vacant property which imposes a $250 a day penalty fee until the property is rented. the city owners want the empty storefronts rented and to attract more businesses so there is less blight and decline. if the owner cannot find suitable tenants to lease both storefronts, it would mean a $500 a day penalty which is

impossible for her to pay. in addition, it's impossible to get permits which would meet a.d.a. requirements. these restrictions placed on the interiors are a horrible limitation on the owner. she would not purposely keep her property vacant. she wants the storefront rented by viable businesses. [inaudible] >> the owner cannot pay the $250 a day fee if imposed. third, the mills act offers no tax penalties to the owner. we urge the commission to not place restrictions on the interior spaces. thank you. >> thank you. >> hi.

my name is billy coldwell. i just wanted to make a comment regarding the ability to get a tenant in this space? there are significant demands for an open space in san francisco. the corner space open space has a cultural and historical significance -- [inaudible] >> there is an ability to stop the graffiti, the community will definitely stop if the -- if the culture is kept within it. thank you. >> thank you. >> my name is thomas riley. i am the newly appointed executive director of the calle 24 latino cultural district.

i'll be brief. i would only underscore and reinforce everything that has been stated in favor of the designation as a historic site. i would add two items to the discussion that would be touched on or have not yet been touched on. one, from a purely territorial standpoint, the site exists as an outdoor gallery, and the artist that instigated that gallery, many of them had their first showing at 24th and bryant. when we consider the historical significance of the site, that's one thing to take into consideration. to use an absurd example, if vincent van gogh had grownup at 24th and bryant, we might have a statue of a small boy smelling a sunflower. this gets to my second point, which is my role is to engage in the act of preservation. in this community, that has

meant first the elephant in the room of acknowledgement must first be addressed. that is until the site is designated historic, can i and my organization work to protect and preserve its historic relevance within the neighborhood. this speaks particularly to a community sensibility in which the historically ignored cultural contributions of the residents in the mission neighborhood have been validated by the presence of the gallery space at 24th and bryant, and i think the designation of its history felt its wishes expressed on the walls of the building and even on the outside of the building. so please take that into consideration as you make your further deliberations, and i'll yield the rest of my time to any other speakers. thank you. >> thank you. is there any other member of the public that wishes to make public comment?

going to close public comment and bring it back to the commission. commissioners? commissioner johnck? >> i'd be interested in having the staff respond to two points of interest made by the public to me. one was the recommendations that we not use the word sign or sign structure, that we use community mural and just mural. >> community mural and rotating mural. >> mural and mural structure? >> mural frame. >> mural frame. >> mural frame. okay. i was interested in that. and the other point made by mr. junius was about the only reference in the staff report on the significance of the interior space was volume, and i'd be interested in hearing

about whether that space was enough. >> commissioners, tim frye, planning department staff. i'll start and we'll allow desiree to fill in the gaps if necessary. one is i don't think we have any issue with, and is it sounds like it will help clarify some of the concerns raised by commissioners to described the old bill board or the liberated bill board as a mural site, so we'll work with the commission. >> i like that amendment. >> okay. and second is -- and again, i'll let miss smith fill in the details of the report, but it is not inconsistent with -- it is not consistent with our

report, just some other reports where they had a definition of the interior space. it's not saying or prohibiting change within those interior spaces, but looking at the volume and how that space functioned as an important part of that history that, you know, we would need to be mindful of those character defining features when approving a new tenant. miss smith, do you have anything to add? >> yeah. just a discussion is also included on page 21, where i reference the latinos in 21st century california, which we used as guidance in addition to

precedent for including publicly accessible spaces and other landmarks. and of course, the significance of it is the gallery itself, which it was described in detail throughout the document and the history of the galeria's described on page five and six in terms of its exhibitions and the artists who exhibited there. that's really the nexus of the significance and the volume of that gallery space. >> so i'm -- can i just ask miss smith, the report done by the office of historic preservation, can you explain a little bit about that and its relationship to the interior comment that was made? >> sure. the context was a history of

21st century latino arts and culture in san francisco. cultural center is a very important property type. we saw cultural centers on the rise in san francisco, but also los angeles, san diego, san jose. so it provides guidance on how to evaluate the significance of those properties, and in its discussion of integrity is when the report indicates that primary interior space, especially exhibition and performance spaces, should remain intact. >> thank you. commissioner pearlman? >> thank you. i've been troubled by this since i read this and we talked about it last time because i agree with the -- with mr. junius and the owners that if

galeria de la raza was still there, i would absolutely support that. but i think this puts an incredible burden on the owner of the building for the sake of memories. i mean, galeria de la raza still exists, so they have a new location where they take the spirit of that organization to and create some kind of events and gallery showings and things in their new space. but the idea that this whole space has to be preserved as such -- it's not like a movie threater, a performance -- theater, a performance space with lots of ornaments. there is a project very similar, the names project building, which is on 2662 -- 2362 market street, near

castro, was where the aids memorial quilt put together and gained its notoriety. it's now a city landmark, and we didn't preserve the shells and the sewing stations. what is there is 12 panels -- or eight panels in a 12-by-12 that's in the catch restaurant that's there and has been in there since the restaurant opened. [please stand by]

>> for putting up a couple of walls or changing something is really an additional burden, and it seems to me that if it were

there and they decided to change their program and alter their gallery space, there wouldn't be a question. that would be this organization. they would say we want to make changes to those spaces and no one would raise an eyebrow, but now if we put this burden on them for the interior, someone else comes in, despite what someone said about there are other cultural institutions that want to be there, maybe, but there's not a lot of them, but there certainly a lot more commercial -- commercial tenants who could go there and help pay the bills and clean up that corner. so i can't devote -- i mean the exterior of the building is great, the mural is a great thing, and i think that should be preserved, but i can't vote for this if it has the interior portion in there. >> so this is a question for staff, if we were to require the

volume to be retained and a tenant came in, with obviously at some partition walls or are nonstructural and are removable at any time, how would that be reviewed, is the intent of this to keep the space is completely free of any partition walls? so how would this get looked at? >> say if an architecture firm or sort of -- some form of retail where they have certain racks and displays that would invade in the space. >> that is a great question, commissioner. tim fry, department staff. we would use the same criteria that we used for all other interior spaces and that we would be looking for reversibility. we will be looking at how the

new alterations effect -- effect or intersect with character defining features. we would review, i would say, primarily in this case, would be for reversibility. without a thorough evaluation of the interior interior, you know, certainly it like a theatre or a church or a gallery space, that open floor plan that is desirable, so working with the tenants to figure out if they need full height partitions versus half height partitions, or maybe there are certain areas in the rear that are more suitable for enclosed spaces. that would be the approach, but i would say overall, based on the significance of the interior and what's outlined in the report, it is primarily reversibility and giving an opportunity to evaluate those changes, that that space retains that character over time.

that would be our primary goal. and certainly whether or not it is approvable at the staff level or provable before the commission, this meant -- this commission may look at it slightly differently, but that would be at your discretion. >> thank you, i appreciate that. i share commissioner permanent ' concerns about i don't want to place the property owner in a catch-22. i'm so sorry that the gallery has moved to a location -- a new location, and i fully support the recognition of the importance of this structure, and what occurred for many, many years, but i don't want to place a property owner in a catch-22 where it is so onerous or complicated to attract new tenants that the space becomes virtually on leasable,