tv Government Access Programming SFGTV May 27, 2019 6:00am-7:01am PDT
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>> i would also like to take this opportunity to acknowledge two former mayors who were joining us here today, thank you so much mayor art agnes art agnes for being here with us. [cheers and applause] >> as well as former mayor willie brown. [applause] >> and unlike those former mayors, i didn't just name my chief during my inaugural speech i went through a process. [laughter]. >> did you hear me, mayor brown? [laughter] >> but the fact is, we know that we are so lucky to have such an incredible fire department in san francisco, with incredible leaders. this is the resilient -- this is
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a resilient city. dating back to the 19 '06 earthquake where this department was focused on making sure that it protected and saved lives and property throughout san francisco. over the years, the voters have been so supportive with assisting us with the finances needed to make sure that we invest in our fire station, that we invest in our equipment, that we invest in the men and women of this incredible department, because it is not a matter of if they will be an emergency or another situation, or another earthquake, it is a matter of one, and so when making a decision about who best to lead such an incredible department, time and time again, so many members reached out to our office, and often times, with
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appreciation, and with praise for chief nicholson. this woman has done something that i'm not certain has been replicated by any other member of the department. not only has she worked in every corner of the department, all over the city and county of san francisco, at every fire station , she has been a paramedic, she has been a firefighter, she has been a lieutenant, captain, a battalion chief, and now deputy chief of the department. working in so many capacities from suppression, administration , she knows the fabric of this organization. and so i am so excited and proud that we have a chief that is going to lead this department and make a significant difference for the residents of this city. we are definitely in good hands
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and couldn't ask for a better person. yes, she has made history, and will continue to be a role model for so many women, for so many brothers and sisters in our lgbtq community, and i'm so excited about that. and yes, she has courage. she has courage to take on the difficult problems, and to lead our city into the 21st century , and yes, she is a real leader that listens and knows how to bring people together. she has brought this department together like never before, and i'm so excited to be swearing in the next chief of the san francisco fire department, ladies and gentlemen, let's welcome janine nicholson. [cheers and applause]
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>> let's do it out here so they get a good picture. all right. are you ready? >> i'm ready, mayor. >> please bring it. >> bring it! >> please raise your right hand and repeat after me. i janine nicholson, do solemnly swear that i will support and defend the constitution of the united states and the constitution of the state of california against all enemies,
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foreign and domestic, that i will bear true faith and allegiance to the constitution of the united states, and the constitution of the state of california. that i take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation -- [laughter]. >> or purpose of evasion, and i will well and faithfully discharge the duties upon which i am about to enter, and during such time as i hold the office of fire chief of the city and county of san francisco.
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>> please sit down. [cheering] [cheers and applause] >> good morning, san francisco! [cheers and applause] >> it is an honor and a privilege to be here before you today. welcome and a big thank you to all of our local, state and other dignitaries. i'm very appreciative of your presence here today. mayor london breed, former mayor willie brown, former mayor art agnes, hi, melia. all right. former fire chief, former fire chief robert devens, former fire
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chief, paul tobacco, former fire chief ed, welcome. former deputy chief mar gonzales many thanks to my sister, carmen chu, i know that is my sister down there, but this is another sister. thank you, carmen, you are a rock star. i hope the ceremony doesn't make you go into labor. [laughter] >> but if it does, there are plenty of us who know what to do , so we are good. [laughter] >> thank you for being a strong role model for me and others, thank you so much. speaking of strong women, i want to say a special thank you to my new boss, mayor london breed. [cheers and applause] >> thank you. thank you for this opportunity
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and for entrusting me with the mission and vision of the san francisco fire department. i vowed to continue to work diligently for you, mayor breed, for the city family, for my fire department family, and the citizens of san francisco. there are so many other people to think, too many, in fact. both in and outside the fire department, but let me be clear, i did not get here alone. first, i want to speak about my family, the biological kind, that is. my parents and my brother and sister. i am the youngest of three. they used to tell me, well, my brother and sister did, that i was found in the garbage and wasn't really there little sister true story.
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my brother who was four years older than i played football with me, and i mean that literally. he used me as a tackling dummy. they taught me how to get back up on my feet after getting beaten over and over. and my sister, who was smarter then the what rest of us, she was psychological warfare instead of physical. i may be dating myself, was she thought she was harriet the spy, and kept files on the entire family. let's just say they were not very flattering depictions of us she, of course, became an attorney. [laughter] >> to my parents who taught me responsibility, perseverance and service, my father who is no longer with us, he is literally over the moon today. look up at the moon, you'll see a bald guy up there beaming.
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he modelled kindness, generosity , and doing the next right thing. and my mom, who at the ripe young age of 85 go zwilling on the water, three days a week. i remember her telling me last year and the year before that she was so angry because the rowing coach told us she could no longer carry the boat down to the water, that others had to do it for her. she was incensed. i could carry the damn boat, what do these people think i am, old? my mom, who is no angry with me for telling you how old she is volunteers at a local high school, tutoring yen men on the basketball team, and tutors syrian refugees in english. i am grateful to my family for these and other lessons, and i'm happy they are here supporting me today, all my nieces and nephews, cousins, all of you, thank you. to san francisco, i moved here
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30 years ago. i felt welcomed from the start. i could be who and how i was without question, and i have so many tried and true friends that i have trudged this road of happy destiny with here. i am so grateful to this city. now onto my fire department family. i have had the absolute honor, privilege and good fortune of serving in the san francisco fire department for over 25 years. i came in as a firefighter, promoted to firefighter paramedic, lieutenant, captain, battalion chief, and deputy chief. to my brother and sister firefighters, e.m.t.s and paramedics, i say to all of you, i have sat where you sit, i have an understanding of and an appreciation for what you do each and every day.
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i thank you for doing the work you do and for the sacrifices you make. i am so grateful that we get to do this together. thank you. [applause] >> there is no crying in baseball, all right? no crying. the san francisco fire department is unique in any -- in many ways. we work in a one-of-a-kind city of densely constructed wood buildings on hillsides. we fight fires in our own way and do a darn good job of it. we do the second-most dense city population in the country, second only to new york. that brings its own challenges. we have the most diverse department in the country, we are extremely proud of that. [cheers and applause]
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>> we are using innovative approaches to address are homeless and opioid addicted populations, but there is some ways that our fire department is not unique. one is in the high cancer rates of our members. firefighters nationwide get cancer and in higher rates then the general population. many of us get it at younger ages. we understand that we signed up for a dangerous job, we love our job. it is just that now we are more likely to die from cancer than anything else. i have often said that there is a cancer sniper out there, and it is not if, it is not when, it is which one of our brothers or sisters will get hit next. in july of 2012, i was diagnosed with aggressive type of breast cancer, so the treatment itself was extremely aggressive. within two weeks of diagnosis, i had had a double must missed
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ectomy and a port implanted porch implanted in my chest, one month later, i had the first of 16 rounds of chemotherapy. i lost my hair, my appetite, 25 pounds, i had sores in my mouth, rashes on my body, you name it, i had it. i felt awful most of the time, yet i am one of the lucky ones, because i am standing here today some of our members are not. people such as denise, david, john, rich. these are just a few of the names. but because we are who we are, we are facing this challenge head on with awareness and with changes to policies and equipment. another way that the san francisco fire department is not unique is in the rates of prose
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to -- posttraumatic stress injury and posttraumatic stress disorder in our members. we often help people on the worst day of their lives. we see tragedy and trauma time and time again. we maintain our professionalism in the presence of these challenges, and we have begun to understand the impact that it can have on our members. but because we are who we are, we are also meeting this challenge head on, and i have brought in more resources for our peer support unit. we want to ensure our members and the department resiliency and readiness. in february of 2009, i responded with a great crew to a fire. it was after midnight. it turned out to be an arson fire. someone had poured an accelerant in the ceilings and floorboards of a home.
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six firefighters were injured at that fire, including myself. i suffered first and secondary degree burns over 15% of my body there were others who were injured much more severely than i was. one was chris posey, he was on my crew that night. i felt responsible for him and for his injuries, even though an arsonist was responsible. my injuries from that fire were not just physical, but my fire family had my back. retired members, people in the department shared up -- showed up for me ways i could not have imagined, and i came back to work stronger. we support one another in so many ways. my fire brother, chris posey, fought his way back over the course of a year. i'm so glad he is still with us. chris posey is a kind of person that works for the san francisco
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fire department. he is right up there today. [applause] >> katherine alba is a member of station 18, one of our rescue stations. they run countless calls to ocean beach. she and other members spent hours out at fort funston last month, rescuing one woman and a dog, and searching, digging for another woman after a devastating cliff collapse. heartbreaking work. catherine puts her heart, or soul, and her body into her work every day. she is a kind of person that works for the san francisco fire department. [applause]
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>> chica contrary us as a paramedic who saved ambulance partner who was having a heart attack while on duty. she took action, and calmly saved his life. her partner his back to work today. she is the kind of person that works for the san francisco fire department. [applause] >> john choi, a humble man, who works at one of the busiest stations in the country, and to our diet -- was diagnosed with cancer a year ago, and fought his way back. john choy is a kind of person who works for the san francisco fire department. [applause] , and last but not least, darrell hunter. while on a peak roof with fire raging in the house below,
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darrell blew out both of his knees at the same time. what are the odds? he fell onto the roof and held on for dear life in excruciating pain. it took a team of people to put out the fire and extricate darrell safely from the roof. it was a monumental effort by darrell to fight his way back to work. mind you, if you have ever seen darrell hunter, you will know it was also a monumental effort by a crew of people to put that fire out and get him off the roof. [laughter] >> darrell hunter and the members that worked to save him are the kind of people that work for the san francisco fire department. [applause] >> these are just a few of the dedicated, resilient, innovative smart, strong and capable people that i get to work with, learn from, and grow with.
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i am so very fortunate. moving forward, i have a strong command staff around me. i want to thank the deputy chief of operations, and the deputy chief of administration was a bellow for jumping on board with me. thank you, guys. [applause] >> thank you to my ever steady and hard-working command staff. thank you, men and women, so much for all of your effort. [applause] >> we are a collaborative, we are goal oriented, and we are diligent. we will continue to work to provide the best service we possibly can. we will continue to meet the mission of the san francisco fire department and work on the priorities of this mayoral
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administration. i vow to work to ensure that we, as a department, continue to instill a love of responsibility and service in our members, as we also strive to take care of them. we are addressing cancer and posttraumatic stress industry -- in injury. we'll continue to address homelessness in collaboration with the mayor's office. we will continue our efforts with other city departments to ensure we have a robust plan for disaster operations. 1 foot in front of the other. we will get it done because that is what we do. mayor breed, with this great honor comes great responsibility i understand that in my bones, now let's go back to work. [cheers and applause]
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>> how about that? one more hand for our 26th cheap sheep of the san francisco fire department. [cheers and applause] -- 26th chief of the san francisco fire department. [cheers and applause] >> at this moment, i also want to recognize the members of our san francisco fire commission. can i please ask you to stand while we give you a round of applause. [applause]
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of san francisco city hall. city hall is accessible to persons using wheelchairs and other assistive mobility devices. wheelchair access is provided at the grove, van ness and mcallister street via ramps. wheelchair access at the polk street, entrance is provided through a wheelchair lift. assistive listening devices are available and our meeting is real captioned and sign language interpreted. please ask staff for assistance if needed. to prevent electrical interference with this room's sound system and to respect everyone, please silence all mobile phones and pdas. your cooperation is appreciated. we welcome the public's participation during public comment period. there will be an opportunity for
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public comment at the beginning and end of the meeting, as well as after every item on today's agenda. each comment is limited to three minutes and the council will respond to your comments following the meeting if you provide your contact information. you may complete a speaker's card available in the front of the room, approach the microphone during your public comment. and/or, you can call our bridge line at 1-415-554-9632. where a staff person will handle requests to speak at the appropriate time. the mayor's disability council meetings are generally held on the third friday of the month. our next regular scheduled meeting will be held here on friday, july 19, 2019, from 1:00 to 4:00. please call the mayor's office on disability for further information or to request an
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>> thank you. we're going to move to action item number 2, reading and approval of the agenda. staff? >> item 1, welcome, introduction and roll call. item 2, action item. reading and approval of the agenda. item 3, public comment. items not on today's agenda but within the jurisdiction of the mdc. we welcome the public's participation during public comment... there will be an opportunity for public comment at the beginning and end of the meeting, as well as after every item on today's agenda. each comment is limited to three minutes and the council will respond to your comments following the meeting if you provide your contact information. you may complete a speaker's card available in the front of the room. approach the microphone during public comment or call our bridge line at 1-415-554-9632.
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a staff person will handle requests to speak at the appropriate time. item 4, information item. co-chair report. item 5, information item. report from the mayor's office on disability. please note that the director's reports can be found on the what's new section of the mod website. item 6, information item. updates from the department of aging and adult services. this presentation will include an overview of the department's programs for people with disabilities. present by executive director, san francisco department of aging and adult services. council questions and public comment are welcome. break. the council will take a 15-minute break. item 7, action strategy and people with disabilities.
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a present on the vision zero 2019 action strategy. highlighting actions and next steps and addressing issues responsive to transportation safety concerns of people with disabilities. presentation by may eagan weir. sfmta, pedestrian program manager and zero vision co-chair. item 8, information item. san francisco recreation and parks department disability access and inclusion services. this presentation will include the children's play area, accessibility assessment and website enhancement. what the department offers for people with disabilities, how to access their services, their challenges and how the department can work with the mdc to provide better service.
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presentation by lucas tobin. ada coordinator for recreation and parks department and anthony tow, intern. council questions and public comment is welcome. item 9, public comment. items not on today's agenda but within the jurisdiction of the mdc. each speaker is limited to three minutes. please approach the microphone or give your comment card to the mod staff. item 10, information item. correspondence. item 11, discussion item. council member comments and announcements. item 12, adjourned. >> thank you, heather. i'm going to move for a motion for the acceptance of today's meeting agenda. do i hear a second? thank you. all in favor?
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>> thank you for having this meeting here today. i just wanted to share a couple of -- bring a couple of things to your attention. one, i'm concerned these meetings are only happening bimonthly now. i don't know the reason for that. if it's a budget issue, i can say i'm very disappointed. these meetings are extremely important and they're only one of the ways that disabled people can be involved. when i have a problem, i have two options, if i have a problem with a city service, i can call or a lawyer or ask mod to step in and help. these meetings were created so less litigation would be brought against city hall and the city
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of san francisco. these meetings are terrific. they're run by people with disabilities, so people listen usually. they're a very good thing and should happen. i am concerned these meetings are not well attended. i don't think that's the fault of staff. outreach needs to be done. i lived in san francisco for 10 years with major disabilities before i knew the existence of these meetings. i'm very active in civic life. i consider myself active. i think there can be outreach done, especially at hospitals. i think it would not be hard to go to sf general and give a piece of paper, hey, did you know about these meetings? are you having problems accessing city services? i would like this point out that disability homelessness is on the rise in the city. as of yesterday, the homeless count in the city is over 8,000, 8100 people according to san
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francisco chronicle. if you're living on disability, you can only make a maximum of $900 a month. there is no place in san francisco that would rent to a disabled person for $900 a hospital. you get injured, in a car accident, you're homeless. that's it. you're on the streets. the disability suicide rate is climbing. we don't like to talk about that. it's a dark subject, but it's a reality and it's a problem. so those are the main things i wanted to bring to your attention. i brought up overeem e-mail previously that i was harassed by a police officer in city hall. i was sitting in the far corner of the room, as far as away from the door as possible resting my back, because i have a spinal injury. a police officer said this
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wasn't a public park and i couldn't lay down. he wouldn't stop harassing me until i sent a letter from my doctor. i sent a letter to this. i sent e-mails on february 6, february 8, april 12, april 25. on april 26, i finally got a response from director saying it's being looked into, but i'm interested in finding out the results of that by city staff. >> thank you so much. i believe we have another public comment. >> i wanted to share that pride month is all of june. and for pride in 2019, we're collaborating with pride and the external contractor who makes pride happen, both the parade and the celebration.
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they have a long way to go in making pride accessible, but in 2019 we're hoping they can change. we're working with them to get some of these things changed. i want to invite everybody to come march with us in pride on -- it's going to be june 30th this year. it's a sunday. we're going to be doing a pan disabled contingent, so pan disabled being everyone who identifies as disabled and allies both of disabled and the lgbtq community. you can find out more at lighthouse.org. i'm going to be sending this link to kate williams who can send it out. moving forward, because there are so many other things that pride can and needs to do to make this event accessible, we're going to continue talking to pride in 2019, and 2020 and beyond we'll continue to make it
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more accessible. hopefully, we can get in there and look at conversations regarding accessibility and pride, hopefully, in the fall. that's it. >> thank you. i have a public comment that was brought to my attention from one of the council members, >> my name is martin greensburg and i was referred to contact you from the public library. i am a deaf blind citizen who worked in san francisco for 25 years. i worked as an accountant for 25 years, after 15 years i was forced to leave due to my sight worsening, making me deaf and blind. i have no service animals due to an allergy condition. with this new disability i have to go to school in new york city
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at the helen keller national center. i returned to san francisco again, but was forced to leave due to my mother's health issues. i currently am back in new york and would love to move back to san francisco. i have continued to look for and apply for affordable housing for many years with no results. i'm contacting you to see if there is any way you can advocate on my return to san francisco. being deaf, blind and as a senior citizen, i have issues and difficult with the application process. i thank you in advance for your guidance ahead of time. thank you, mark greensburg. do we have any more public comment at this time before i close public comment? okay. thank you. with that, we're going to move to information item number 4, which is the co-chair report. and basically, what i like to do is kind of talk about future
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announcements and things that are happening in the disability community. so i try and summarize, because we get a lot of e-mails from agencies and non-profits on things that affect the disability and senior community. so one thing is better market street open house. the better street market is the city's multiagency project to transfer 2 -- transform 2.2 miles of market street. they're going to focus on safety and accessibility and making sure transit is reliable and space and public right-of-way is safe. they're going to have two open houses. one on june 1, from 10:00 a.m. to noon. and the second one is wednesday, june 5, from 4:00 to 7:00 p.m. and they're both going to be held at the a.c.t. custom shop,
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1117 market street near 7th. it's a few blocks from the civic service center. they're going to talk about the market street plan. their plans for design altercation between hayes and gulf. commercial loading, transfer stops and some of the other improvements. if you have any questions or need an accommodation, you can call at 415-554-9656, at least 72 hours in advantage. the meetings will be accessible to people who are wheelchair users. and there will be assistive listening devices and materials and they will have interpreters. that's the first thing. the next thing applies to support for families of children with disabilities. and they're kind of inviting for
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like an open house mentoring training program. it's called parent to parent. it's going to be held saturday, june 8, from 8:30 to 4:30. and there is going to be a group of volunteer mentors. and basically, this training is to share their experiences in health care, education for children with special needs, and what they do in areas of support. and you kind of receive training on communications, listening skills, or whatever you'd like to share. preregistration, there is going to be meals and limited child care provided if needed. so if you'd like to preregister, you can call ahied at
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415-920-5040 or e-mail apolomera @ support for families.org. the last thing i'd like to talk about, there were several people who had contacted me with regards to the expo tech fair that was held. and there were a lot of good reviews and i was told that -- so basically -- excuse me i'm referring to my notes based on the calls i got. basically the fair was held from may 5 to 11 and it was sponsored by the san francisco public library along with support from city departments, microsoft, and about 30 partners organizations. and it had to do with basic computer skills, advanced skills. they cover various materials and workshops. how to learn about more accessible apps for people who are blind and/or visually
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impaired and how to interact with computer in their day to day life activities. talking books. they learned how to apply online for city employment. there was a computer training program about the ace program. and they learned basic computer skills. i believe there was basic and free, i believe coding classes for people who are hard and deaf to help them learn how to use. and if you were interested in being a website developer. the people that i talked to, that went to the fair, got a lot of out of it. they were intimidated when they first went, but they found it useful. they wanted to thank whoever was responsible for putting this together. so i wanted to make sure that you mentioned that. the last thing is the community living campaign is having
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community meetings to talk about accessibility in the public right-of-way. i have a flyer with basic contact information. what they're looking for is a search party who are going to walk on the van ness side, and they're going to kind of see areas where there is obstacles. and this is funded through the community living campaign and it's going to be may 23 at noon at the center or independent living offices at 1663 mission street, suite 525. and i can give you a name and a contact to get more information if you want accommodations. so any questions you can call jennifer walsh at 650-488-0259. or e-mail jennifer @ sf community living.org. thank you very much, that ends my report. and now we'll go onto information item number 5. report from the mayor's office
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on disability. and what is new. i welcome our director nicole bohn. >> thank you very much, denise. good afternoon, everyone. thanks for coming and thanks for being here. i have a few updates. you'll learn more about the ways that the mayor's office on disability has engaged with vision zero in the presentations later. we'll focus on a couple of updates since the last meeting presentation. so specifically one of our agenda items was on housing and the strategic plan, the five-year plan that is now in development with our partners in mohcd. mod has been involved in those focus groups, specifically for people with disabilities in response to the visit that happened at this meeting last
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ti time, so thanks to this council's action in that regard. also, regarding better market street, denise mentioned earlier the forth coming open houses that will be giving folks a general update. i wanted to let you know a couple of other things. the dates are still be determined, but we anticipate that there will be, as a follow-up to the disability stakeholder meeting that happened after the presentation to the council around effective delineation in bikeway separation on better market street, that involved people with and without disabilities giving feedback, there is going to be another stakeholder meeting, most likely in june, that will talk about the better market street project specific to disability. and also, there is going to be some opportunities to participate in some design
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testing on effective delineation for detectable bikeway that is detectable under cane or under foot. that is sometime in june. and once those surfaces are determined, there will be another opportunity for user testing on market street itself. once we have an area that is ready for piloting and we anticipate that will happen in june and july. so, please keep your eye on the mayor's office on disability subscription service, if you receive that. if you don't receive that right now, you can sign up by going to our website at mod.gov and subscribing to our news feed and we can get you signed up to receive updates regularly. next, we've also been involved
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in giving feedback around the light rail vehicles with mta. there are, in the phasing and design process. the next phase of the lrv. so the mayor's office on disability with the help of the members of this council gave feedback. i want to encourage everyone that public comment on transportation is always welcome at the mta board meetings and we especially want to be hearing from people with disabilities on their concerns related to accessibility in transportation. so please keep that in mind. just a few other things. one that is new to this group for today is that mayor's office on disability is now engaged in the initial conversations on the 2020 census and the best ways to make sure we're engaged and counting people with
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disabilities. as we know, the census is very important. we want to make sure we're counting everyone. and this data can be used to help us determine, not only our population of people with disabilities in the city, but we can then extrapolate and understand the kinds of services and funding that we need as well. so the 2020 census is very important. we want to make sure that everyone is counted. there is also opportunities for folks who are looking to be involved, either as volunteers or as part-time paid employees to be involved in the census. there is a couple of places where you can go to check this out, but one place that the city has with some of the job resources information is centralized is through the san francisco public library. so you can go to their website at sfpl.org/jobresources and
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check that out. so, i would also encourage the council to consider having our colleagues who are working on local census issues to come to a future mayor's disability council meeting. just a few other things to close out just to let you know that mod has been involved with mta and the county transportation authority. now in the comment periods on the implementation of the transportation network company's accessibility for all act, you'll remember that is legislation that is statewide legislation around making sure that our transportation network companies like über and lyft have accessible vehicles for everyone. for implementation no later than 2024. so feedback is being gathered formally on that rule-making process.
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and then i also wanted to let you know that mayor's office on disability has spoken with the california commission on disability access. and their most recent local meeting, specifically around legislation that mayor's office on disability has helped to support and monitor, more specifically elements that this council has heard about before. the accessible business entrance ordinance. the amendment to the plastic straw legislation. and the aforementioned access for all act. and then finally, i wanted to let you know that i as director for the office of mayor's office for disability, had an opportunity last week to engage in the first ever national convening of directors of mayor's office of people with disabilities as a national gathering. it was very historic event for us to be able to get together
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for the first time and meet each other and share best practices. the focus of most of our meeting was on financial empowerment and also employment programs for people with disabilities. and so we came together and did a lot of information-sharing and also learned a lot. i would encourage this council to be thinking about how they might want to engage with issues of parliament for people with disabilities and also employment initiatives. and that is all i have for today. >> co-chair senhaux: thank you for your report. we're going to move onto information item 6, updates from the department of aging and adult services. i'd like to welcome our presenter. thank you so much for taking the time out of your schedule and being here today.
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>> thank you, council members. hi, director bohn. >> thank you for coming. >> and also thank you for pronouncing my name right, so rare. >> i practice [laughter]. >> i really appreciate that. >> co-chair senhaux: i try. >> hi, so thank you so much for inviting me to be here today. i actually just wanted to come and talk a little bit about the department of aging and adult services, specifically focusing on some of the more recent work that we've done to really do a better job of serving people with disabilities who are under 60 years old. so the charge of our department is to provide social services to people 18 and older with disability, or people who are older adults. and sometimes those are the same populations and sometimes they aren't. so the department came together in 2000, so it's now 19 years old and the time that the pa
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