[roll call]

>> clerk: item 2, general public comment. members of the public may address the commission on any matter in the commission's jurisdiction that does not appear on the agenda. commissioners are not to enter into debate or discussion with a speaker. the last of a response by the commissioners or department personnel does not necessarily constitute agreement with or support of statements made during public comment. >> thank you very much, madam secretary. i do welcome all members of the public for comment. are there any questions for the commissioners? seeing none, public comment is

closed. madam secretary? >> clerk: item 3, approval of the minutes. discussion and possible approval of meeting minutes of may 17, 2019. >> president nakajo: at this time, i'm going to ask for public comment. any members of the public may approach the commission. are there any questions or discussions by the commission at this time? >> commissioner cleaveland: move to approve. >> president nakajo: thank you very much. moved by commissioner cleaveland. second. >> commissioner covington: second. >> president nakajo: there's a motion and a second. all in favor? opposed? thank you. the minutes are approved.

madam second? >> clerk: item 4, presentation on -- of support services. >> president nakajo: good morning, chief. >> good morning, president and commissioners. i'd like to do a presentation on support services. as you know, support services not annual moaintains and procures equipment and delivery for the department, but we do a lot of research making sure our members are safe using the sate of the art equipment that

allows them not only to do their job better but keeps them safe and the public. we're not in charge of computers, either. so i just want to talk about, very quickly, our tools and equipment. so what the department has done is we're reducing our reliance on fossil fuels. i've been in 28 years, and we've gone from having all gasoline tools to now having a lot of battery and electric powered. so what that does is that reduces the firefighters' exposure to carcinogen, and

also, there's a noise reduction. so if you're supervising or you're at a scene, you're not shouting at the top of your lungs. you're able to communicate in a safe manner. also, we have no trip hazards. if you look down at the pictures, the first picture is the electric fans. so we've gone from gasoline powered fans which actually introduce even more exhaust and carcinogens to the building after the fire is out, to now just bringing fresh air into the building.

we' we're also looking to purchase battery fans. the technology isn't there to support the long incidents, but they're getting really close. and then next, you see two members with what we call hollywood lights. there's heavy cords that come with it, and a heavy generator. the one on the right has the system on all of our new trucks. it's an l.e.d. light with a 24-volt charging system. as the firefighters are driving around, it's constantly being charged. it has an 18-hour life battery, so those are some of the things that we're changing to ensure

more efficiency for our firefighters. cordless extrication tools. so as you know, the jaws of life are on our cordless rescue teams, but what we found out is in 2007, major manufacturers of vehicle started using high strength steel made with boron and other materials that could not be cut with the laws jaws life. we did some research and found there were not only more efficient tools on the market, but electric tools. these tools are also on all of

our aerial trucks and electric squads. there's no cords. with this equipment, you grab it, you go, and you're going to work immediately. there's no sound, no loud banging or motors running, your officer can actually stand right next to you and say, i need a cut here, i need a cut here, and so on and so forth. so once again, this is a major reduction for firefighters exposure to carcinogens, and once again, this was purchased under a grant fund.

this was the latest acquisition also purchased through grant funding. it's a thermal imaging cameras. so in the past, we've had thermal cameras, but due to limited funding, we only had cameras on our batallion chiefs, division chiefs, and our rescue squads. now through this grant-funded program, we have cameras on all of our vehicles. all of our suppression vehicles. and what we did was we actually mounted them on to the vehicle, so it's always charging. there's no more of this human error. if someone forgot to charge a battery, we place it next to the officer's scba so they're

not fumbling around for it, trying to look for it. i believe we have installation on two of our abobatallion companies, and we're looking forward to having them installed on the rest of our vehicles. solar vehicles, every vehicle in the san francisco fire department has a solar panel on our roof. what this does is the solar panel is always on. it increases the battery life of the vehicle. when i first started at bureau of equipment back in 2013, we were responding to five to six dead batteries a week. what that means is the vehicle is out of service, we have to get a mobile team to drive out to wherever that vehicle is, change out the batteries, if we have a battery in stock, and put them back in service. the cost to replace a set of

batteries on a truck is about $2,000, and those huge batteries go straight into the landfill. with the solar panels, what we've seen is not only has there been a dramatic reduction in calls -- i think we're getting one or two a month for dead batteries now, but we're seeing our batteries have longevity, and they're lasting even longer. the solar panels that we have are so sensitive, they actually can be charged by fluorescent lighting in the service bay, and it's more up time for our members to be able to respond to incidents with less downtime. in 2015, san francisco fire department switched from biodiesel to renewable diesel. so renewable diesel is a

nonpetroleum based fuel that actually has a remarkable reduction in output of emissions. san francisco fire department was the first one to use it. we were able to get confirmation from our manufacturers to use it. it was a very new fuel back then. since then, it's now become mainstream. we have contracts for it. right now, we're using renewab renewable diesel in our ambulances, trucks, rescue squads, and we were just approved to use it in our newest fireboat, the st. francis. this is adding to protectionng

our firefighters, protecting the public, and just adding to fire protection in general. i'm not sure if many of you are aware, we have what's called an exhaust extraction system. what that means is whenever the firefighters jump on to the vehicle to respond to an incident, a pressure sensitive switch is activated, and a fan comes up and sucks up all of the exhaust fumes out of the apparatus bay and puts them out into the atmosphere to protect our firefighters. okay. but once our firefighters are out, the emissions are still coming out. this has been almost a year now where we had a pilot program, and i'd like to show you a little more about it. so what we found is that if we

use an after-market filltation system that this'll -- filltration system, that this'll not only protect the firefighters, but protect the public. this is full-time protection for firefighters and the public, and it also gives us on scene protection. where you're on the calls where you have to have your engine running and you're sitting there, trying to extricate people out of a vehicle, you're breathing all that in. this is all mitigated. we don't have that anymore. it is also osha and niosh

approved. if you look at the graph prior to installation, 3.57 was the average of three tests. that is significantly low as to what is out there and what vehicles are putting, and that is because of the renewable diesel that we're using. but if you look to the right, after the device was installed in the vehicle, final results, and i'm not a math matician, bt that's almost zero. we're trying to get funding -- we had two failed grants in the last six months to try to retrofit our current fleet, but we're still endeavoring and

trying to get this device added. so with all the work that we've gotten done, what's next for the sffd fleet? great question. what we've been able to do is add the ability to pump and draft from any water source. what that means, it can pump and draft from a cistern, from the bay or from the current awss system. this also carries 4,000 feet -- or excuse me, 5,000 feet of five-inch hose, which is an

increase, and as i stated, it can extend the current awss. these vehicles will also be 4-wheel drive, and they will c carry an on board suction water pump. what that means is we can actually drop a submersible pump in the water source, and that will pump up to the hose tender at a rate of 3,000 gallons per minute. these hose tenders with the on board pump will be able to pump at 5,500 gallons per minute which is significantly higher than what we currently do for firefighter operations, but

this is a hydrant system, so it needs to be this high to be able to meet the needs of the system. this can also be used for a tall building firefighting, high floors of the salesforce tower, other high-rises, so we're looking at other applications for this. this is not just a one-trick pony, this can be used throughout the department for different needs. as you may or may not know, the hydrogen vehicles are out.

there's going to be three fuelings stations by october 2019. the u.s. army has been testing a chevy colorado truck for a few years, and it's come out with flying colors. this is just to respond to the new administrative code requiring all city vehicles to be alternative fuel, but in reality, this is actually a win for the department, especially for our staff vehicles. this would be a way to reduce our costs for fuel but also to reduce our carbon footprint, so more to follow on that. we're applying for a grant to be given one of these vehicles and potentially test it in the field, so that's coming up.

so when the fire department responds to incidents, and we're on the scene of a medical call or a rescue or any type of issue, we usually leave our engines running, which means that we're just -- we're pumping all that emissions and smog into the area, we're affecting our firefighters. this idle mitigation, what does it is when you're on the scene, your engine will turnoff, and you can still run all of your lighting and all of your warning lights, commercial and -- code 3 and flood lights, and they'll be supported by the on-board batteries. we've been working on this for over a year now, and we're going to install this on all our new trucks and engines which will be delivered later this year, and also our ambulances on spec. so what happens is when you arrive at the scene, all the

batteries are turned off, and then, what happens the batteries reach 40% of power, the engine turns back on to recharge the batteries, and then, if we're there for an extended period of time, it turns off. currently, it's about an hour and 45 minutes. so we have an hour and 45 minutes to be able to extricate someone, be at a call.

i know i get up here, and i talk a lot about support services and a lot of the things that we do, but in reality, i want you to meet the faces of who actually does the work. so i'd like to introduce captain ramon serrano and captain vince wong. this is [applause] >> this is a very specialized unit, and they respond to fires, but they respond to so many issues throughout the day. it's unbelievable. the amount of problems that they mitigate and issues that get solved, you know, behind the scenes is unbelievable. i know that president nakajo has toured the bureau on 25th. i would highly, highly recommend anyone to come and

look at it. it looks like a clandestine operation, but it's not. i'd like for the captain to say a few words if he doesn't mind. >> i wasn't expecting to speak, but thank you, commissioners, chief, chief rivera. if you need help, we're there. i was born and raised in this town, and i love this city and this department, and our goal, my goal is to provide the best equipment, the best fleet to our members possible. that's it. >> commissioners, chief, chief, i wasn't expecting to speak, either. i'm lieutenant wong. i have 24 years in the department, and what i tell everyone in the field is we're

the 911 in the field, so any issues they have, we try to mitigate. thank you. >> can i just say a quick word? >> president nakajo: yes. >> thank you. you are humble guys who work your tails off. thank you for what you do, we couldn't run this department without you. >> president nakajo: thank you very much, chief nicholson. chief rivera, lieutenant wong,

can you remain during public comment? i'm going to open this up for public comment. any member of the public wish to address the commission on this item? seeing none, public comment is closed. commissioner questions? commissioner hardeman? >> commissioner hardeman: very good presentation. the more we understand, the easier it is for you to convince us of things, and this is a great report. thank you. the hose tenders -- so a retired chief is always worried

about the west side of the city, which is unprotected. how many of these would you anticipate having over the next couple of years because this sounds very good, looking at this? >> so we've asked for a number of them in this year's budget. right now, what is in our budget is we are hoping to get four. we are hoping to get approved through the budget committee, but it's a place to start. but we'd definitely like to have more than that. >> commissioner hardeman: thank you. that's a good number. and then, just to go right to the last part of your presentation, captain serrano and lieutenant wong, i think it was late last year another

commissioner was on her way, and something came up, and they couldn't make it, so they called me, and can you go over there? oh, so i went over there. so i was very impressed. i agree with you, it's -- commissioners, you should get over there and see it. and the knowledge that you possess as the person running the meeting was quite amazing, that you come out with all of that without any notes is amazing. we're very fortunate infoto ha all of you working there. the power for the cruise ships is very similar to the idle

mitigation. we used to have the cruise ships that would idle all day, and then, as you know, your family in north beach, so that area of town would complain because the ships would be spewing out for 24 hours all this exhaust, so the pressure was applied, and now all the cruise ships, for the most part, unless there's too many, was onshore plug in.

i'm sorry to hear that now we've got the jaws of life around, we need to upgrade. it's just like a lot of things, you can remodel your bathroom in your house or something, it's not needed, and it's $25,000 or $30,000, but if you took that $25,000 or $30,000 and did a bunch of little things, that's different. the jaws of life, i know how desperate it was that they didn't have one, how crucial it was. if we have to upgrade, we have to. i'm glad to hear that a lot of these things were grant funded. it shows that yes, we don't have a new grant writer doing the grants yet, but in the past, we've received a lot of

grant money, and that's good. thank you. >> yes, sir. and i just want to clarify these things are on our trucks today, so we're able to respond to any incident that has high-strength steel installed. >> commissioner hardeman: great. >> president nakajo: thank you very much, commissioner hardeman. commissioner cleaveland? >> commissioner cleaveland: thank you very much, and thank you very much, chief rivera, for your report. certainly, everyone appreciates the hard work of your department, and everyone relies on what you do every day, so thank you. i had a couple of questions. one dealing with engine one 3, the vehicle mounted filltration system? are we going to try to put those on all of our vehicles, and if so, what's the cost? >> yes, sir. so we just completed an

approximately one-year evaluation of it. we actually had actually hygienist tony boone even take readings of other potential emissions inside the fire station while we had this device going. so what we found, it is a self-contained very efficient unit, and partnering with the renewable diesel gives us the results that we're getting. it's $600,000 with installation. it's a sole source, the vendor can only install these items. -- it's $60,000 with installation. it's a sole source, the vendor can only install these items. to outfit all of our vehicles, it would be about $760,000.

unfortunately, we did not get the grants but we're still trying to move forward and working with department corso -- deputy corso to try to find financing. all of our new vehicles are going to have them, but it's just trying to retrofit. the other thing, too, is kind of all of this equipment, these can be put on water trucks. i've contacted the health and safety division to see if they would like to get more

information. >> commissioner cleaveland: well, if other departments got involved, the price would come down. if we got all of these installed, we'd be doing a lot to clear the air and reducing the vehicle exhaustion. >> yes, sir. >> commissioner cleaveland: one final question regarding the turnout board, and the fact that they still have some carcinogenic emissions. have we contacted the turn out code to make sure they don't have any carcinogenic elements? >> yes, sir. there's only a few major manufacturers of p.p.e. we've reached out to them. right now, the technology does not exist, but there is a call

for it. i will say that the pfoas, which is the carcinogen that we're talking about, it's in the moisture liner. it's encapsulated, but it can come out and expose or leak and affect the member. what we've done is we've required that firefighters clean their turnouts after every incident, fire suppression incident, and submit it for inspection. so if a firefighters inspects his coat and notices a tear or rip, then he turns in for further inspection. if there is any tear in the liner, that jacket is inspected and taken out of the field immediately. so while there are pfoas in our

equipment, they are encapsulated, and we're having them inspected after every incident. i think that's -- that just says a lot about our operations and on you our mindset is changing. >> commissioner cleaveland: you say there's only a couple of manufacturers that make these turn out coats. are they aware of our need to have a carcinogenic turnout coat? and are they partnering with a university for testing? they ought to be working on that. >> no, i agree. as part of the requirements for this last contract, during the evaluation process or during questioning, one of the questions, what are you doing for the future of this clothing and what are you doing to remove the pfoas?

so we actually met with the cancer group under local 798. we actually brought those concerns directly to the manufacturers. some were addressed, some couldn't be addressed because the technology just can't there. i will say, and i'll refer back to when tony stefani spoke here, part of the issue is the n.f.p. requirement is to have that moisture liner -- requirement embedded into the liner. but we're working to make sure these clothes comply with the nfpa. >> commissioner cleaveland: are you aware of any discussions that are being held at the

nfpa? >> i'm not aware, but that could be something that could turn the tide. >> chief, do you have any -- >> yes. i don't sit on that committee, but i know it's being discussed by the committee. it's up to the manufacturers who also sit on the committee to come up with a product that can also be tested and can be then certified. >> commissioner cleaveland: so they don't have it. >> not yet, but current firefighters are there, and testing facilities. so they're demanding that from the manufacturers, but they've not come up with something that's concrete yet. >> commissioner cleaveland: i'm glad to hear you're involved with the nfpa so you can take our concerns directly to that body. thank you. >> commissioner cleaveland: thank you very much, mr. president. >> president nakajo: thank you

very much, commissioner cleaveland. commission vice president covington? >> commissioner covington: thank you very much for your presentation, and i want to say this. as we've gone through all of the materials that you've presented, which is very, very good, i don't want to miss the opportunity to say that what comes out very loud and clear to me is that all of this is a result of a vision. you've got this over here, and all of these things that could be done and were done. this is an incredible document,

and this is the kind of thing that we need. this is the kind of thing that any organization needs. add this, tweak that, take that away so that the end result is beneficial to everyone. and we so seldom get that. meaning -- i'm not talking about the fire department, i'm talking about the world in general. there are people who do one thing, and they pat themselves on the back for the next 20 years, and you never hear from them again. this is fantastic. the reduction in carcinogenic materials in the fire houses, in the dorms, out there on the street is very, very important, and this reduces something by 20% and another -- and it all makes a huge difference in the

long run, so i'm very happy to see this, and congratulations to all of you. and on page 2, i like the comparison to see the generator and then this one battery, and there's no cords, and no tripping. and then, the cordless extraction tools, the photos are very, very telling. to hear you talk about the jaws

of life and now with the battery operat battery-operated replacements, we don't have those running all the time. clean air is what we need, and our firefighters, because they're so often in toxic environments, so this is good. the cameras, the solar panels, i had noticed this for sometime, and i thought this was pretty good, because i wanted solar panels on our fire houses for the longest time, so the solar panels on this, on the trucks and engines are just wonderful.

i wanted to take this time also to give tony boone, mr. boone, a chance to come forward since he is a collaborator with you on your team, so perhaps he has some additional input into the process of getting us to where we are today. >> good morning, commissioners. tony boone, environmental health and safety. yes, i collaborated with -- i took a couple extra samples when the opacity test. if you're not sure what that was for, it was looking for

particulate. i was looking for oxides of oxygen and oxides to nitrogen. there's different types of nitrogen oxides. you may know one of them as laughing gas, but one of them is sulfur objectixides. so i took some additional air readings, and i didn't get any sulfur oxides, and i got very little nitrogen oxides. i took this meter, and i was right next to the exhaust, and very little oxides came out, so i was very pleased, and in

addition, this combination of renewable diesel. >> commissioner covington: very good. it's very good to have confirmation of these items as people are moving along. so was it chief rivera that recruited you to do that? >> when he sees my name pop up on his cell phone, he's reluctant to answer, but no, we're a team, and we work together, and all of the supervision was done at mechanical shops, so we all worked together. when the test was first done, the independent smog technician thought that all of his equipment had failed, and he had to take a break and recalibrate. he says i've never seen this before, so he actually took three tests, and all of them were 0.0. so yeah, pretty remarkable.

we're a team, and i talk to all of the members within my division multiple times a day. we have a really collaborative relationship, and honestly, we're a family, the way i see it. >> commissioner covington: wonderful. well, thank you, mr. boone. so we were right at the point on page 6 of renewable diesel, so i think mr. boone covered that very well. so i could just go on and on in praising you guys, but i won't. i'll just give you cookies and stars. very well done. so thank you -- oh, my goodness. i just don't want to get people's ranks wrong here. well done -- a second. captain serrano, and lieutenant

wong. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> president nakajo: thank you, commissioner covington. i'm going to be asking a few questions. as you can tell, the motivation to bring you here to speak on the division of support services the collaboration on future projects was part of the consideration that we have multiple projects in your work, related support services. i know that this presentation specifically talked about this, but i have discussion items such as the department training site that's futuristic, the e.m.s. building, if you will,

that's still in some projection mode, station 16, station 5, station 35 within your parameters, which is your station. all of that for yourself came to light that we should have an updated presentation of materials. as you can tell from the commissioners, and particularly from vice president covington and the commissioners, this kind of document, as we page through, gives us some strong information but again, the photographs speak loudly. so i, as well, follow suit looking at the document that you submitted this morning and presented on, and i also have certain questions. commissioner hardeman picked it up, as well, the rest of the commissions, in terms of the subject matter of cordless extraction tools, tools and

equipment. i think you used the word thermoimaging cameras, the reference of grant funding, which is present in our mind. the terms of our budget on hand is equipment and personnel that we need as a department to operate. it's challenging every year, but it makes more sense in terms of everything that we don't get through the budget process if we get aid somewhere. so in terms of this grant funded extraction cordless imaging cameras, i remember the day that we first got imaging cameras, and we responded to a fire. i believe it was in the richmond district, and at that

time, chief paul dibaco appeared on the scene. he said commissioner, check this outside. this is what we can do, and he pointed it in the residence for the purpose of identifying images of individuals or victims, but that was a new tool for me at that particular time to see that. on your page on solar panels, as vice president covington referred to, she called out page numbers, but i'm not going to, solar panels on the san francisco fire department fleet, when did that start? >> the panels first began appearing i believe in 2015. at the time, the technology was not there for large, high output panels.

so what we did as a department, we purchased recreational vehicle panels which had a rating of 13 watts. it charged the batteries. it obviously does not have the capacity of newer versions. what i did was contacted some of the manufacturers and asked if there was any technology for higher panels, and one of the manufacturers had a higher technology, so we went have 13 to 100 watt. -- we went from 30 to 100. >> president nakajo: okay. i think it's wonderful that we have the vast technology base to be able to take advantage of that. you say it's on all of our

fleets? >> yes. >> president nakajo: thank you very much on that. in terms of renewable diesel, again, from my notes, in this picture of our vehicle that -- i guess this is a renewable diesel truck -- >> this is a san francisco department's fuel unit. >> president nakajo: all right. and this truck that we have, fuel unit -- we have one fuel unit? >> yes, sir, and it's stored at 25th street. >> president nakajo: okay. and in terms of renewable diesel, where do we get that from? >> i believe there was a new contract awarded to golden gate petroleum in the last month or so, so they are the distributors to supply renewable diesel to the whole city and county of san francisco. >> president nakajo: and is renewable diesel used in all of

our vehicles? >> yes. the only vehicles we could not use them on were the fireboats, because the fireboats fall under what's called a red-die diesel, so we pay a little bit less because they're not paying the highway taxes. but what we found is as we did more research and as we spoke to the manufacturers of the marine engines, the guardian and the phoenix, because of the age of the vehicles, they have to use the regular red-dye diesel. but because the st. francis is a more efficient engine that was produced by cummings, we actually had direct talks with cummings' marine district. and they hemmed and hawed, but they finally came through, and we do have permission to use

are you newable -- renewable diesel on all of our fireboats. >> president nakajo: i know i live by station 5. does the tank go by station 5 and fill all the trucks. >> so all the diesel ordered by the san francisco fire department is renewable diesel. >> president nakajo: and while i'm talking about station 5, what other stations have tanks that can take care of our vehicles? >> so we have, in total, i believe 19 tanks throughout the city. some are gasoline, some are unleaded, but they're all being replaced with renewable diesel since 2015. >> this is within the

jurisdiction of bureau equipment? >> yes. this fuel truck will respond to any major incident. what happens is if we have major firefighting operations such as the mission bay -- or i believe there was a fifth alarm on mission street a few years ago, so we'll setup the fuel unit a block away, and then, we'll fill these fuel caddys that have a capacity of 35 gallons, and they'll wheel them right to the vehicles and replenish the vehicles while they're still in pump or aerial operation modes. >> president nakajo: okay. when the fire trucks need maintenance, who -- when the fireboats need maintenance, who deals with the maintenance issues? >> we either have the vendor or if it's a large repair, we have

qualified technicians take care of large repairs. >> president nakajo: thank you. in terms of the vehicle mounted emission system -- say it for me? >> opacity test. >> president nakajo: thank you. i'm very glad that commissioner covington brought up boone to collaborate his information by participation. it details the expertise that you have because for a lot of us, it's technical kinds of language, but i appreciate the collaboration and the team approach. >> thank you. >> president nakajo: it shows us that -- we, the commissioners -- that every corner is covered in that particular area. moving to the san francisco hose tenders, hot subject matter as commissioner hardeman talked about, we all talked

about, the nwss to be able to draft -- you know, the image is very foggy. is it hoses per se? what the heck are we talking about? so when you have a photo like this, and you show the engine and the capacity and the description and the fire hoses, and you say can extend current awss and any other possibilities, you talked about high-rises, as well, and i know that chief nicholson and i are advocating at the department for hose tenders. it's important because in terms of the greater overall a.w.s. systems on the west side, we've got to have a system to be able to deal with suppression and issues of that. so i really appreciate hose tenders in this concept. i want to ask you one technical question. does our hose tenders, when we draft water, is the capacity

there to draft sea water? >> yes. so the hose tenders will have the capacity to draft directly into the on board pump and/or use the portable submersible pump, so you'll be able to drop this submersible pump into the bay or other water source. it has a lift of 35 feet, which means if the level -- the sea level is 35 feet or less, it can actually pump up into the new hose tender up to 35 feet, which is significant for us. >> president nakajo: okay. >> that's a plus. >> president nakajo: a plus that, for example, in terms of loma prieta, if we need water to put out a fire, we draft it, and the resource at that time was the bay -- >> correct. >> president nakajo: -- there's some discussion of salt water versus clean water. does it make any difference if

it's salt water or clean water to put out a fire? >> so for us, it does not make a difference to put out a fire in the san francisco fire department. but for the water department, it does make a difference. if salt water is introduced to nonpotable water, there's a process. for example, a headquarters, which is pump station one, that is connected to salt water, and that would bring a -- introduce salt water into the current system to augment it. so these hose tenders will have the capacity to draft directly from the bay and pump directly to the waterfront which can supply fire trucks or other fire apparatus. so it's an awss above ground that we're investing in.

>> president nakajo: okay, and basically in terms of the hose tenders trucks, they have the capacity to pump that water out and draft? >> yes. yes, sir. >> president nakajo: i ask that question about salt water because someone talked to me about the compromise of salt water and fresh water, and i'm glad you responded in terms of the concern because at some point, someone said if we move in salt water, we would have to flush it and clean it or someone would to not compromise the system. so again, i think the more knowledge that commissioners have -- moving on to hydrogen staff vehicles, is that a concept demonstration or do we have that in play at this point? >> so i've been involved with the department of environment for a little over a year, looking at potential uses for hydrogen vehicles. one of our criteria is that we would need an s.u.v. just because of the amount of equipment that we carry. the delay has been that the hydrogen fueling stations have

not been implemented yet. they're going in at the end of, i believe, october. there'll be three shell fuel stations that are going to have the hydrogen filling dispenser installed. [please stand by]