statuses of that specific action. so this section over here, it is a bit hard to read. admittedly, i'll try to hover for the more robust updates. for example, we have one of our on going actions is to update minimum outreach standards for all job announcements? as you saw within the core functional areas, one of the key areas for orei will be equity standards across the board. this will include how you do outreach, so i look forward to working with our talent integration team about integrating equity standards into our work, and there's been a lot of work, for example, with outreach standards on our citywide network. we're working with mercy work group and has met with a group of stakeholders in diverse locations to ties openings. that said, i think speaking to the on going work, i've had several meetings with h.r. about the need to be doing on

going outreach. we recognize that when it comes to outreach and our connections to communities, the game would be engagement for our public processes is a continuum, and we have a lot of great work to start with. just going through down, this is probably hard for people to see, bias training and capacity building requirements, so i have been working again to identify comprehensive training needs, so the listing series have been super helpful in hearing from staff across a variety of different backgrounds on what we need when it comes to racial equity training. this is true for our board, so

more to come when we work on consistent racial equity trainings, and it flows through all areas of operation, so we're really thinking about training as a consistent practice that needs to be in place. i'll try to skim through these and not take too much time in case anyone has any questions or comments. and then we have action 1.3.5. this is another great example of an action that is in progress and that speaks to a bigger need? so i've been working with h.r. and also e.e.o. with support from the chief of staff team on a data project that encompasses around sharing data transparently, and i'll talk more about that in a moment. so i'll just skim recruitment -- yes. so action 2.1.1 to use data and projections [inaudible] of black indigenous people of

color [inaudible] this is something that we had to worry less about with some of the federal funds coming in and is looked at as an on going item currently. just go through a few more. let me just go through disciplines. i want to save time, and i recognize that it's very hard to see. 2.1, director ackerman spoke about this earlier about the acting policy for acting assignments, so many policies are on going, and some are not started. so for disciplines, a couple of items that i want to speak to. so first, the agency wide corrective action policy is in progress? action 3.1.1? and director ackerman spoke a lot about the work that we've been doing in the transit agency, and again, this speaks to the need for our universal citizens reform effort. so we know that while transit

is our biggest [inaudible] it's not the biggest need of the agency, so it will [inaudible] across the board. and what that really emphasizing correction and discipline action as a last resort. a couple other actions, if i can just scroll down without my computer -- okay. okay. so another one to -- this is one of the actions i'm coordinating with h.r. is around developing a tool for supervisors to really monitor calls when it comes to discipline. this is in progress because we've had some work with h.r. and we just had a listening session series. so with the listening session series, we had multiple sessions and most teams in some cases, there's a robust amount of information around

discipline and county culture as a whole, so it's really important that our executive team, managing team across all divisions are listening to those often not heard, and i'll talk more about the work being done with the executive team. in terms of the workshops for [inaudible] the last thing i want to highlight on this discipline separation section is in addition to the plan report there is action 3.3.2 to develop data dashboards and report trends regularly. so this is one of those actions that are a piece of a bigger project, as well? i mentioned the equity data project, so we're working to share data both internally and externally around the workforce, around discipline and promotions and its iteration and around the hiring processes and also around pay, so really working across the board to remodel those best

practices as it pertains to leading with data, and being intentional where we're leading and seeing inequities. and for time, i will just briefly go to -- so i can finish my last slides and finish the presentations. so action 6.1.1 is in progress and that's around developing and maintaining an agency wide equity curricula and tools. i mentioned that i'm working on developing racial equity training including implicit bias planning and antiblack training, but we also want to talk about racial equity as it pertains to several other racial ethnic groups. also, there will be a thread of racial equity trainings for supervisors, managers, and directors, which has much more

around fear based cultures, around accountability systems, and around leadership needed for people in supervisory positions and understanding how it can play out in our actions from day-to-day. so the racial equity curriculum will be robust and we'll need some time to develop that because we're working on training relative to sfmta's needs. so 3.1.2 is around an annual executive workshop. as i mentioned with our listening session series, there has not only been an equity analysis, a series of equity analyses, it's also meant to support this performance work.

we have agency feedback on the agency wide trends at the end of this month and going into the start of september, i will have a series of the business specific workshops to go over those challenges names and recommendations from staff. so prior to the executive team making formal commitments on what we will be doing to share equity, i will be going to staff and sharing the listening staff, but we know that much of this information has been stated and the known. so in the background and the final report for that listening session series is generating, you'll see that we account for things like past reports and also the racial equity action plan, so what we knew when we started. it's important to note that we've been very vocal about responding to staff needs, and we're hoping to maybe later on in the winter to follow up with staff so we know what staff have committed to when it comes

to advancing racial equity. for the last two items, 4. -- 6.2.1, for my first six months, there's been a -- i won't say it's in the exact same time allotments, but there's been meetings with affinity groups as well as workplace committees. so much of the conversation has been on getting feedback. they were a part of our listening sessions theories, and also identifying the supports and needs of affinity groups. in working with them and talking to other jurisdictions, whether it's oakland, l.a., seattle, it became really clear that protected staff time is a core need for our racial equity action plan. the hope is with our cost divisional fellows program,

because it comes with protected time, that could be one avenue for affinity groups. we've been working to secure resources, so as recently as last week, it was confirmed that analysis in the orei, there will be a total of $372,000, so i'm really excited to partner with the affinity groups to support them and their work and support them in their outreach efforts and also to have a more consistent collaborative structure. the webpage is under development, and i think that was the last one that i wanted to go over. one more, actually. this is kind of just tied to the executive team commitment, so instructing employees anding anding -- [inaudible] so our chief of staff was really integral into making sure this happened for the past fiscal year, so for many staff who worked either on the racial

equity action plan or affinity groups arrest other structures in the agency, they were able to be credited for the assets that they were bringing to our organization, and this year, it will be mandatory to have racial equity action training for all staff, and that will be documented in our performance plans. i'm working on the performance models so that staff is ware of what's required when they're establishing their performance plans for the next few slides.

it's really emphasizing that we're working to have sustained functions, and that whole recommendations for external

reviews but also to expand beyond that. so this slide just briefly summarizes the fact that we've had a lot of work on analyzing our needs and stakeholder engagement and also supervisors and management with stakeholders. again, we've worked with many different county departments. for example, tomorrow, i'll be facilitating a training and meeting with several different city and county department working with either enterprise or infrastructure work, and we'll be talking about how to share data around the workplace, including what kinds of privacy standards we're considering or how to clearly get information to people. so i can't count the number of board meetings that i've had to connect with people across the nation, our city, and departments, but it's been super helpful for increasing

our external and internal networks for collaboration. there's so much that we've committed to already and in service of finding a comprehensive long-term sustained approach to advancing everywhere. >> this slide, first, the equity data transparency project. director ackerman spoke to

this. with that, i should note that we do want to have leadership training for staff who are not supervisors. it's just important that currently supervisors, current managers, and directors understand what our priorities are for managing and directing safe accountable.

so again, you'll see down here all these areas, programs, benchmarks, improves diversity, workforce development, staff support, hiring, interview, discipline and accountability culture for all of these listening sessions series with a really robust opportunity for staff to inform that work, so this is an opportunity for establishing standards, just a few accomplishments, and that's going to be integral to implementing the racial equity action plan. orei did respond to the pandemic call for projects. i'm happy to share that the total amount that we secured was $3.4 million?

so now, the orei operating budget for this fiscal year is $3.9 million, which is completely different than 500,000, and it makes it completely different to roll out and implement these programs, and again, the partnership and discussions, i think we've worked across several different teams to be efficient. it took some time to actually

craft job descriptions. as you can imagine, it took time to scope the work to research these best practices, to understand what we committed to, and to work across all the divisions to make sure we're not duplicating functions but also introducing new functions that are complementing our systems. and then also up until last week, there was budget uncertainty, and there continues to be for a large portion of our agency. again, relative to the second bullet point there, both are urgency in needs and also the racial equity challenges that have been difficult to do that with one person. one person isn't adequate, and $500,000 isn't adequate. i've been working on scope our

work, on boarding resources, and responding to our needs. there have been crises that have come up or there have been spaces where there have been need to work across divisions, not to mention supporting other city departments in requests for proposals. a couple of other challenges that i'll name is staff lists communication and follow up and how that impacts people's trust and willingness to participate. when i spoke with staff, some feel like nothing ever changes. we talk a lot, and nothing ever changes, and that ties into the last bullet point. and these are concerns that i've voiced to our leadership team, and these are concerns that i've been dedicated to tracking out, especially as they play out in different work settings. it's important to be humbled by the fact that many people have a lot of pain points, and

rightfully so. that's not to complain, but that's to say that there are high expectations and a lot of need and also a lot of past hard that i'm working to try to mitigate in partnership with director tumlin and other leaders across the agency. so the last one, i'm waiting for these approvals and finalization of the assessment work before these go live, but there will be three manager positions and one supervisor positions, an equity workforce and workplace manager and an equity services manager and an equity sources supervisor. i won't go through the minimum qualifications. it is important to note that for our qualifications, you need to have a bachelors and you can substitute that with additional qualifying experience. you have to be working at a

mass transit agency, and i want to include working at mass transportation departments, but working in transit is also a qualifying experience, and also with supervisory experience, or you can substitute one year of supervisory experience with that requirement. so really trying to make sure that we're being thoughtful with barriers to hiring and barriers to -- especially diverse workforce accessing our job opportunities, and one thing i'm very happy to be able to pilot because it doesn't happen for most of our manager positions is launching these civil service positions, coming out of the looming threat of potential [inaudible], it was really important for me to work with several teams across the agency to see how we can pilot the idea of more civil service divisions so we can obtain more

staff. so i just want to share a few of our next steps. at the end of september, we will have an all staff racial equity update meeting. admission of equity data transparency project, and that is an on going effort, much of it is led by e.d.o. and h.r. the office of office of racial equity and inclusion is working to make sure we have a robust narrative how we share information both internally and externally, and as i mentioned, while there are several portions of that that are called out, i also want to share that director ackerman spoke to the racial equity action policy, but we have some reports that duplicate this position, but it's really important for us to package this in a user friendly way so

we can understand how and if we have disparities. another next step which is really exciting will be a couple months down the line will be our orei workplace commitment. i also -- i mentioned that i'm working with the executive team and have been giving -- posting on going workshops with our executive leadership teams around the outcomes of the listening session series, and i'll be working with them to get their feedback from staff in their divisions. i do hope to report out just not on the all staff call but on the division specific calls so that the leaders can state what they're doing to advance racial equity. so confirming the orei racial

equity action plan, this was before i confirmed the budget, so we'll be working on the project plan, implementing all the projects that we've outlined and that many on our leadership team have been making sure and that they're resourced. so we're trying to make sure that we have policies and procedures in place to optimize the reach of our funds and also be monitoring and evaluating our projects so we can improve where we need to and scale. and last, starting yesterday, i started a monthly orei with the affinity groups and monthly workplace committees. while we have had a series of quarterly meetings in partnership with h.r., our q.c. officer and other teams like e.e.o. as requested per the affinity group, i have been

spread so thin, so i've delegated it to one of my staff. it's really important to sustain our connection, so i've worked, and also, the same goes for other work -- employee workplace committees that service employee workplace group. so that is what to expect next. we're hiring, working hard to implement the work, and the marathon continues, so thank you so much for your time. >> thank you so much. this is such a very robust report, and there is so much to unpack and digest. thank you for all the work that you've done in the short time that you've gone to m.t.a. i'm going to move to public comment, but after that, we'll move to director's comments. i know that we've got people waiting for several hours. moderator, are there any people

on the call for item 15? >> operator: you have one question remaining. >> first caller. hello? hello? >> yes, hello. my name is charles gollove. i am an employee of the sfmta. i am a member of the white people working against racism affinity group, which is working under guidance from the office of racial equity and inclusion, and i want to say i support the work of this office, that it makes for a better and safer and more productive workplace and a more just workplace, and for more just service to our customers, and i am most concerned that

the areas of the challenges be granted the resources alleviate those challenges. thank you. >> thank you very much for calling in. moderator, are there additional callers on the line? >> operator: you have zero questions remaining. >> with that, we'll close public comment. you have told me you're starting these listening sessions. tell us about the challenges that you're seeing. is there -- like, do people have the confidence that you'll be able to do the things that you need to do to be successful? >> i would say there's a mix of opinions. there definitely are a lot of staff who feel fatigued. there are staff that say i hope they don't fire you or i

hope -- there's staff that feel that -- and really, a lot of it feels like staff feels like there have been promises made in the past, so there's promises made every couple of years. many staff have a lot of different ideas and a lot of feedback, and so i was very [inaudible] people of color staff, and that includes our operator community, our parking control community as well as customer service. i would say that the biggest discrepancy that i saw were people were not as aware of the racial equity action plan. some staff did not realize that

there's been a commitment in the past. many people want to see consistency, and not just from myself but from our entire leadership. so i would say there's definitely enthusiasm. people definitely want protected time, they want resources and find that it's important, but many people are scored, and they have not just racial equity but overall workplace needs. one last thing that i will say is our staff have been reporting to work throughout this entire pandemic when we didn't know if it was spread by sneezes or how it was spread, so i would say that staff are really ready for tea action and consistency from our teams and leadership on many different levels. thank you for the question. >> no, that's great, and in terms of you showed some of

these things that are in progress, some things that are happening. for the biggest things that are not happening, what are the biggest barriers for things that have not started? >> i would say -- so a couple of things. [please stand by]

. >> so, you know, i think our first step, our first step, really, is to look at the data. first thing we have to do is to make sure that what we're looking at is accurate, so we're trying to make a determination that instead of this being a specific process that's handled at in a specific division, that's going to make sure that it's coming directly into e.o.r. the second is it's not going to be siloed within the division. there's going to be controlled in play so the upper management is going to be starting off

with reviewing it, so they can see, okay, i'm an operator in woods, and i want a red light today. some operator hits yslais creek, we're going to give it to them, too. so you're enabling the management to look at from a macroperspective. it's kind of the same way we do management. if we're looking at silos, you can have one classification that's separate from another classification. so i think that one, we're making sure that there's consistency, that we're having the accurate information, we're making sure that there's management review and sign off, which is very important. there isn't going to be guessing about what violation, which number, what date is current, who is the supervisor.

that is the date of the complainant's claim, and that will be the data that's used to report on. the second thing is if we have the data fully there, we can clear the data for the management team to say now, these are the managers that gave the notice violation. let's look at that. what does that mean? what are the -- who received what? who received what discipline for the particular violation, so i think that this is a really good first step to really make sure we have a good structure in place. once we know that we have accurate data, we can then take that data, look at it, and see what changes we need to make. so as josephine and i talked about, i think, yesterday, we still have a lot to do, but i think structurally, i think this is a very good, solid step, and i think it's important we not just do it in

transit, but we also do it in maintenance. that'll be safe, too, because i think employees know that it's the same system that everybody is going to be able to use. maybe the rules will be different, right? because we've put all the different rules for [inaudible], so i think that's a good, solid first step. i think we still have a ways to go, but i think this september, with the first phase, we're in a good place. >> i just wanted to add a few more notes. i think that director ackerman

hit it on the nose. she said we have a lot of great work happening, but we have a ways further to go. a couple other things i want to point out. this is probably the same challenge across many city departments. it's a way that discipline data is not being tracked. so we do need more consistent sharing assessment of data and also a strategy for how we share that data, so we're working closely with h.r. and e.e.o. on that, but there is room for growth when it comes to our policies and procedures. so we need to take a deep dive in understanding what is absolutely mandatory by our safety standards and what might be barriers that are causing for disciplinary actions toture, so i think that bigger work is a commitment to systems

reform, understanding if they can be inducing harm. we have a lot of work to be done. as director ackerman mentioned, there's a lot happening within our transit division. a couple of things that i'll add. training is really important. it's really important that we overlay racial equity training with our supervisor support. things like surveillance. if you think about even manager behaviors, am i checking this, you know, surveillance material because i can or because i actually have to? so because i check on josephine because i'm able to or because i have implicit biases or because i have to? there's a lot of ways that implicit biases play into the equation. i've only been in two city departments so far. i haven't seen that level of training in those departments,

and only that close kind of understanding and discussion when i took a history of racism class in college. it's all levels of society that can play out, so that really speaks why we're working to have, like, custom racial equity training, why we're working to pair it with racial systems, actions, and needs. it's not just how we keep managers and directors accountable, as well, for their actions, that's also a culture of connection period. for many staff assessing our large divisions, you may have one supervisor for hundreds of direct reports, so you can imagine the opportunity for direct communication and connection are smaller than for a smaller team. many people are, like, i never talk to management unless i'm in trouble. that's mostly tied to discipline but it's one of the ways that we're trying to

improve relations is having on going spaces to connect outside of when disciplinary actions are taking place. skbl that's really great to here. the other thing i think related to that is you talked about pipeline and pipeline planning. i think what's really hard is, you know, i always have to convey -- we live in a world where white people are told fight for your rights, and black people are told, follow the rules. we work in a concept system where people of color keep their head down. they're not trying to overly communicate and getting at the head of the room and having ambition, and then, they're penalized for not getting out there. these cultural things are really misunderstood and i think we're looking at and

unpeeling those things. i think the people that work really hard and aren't vocal don't get the opportunity because the cultural dominance doesn't recognize that. the person that talks a lot and thinks they're great will get the recognition because they'll put themselves out there in a way that people think they know what they're talking about. if you can do smaller groups, there's pipeline programs to help mentor people, and there's an understanding of how culturally people are brought up differently and how they're able to survive in the workplace, then we can start to get ahead, so i'm really encouraged by the work that you're doing, and i'm thrilled that we're starting to unpeel the onion, so i'll stop and move onto director brinkman. >> that's it exactly.

i'm encouraged and i'm thrilled, and one of the things that i always feel a bit nervous about is that i'm sensitive to the fact that the burden of addressing racial inequity not fall exclusively on our black and brown employees, so i'm really incredibly encouraged and really pleased to hear you talking about this. we can't -- we can't make fixing racism another job for our black and brown employees. i don't really have a question in there. that's my concern, and i'm always so concerned about that. justin, you did a fantastic job, and kimberly, thank you for being a fantastic leader along with josephine on this, and just trying to be thoughtful about it and not nervous about it, but you've helped me be less nervous about

it. thank you. and that's all, chair. >> thank you, director brinkman. i'll just add, i think it's really important. we need everyone talking about this and in fact, we need to talk about this. we need people learning. [inaudible] think -- this is about everyone leveraging their power and no one can help white privilege that they're born with, but they can help what they do with it. i'm looking forward to working with our senior managers and level of staff. we want everyone talking about it, and everyone more comfortable and informed when they do, so thank you for that,

director brinkman. >> thank you. that's it, exactly. it's everyone's work to carry, and we have to remember that. >> thank you, director brinkman, and i just wanted to add, talking with a colleague yesterday, we get focused on the recommendation we want to achieve, we've got to get this many actions, but the bottom line is there isn't really a finish line with this work. there isn't a finish line. we do have to continually work on it, and there isn't a finish line, and i think it's really important to keep that in mind. i just want to make sure that i can say that to my team and keep moving forward. >> thank you. thank you both. director lai. >> am i unmuted yet? >> yep, you're unmuted. we can hear you. >> okay. thank you. teams is so slow.

i apologize for the late hour, but i do have some questions. well, first of all, i mean, thank you to both of you. this was an immense amount of work and these last two quarters, i have to admit, just purely out of ignorance and not having enough appreciation of the whole mass of work that this really is, i see, based on all your reporting that there's a lot of working done, but to be honest, i don't have a good feel, like, how well it's all good and whether or not all of this is actually working and addressing the racial inequities that we had in our agency? i very much appreciate the comments made about the need for data. that is definitely step number

one. it's very familiar to us in every area of discussion, as well, so very glad to see that happen. maybe i'll just ask a simple question there. i heard it very clearly stated in the presentation will be done, rolling out live in september of this year, and there was a mention of phase two, phase three. just wondering how long will it take before all the phases roll out? >> yeah, thank you for that question, director lai. i'd have to go back and look at the information in our racial equity action plan, but i think we had a year or two years for this. we have the template, we have the process. all [inaudible] so i think from there, it's going to be much easier to finish phase two and complete two and three. and i think a year is reasonable. i think that's very reasonable.

>> okay. well, thank you for that. i mean, i do find that very impressive, anyone who's dealt with process in government would appreciate how difficult it is to implement new system innovation, especially when it requires access reporting on the employees -- active reporting on the employees, and we have a large employee base. so i will wait to see because, obviously, without that data, i feel like i wouldn't really fully understand how well or not well we're really doing. i had a question about the ombud office and the new hire. congratulations on the hire. just curious about, you know, we don't have the employees here to off their perspective,

but i'm curious about the e.o. and there's been some concerns around the e.o. practices and i'm wondering how that's going and whether or not, you know, you as the director feel like the employees are responding well to the tire? >> thank you for that question, director lai. i see that [inaudible] our ombudsperson is here on the call, as well. i think tony has excellent expertise, excellent reputation and credibility in the organization. i think when you hear issues about e.e.o., i don't think that it's everywhere -- i think a lot of this is focused on the city d.h.r. and e.e.o., and i

think that tony has an excellent representation, and i think she has a very good rapport with employees. they trust her, and they appreciate are guidance and support. -- appreciate her guidance and support. so i think they're appreciative of her, and i think the employees are supportive of her. and tony, i don't know if you'd like to say a few things and introduce yourself. >> hello. good evening to the directors, and i am a san francisco native, born and raised in bayview-hunters point. also was a product of the public school system and catholic school system here in the city. granddaughter of [inaudible] that was migrators from the south here to san francisco in

1940, and my background is beyond e.e.o. it's in race and equity work. i have probably a good 15-plus certifications in indigenous methodology and also partner nationally with descendants of lynching history. i'm a descendant of three lynching victims and worked in montgomery, alabama with trauma work and bringing them to the table in the most difficult work and circumstances in today's time. utilize story telling, and engaging with employees in conflict around how to come to the table but also realizing that some conflict is not always resolved but it can be managed. so i will be partnering with

numerous people within the agency along with a lot directors around what that ends up looking like so that people with sfmta understanding what the process has been, the historical context, but also engaged with meeting employees where they're at. >> thank you. good to meet you -- or your voice, actually. you have a very big and important job, and it's such a relief to hear that you have so much conflict resolution mediation type of experience and with a lot of lived appreciation for very difficult -- navigating very difficult circumstances. we certainly need someone with your background here. i think, you know, my last question related to the equity

action plan really is on, well, this is a mix of a question-comment. i'm, first of all, very excited to hear about all the fellowship opportunities that are being created. it sounds like a fantastic opportunity. i'm excited to see just how the response would be, you know, whether staff will really welcome this and really want to participate or not. it will be telling for us and maybe just a question/plug whether we will be in all of the upcoming hires that the office will be doing. are we focusing on hiring staff based on language and cultural competencies because that is one of the comments that i at least have personally heard from various staff members when

i have met them, and i'll take that question muted. thank you, chair. that's it for my questions. thanks. >> thanks for the question, and director lai, you were speaking to the office of race, equity, and inclusion, or were you talking about the office of hiring? >> oh, to your office, yes, thank you. >> thank you for the question. that's a great question. i would say we don't have any requirements, and secondly, it's not listed as a desired qualification, either, so it's not something in the screenings that would give extra points when assessing if people are eligible. there's a lot of assessments on working with cultural engagement and underserved communities. i'm working with sfmta for the component of the test, but the

test is actually a citywide test, and a lot of that across every single position highlights racial equity, cultural competency, and consult engagement, as well. it's an attract tiff trait both for this department but across the agency for all of our hires, and as director ackerman mentioned, there's some work that people are being assessed for racial equity across all our jobs, as well. language is not a requirement for the roles, but cultural competency is and expected. thank you for the question. >> great. are there any final questions? seeing none, i want to thank you both for this presentation, and we look forward to future presentations. maybe in the future we can drill down on some of the

issues and be more supportive as a board in helping you execute and for us, the number one issue is we know our staff have worked so hard particularly during covid, and you brought up a really good point how during covid, people were still going to work and they didn't have a circumstance to be allowed to stay home, and we're now seeing a resurgence of the virus, and people's feelings about the vaccines. for me, the most important thing is we can't be successful as an agency if everyone doesn't have a place here and doesn't feel like it's the place for them, and so we have to do everything possible to make sure that we take care of our people and improve the culture, right? the culture of the agency, where the agency looks out for people and people can have a wonderful career and flourish and move up the ranks, and the diverse leadership that

represents the san francisco that we all want it to be. i can't thank you enough for this work, and i look forward to rolling up my sleeves and getting involved in any way that i can. at this so much for this thorough presentation. >> thank you, chair borden. thank you, directors. >> thank you so much. >> thank you. >> so i will close this item number 14, and we have no further questions items on our agenda, and we'll be closing and adjourning in the memory of peter wu and saying good-bye to our dear friend director brinkman, and our next meeting will be scheduled for august 17. so for those that weren't aware, we are meeting on august 17, and we'll see you then. .

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