>> i'm proud to be a native san franciscan i grew up in the chinatown, north beach community port commission important to come back and work with those that live in the community that i grew up in and that that very, very important to give back to continue to work with the community and hope e help those who may not be as capable in under serving come back and give

>> he's joined by vice president rick swig, commissionerokay lopez commissioner and browser as absent .also present is mister ruskin who will provide the board with legal advice. i'm julie rosenberg, the board's executive director. we will be joined by representatives on the departments that will be presenting before the board this evening. scott sanchez, administrator representing the planning department, joseph ducky, director of the department of building inspection, matthew graham,building inspector also with dbi and urban forrester with the office of public works . the board meeting guidelines are as follows. the board requests you turn off cell phones so they will not disturb the preceding balance and departmentresponders are given seven minutes to present their case and three minutes for a rebuttal . they must include their comments within the seven minute period. those not affiliated have three

minutes to address the board time may be permitted if there are a large number of speakers . the legal assistant will give you a warning 30 seconds before your time is up at four votes are required to grant an appeal or modify a permit . if you have questions about requesting a rehearing please email board staff at board of appeals at sfgov.org. public access are of paramount importance at every effort has been made to replicate the in person hearing process. to enable public participation sfgov tv is streaming live and we will have the ability to receive public comments for each item on today's agenda . sfgov tv is providing closed captioning for this meeting. to watch the hearing on tv go to sfgov tv cable channel 78. it will be recalled rebroadcast onchannel 26 . a kiss on the homepage of the website at sfgov.org.

public comments can be provided in 2 ways. you can join the meeting by computer through our website and click on the zoom link or call in to 1-669-900-6833. enter webinar id 824 9376 3719. and again, sfgov tv is broadcasting and streaming this phone number and instructions across the bottom of thescreen if you're watching the lives stream or broadcast . push star 67 and the phone number, wait

>> please note any member of the public makes the without taking a note under the sunshine ordinance.if you intend to testify and havethe board give your testimony evidentiary weight raise your hand and say i do after you have been sworn in order for . do youagree that testimony you give will be truth, a truth and nothing but the truth ? >> i do. >> pleaseput your resume speaker on mute.

we will move on toitem 1, general public , . opportunity for anybody who would like to speak on a matter of the board jurisdiction is noton the nextcalendar . is there anyone who would like to provide general comments ? please raise your hand. i don't see any hands raised we will move on toitem number two. commissioner comments or questions . >> president: i want to congratulate you on your new appointment to the san francisco city attorney. >> clerk: thankyou. any public comment on this item ? seeing no public comment we will move on to item number three, adoption of the minutes. i want tomake sure commissioner chang is with us . i need to move herover. she's participating but she needs to be a panelist . she has been here. right here where i item number three adoption of the minutes before you of the october 27,

2021 board meeting. >> president:unless we have additions we have a motion to enter those into the order . >> clerk: motion from vice president swig to adopt those minutes. any public comment on the motion to adopt theminutes ? seeingnone commissioner lopez . [roll call vote] that motion carries 4 to 0 and the minutes are adopted. we are moving onto item number four appeal number 21 087 , jean mont-eton versus department of building inspection. subject of the property is 4341 ulloa street and the issuance on august 19, 2021 of an alterationpermit . amendmentto permit applications 216-1121 3200 .

stared at location for plan. this is permit zero 2019 1104 6312 on october 27, 2021 upon motion by commissioner lazarus the board voted 4 to 1 to continue this item to november 10 so the parties can discuss theiroptions and if our resolution is achieved plans can be submitted to the board for review . president honda, can you confirm youwatch the video and prepare the materials ? wonderful. when we last spoke the indicated the permit holder should go first to describe th plans that were submitted and we will hear from the appellants and then the apartment . so is mister urchik present?

mister urchik or misterstaying ? >> president: i don't see them. >> clerk: do you mind giving one ofthem a call ? >> let me check the attendees. i don't see them in the attendees. >> clerk: i don't see them. >> give them a call. >> president: you alex. >> president: weneed to have a little elevator music during this time . or the last karaoke night will come out.

... >> julia, he said it was his dad and he will be on in one minute. >> clerk: president honda, is that okay?

>> president: that's okay, i believe they cometo a negotiateddeal . >> clerk: that's my understanding . >> president: hopefully the permit holders and the appellants workthings out . ... >> hello? >> clerk: hellomister urchik . welcome. you have three minutes to address the board. i don't know if you want to show the plans.

you have three minutes and we will hearfrom the appellant . >> i think we came to an agreement on the screening that i proposed. i sent plans to you all and to the neighbor. and my understanding is since moving the stairs is not an option but the screening makes them happy. that's as far as i know. >> clerk: why don't we hear from the appellant, miss mont-eton. >> you are on mute. i hit the mute button. >> we still can'thear you . >> clerk: okay. i see you.

>> i'm here. yes, we agreed to the newplan and ask accepted . >> clerk: wonderful. we will now hear from the planning department. >> this is the planning department and the code provision is code compliant and we appreciate the parties have worked together to come up with aresolution . my only comment or question for the board would be how this is treated in perpetuity. because typically if the board makes something acondition of approval that can never be changed without first coming back to the board . i don't know if the board is adopting this provision to facilitate the settlement or if the board feels it should be in perpetuity . i would defer to your executive director and city attorney but

the board could possibly acknowledge any removal of it will require that in the future and that permit could be appealed to the board of appeals if the parties so choose but i think that's just important when the board takes these actions to facilitate a settlement, that it is clear whether that is to be in perpetuity and can be changed without coming back to the board or if the board would allow them to move it at some point in time without a permit which could be separately appealed to the board . >>clerk: commissioner chang has a question . >> not so much a question. sorry, the remodel needs to happen. >> there's no remodel. >> i just need to hear from the department of building inspection. >> clerk: mistersanchez, are you finished ? >> yes i am finished. >> clerk: we will now hear fro the department of building

inspection . >> it's a code compliant part of the program. >> thank you, so commissioner chang, please go ahead. >> i was going to say that i don't feel the need or see the need to keep this in perpetuity and like deputy administrator sanchez suggestion of allowing this building permit to be appealed in the future if it means allowing the possibility of ithaving to come back to this board . i think it makes sense to keep this as close to a typical permit process as possible. >> thank you. >> clerk: okay, so commissioners this matter is submitted. >> president: would any commissioner like to start?

>> i'd like to thank the permit holder and appellant for working together and resolving the issues. >> clerk: any public comment on this item? we have one person raisingtheir hand. joanne bloomfield, pleasego ahead . this is public comment for item number four . >> this is regarding the apartment building. this is the first time. >> this is regarding the property located at 4341 ulloa street .>> president: that matter will be her later on. >> that's a couple ofcases away, ibelieve you're talking about 20th week . >> clerk:just hang tight, thank you . so commissioners this matter is submitted ? >> president: i'd like to think

of permit holder and appellant for resolving this issue. i too feel as commissioner chang says that we don't need to put an msr restriction on the property. that's the norm normal permit wouldhandle but would anyone else like to make a motion comment ? guess not. scott, what was your recommendation? >> the plan is to facilitate a settlement. >> president: that would be my motion . >> clerk: for clarity we wouldn't adopt plans and they would be issued as a special conditions permit. >> president: that's correct and accept an appeal and apply

the conditions . >> president: what about the appeal rate? >> president: we are just accepting the appeal and applying conditions . >> clerk: accepting the appeal. >> you would be making a motion to grant the appeal and condition to be required and adoption of the revised plans submitted. i noticed there was not a new date on those plans so we will say the plans committed forthe hearing . >> president: that would be fine. >> clerk: and on what basis? >> president: that the plans are in full compliance. >> clerk: the plans are code compliant with the neighbor maybe? so on this motion to adopt the revised plans, to grant the appeal and issued the permit on condition the revised to require adoption of the revised plans on the basis that the

plans are code compliant and address privacy concerns. so on that motion,commissioner lopez . [roll call vote] that motion carries 42 zero so i'll be in touch with the permit holders about the process moving forward and how to submit the revised plans i'll reach out to you tomorrow or actually friday . so we are now moving on to item number five. this is appeal number 21 094, leana perez and francisco armas. subject property is 3421, 3423 and 35 20th street on september 30 september 3, 2020 12 biana chernoguz of an alteration permit units 3421, 3423 and 3425 relocate petition and

convert pantry in the bathroom and kitchen into bedroom on all three units, window replacement on second third and fourth floors and kind front windows replaced in kind with true dividers. permit number 202103317623 and wewill hear from appellant first i believe that attorney miss ken this year . misskim . maybe one of these nights. let's see. >> do you need me to ring? >> yes please. mister young johann was raising has hand in the public comment

portion. did you have a question while wewere waiting ? you might have to, you have to unmute why don't we move you into the panelist position. one moment. okay. so mister johann are you going to proceed? >> i don't know if i can get the videoon here . >> clerk: welcome, you have seven minutes. >> i'm tom drohan, legal assistant to miss leana perez

and their children who live at the unit. of particular issue today is the continuation of the sustained attempt to try to remove them from their home. the report from 2015 has filed a motion to prevent them including appealing therenfro decision , a general civil case and unlawful detail or action which was more recently to be at trial. the trial was delayed that they can issue a notice pursuant to their permit. 65 percent ... [inaudible] this decision is just the latest. we will hear from brad cornell a construction expert who will

speak about why they were not allowed to offer the unit for the same rate once completed as well as having their issues that need to be addressed that have never been addressed since 2015. we'll also hear from their son sergio who has been at the new structure about harassment they suffered. [inaudible]. i will turn it overto brad . >> thank you. just a little background. i'm a licensed general contractor and a registered construction inspector. a member of the international conference of building officials. the american society of home inspectors, national working contractorsassociation . i have been doing inspections for over 40 years now. and i have inspected well over

10,000 pieces of property. i was asked to take a look at plans for 20th street and particularly as itrelated to unit 2423 . and what i discovered was that there were two things that were of concern to me. the first one being that the present kitchen which includes a couple pieces of some of thesedining facilities is roughly 100 square feet . the proposal for the lands is to relocate that kitchen to the entry area. and it would then be a roughly 50 square feet. so it would be half the size. in fact so small that the plans call for therefrigerator to be located in the adjacent living room . which seems a little odd. the present use of the unit is

two bedrooms split back kitchen, pantry and living room and then of course ahallway connecting it all . the proposal changes the slips back to a full bath. it turns the kitchen into what was originally in the plans call the bedroom. when i looked at those plans there was a hand scratch through the bedroom. his particular bedroom and it was relabeled media room not for living, not for sleeping rather. thekitchen as i said it's moved to the pantry . i'm sorry. the kitchen gets moved to the entry area. and so it's really unclear to me whether they are trying to create three bedrooms and one full bath or what this media room is all about. one kind of ancillary issue is

that presently the watergate i located in the kitchen . that becomes a bedroom or even a media room that water heater is probably going to end up having to be relocated in order to meet all the requirements of code . while walking through the unit i did discover a number of issues related to the violations of thesan francisco housing code . they include heating systems that are working. it includes the toilet leakage leaking kitchen drain, damaged walls and tile floor. window deterioration. defective doorlocks . all of these are violations of section 1001b 13 which is general dilapidation and improper maintenance. it's pretty clear to me having looked at many properties over the years that whoever is

responsible for maintaining this property is and has not been a very good job and in fact i think it could be considered substandard housing at this point as defined by the san francisco housingcode . so those are my two issues that i see laying out here thank you very much for listening to me . >> you still havemore time left . >>. >> you for the opportunity to share a little about my family history . we've been working to find success from poverty as an immigrant family. my family has been the victim ofconstant verbal emotional and psychological abuse . we bought apartment in the door of our apartment. [inaudible] ac psychiatric

facility. my concern has been making a profit at the expense of the building and he still refuses to acknowledge it. to this day he refuses to take our rent because hedoes not consider as a tenant . and now he has found his way with this building he's using the renovation to assess the renovation thatwill destroy my family life and psychological well-being . this meeting specifically makes it unlivable for my family and is another attempt to try to dish us out.my siblings cry over the legacy. i am not concerned with evidencepresented, only with the continuance of our family . he has never cared about saving the building and continues to fight repairs to the nail. we are constantly asking to the

pointwhere we don't even feel sick talking to him anymore . we are tired and stressed ... [inaudible] >> @ácustomá you'll have more time in remodel and do youhave a question at this point ? >> i wait for the department. i hope the department can address why thathas made in the room . >> vice president did you have a question? >> i want to ask counsel something. i just want to ask you if you are aware that we have two of my evaluate this permit based on its merits. and on the context of those. those renovations. acting as if this permit is compliant with planning codes

and etc. and also whether this permit is maybe in conflict with the neighborhood potentially and other housing. that is it might be detrimental or not be detrimental but i want to really be clear because that you understand this and it is the question believe it or not. because this is not a body to talk about abuse i a building owner. but it's rather you understand that we have to evaluate this based on the aforementioned merits again. either it's compliant as a permit or if it sits on a neighborhoodappropriately, etc. .

>> that's a question forcounsel . >> the problem here is the neighborhood. >> that's exactly the answer that ineeded for the record . thank you. >> we will now hear from the permitholder . i believe the permit holders attorney is here. miss uchiyama. >> mister swig is right. this is not the forum to be hearing tenant issues and if that's true we've been in a fight with these occupants since 2014. a little background. mister sherman and his wife the property in september 2014 wit a realtor, the seller . all the disclosures and when he went tointroduce himself to the

tenants , he said set about a woman a senior citizen that was supposed to be living there was not living there anymore in this family and their dog were living in the apartment and joined her for $20 a month rent because she had been there since the 1960s and she was the elderly aunt of the appellant miss chernoguz so mister chernoguz surprised everybody as well as the seller and listing agents, who are these people living in this apartment not disclosed to anybody? he bought the apartment in the space and their interests, they have not been living there for four years . the family has had trouble in the unitfor four years but it's been passed from one person to another . so just shortly before escrow closed apparently this senior citizen woman moved out.

and the woman has a right to raise the market rent and these people are unauthorized tenants of this scene since they moved out so mister chernoguz did everything properly to raise the rent that he believes is there market value in 2900 so they raised to stay and then they went to the red board and said that we get $420 rent because somewhere along the line the we were allowed to move in here. then when they allow you to move in there, they said another tenant. another tenant who was 94 years old now. we just moved out. he was the former i guess you could say manager used to take in the machines and so forth but he had no authority according to the seller to the winning apartments and giving away space and whatever to anybody. so needless to say, the rent

for ruled in favor of these people and now all that is currently on appeal at the court of appeals. not past superior court at this point. the court of appeal and that spending so the court has done a lot of ill will between the parties because mister chernoguz says he did everything correct and he's been doing everything to get this building. it's clearly a dilapidated building. the occupant failed to disclose that it was there then who filed a lawsuit. and ironically they were setting the place was uninhabitable and the place is dilapidated and all the things they're complaining about to this day and mister chernoguz an insurance company paid $200,000 to settle the case and now they're still trying to bring us more and more things to try to set up mister chernoguz and his wife for

future lawsuits so they come to court really withvery unclean hands.they're not even supposed to be living there and under conditions that don't have standing to even challenge thepropriety . so currently there is a number of going on because during after the date , the rent for them they got the200,000 from the insurance company .when they realized that mister chernoguz was not going tojust accept them as their tenants . then they started to harass him by calling up the building inspectiondepartment, housing inspection department . this is the second suspension. he had a license to put it new housing down below. these new 80 use on the bottom floor so right before the paramedic hit, they found out they didn't have to move their things out of the bottom floor in order for mister chernoguz

in the new unit downstairs for which he had a permit. but then they called and the complaint and they suspended his permit and again , because just because he didn't want to move in the constructionsite. then the pandemic hit and it's a year later .they did all the construction was closed and all chapters werebeing harassed by them. they held up a piece on the contractors . it's just been an awful mess so here we are again in september 2021 now mister chernoguz is remodeling . he's gotten past all the things he could. now he's got a three units on top of each other. so the unit down below he's been working on it right now because that is where the 94-year-old man used a his family needs to know thathe doesn't live there anymore . so then the people downstairs and want to move out because

they can't afford to pay the rent after the remodel. so the only thing holding up this full construction are the occupants who we plan are not even supposed to be living there who are unauthorized tenants of the person who. that is one of the grounds for terminating the tenancy and occupancy in san francisco. when the people that are living there arenot authorized people. and then their original tenets . so these people as far aswe're concerned are basically occupants . their trespassers and doing everything that had to go out mister chernoguz's constructio . everybody in the building because all the other tenants cooperate with them. and everybody wants this improvement that is made to the property and the 80 use on the bottom one are providing more housing to people in san francisco just enclosing the

complaint , the place is uninhabitable still even though they got to do in the thousands but hedoes everything he could . and they're disingenuous because they're a family of five living there five adults . already benefiting by having three kids in the room, additionalbathroom, renovating the bathrooms . how can they possibly in a disingenuous way say there has been a plan because they went and fit their family of five. currently living in the dining room. >> that's allmister chernoguz wants to add . >> we will have time and remodel but we have couple questions, one from vice president swig and one from presidents honda. >>.

>> he did file brief. it was just 11 hours late and they told me it would rejected . so they did say we approved at this hearing but theysaid there would be an a way to it . but we did have and it's been asking for the board to. >> i want to point out because one of the places that were disadvantaged to do proper research on your case . and i know that in the appellant's brief that there are significant problems and there have been notices of violation from bdi. why historically have those violations not been satisfied?

>> they have been evaded and currently the only outstanding ones are from the housing inspector those items are written in the very permit we'retalking about . >> you just come up on one of the reasons why we have a brief in a timely fashion. it places us and yourself at a disadvantage and i'm sorry to ask what might have been a stupid question but it would've been easier if we had a brief period president honda, thank you. >> you just have to decide which to accept. >> generally speaking when it's delivered late and when it's delivered at the time of the

hearing we do not accept those. that's why there's a timestamp whenthey need to be delivered . my question, it was a long brief from the appellants. the commissioners during this case i've heard all of the information from the appellate and then from the permit holder . when we're looking at these plans occasionally looks like it's retaliatory to me. you have a three-bedroom house and i believe the hotel last week had a larger wet bar in this kitchen area. is there a reason why looking at the bridge beingin the living room , i don't see too many bridges in living rooms. >> it's a one-bedroom apartmen . it was originally a one-bedroo apartment with the dining room . >> president: okay. hold on. please don't interrupt. i'm looking at the plans right now and i see the second floor

plan and i seeproposed second floor plan . though the existing shows two bedrooms, a pantry, a kitchen, a split bath and a living room and in the proposed ic three bedrooms. i see the pantry gone. i see the kitchen reduced toa bedroom and i see an additional back there . and where the kitchen was there is now a media room. not forhabitability. is there a reason for that ? >> it was originally one-bedroom with adining room . itwas a one-bedroom apartment with a dining room . mister chernoguz is trying to make it into athree sleeping room and two bathroom . that was when more than acomedy this family of five . >> is his plan incorrect

because i'm looking at his plans right now and his existing floor plan says two bedrooms, pantry, kitchen, living room and entry . >> the red hatch is actually the dining room. >> but these are his plans that i'm reading, they'renot the tenant's plans . so he's claiming it was a bedroom according to what we havebefore us . >> i think it's a mistake but i'm not exact. >> is there a reason why ... is the attorney going to answer o are you going to answer ? >> mister chernoguz get answer. >> president: the kitchen has been converted to a media room. it wasprior listed as a bedroom and now it's listed as a media room with no sleeping . could you describe why that is server? >> i have an architect with us.

>> he can answer that question. originally it was marked as a bedroom and i don't know what was changed to a media room. >> is your professional online server ? can you answer thatquestion sir ? >> president honda, these plans were originally drawn so that each level, second third and fourth could have anadditional bedroom by converting the kitchen into the bedroom . unfortunately , on the second and third level utilizing the light spell for light for those bedrooms. >> i figured it did not meet thatstandard. >> onthe top floor they allow it because it meets the requirements of thethird floor . on the lower level they don't .

on the lower levels wehad to switch them to media rooms it's habitable space . it's conditions based . you just can't sleep there. >> is your company or are you the desires of this particular floorplan? >> yes. so we drafted these plans on the ownership of what they wanted to do. >> can you give me guidance on this kitchen? it looks like a closet to me to be honest. and i've never seen places that you put the kitchen and a refrigerator. >> originally, they wanted the stills and refrigerator to be in one area. the planning department required that for this official kitchen it had to have enough counterspace so that the refrigerator got relocated from right when you walk in into the living room area to accommodate

that requirement by the planningdepartment . >> president: thank you counselor, that answers my question. >> we will now hear from the planning department . >> subject is 3421 234 21 20th street located within the zoning district. there's basically from the plan to staff of three dwelling units. the permit isproposed to relocate kitchen convert pantry into bathroom andkitchen into bathroom on all three units . replaces on the second third and fourth floor with replacement in kind . it does meet theplanning code requirements . staff was very detailed in their review and analysis of

the conditioning of the permits to require that it has the necessary amenities including the kitchen and the sink and often. it's i think as the board can see it as unusual layouts. it may be codecompliant but it can still be somewhat unusual . i think there is a question the board may have whether this is suitable housing and appropriatehousing . that's something that was in the courtsjurisdiction to meet code requirements . but that is all that we have for our review. i think there's much here beyond the permit and the landlord tenant issues that are not really the permit that's before you. but i'm happy to answer any questions that the board has.

>> we have a president question from president honda and a question from vice president swig. >> president: as vice president swig pointed out we are here strictly on the merits of the permit and attendant situation unfortunately is unfortunately for us is not within our purview. a question i have is ... so this would not be considered an issue with reducingtenant service and habitability ? >> there's no planning code provisions relatedto that and the planning code would allow them to make those interior modifications . so anything in terms of impact on the tenants would be dealt with throughthe rent board and their process is through the rentboard for that butnothing

under the planning code . >> president: thank you mister sanchez . >> clerk: vice president swig . >> vice president:in a couple weeks from the planning department ? i'm being sarcastic because what was the descriptor used relating to the design of the permit? you said unusual but it was evenmore . >> it's unique, it's different butit is code compliant . i can't think of many units that have a kitchen basically in the entry hallway. that's having a refrigerator in the living room and to have music basically multiple meeting rooms. it was unclear to me which rooms could be bedrooms or not. and then at the end of the day do you still have one-bedroom but your packing up the kitchen ? that doesn't make much sense to

me. >> that's what i'm wrestling with. and i wonder if one of the things we have to evaluate is not only that it's code compliance but as i said does this contribute to the stock of the neighborhood that's in conflict or the housing stock of the neighborhood that this puts in any ... there is compromised in any way and if the quality of this apartment in conflict with where would be the typical quality ofthe neighborhood or its housing stock ?that's what i'm wrestling with because it can be, i know the statute is that

i may have to rely on mister valdes before some work here but iwonder if you could help me in the second . but in an apartment if it's compliant, is not up to par with regard to the rest of the neighborhood or in conflict with the quality of the housing stock within the neighborhood where there's not positive things with regard to borrowing housing in the neighborhood. i believe that it may have an alternative arrangement for the permit. can you help me with that please. >> deputy city attorney

commissioners. commissioner swig you assessed that correctly and it was a paraphrase of what mister sanchez indicated earlier as well. it's within the board's discretion to look at this project as a whole and determine whether it's creating quality housing and if you determine the proposed changes to this building for this unit do not provide quality housing it can provide a basis for you to request modifications to the project or denied a permit entirely. >> vice president: coming to the chase given your description of the apartment might this not be quality housing? >> planning department, that's the question for the board to answer. it gives me pause and concern .

but that is fully 100 percent for the board to make that determination. andif you made that determination i could see how you got there . >> i appreciate it.>> we will now hearfrom the department of building inspection . >> dvi here. i don't think i can give you the description on the permit, mister sanchez did not given up. the thing i like totalk about are the notices of violation for the property . there are three open notices of violation, once for building inspection one especially i think could be started for grant was back in 2019. it was addressing spikes, work that was done and without a permit it seems like they came in and got a permit to take that take care of that and that

project has moved along to get that notice of violation closed. the other of those violations are inspection services and we did have some recent activity and the inspector has some notes on the complaint here but it looks like there are mostly maintenance issues and there was a notice of violation issuedon october 1, 2021 . mostly quality-of-life and maintenance issues, something that went and the inspector noted on 5 november, he noted that there were eight standing and like seven or eight has been corrected.

i don't know that it's related to thework that's going to be done . there's a couple of items here that are still outstanding provide a handrail, and electrical outlets, provide adequate lighting .provide floor coverings, repair damaged wall so i would say to the owner and i hate to address it but i think these are items that probably can't be addressed immediately nevermind the status of the permit. i think they couldn't do this work but i would disagree with that and think they probably should move ahead and get those items taken care of. it would be one less violation onthe property. the other violation is for maintenance issues as well . there's some gray area on that and i'm not sure if that's tied to the work but certainly i would encourage them to do the notice of violation and try to get themselves a clean slate

and inrelation to the building permit , it's a code compliance from thebuilding code point of view. it's a typical remodel of the interior unit .we do see the units as fair and people doing different things. that sometimes does happen dvi whenever you come in and pull on a set of plans and our plan checker says you're not getting enough light in their . you can't go with these and you have to take it to some other kind of and a meeting room with setback requirements however it cannot be used for sleeping purposes because it wouldn't meet the new requirements in the building code . so i'm available for any questions. >> thank you. i don't see any questions at this time we will move on to public comment. anyone here to provide public comment on thisitem ? davidelliott, please go ahead .

david elliott. he's being promoted to the panelist. one moment david elliott, please go ahead . welcome. >> i've never been to this kind of meeting before i'm just a member of the public , 40 year resident of the city and i heard both sides but i understand you have to do what's in the best interest of the neighborhood and a longtime family that's been there for 30 years or five years, this immigrant family doesn't sound like it contributes to the improvement of the neighborhood and could cause harm, not help so i hope that the two competing warning signs could work it out. and before your board makes a

decision so i hope you continue this matter so let them come to a resolution and then you can rule on the fax. it sounds like there's a lot in dispute in this case that might be premature to ruleon. i would suggest the continuance . but just a member of the public, that'smy view . that's all, signing off. >> clerk: thank you. we will nowhear from miss bloomfield, go ahead . miss bloomfield, please go ahead. >> i am in the building adjacentto the one we're talking about . and there was an incredible amount of noise would stop and i went outside to go look and there were peoplein their smashing out the walls with crowbars .

and there was glass on the sidewalk. the next day i walked by and there was an electrician doing something with an electrical box that was forthat building . and i asked him if he knew what was going on in the building, the construction or whatever. and he very quickly said i don't know anything about it. are you doing electrician stuff for the buildingnext door west and mark i don't know anything about it .you could see he was like a convict coming back in the house. so i was concerned.[please stand by]

>> if construction is going to start again, i'm going to go through hell again. throughout the pandemic time, the construction continued

until they finished after the construction was finisheded, no one went to the departments to see if anything was wrong or if pipes went through the walls. no one knows what's going on. one time, the bathroom bursted poop out of the third floor. somehow it managed to get fixed, but he never followeded up with me and said, "is everything okay in your apartment?" this was poop from all the people and he didn't even followup. now his lawyer is saying he bought the building in good faith to improve the building. now it's almost what? since 2014 that he bought the building. he said that he was going to take certain things of the building like windows, floors. i'm living there for 40 years. the previous owner, if we had a

problem, she would send someone and get fixed immediately. when i called twice, he said, you should have insurance and have your insurance fix that. the windows of what is the living room, it's hanging. one of these days, those windows will come out and fall on someone on the street that's walking. now, if he's planning to do more construction, what's going to happen to us? i went through hell through the pandemic time with the construction down there. i went down twice and talked to their workers and said, hey, when is this going to stop. not only that, his construction worker drank and smoked every weekend. i went twice and said, hey, can you stop smoking? can you stop having your parties down here. it seems you are in my living room having your parties because i can hear you. the bad jokes that you're

making about my kids. one time one of my sons also said the same thing and what my son had? harassment -- >> 30 seconds >> caller: so how i'm going to be living again throughout another construction. i have to do my work from home throughout this three -- year and a half while the construction was going on. i called vlad and vlad returned my call four days after. the construction -- >> time's up. >> secretary: okay. thank you. is there any other public comment on this item, please raise your hand. if you called in, press star nine. okay. i don't see any further public

comments. we will move on to rebuttal. you have three minutes. >> thank you, i just have to say a couple of things and just with the board detail what the problems are in the unit that can be fixed without these tenants. it was very important what vice president swig brought up regarding the nature of the neighborhood. we're talking about the heart of the mission neighborhood. the heart of the san francisco neighborhood with latin families living there and we're talking about taking a unit that has a latin family in it, evicting them and turning it into a unit that will not be suitable for family dwellings any longer and as somebody pointed out, it seems retaliatory and if you take the whole picture with the fact that this building, vlad has owned it now for nearly eight

years and has done no repairs, no fixing up, nothing to maintain the building, and now he's seeking to do this permit only on one side in order to get these people out of the building. it's retaliatory. it doesn't fit in with the neighborhood in keeping family housing available there and i'd like mr. moral to address some of the specific issues that can be fixed quickly. i also want to note that vlad has cleaned -- that these tenants have reported him to the building department and suspended the building permit earlier for the adu units in the basement. we know that the person who the reporter on these cases is not publicly known, but if the board itself has the ability to look and see who actually made those reports early on, they'll be able to see it was not the

perez family. greg, please. >> i think i'm unmuted now. okay. thank you. so there are some very specific thingses like the wall heater in the hallway that doesn't work. the building code requires a heating system to be permanent. to be able to produce 70°, measure 2' above the floor. 2' from the outside walls, available 24 hours a day and clearly with this heater not working, there's insufficient heat with the violation of the san francisco housing code. it may be as simple as reconnecting something that's disconnected or can be more complicated and but one way or the other, the tenants need to have proper heating. and so while it's easy to

replace the wax ring seal, there's a bigger issue that that's been gone on for such a long time that the floor itself is damaged as is, the sub flooring may in fact extend underneath the tub. that's not an uncommon occurrence which would mean the tub would have to come out. the shower walls are damaged and there's probably damage behind the shower walls into the wall framing. so that bathroom's going to end up probably having to be demolished before it can be reconstructed. there are rodent droppings on the stairs -- >> thank you. that's time. >> secretary: thank you. we have a question from president honda. >> president honda: sorry. let me unmute myself here. so regarding lucille, you feel it's just the wax or is the bolt no longer attached because the floor board is rotted?

>> it could be that the ring is damaged. you don't know until you take it up. the assumption it's simply replacing the wax ring. the wax ring is $3.50. >> president honda: it's lightning $8 now unfortunately. >> yeah. but at this point, there's so much damage to the flooring, it's really hard to know what the source is, but it may involve having to replace the ring especially if the -- it holds the toilet in place or somehow buggered up. so it can become more complicated. in the construction world, it's always a little -- >> president honda: yeah. the other thing is what else on the list repaired? we're talking the heater, the toilet. >> the stash cards, rear lock to the back stairs is defective. that can be pretty easily replaced.' the kitchen drain can be replaced because it's leaking. what else do i have?

there's a couple of electrical resip tycals. >> president honda: are those all on the n.o.v.? >> i would hope that they would be. i would expect that they would be. >> president honda: all right. thank you, sir. >> you're welcome. >> secretary: thank you. we will now hear from the permit holder. will you be speaking? >> during the last couple weeks. why don't you go ahead and explain what you fixed. >> as of today, heater is fixed. the whole sub floor is rotten as the inspector had mentioned as well as the shower walls or

top walls, everything underneath is rotten including walls and floor and that's covered with the permit that's in question right now. as far as, you know, if this is a typical unit, it is a typical unit. this type of kitchen is very common in the area where people are interested more in losing having sleeping areas and this becomes a two legal bedrooms instead of one legal bedroom apartment and it's going to have two bathrooms instead of one bathroom. and as far as the windows go, they're also covered by the same permit and they're on the schedule. all of the windows are falling apart. they're beyond repair. this building is beyond repair. this is not the type of construction that tenants think

i can do. i can no longer do it. i do repairs as they come and the ones that are open right now they're all addressed by the different permits which is part of adu that's still under construction and we're going to fix everything including windows, new bathrooms, everything is covered and we have permits for every item. if it wasn't for delays caught by the complaint, previous complaints and this complaint. you know, we already started construction on this permit because i was required by dbi to put up a sign on the building before the permits could be issued. i had a sign and none of the tenants including the occupants

have came forward and stopped this permit or filed a complaint or an appeal. they waited until i started the war on the unit below and started the whole unit there -- >> 30 seconds. >> -- is demolished right now all the way to the studs. i'm not playing gameses, i want to finish this project and all the tenants have been displaced have a right to come back. the law is the law. i'm not breaking anything. i've got -- i've asked for the permit, i've receiveded the permit and i'm remodelling this place and that's already been started. >> may i close just a couple of comments? >> secretary: president honda? do you want her to speak for

them? >> president honda: i'll give you 30 seconds because the time is expired. >> just for sections of the law, this is clearly not retaliatory because ms. chernoguz is making it seem. housing is really precious here. they have more bedrooms and bathrooms and i think it's reasonable because it's not retaliatory even though they feel as they're being attacked. it's being fairly drawn out for the whole staff. secondly, i understand that the law has always been against a competing the inconveniences of construction -- >> that's 30 seconds. >> secretary: okay. that's 30 seconds. okay. we will now hear from the planning department. >> thank you. scott sanchez planning department. of i'll be brief and focus on

two items. first, there was some concerns raised by the permit holder about the adu permit having been suspended and i don't see how the tenants or the public at all could suspend a permit. that usually happens when an appeal is fileded. i did note there was an n.o.v. issue by d.b.i. and a complaint that they have exceeded the amount of excavation from the adu plans and they had an revision permit if at all, it was suspended i don't see any

real changes that as the kitchen is changed to a media room and the kitchen is relocated to the hall and often when we do see people adding more living spaces. often they'll consolidate the kitchen into one larger room like a living room and have a large space and not kind of split it among multiple rooms but, that's something for the board to make a determination on. i'm available for questions. >> secretary: thank you. we'll now hear from dbi. >> i don't have anything to add unless anyone has any questions for me. thank you. >> secretary: thank you.

commissioners, this matter's submitted. >> president honda: okay. commissioners, who would like to start? ray? >> commissioner: who me? okay. since you asked. i think mr. sanchez captured this best and fortifying the whole thing saying he found reconfiguration concept unique in the first place and then in conflict with actually and what

popped into my brain is why is this unit reconfiguring into something which the zoning administrator was knowledgeable when what is there in the first place is work except for the fact that it's run down. it hasn't been maintained for a long period of time and would be personally suitable to the current tenant and the configuration as is and with proper renovation and compliance to code. so, that makes me scratch my head and go to the advice of the city attorney with regard to, again, what how our findings can be offered and i

run the direction of denying the appeal because your compromising what is otherwise a good piece of housing stock in a good residential neighborhood to something that is according to the -- >> president honda: would you be denying the appeal or granting the appeal? >> commissioner swig: granting the appeal. because you're making it not unusual and also compromising the quality that it offers today, so what's the point? if this landlord was in my view doing the right thing maintaining the neighborhood to its standard, he would be doing a full renovation bringing that housing stock in its current configuration which is certainly compliant and renovating it to a livable standard. so that's my point of view.

other commissioners? >> president honda: would anyone else like to chime in? okay. i will then. looking at the briefs, one, we were -- i would say severely disabled by not having a brief provided by the permit holder, one. so we've got one side. the other thing that i'm looking at is this unfortunate situation has been going on for roughly a decade and it's in and out of superior court and unfortunately this should not be before the board of appeals. what's before us is a code compliant process. whether it's attractive. whether i find it attractive or not attractive is whatever its compliance. for me, i think that i would not -- i would accept -- grant the appeal and condition it that the n.o.v.s get taken care

of prior to any permits being issued. other than that, i mean, i think both appellant and permit holder have an agenda with more attorneys and more courts and that should not be our job to do that. any comment on that? >> i was waiting for our attorney to chime in. >> yeah president honda, what are you talking about with respect to n.o.v.s? >> president honda: at this point, i mean, going through the brief, it was quite extensive and there was complaints starting from 2017, 19, 20, and 21. three, four, and six did not get done. according to the permit holder,

he said he was able to remedy most of those, you know, but what the permit holder says and what the building inspector says and the building department says is another thing. if we deny the permit that potentially is code compliant, what is then -- where is this going to entertain more litigation to be honest. so have we solved the problem? no. all we did was kick the can down the road a little bit. their issues are not going to be solved from tonight's decision no matter what in my opinion. but i don't feel you should get a permit if you've got underlying, outstanding notice of violations. that's, you know, that's whether our deputy city attorney is chiming. >> good evening, commissioners. i just wanted to remind you i believe that the permit holder was the purpose of this permit was to resolve the n.o.v.s that

are outstanding, so i don't understand how the n.o.v.s would be cleared before this project would be issued because supposedly -- >> president honda: so we'd be granting the appeal to those n.o.v.s can be solved? >> no. my understanding was that they testified that some outstanding code violation issues were going to be resolved by this project. >> president honda: okay. >> commissioner: there's something they need access for in order to complete and then others that they're claiming tonight that they don't need access for that have already been addressed. >> secretary: deputy director duffy would like to address the board. >> good evening, commissioners. yeah. i think one of the violations

on the maintenance issues could be fixed tomorrow or in the next few days. there's nothing to stop that. i would agree, it sounds like the dry rot areas on the floor and the bathroom and all that, if you're going to remodel the unit, there's going to be new plumbing fixtures and bathroom fixtures, there's going to be a lot of improvements in there. so i would imagine all those issues would be addressed which i would agree with the city attorney that that would probably take care of the rest of the violations if the work was done because you are remodelling the unit. >> commissioner: and, mr. duffy, since we have your good-looking face on the screen, i have a question with regard given that now there are no notices of violations, those notices of violations have been surfaced in public by virtue of this hearing, therefore they are -- you are now knowledgeable about that and we

should expect that the city regardless of our findings and regardless of the speed at which the -- any renovation might happen that would reorient the apartment or not, these are going to get done any way because you're going to follow up with the building owner and say you've got a notice of violation and you've got to get it fixed. is that correct? >> yes. it is correct in a way. the ones on the notice of violation where there's nine separate items but are maintenance could be done any time. he probably could make a point that without having this permit or any sort of permit how is he supposed to take care of the remaining balance. then you would have to get another permit to take care of that if this permit was tonight. then there's the other type of permit. but that's what he stated and his testimony that he did need

this permit to address some of the items in the n.o.v., of the second n.o.v. which is the dry rot issues. am i clear on that? >> commissioner: thank you. there is only one bathroom and that makes the unit pretty much uninhabitable anyway. that is a common situation where water has been left unattended for a long time. >> yeah. i agree with that. and it's probably an older unit that does need work done to it. obviously, this is a situation with tenants and landlords which is always tricky. it probably does need upgraded at some point. i would say it does need repairs done and, you know. >> president honda: thank you, deputy director. so i see commissioner chang has her hand up. >> commissioner chang: thank

you, president honda. i was just going to say this is a tricky case in the sense that what is before us is a code compliant project with it clearly a long history of disagreement between the tenant and the landlord and i agree with deputy zoning administrator sanchez's assessment that the configuration of the unit is certainly unique. i don't know if i agree with the permit holder's assessment that this sort of arrangement is typical especially in had this neighborhood. generally speaking for families, but kwon if that's -- if that specific issue can be decided by this body or nod. that's not entirely clear to me.

city attorney, would you mind addressing that for this commission. >> evening again, commissioners. city attorney. the board has discretion to consider the impacts of a project on a neighborhood. it is in your discretion to determine you don't like the project because of the way that it's proposed to be con figured. if you think it isn't good for the neighborhood or provides quality housing for residents or the city. so it's up to you to look at the plans to determine whether or not you believe this provides quality housing or you think changes can be made or if they need to come back with a different project. >> president honda: thank you. >> commissioner chang: thank you. i mean, i think just separating the issue between the tenant and landlord which seems to be incredibly challenged or difficult to separate from the

appeal that's before us and just looking at the plans, i agree with scott sanchez in that, you know, having a kitchen and relocating it and reconfiguring it as part of the living room is more common where you create sort of a great room and that seems to be a potentially more livable situation that's also not taking into account the stacking of plumbing and utilities and things like that. that's just purely from a configuration standpoint to create what might be a more livable, you know, situation for potential tenants. so i will offer that opinion in termless of the lay-out. >> president honda: i agree, commissioner. you know, if you look at the floor plan, you know, evidently, you were a san francisco planner for awhile, if you look at the entry coming in, you enter into the kitchen literally. and so, but getting into design

is a tricky slope. of that's like telling people what color car they should have when the city and county says that's -- this is all code compliant. potentially, i mean, i see rick's hand up as well, let me finish my thought. i think we should come together and figure out what we're going to do. i wouldn't mind having a design change if that's where you're leaning to make this go forward. vice president swig. >> commissioner swig: sure. i'm ready to make a motion. i'm ready to uphold the appeal on the basis that the unit as presented and con figured deteriorates the quality of the unit and therefore and does not maintain the level of quality housing which is available in the neighborhood. >> president honda: so, would you like to make that motion or

would you like to give the project sponsor the option of correcting those design things that we feel we don't particularly care for? >> commissioner swig: you know, i have to ask mr. sanchez something. i don't want to put the project sponsor at a disadvantage and completely hamstring him. [please stand by]

>> this also has a window replacement. and i think it may be inefficient even for the board to continue this to allow for a revised plan to be submitted could then be accepted by the board. then we couldhave a hearing . because whatever the future

permit will be the old to the board anyway so maybe under this permit we could at least get it resolved the board desires tohave the kitchen restored to its previous location or have a better design for the kitchen . theycould come back or something like that to the board in the future . >> if we took your advice we might advise the permit holder is that he revise his plans to sustain the appeal or the exact configuration of the apartment as it is with appropriate upgrades according to code violations to the elements of the apartment that had been noted. >> the plants couldalso include the driver in the bathroom .

>> given that would alleviate significant burden of harm to the permit holder. i would support us postponing a decision and allowing the permit holder to come back. with a revised project that would not necessarily change the configuration of the apartment address the noted notices of violation to make the apartment a doublehabitat . >> i believecommissioner chang had her hand up ? >> i apologize,thank you president honda . i think mister finch has addressed my questions and concerns which is that there appears to be a number of notice of violations to the

address and i want to make sure that one way or another especially in terms of life safety and health they can be addressed without having to wait an entire year to address those concerns. >> commissioner lopez, what are your thoughts there. >> i'm inclined to support a continuance and it feels like the most, the outcome thatmakes the most sense to me . we've got, there's a lot of air on the ball with everything going on and. >> were deep in the weeds right now. >> i think anything that may provide a little bit of clarity on the content i think just for the benefit of the permit holder and appellant i think i want to stress we've said before we really have to narrow

question in front of us as to the propriety of the permit. and if it's up to code. that kind of gets most of the way there and i do think that the observations about how unique /unusual it is comparing it to the sizable wet bar with the fridge in the living room. it's just makes it seem like the is more to the story here potentially. i think i think having those items addressed would in the future plans and future hearing would satisfy back question and take it off the table if you could say that either the kitchen remains in its current location and substantially the same size with all the major plumbing and appliances in one

room. or if they keep it in the current location but again move the fridge and all the relevant necessities into the same room and i think itwould be more comfortable to move forward on that basis . >> i see that hand.>> i would ready to second that motion. let's talk to the representative for both appellants and i see where we're leaning at this point. the questionwould be how much time they would need . >> let me before they chat let me just an and support the previous commissioners direction which i think it is which would be for continuance and with influence to the permit holder to present plans without substantial change to the current configuration thus

maintaining the quality standard of the quality configuration and size wise and service wise of the apartment and with a primary orientation towards carrying notice of violation andcreating a secure environment . now you can go if you want to. >> you see the permit holder. can someone turn there, i hear a lot of background noise. someone put it on mute. and i should ask counsel for the permit holder how much time would it take for you to

redesign that floor. we see the direction this body was taking and the initial proposed motionwould be that you can't get a permit for a year . so this one allows them to redirect it again. you've heard comments from the zone administrator from building and from each of our commissioners on that kitchen there is not really appropriate. so how much timewould your client need to present new plans and come back to this body ? >> this is ronald. it's easy to make a plan. it doesn't take a terrible amount of time and the holidays

will get a little more difficult but what's really going to make it a lotmore difficult and time-consuming having great direction . i feel like things like you guys are speaking somewhat in generalizations. like is adding the second bathroom a good or bad idea. and to just have clarity and speaking or like presenting those things are good. i would say thefourth floor being able to add an actual bedroom add value. best value in my eyes along with the bathroom .>> let me give you a little direction here. i think with this kitchen for three bedrooms is a little offset. and coming off your welcoming their guests as they come into your front door. so i don't want to really have

to design your property but you saw that this board was leaning to the nine accepting the appeal and denying your permit. so that would mean you start from scratch next year. how much more direction would you like to get because you were in this conversation with the zone administrator and before commissioners giving their rates.>> i would like toknow if i push the kitchen entirelyinto the living room so it's like a living room kitchen dining area . is that sufficient ? >> that's very common in this dayand age for them to do it . if youguys really want that bedroom , that's a choice that you got but you got to remember you're going to come before this same body over the after those plans are dead and we make that decision.>> i just wanted direction so i can

present something that. >> i see my vice president has his hand up so he's going to give you a little direction. >> you had some plans.you had a media room meant to be a second bedroom. that's off the table. you know that, i know that . it's in place ofwhat is legal. second as somebody who's built many buildings it was mentioned about the configuration of the plumbing . how the plumbing stacks. it's goingto be difficult for you anyway if you fool around with the plumbing because the plumbing will not stack properly in that building . so the best place for the plumbing stackis probably where it is right now with a new floor, new toilet and appropriate safety and security . so you've heard that from my president that the kitchen is insufficient and you heard from others that placing a or creating a living room that will also have a a refrigerator

is insufficient and appropriate and odd. i think we're going to use is to then in a direction to maintain as best you can with improvements the configuration that exists today unless you can figure out a way that stacks the plumbing properly and also configures the apartment in a way that it is no longer in the words of mister sanchez unusual. >> commissioner chang. >> that's okay, thank you. the only thing i would say is that it's not to this board to design the unit for you. i think we're just commenting

on the fact that it feels really unusual and i think what is enough purview is the livability of the unit and whether or not that contributes benefit and a beneficial manner to the neighborhood and housing. and i think that what strikes us in the design is the odd configuration of the kitchen but also the size of it. i think the task for you as a designer is to come up with a design that improves that and removes this red flag that we're identifying as a less desirable unit that can remain as part of the housing long-term so i think that's what i would say. i think there's obvious conveniences to having the plumbing stack where it is. that's not up to us to decide.

i think it's up to you and the project sponsor and the property owner to kind of figure that out. >> with that sorry if you got your hand up. >> how to get down. >> how much time do you want to talk your client and when would you like to come back tothis body and to my executive director ? >> we can put them on december 8. otherwise it's january and we havejanuary 5 , 12th or 26. >> president: those are your times. so could youconfirm right now and let us know before we make this motion . >> i believe i can make a modification at least preliminary fightdecember 8 . and present to someone and i was wondering who then would get direction to make sure

these are kind of in line with everyone's ideas. prior to that december 8. >> your not going to have any conversation with us till december 8. so that's a meetin that at this time would like to see all the information on the timing so that we can deal with that. to the as you had commissioner chang . >> i would say you could use the planning department to help you perform your purview. i think they are professionals who are very familiar with reviewing plans and being able to comment on their conformity and just livability. >> counselor. december 8, doesthat work with your plans . >> that's fine with us.

we think it's a good move by the board to give this a longer look. i would only request that we are also able toget copies. of the plans prior to that meeting. we have been asking for these plans for quite some time . >> that will happen this time otherwise the canned will be kicked down even further. who would like to make a motio ? >> i'll make the motion to offer a motion to continue this matter untiljanuary once . >> december 8. >> december 8 or i will be attending. and at that time we would expect new plans reflecting the discussions of this board. for the purposes of given improving this project.

>> maybe for clarity you want to continue for the permit holder can submit revised plans that have to design that makes the unit more desirable, livable address the outstanding issuesunder the mlb's ? >> as always you are the best editor. >> we should justhave julie make our emotions . >> on vice presidents.>> motion tocontinue this item , commissioner lopez. [roll call vote] that motion carries 4 to 0 so for the permit holder we would like the plans the thursday prior to the hearing and by 4:30 p.m. you can email them to us as well as appellate. please reach outif you have any questions . >> thank you. >> we are now moving on. >> thank you.

>> we are now moving on to item number six, appeal 21 093 department of public health subject of property 5135 third street appealing the suspension september 22, 2021 of all-night pizzas retail tobacco permit. suspension for 20 days due to illegal sale of flavored tobacco products at the establishment. permit number t 76812 and dph here in case number s and k 21 01 and as a preliminary matter president honda . >> i am recusing from the syrian. financial interest within 500 feet . my wife owns a property 425 feet away from it so i am now recusing speeds. >> clerk: i will call you back if this item is submitted. we will hear from theappellant first. and misterchattering , you have

seven minutes . >> my name is malan chattery and i own all-night pizza 3155 fifth street. the van was implemented a few years ago and we had a lot of inventory and we started not selling it when the tobacco inspector mentioned it . sorry, when the health inspector mentioned it we thought it would be better to start off mrs. . once the inspector arrived the product was shown to her. at the time of the inspection we were verbally told that black and mild jazz and casino were not to be flavors and they were also not known to be flavored and the inspector said that the tobacco inspector did tell us at the time of the

filing inspections explained that more tips are known to be flavors butwe did not know that at the time . and so one thing that was pointed out was the black and mild tips, we didn't know at the time. i just wanted to say that tobacco wholesalers and the other tobacco wholesalers they do say that it's okay to maybe sell it to the convenience groups like swisher sweet classics which are the red ones the black and mild. they do this at a lot of stores in san francisco at half the flavors and because they didn't believe they were flavors. i did find a couple of stores that did have them when i was going around getting gas or getting groceries and things like that. also swisher sweets also told us that swisher sweet classics

are notnecessarily flavors . so we kept selling the large form because we were told they were not doing flavors and we started selling these shirts sweet plastics because we were told by their representatives they were not considered to be flavors and we were told otherwise bythe inspector young . so inspector young told us that they are not flavors but the other inspector , i don't remember his name said they have a flavored drink. we don't consume alcohol so we don'tknow what that is .it's the other ones like honey bourbon have honey in the name or swisher supreme which has cream in it.

those are moreobvious than something called dark stout. we would ask customers does this have any flavors and input and everybody would say it's smooth , smoother than the original so we didn't really notice. at the time we didn't know that black and miles areconsidered flavors and the tobacco inspectors told us we can't sell them because they have again , they were a sweet . so like right before the final inspection , my father had accidentally bought like a mild wine by mistake and the nonrefundable policies the wholesalers were able to do that because we had to sell them in store.and like yes. so during the final inspection of the tobacco inspectors, we found some swisher sweet classics which were not for resale. they were actually meant to be picked up by my father's friend

who had a different store. i think that's what that about covers everything. thank you. >> we will out here from the department of public health,ms. lopez , cityattorney representing them this evening, welcome . >> dolly lopez with the office of the city attorney appearing on behalfof the department of public health . as you know we are here this evening because the appellant currently appeals dph is 20 day permit suspension. however, appellants appealed lack merit for several reasons. the first reason being that appellant does concede that they have made prohibitive flavored tobaccosales . second, appellants do not challenge the suspension process. third, appellants do not challenge the weight of suspension.

fourth, as weaver this evening appellants identified confusion as a basis for their appeal. however confusion is not a basis to uphold their appeal. specifically office of 2018 dph engaged in an educational enforcement campaign. and with that they provided all retailers in the city with a flyer. the flyer was basically informational to all retailers to inform them of the band and provide examples of what constitutes flavored tobacco. in the flyer there was contact information for thedepartment . andencouraged retailers to reach out to the department if they had any questions .and in addition to the educational outreach specific to this appellants dph conducted at least for compliance inspections. during these inspections, this

was also an additional opportunity for the two engage with the department if they had any questions about the man. the record reflects that despite the numerousengagements dph had with appellant , appellant continued to stop the shelves and self band flavored tobacco products within the city. lastly, appellant had asked in lieu of the 20 day suspension that they be given a final warning for some type of fine of some sort. however the health code as outlined the maximum threshold that dph has authorized to engage in for example the first time violation could result in to a maximum of 90 day suspension. a second violation may result in a maximum six-month suspension and a third violation may result in a maximum one year suspension. as you know dph is educational based and try to work with permitteesthroughout the same

county and to that end they , gated regulations that the enforcement mechanisms that implement when it comes to flavored tobacco bands. in these regulations dph has outlined the minimum extension threshold. for example afirst-time suspension would result in a 10 day suspension . a second violation would result in a 20 day suspension .a third violation would result in a 40 day suspension and a fourth orsubsequent violation would result in a 90 day suspension . in this case appellant was issued two notices of violation which encompassed several different states where they violated civil ordinance. by stocking or selling prohibited flavored tobacco products. dph is 20 day suspension is way below the maximum threshold withinthe health code which authorizes a six-month suspension .

converting the 20 day suspension to a final warning or a fine would not stop the appellants behavior of selling for permanent flavored tobacco products despite dph is numerous attempts and warnings. for these reasons dph asked the board of appeals to please uphold dph's 20 day commitment suspension. appellant retail tobacco permi . commissioners iwant you to know we have dph staff withus this evening available to answer any of your questions . thank you . >> thank you. we don't have any questions from the commission at this time. we're moving on to public comment vice president swig i know that we have five appeals subsequent to thisand a lot of public comment so i would like to recommendwe limit public comment to 2minutes . okay, so moving on to public

comment . the first public comment or is willy thomas . please goahead. mister thomas, you have three minutes . i'm sorry, two minutes. willy thomas, please go ahead. >> can you hear me?>> you have to minutes. >> this is very different in the community. they have donated to the communityand they have helped me . i have been, update stopover in tobacco because i get it. they don't know how everyone writes me. i can't go there, i can't buy it. they were very good tome, that's why i've been here in this room. if i need them for my health they provide for my family . and they're very good to the community . and what's going on right now i

just don't understand. they don't provide mewith no flavored tobacco at all and i get upset for that . because they don't have that no more. and then they just apply for the unemployed community and i appreciate you than being in the storeand that's why i came here . i appreciate them very much. they helped me out a lot with groceries andeverything. that's all i have to say and i thank you for letting me come in here . >> thank you. isthere any other public comment on this item . please raise your hand. we havedylan . please go ahead. >> somebody needsto go on youth, i can't hear . hello, you have tominutes .

>> i want to say i've been coming to all my pizza for the last 10 years and they provide food, pizza and cigarettes and right now i work at ucf as the medical center and i work long shifts and when i get off i like e cigarettes and stuff and this is one of the only stores open late at night i kind of depend on their store to get my cigarettes and all my other necessities so thank you. >> thank you. we will now hear from amber. please go ahead,you have to minutes . amber bay. we can't hear you. can you unmuteyourself ? you needed your self. please go ahead.

you have to minutes. >> i was born and raised and i have been coming to the pizza shack for a very long time. >> clerk: we can't hear you. please try again i'm using your self. >> can you hear me?>> we will restart the time. >> i was born and raised here in the neighborhood and i've been coming for a very long time. like i give my tobacco from the shock and the shack is really just a few blocks away from my house and it is great for me and my family to get what we want at all hours of the day. and if i need something to like mocha at midnight. i just walked to the shack and get my smokes and something to eat and my grandfather who also

is a wheelchair-bound person who smokes, was a long time smoker gets his smokes from here and he doesn't really smoke any other locations because he didn't trust anybody so it will be hard for him to go get something to eat and smoke if the shack has been suspended. like my family knows the pizza shack people from more than two decades and they've been very good to like us and the community and asking that the shack not get suspensionfor their tobacco license . >> any furtherpublic comment on this item? please raise your hand. if you call and you can pressánine . i don't see. i see a caller. there is no name but please go ahead you're raising your hand. you pressánine. now trypressingásix . that will unmute and unable you to speak. go ahead. hello, welcome.

you have to minutes. >> i want to say i've been in the bayview or over 45 years. i've been going to the shack or almost that long. it's been changing but with the people that they have their no , like i said. they're good to us.if you need to like you said these kids something to eat or somebody did smoke and need a little pack of cigarettes. they you know, they're very liable people they're good people . so it's like i feelthey shouldn't get suspended . they take my grandkids and get their ice cream cones and things like that . that's what i want to say that it's unfair they should be suspended. thank you. >> we will now hearfrom the caller whose phone number ends

in 1275 . please go ahead. pressásix. the caller who ends in 1275. you have to minutes. >> can everybody hear me, good morning commissioners and parties and members of the community. my name is richard jackson and i am a member of the bayview and i personally know norma. she has been in the bayview for over 20+ years.i have been going to her establishment. i'm and she has the best tobacco in the neighborhood. and she did follow guidelines with the tobacco. of course i smoke flavored cigars and when i go to purchase mama never has flavored cigars. so that was a problem but at the same time she had an following ordinance when the tobacco ordinance came into play during the pandemic and it will be sad and for her not to

be in the community anymore so selling tobacco. she's been a help to the community like others have said. she has fed and closed people and she's been a big uplift in our community and it would be sad for not have her tobacco license because she would definitely lose the financial a lot of finances. so i am on here supporting my people from the neighborhood and i would lovefor her to continue to have her tobacco license . thank you everybody . >> thank you. any other public comment on thisitem, please raise your hand . if you call it can pressánine. i don't see any other hands raised but we will move on. one hand, herewe go. moto, please go ahead . >> my name is lucille. i was commenting on being a longtime resident as well.

and the community and they've been people that have been here to serve us. for a long time. very very long time. it's not just a thing about tobacco. as far as i'm concerned. there's many other products and things that they serve. the two of us. as well. but yes. that's why i'm chiming in. just like i said. it's just been a long time. you know, a longtime business in the community. very helpful to the residence here. and that's just what i wanted

to put in. it's not just a thing about tobacco. as far as i'm concerned. even though they do have that as well. and i am also a purchaser of tobacco products. from there. thereestablishment. but yes. it's a lot more than just that to me . so i just wanted to chime in i said and put that out there. >> 30 seconds. >> thank you very much. is there any further public comment on this item? if you called and you press ánine otherwise you need to raise your hand on zoom. i do not see any further publi comment so we willmove on to remodel, mister chattery , you have three minutes . mister chattery?

>> i didn't realize i was on mute. like i saidpreviously we do question the 2018 suspension being changed to a final order . when we stopped selling tobacco we don't plan to continue to do so. like our customers have said we've been serving thebayview community for the last 30 years and we plan to continue to do so if given the opportunity to serve our customers . we serve not only tobacco but a lotof other things like pizza, fast food and other consumable goods. we are open seven days a week . a lot of customersrely on us regardless of if they work during the day or the evenings . because of our long hours the community relies on us for food and consumer goods. and we have educated ourselves

on what is not allowed and allowed to be sold and if we're ever unsure i know now to contact sf dph and make sure if we have any questions. if you do believe we need to be penalized i asked instead of a 20 day suspension we get a fine because a suspension would have a long-lasting effect on our small business whereas a fine would be short-term because we do plan onserving the bayview community for many years to come . thank you. >> clerk: thankyou. we have a question from vice president swig . you are on mute. >> vice president: sorry, this may requireclarification from dph . what we're talking about is potential of a suspension simplyof selling tobacco products .

am i correct in that? mister chattery? >> clerk: let ms. lopez? according to the order it's just that tobacco permitbut we will hear from ms. lopez . >> just so you know dph staff is on thecall but they were . the violations focused on the sale of flavored tobacco products. >> vice president: it's a yes no question. is this suspension limited and i want mister chattery to confirm you understand that, is this suspension limited to tobaccoproducts only ? >>yes . >> you understand that? because in the test only from your community. which was very heartwarming and

a great complement to your cells and your family, it sounded like the demise of the store. and it what this is is for the community is unfortunately a suspension of selling tobacco products only so everything else would be available.>> thank you. so wewill now hear from the department of public health, ms. lopez . >> one 21 point i want to make a rebuttal is appellant mentioned the comment that they understand that both sellers in the city are also engaged in selling tobacco products. i want to point out to the commissioners that there was no evidence on the record that other wholesalers are engaged in prohibitive tobacco sales. >> thank you. >> we have a questionfrom commissioner lopez . >> can you hear me.

thank you. my question is for ms. lopez, deputy city attorney lopez. i understood if i read your brief correctly and some of your opening remarks that the 20 day suspension is it sounds like it's well below the maximum in this type of violation scenario so could you explain this kind of what the range of violations would be for something likethis and then for our background as well . our fines are a component of potential penalties this type of violation and if so, are they used exclusive of suspensions in conjunction wit suspensions ? whatenforcement mechanisms do you see in this area ? >> thank youcommissioner lopez . i as background the health code

is an ordinance that basically prohibits the sale of flavored tobacco. within this ordinance it authorizes the director to implement suspension and it basically says that if there's a violator of this ordinance which also includes other coefficients for example telling to minors, etc. if someone were to engage in a violation of this ordinance the first suspension would be a maximum of 90 days. a second violation would be a maximum of six months and a third violation may result in a maximum suspensionof one year and this is in regards to tobacco sales . apart from that that ordinance also authorizes the director to promulgate regulations for the enforcement of theordinance . after the flavored tobacco ban was implemented dph decided to promulgate rules and regulations to provide further guidance andclarification about

its enforcement to the retailers within the city . in those regulations it says folks who areviolating the ordinance , i.e. selling flavored tobacco the penalty would be suspension . generally the departments practice is a first time violation would result in an abatement meeting goes out and sees prohibited products they will tell the retailer share first time we will give you 72 hours to remove all flavored tobacco off the shelves andcome back to reinspect to make sure you're incompliance . after that , for example a first subsequent violation would result in a 10 day suspension. a subsequent result would result in a20 day suspension . subsequently a 40 day suspension and lastly a 90 day suspension. so those are theregulations that dph promulgated those are the kinds of criteria . in the criteria it doesn't

contemplate admin penalties but i will tell you that the health code, the ordinance does allow dph to engage in admin penalties. generally for violations of the ordinance . however dph takes it a step further and says or flavored tobacco we are not looking for money. were looking to stop these products from being sold within the city stop engaging in addiction for minors therefore we're engaged in suspension and that's played out and i guess thelegislation . >> where just so we'reclear where are we in that they work ?how many violations are we talking about here ? >> that's a great question because this record has history. and i tell you that i cankind of give you a quick overview . in december 31, 2018 dph went out because they knew this flavored tobacco ban was ready to hit the streets but they

want to give all the retailers in the city a fair notice to kind of an educational outreach. whenthey went on december 31, 2018 to appellant's , establishment they saw they were still selling limited tobacco products and said you can't do it, here's the flyer, etc. then august 14, 2019 dph went back out again to conduct compliance inspection. that is an opportunity dph provided for an abatement that we have 72 hours to remove the hope prohibited products and we will engage in any suspension. that's what happened. after that may 7, 2001 dph conducted another complaint compliancesuspension . client was found to have flavored tobacco products and therefore dph issued its first notice of violation. subsequently , do in second 2021 dph went out for a subsequent compliance

inspection and again appellant was engaged inprohibited conduct i.e. havingflavored tobacco products on his shelf or selling . therefore dph issued its second notice of violation . after that dph issued a notice ofinitial termination saying going to suspend , or going to move for suspension based on these two. appellant appealed it to administrative hearings which is basically a series of events administrative level where you have a neutral administrative hearing officer hear the case . the hearing caseupheld the suspension appellant then appealed that and we are here before you . >> thank you. >> thank you. so we arecommissioners this matter is submitted . >> commissioners, comments. motion. anybody want to start? commissioner chan. is that your handup ? >> i have a question for the

appellant. is it clear to you now what is flavored tobacco and what is not and you know, i can appreciate that there are a lot of committees for someone who does not consume alcohol. it might be challenging to fulfill all the different types of flavors. but you know, each time there was a notice of violation did you remove what was told to be flavored off the shelves and then it was like a misunderstanding of what was truly flavored tobacco? to the multiple notices a little bit more please? >> i'm sorry, me andmy family are doing a sit down . everything has to be either original or written on it.

it can't have any other descriptionon it . and i'm sorry this is in regards to the flavors. so for the first inspection we basically had most things and the second one in 2021 i believe we had swisher sweet classics the dark stout. which i honestly thought they were okay. and the final inspection was like honestly a processing error on my father's end.but i do want to point out that i don't know if we have any retailers or wholesalers in the city. like all of this on all the stores are most of the stores go to brisbane or south city. brisbane being bitcoin the south city being the biggest costco mostly to tobacco

products and you should be located in the city many years ago and they first opened in sanfrancisco but now they're located in brisbane . >> thank you. my initial commitment is that i think the appellant has madean honest error . just a quick classification question from the city attorne . is the 20 day suspension just, is that the extent of the punishment for lack of a better termfor the notice of violation ? for all the tobaccoproducts . >> correct and is currently

required for dph. >> you just went onmute . miss lopez. can you hear me now? >> sorry, my screen is frozen. yes. the suspension is the only quote unquote penalty that the appellants are facing and it's a penalty that'sprescribed and outlined in departments rules and regulations . >> have you had this imposed on other establishments as well? >> i'm goingto defer to the department of public health on that because there in this when it comes to enforcement . >> do you have cost onhow it's been implemented ? >> hello commissioners.

i see inspector janine young and i work for the department ofpublic health . i'm here with the program manager of the retail tobacco program program as well as jennifer coward. as to your questions we have not had to suspend our businesses for flavors yet. this would bethe first suspension . >> got it, thank you. >> president: any other commissionerthere's one left .any other comments? i will weigh in. these cases are always opposed. this is small business. it clearly servesthe neighborhood.

clearly it has the respect of some neighborhood constituencies . and it is the last type of organization that i, i will speak formy fellow commissioners . the hard part comes in that if we don't support the department of health with a regulation that is very clear and with especially with unfortunately a multiple offender because there have been, this isn't the first time the health department went by and noted that there was a breach of the regulation. so if we don't uphold what the board of health has to uphold i believe we undermine the board

of public health and that we undermine citydepartments in general . this is the hard part because although i would like, i always like to support smallbusiness . i love the neighborhood and clearly we have some reporters today in public comment who support the business . i really find it hard to find a way around this penalty for abusing what are the rulesand regulations . it's like getting caught for the third time rolling through that stop sign and but with the same policeman and he says i let you go twice but man, the thirdtime i've got to, i've really got to do this .

and so i don't think that i could support anything but upholding the situation as it stands now and to deny the appeal. sorrowfully. >> president honda, may i say something. >> in this. i am the person. >> commissioner swig, my apologies, i forgot about his refusal. i have an obligation to tell you something. i received word that i believe there was an error in the recent departments testimony. i think there was a miscommunication on what the question they heard was their response that they provided so if you would allow it i think it would be great if the department to clarify the response to the question if thatwould be okay for the commissioners .>> if it's fine if it adds to thequality

of the hearing , please >> jennifer, janinecan you please make a clarification ? thank you . >> apologies commissioner chang.i think we heard your question wrongand i want to clarify that you asked if we'd ever had a flavored tobacco permit suspension . i think we were thinking you meant to the board of appeals to be contested. we have had flavored tobacco violations in the city and they have resulted in permit suspension this is jen calloway, the program manager so thank you for allowing us t clarify . >> couldyou place a number on that ? >> we've had two other suspensions and two different neighborhoods other than this neighborhood . >> vice president: sorry commissioner chang but ammons is betting maybe your questions. and was the protocol that was the same protocol in this case

followed? that is notice by another notice and then finally suspension? >>correct. we lead with education outreach absolutely . >> any other thoughts or may i make a motion or with somebody else like to make a motion ? >> our time in. i couldn't get comfortable with vice president swig with your remarks about not undermining the departments enforcement efforts. i think it made a lot of sense to me and just given the number of notices, i wouldn't be comfortable with upholding the appeal on its base.

i think given that this is still a relatively new regulation , just in the last few years and while the education rollout i think is admirable i think just even trying to keep track of in the briefing the different labeling of these products and the fact that the wholesalers are not operating in the city and or our operating products that obviously don't come under the purview of i'm assuming that brisbane and south city don't have analogous regulations. i can see how there's a possibility for honest mistake . i could be comfortable with something like a 10 day suspension if we have that authority to do something like that but i couldn't do away with it entirely. >> i'm sorry. >> this is the department of

health. city attorney please. >> i'm more than happy to defer to dph. pph has promulgated rules and regulations to put every tobacco retailer on notice of what expectations are. the first time you get a pass and then after that and with what the subsequent suspensions would be. by having these rules and regulations it puts everyone on noticeand its equitable across-the-board . you've heard testimony that dph has suspended two previous retailers for engaging in similar conduct . dph again asked asks that the commission please uphold the 20 day suspension becausethat is consistent with dph rules and regulations . >> any wiggle room in the 20 day ? is it illegal? i knowconstituting a fine is

not illegal, it does not meet the protocol . is 10 days, are we taking liberties or can we take liberties by changing it from20 days to 10 days ? >> these are mythoughts and i would love to hear dph's response to this . the way it spelledout his first violation is 10 day suspension, second day is a 20 day suspension . on its face and i know dph has beenconsistent withimplementing that historically . dph, anything to add ? >> i would agree and it's about the occurrences, notjust about the notice of violation . those are kind of two separate things in our rules and regulations states that the occurrences, the first occurrence that we see the violation, thesecond, the third. we saw that violation four times .

we're going down this lane anywhere basing it on and will be issuedeven though we have the right to have it be based on the occurrence of the violation . that's how the law is written in the rules and regulations. i think that we then very fair and have tried to work with the business owner and we appreciate him as a business and being able to sell other items that are not tobacco during this time . and also just noting that he continued to sell the wine tobacco flavor which i feel like wine is a very well-known alcohol and he also stated that he was aware but continued to sell it anyway during his testimony. >> from your point of view you already modulated the potentia penalty from 40 to 20 . >> yes sir.

>> there is no further public comment. >> i apologize, icut you off . >> no worries, myquestions were actually addressed in the conversation . >> president: do wehave a motion ? if you want to make the motion i'll make a motion to deny the appeal on the basis that the penalty was according to the department of health regulations and proper notice to get to that penalty was offered. now julie will change my motio . >> i actually think that's perfect . >> we have a motion from five

president swig to deny the appeal on the floor and basis of the penalty is consistent withdepartment of public healt regulations and proper notice was provided to the appellant. that motion commissioner lopez . [roll call vote] . that motion carries. and theappeal is denied . we're moving on to the next item. ineed to let presidents on the back in . >> vice president: a 10 minute break. >> thank you for your great, thank you for your patience. we will resume at 7:45. thank you and iappreciate your patience everyone .>> ... ♪

♪ >>.♪ ♪ >>.

>> the board of appeals meeting for november 20 october 20, 2021 we are on item 7a, 7b, seven c, 70 and 7e. the appellants are joshua. >> ,a trainer and jg bollard and lance carnes versus san

francisco public works your own of the urban forestry . 400 larkin street. appealing on august 9, 2021 of a public work order. approval for the order of urban forestry removes ficus trees with a replacement, each of these falls within at least one of the conditions warranted in 1831513 removal for ficus trees. great weight is given to the tree failure which occurred may 29, 2021 and posting of another tree for removal as evidence of a public safety rest. this is order 205288 and we will hear from our first appellate , joshuaklipp . >> just let me know, i'll start a time when you're ready. >> welcome josh, we haven't seen you ina bit . >> that's true.

>> at the september 18 2019 hearing on these trees commissioner lazarus asked about one library tree department hasproposed to remove but later determined could be saved . here's that exchange. >> one thing i felt curious, there was one tree slated to be removed and as you said it sort of recovered. are there any lessons there aboutsome of these trees ? >> yes and number it's very difficult. we can't interview the trees to tell us that the obvious thing that comes tomind is 24th street . there's a lot of industries that went the way of the dodo andthey didn't come back . >> what mister book is saying

is take a look at those doomed trees around 24th street and as you know from having overseen that process this statement didn't age well. there are ways to interview trees and it's called being an arborist. it's tiresome we have tofind our own arborist to see what the city should be doing itself . in each instance are epic respected professional arborist came to the same conclusion: the city didn't do his work and there is another way and one final note we recently experienced one of the worst rainfall deluges since 1849, so serious that this team was managing evan hundred tree branch failures but that there was not a single failure around 24th treat for the main library so that commissioner lazarus's original question if there are questions to be learned from this removal. next i want topoint out the

environmental injustice of an area that averages four percent tree canopy . this indicates citywide the percentage of canopy distribution against the percentage of people of color in san francisco and it's not a good look but instead of working to increase our urban canopy it seems we can't take out trees fastenough . here's an unofficial chart i made up regarding upcoming removals in this area . we haven't even talked about civic center commons or one offs like thetesla tree or sf mta so-called sidewalk improvements in thetenderloin . i don't understand how we are humiliated by this failure of a new and vulnerable community . mass tree removals perpetuate environmental injustice in an area that suffers from poverty, addiction, mental illness, lack of access to basic services and in contrast here's an excerpt

from themunicipalspecialist certification study guide on the subject of trees . does it seem like any of these would be helpful to the people of the civic center ? why are we sitting here talking about another mass tree removal without minimally in the same breath praying for a robust forward-lookingfunded mitigation plan that supports this community? it is, founding . which brings me to my next point. community activists spent 18 months working with the library to come up with a plan that did some measure of relief that i know casey will talk more about that later but what i don't understand is how this time around public works seems to be suffering collective amnesia around any of that down to the type oftree proposed for replacement . i'd like to play a quick clip from the hearing in december 2019. >> kudos on proving yes, city and citizen constituencies can come together and reach a happy

ending. >> apparently not because despite casey's tremendous effort this time no one even bothered to reach out toher. it sends a real message about how much the leadership values community involvement . pulling back to a macro level i'd like to reiterate a few items. first in june of this year the san francisco budget and analysts office released a report that confirms how badly we are doing.the city's 10 year average of 2154 trees planted annually is less than half of the 5000 street trees that need to be planted annually toensure the city street tree population does not shrink . so while our planet slidesinto

a reversible climate crisis in san francisco we don't replace our trees 1 to 1 let alone conserving the damage of a small sampling . we don't lose sleepat the environmental injustice we perpetuate or the habitat we pull out because we would be funding mass tree plantings, not removals all over the city . i'dlike to finish on a personal note . there was a time when it seemed like i had an appeal in front of you every week . maybe it seems like i've been quiet lately. a year ago my wifeand i got a piece of land in the eastern sierra's . i love trees so much i wanted a few of my own no one could take down except mother nature. this pastjuly she did that in spectacular fashion also known as the sugar fire .i watched helplessly as this piece of mountainside all oflife that i've fallen in love with went up in flames. two weeks later my dad died . so i have been grieving a lot. but here's what i've learned. we cannot give up on our planet, onour city, on our

community . we cannot walk away from somethingbecause it's hard . we cannot do the bare minimum andsay we've done our job . these are tremendous gifts that were entrustedto our keeping . my dad taught me it is our responsibility to leave this world that are then we found it. i spent my time traveling back and forth to do wildfire remediation work . i know i am doing everything i can to make this world a better place and it's time our city leadership do the same . in conclusion i respectfully request the following. a continuance of this hearing for public works in the main library to meet with demonstration guardians as well as the people's congress to come up with a remediation land that includes an individualized assessment of each tree with the goal to save as many matured trees as possible and includes agreening initiative

that accounts for the needs of this community and ecosystem benefits that will be lost in any tree removal . >> thank you. we will now hear from betty traynor. >> mister klipp, you showed my picture and then closed it in awful fashion. just kidding. i remember that night. and we were really pleased tha , and i'm going to ask you to help mewith my senior memory. on that night , i remember walking out very pleased because the library and dpw and the community pledged a direction and pledged the

development of a plan based on the commissions mutual upset about the lack of a plan.the lack of direction. thepotential of tearing down a lot of trees. can you help me because i know you have a young brain . canyou help remind me and we have two new commissioners . what we hoped to achieve by having those three constituencies at least come together and to reach an accord and then aplan ? >> respectfully i'd like to refer that to casey as berry. he was one of the architects of that plan and i think she's

more qualified than i am to go into thedetails aroundsubstance of the procedure . >> when you get thereplease remember my question . thank you . >> we will now hear from miss traynor. >> thank you very much. my presentation will include some of these points and first one is that loss of mature trees and why this is such a major problem . mature and i emphasize that word to benefit theenvironment . all living things especially important in an urban environment .benefits include the reduction , provide shade for homes and office buildings andlibraries . reduce air pollution. pollutants from the atmosphere. it's especially important in a car congested city like the tenderloin where these are placed. one reason you see the new highway and neighborhoods, they

can also provide positive sounds of nature, birds chirping, etc. they protect us from uv radiation and absorb 90 percent of ultraviolet radiation and of course any city planner will tell you the importance of trees, how they improve the area, the appearance but also make people feel better. they improve human health. studies have found connections between exposure to trees and better mental and physical health. lowering blood pressure and hormones and theyprovide a place fora wildlife habitats . these are just a few of the things .and particularly we want to value evergreen trees like these ficus. we don't want to remove mature trees if that's not necessary. it takes a long time for mature

trees like these ficus to get 100 years and when established they can live a long time but taking a big tree out there's no guarantee that small trees will make it especially in these urban environments. these trees are evergreen, anotherreason they are so valuable . removing them is a loss to people wholive in the tenderloin . training and other tree maintenanceincluding improved tree basis at what's needed for urban trees in particular . whyhave the trees not been properly maintained ? dpw's own evaluation said most of the trees around the library should be fine with proper maintenance including improving the basis all get down to maintenance of our city trees as an independent arborist has toldus. it's a shame if all these trees

need to be removed if they were not better maintained . library management as referred to as agreed to keep these trees in place after the 2019 hearing. they saw the value to the community and library patrons and they wanted them maintained and as has always been spoken more trees are needed in san francisco over all plus there's such an unequal distribution with 13 percent of the city covered intrees san francisco has little treecover when compared to other major us cities . los angeles has a tree canopy of 21 percent . seattle and portland 30 percent but in san francisco not only are trees scarce they also are unequally distributed across the city and in the tenderloin where these trees are located trees cover two percent of the area approximately two percent compared to 13 percent and the

western addition and parts of pacific heights and 27 percent in glen park twin peaks so i ask that this public works order to remove the 17 ficus trees on groveland next to our main library be continued until there's a work comprehensive assessment made and the tenderloincommunity is included in any plan for the trees . the tenderloin are losing many trees so needed in this neighborhoodfor the reasons above and more . thank you very much . >> thank you. >> clerk: we will now hear from dj bowler, the appellant for 21 803. you have 20 minutes. if you call, did you call in? could you pressánine? wecan hear you . >> go ahead. >> after hearing what maggie traynor had to say, i was going to say something covering many

of the things she saidbut she said them so well . i'd like to do what i can and thank you forthe opportunity . and as was said, this isn't the first time a proposal to destroy all the trees along the sides of the main library has come before this board . it was continued the last time and i hope it will be continued again this time because the proposal to remove all these trees willy-nillyis entirely unacceptable . it's unacceptable for many reasons. some big, some small. we needthem for their beauty. for their protections . of the environment.for the birds to live in. for calling the wind tunnel. for cleaning the air.

just imagine how negative those stretches a sidewalk would be without these trees. it has been steadily growing there since the construction o this building 20+years ago . that's when they were planted . and there's many more years of life ahead of them. these trees need to be taken care of, not destroyed. it's been about five years is the responsibility for the care of san francisco's trees was turned over from the neighborhood, the neighboring property owner tothe care of this city . before that in this particular instance the library had been responsible for the care of these trees. and like topsy they just grew. little or nothing appears to

have been done to take care of them and keep them trimmed but they grew and then after being put in the citiescare they haven't been trimmed either . however for some reason very recently, the trees along heights street grew as did the tree on hyde street near market street was cut down very quickly and without normal attention. the trees ... why haven't the trees along grove street been trimmed? over all the state of the city's trees is problematic. we are shamefully behind los angeles in the care of our

urban trees. more removals than replacements. too many empty beds waiting for trees. dying young trees for lack of water. there's plenty of room for improvement and how the city is treating its trees. greater funding would probably help but regardless, it's most regrettable that trees are more often removed than replaced. the those way too few trees that are replanted arts water dependably so that bb trees are not an uncommon site standing forlornlyin a dry bed on our streets . is it lack of funding, lack of imagination? could the department encouraged neighborhood watering groups to pitch in, perhaps high schoolers would bedelighted to waterson trees in their neighborhood .

it seems like a lame way to deal with the library's trees to just chop them all down willy-nilly. why has this rash decision been allowed out of the gate to get here? what's going on? or perhaps i should ask what's not going on. the loss of these trees would be keenly felt by the general public. thousands of people normally use the library so the sidewalks on these two sides o the library are heavily used but not only by library users . major transit stops are at the corner of market there discouraging people who walk, mostly grove street up to the civic center plaza, the opera house, cityhall to work .

as the farmers market across hyde street. the general area has very few trees. it needs to keepall that it can . any trees planted instead of a removed tree would take years to compete with them for foliage, for nesting space with birds or as static relief from the unfortunately stark sides of the library and cleaning up the few that emanate from the head ofthe heavy traffic , waiting for themarket street to go on hyde street . except they are backed up waiting for the signal to change and exude their exhaust. so where would the birds who live inthese trees go ?

their songs restingin the evening and probably waking up in the morning to but i've never been there so i don't know if they followed through . these lovely songs would be anotherloss to the citizens . these considerations along with those brought by other appellants should serve as reason enough to respect these appeals and reject these removals as proposed. i continue the matter as last time so that the parties can work out a reasonable agreement on the best plans for all thes healthy and valuable trees . thank you very much. >> we will now hear from casey asberry, appellant for two 01 04. >> good evening commissioners. i am kasey asberry, a resident

of selma and i work in the open spaces and the expressive art throughout the neighborhood. i'll share my screen if you will bear with me a second. >> we see it. >> i was waiting to see it. >> great. so as was noted this is actually the second time that we talkedabout this matter . but before we go any further i want to acknowledge that we're talking about a part seated on the ancestral land of the

ramatush olone. you've heard we need to prioritize maintenance in our overall and our forestry regime and that removals in the neighborhood are felt. you've heard that in the light of this declared climate emergency felling of the trees doesn't even make sense for our city. and that we independently consulted arborists to see where we are with this . i want to talk about how the library growth is still a significant public green space whichis why we came together in the first place . almost 3 years ago now and that i want to also address commissioner swig's question and show the standing plan to

the board of appeals request to work together should be respected. that are working group could b redeployed to curate this very important space . we ask then as we do now how many trees does it take to make a book? trees are emblematic of our libraries and our learning and our city's greenness. this space, this significant public space lives in the hearts of more than just the neighborhood but it is emblematic of how the city knows how to go to meet challenges with grace and beauty. this was also emblematic of our working group effort. you see all the logos of our

working group members. nita boler was part of that group as well. the gardens did their best to be the conduit for community voices but we worked at the table with the public library facilities people and sat across from each other and chris brought in resources from the library. i could go into that plan in detail but i'll only do itif you really want to see it . i think it's more important to recognize that through that plan and process we came up with a real adaptive management strategy for how to make decisions together about this significant space. we ended our work sort of on a half step.

our final report in february 2020 before the city closed down had a rise at a recommendation that we would move none of the librarytrees unless they presented an active hazard . because the forests and every tree san francisco has looked at these trees and at that time they were thought to be viable with adequate maintenance. we wanted to commissioner swig and also commissioners that we haven't spoken before. we really had to come up with them as best as adaptive management reproach approach. it's a term of art that 4443 that deals with working with

community input and were thinking about what do we do with a city that is changing fast and tried to align ourselves with how our urban forestry guidelines go. but what'schanged since then ? we know that canopy loss has only accelerated. that the independent budget analysis that was released that josh referred to earlier from june 21, june of this year identified that this canopy loss is a lot to do with let's call itstructural misalignment . plans like ours might be able to help with that. meanwhile san francisco has than massive recognition that these neighborhoods that we're talking about are endemic to

environmentally inequitable with respect to fc 1000 and where working actively to rebuild our structures. reimagine our city processes so that things like this just don't happen. so that we look at resources like this and i don't just mean trees. i mean the people who care about them as resources that are nearest placeable for our city social fabric. we know that this is where we should be in terms of the tree canopyplanting . this is where we are. i apologize for the fuzziness of the graph but oh my gosh, what else haschanged ? trees in theneighborhood don't make it .

but prognosis has gone on record to say we need to replace it at a ratio of three or five because it's so hard to establish new trees . the maintenance regime has changed and that's why we saw a tree fail. >> thank you, that is time. >> we have a question from vice president swing. >> vicepresident: could you remind this body what was the agreement ? we couldn't go so far as to ask ms. rosenberg and i think it would take too much time. >> they were dismissed, administratively dismissed because the parties that order was canceled. apparently they were coming to some type of agreement. the board never made the

decision. >> i understand. but i want to know, we walked out that night and we had a continuance. and as part of that continuance there was an agreement just like we do with the housing complex. there was a direction that was given and accepted by all parties about what , about the intent to get together, do a plan and come back with, and this is where ifailed in my memory . and so i would like to know is i understandadministratively it was dismissed . that's convenient out give them the covid excuse. i'd like to know what we walked out with that night and what

the agreement was as part of the continuance. what was going to be studied, who's going to study it and what the goal that was provided by the initiative of the continuance, what the goal was? does anybody have that? do we have record of that, of convenience? >> i have it. i have a plan that was presented and approved when the commissioner said kudos, what they were talking about was having responded to the plan that we presented . and so i can eithergive you an overview or present the actual plan . >> vice president: help me with my memory please. i remember we like your plan. i remember that your plan was ... i don't think your plan wa

adopted and that we had a continuance .with the direction that the library, dp , your self and there may have been another party get together and around that plan, with an agreement and a resolution to move forward to re-present to the board of appeals for affirmation that would guide the process. am i off-base? >> your remembering accurately. we did go away and work and produced the plan and present it. it was approved. substantially approved on the record. the only thing that was missing from our plan was, and i can go back to that slide if you'd like is straight out of the agenda we presented in the final february 2020 meeting was

that we had not fully agreed on what species would be used as replacement species and are offset growth because we weren't going to take out any of the originaltrees . only we were going to start planting additional trees around the library and if any trees failed, determining what species they would be replaced with . if any did fail. but the plan was, and it was approved by the facility staff and we were in the process of starting to implement it in february 2020 we were going to budget with how do we support the community engagement part? so the species selection was allthat was missing . we just had not and so reminding you that the commission elected that night

on february 2020 to continue it one more time to arrive at that final detail and everything elsewas approved . >>. >> vice president: i have the voice of commissioner lazarus in the back of my mind saying don't get in the weeds so i'm going to promise myself that there is a method to my weeding us. i'dlike to ask just a point of order to the city attorney . for some direction. so on that date and thank you very much for stimulating my memory. on that date, we did a probe. a plan and much like we do with all plans that weapprove . that given this is a qualified

judicialbody this is the direction . this is what weexpect to be done .so what is the accountability and to whom or to who has to be held accountable when we come to an agreement, we givea direction. we go through all this hard work . the community goesthrough the hard work , other people go through the hard work to come to a decision and then we're abused because it's not followed through. what is our methodto hold accountable the past ? >> good evening again commissioner. i'm not clear whether the commission did rendering the decision on the prior case. i think julie said the cases werecontinued . but in any case, we haven't

heard from public works. i'm assuming they're going to present something under a changed circumstance. perhaps you should hear the entire case before re-examining the prior decisionhere . >> i'm just asking for direction. is that what we all put hard-working to and what we all were very diligent about creating a direction and there was resolution except for according to this testimony the treewasn't selected . how do we get this, the same trees, some of the same trees are involved in this case but

we've already adjudicated this except for picking out a tree . so what is all this hard work go and where does this report go and we all know what interrupted it most likely was and again, i'm going to give the covid excuse it's 22 months later or 20 months later. >> not to interrupt but i will. our director said we did not come to an official decision. if i can remember my brain as much foggy year than yours. the director from the library came up and it was kum bay ya and i think they werehoping we would be with the appellants two years later . he should hear the whole case first before we go backto 2019

. can wemove this forward a little bit ? >> like i said, i don't want to get into the week but it's important to bring this element out because as yourself and our other two commissioners are hearing this case, we have to have the context that we were in the football metaphor we were inthe red zone . and it was a clear direction and then life happened and so i guess i just want ... let's not reinvent the wheel when we're ready to put it on the car. i think all this stuff should beserviced and we should be ready to hear the testimony in the context . that's why i'm asking the question.

>> i have the nets from the hearing that was commenced you wishme to read that . >> that's great. >> it was a motion from president swig at the time. board voted to continue to allow the urban forestry to clarify the final details of the plan with regards to the replacement tree species planning of the project as well as provide a clear and concise overall project that can be understood by the public . >> for clarity no action was taken and parties agreed to cancel the order so the board did not take action and there's no binding precedent there. i understand whatyou're saying don't, the work was done . >> i don't want that lost, that's my point. i don't want to hold this proceeding of anyfurther . thank you for the indulgence and that was my question.

>> we are now moving onto, we will now from lancecarnes, 421 0835. welcome, you have seven minutes . >> you are on mute. >> i want to say that he just put a comment in the chat. i'm going to give one morning. anyone with acomment in the chat that'sinappropriate we are going to remove you from the hearing . it's fortechnical assistance only . mister lance carnes, are you there ? we can't hear you. let's see. we see you. now we hear you. >> thank you. can you start mytime again ?

>> let me fix my timer here. ready? okay. so my name is lance carnes and i put a copy of my slides on my website called save sf trees.org/library. the initial filing indicated this is going to be a heavy technical arborist type of hearing. i contacted a local arborist, roy like it, respected san francisco arborist to provide an independent report on the main library trees and he did this on a pro bono to benefit theneighborhood interest . he did just what mister rothbard did, he went down to the trees next to the library and gave hisassessment . so the thing that got us, are

you advancing my slides? >> i thought you referenced, i'll start them now. i can restart them. >> that's okay. next slide. so this is the one. the forward one, stop. there's that slide that's in between there. if you can slide back to that one. this is the preface to mister legates arborist report. he made a very careful provision. i'd be able to use it at the

board of appeals but only if it's provided in its entirety and he wanted the board to understandthat he produced this on a pro bono basis . and with to benefit the neighborhood interest . next slide please. this is why we're here. this is the tree that fell in front of the main library may 29 and crushed or damaged a truck. just going back a little bit, the previous time this tree was inspected was july 18th 2018 prior to the previous iteration of the library histories. at that time back in 2018, but was very diligent. and prior to the removal hearing june july and august of 2018 they inspected all the trees.